Scotty Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm not thick enough to know that's not what you said. But, of course I knew you were trying to slander an entire group of people - either Muslims or, perhaps, Afghan Muslims, specifically - with the actions of three people. I just wanted to draw it out of you. Seems to me we've seen plenty of evidence of the violence and lack of respect directed towards Afghan women. More than enough to asses how that culture feels about women anyway. And in today's paper I read where the local afghan community has ostracized the members who testified against these three at their trial. That bespeaks a common sentiment and is another indication of their twisted, backwards culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Some on the left must be upset about this verdict. What a stupid and insulting thing to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 You didn't say the word "Afghanistan"; nobody claimed you did. What you did do was make reference to a singular culture ("this culture [again, emphais mine]") and mentioned "Islamic families" in the context of the conviction of three Afghan Muslims for a so-called honour killing. Well, it's Muslim families which overwhelmingly commit honour killings. So such an assertion seems well-deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Unh ... no. Premeditated murder of women and girls by a sick and violent control creep isn't a "cause". Pretending he did it because of his "culture" is just blaming others for something heinous that he, and only he, orchestrated, completed and celebrated. And others applauded, or said they'd have done themselves. Recall his brother's testimony for example about what he'd do to his daughters if they dared to dishonor him --said in front of his daughters, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Reliable figures of the number of honor murders are hard to come by, Khalife said, but she pointed to a United Nations Population Fund estimate of 5,000 per year Who says that is reliable? I read one womens rights activist in Pakistan dismiss that figure as ludicrously conservative. She said there are probably more than that in Pakistan alone. But that the crime is heavily under-reported since it's only family who would generally report it, and since corrupt or 'understanding' police will generally look the other way and call the death an accident or natural causes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 That's like saying it's part of Italian culture, because the mafia routinely does honour killing. No, it's not. And the Mafia doesn't do 'honor' killing. It kills people to cover up its crimes or to persuade them to hand over cash. How many in the Italian community would willingly cheer on the Mafia? How many supporters would sympathize with their goals? Can the Mafia fairly easily recruit young men to give their lives blowing up their enemies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Well, it's Muslim families which overwhelmingly commit honour killings. So such an assertion seems well-deserved. Within the total number of Muslim families, only a miniscule fraction of a fraction commit honour killings. So, no, the pan-cultural smear isn't deserved at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Manny Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Within the total number of Muslim families, only a miniscule fraction of a fraction commit honour killings. So, no, the pan-cultural smear isn't deserved at all. But but but, look at all the headlines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 How many in the Italian community would willingly cheer on the Mafia? How many supporters would sympathize with their goals? Can the Mafia fairly easily recruit young men to give their lives blowing up their enemies? I don't know - you tell us. If there's some kind of formula for measuring the value of a culture, I don't know it - maybe you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Within the total number of Muslim families, only a miniscule fraction of a fraction commit honour killings. So, no, the pan-cultural smear isn't deserved at all. When an entire extended family can get together to hang a girl from a tree because she was raped, and tribal and village people shrug it off, and police have no interest in investigating, I can't dismiss it as merely an oddity involving only those who actually put the rope around her neck. There is a certain amount of collusion and acceptance of such behavior in Afghan, Pakistani and other cultures or it wouldn't happen. As evidence, it doesn't happen here - ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 I don't know - you tell us. If there's some kind of formula for measuring the value of a culture, I don't know it - maybe you do. It's like porn and art. I know it when I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 It's like porn and art. I know it when I see it. And like those things, nobody else is going to let you define it for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 When an entire extended family can get together to hang a girl from a tree because she was raped, and tribal and village people shrug it off, and police have no interest in investigating, I can't dismiss it as merely an oddity involving only those who actually put the rope around her neck. There is a certain amount of collusion and acceptance of such behavior in Afghan, Pakistani and other cultures or it wouldn't happen. As evidence, it doesn't happen here - ever. This kind of behaviour was acceptable into the 1960s in the South. Unless that stuff doesn't count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 And if you want Canadian examples, look no further than the Highway of Tears in BC or more particularly the case of Helen Betty Osborne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 When an entire extended family can get together to hang a girl from a tree because she was raped, and tribal and village people shrug it off, and police have no interest in investigating, I can't dismiss it as merely an oddity involving only those who actually put the rope around her neck. There is a certain amount of collusion and acceptance of such behavior in Afghan, Pakistani and other cultures or it wouldn't happen. Okay, I'll concede that honour killings don't necessarily happen in a vaccume. In some parts of the Muslim world, the majority will, at best, turn a blind eye to them. In other parts, however, they don't. As evidence, it doesn't happen here - ever. It just did. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 And like those things, nobody else is going to let you define it for them. You haven't tried to define it for yourself. You've put your hands against your ears and gone "Na-na-na-na-na" so you don't have to consider the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 This kind of behaviour was acceptable into the 1960s in the South. Unless that stuff doesn't count. No, it wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 And if you want Canadian examples, look no further than the Highway of Tears in BC or more particularly the case of Helen Betty Osborne. Are you suggesting their entire extended families got together to murder them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Okay, I'll concede that honour killings don't necessarily happen in a vaccume. In some parts of the Muslim world, the majority will, at best, turn a blind eye to them. In other parts, however, they don't. It just did. Again. By people who came here from another culture. Edited February 3, 2012 by Scotty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) No, it wasn't. Now you are a denier of history? It most certainly did and your passing it off as merely confirms more of your denier status.... ...hangings in the south... ...child porn 'aint so bad'... ...crime stats as per Stats Can... How is the soil down at the six foot level? Lynching, the practice of killing people by extrajudicial mob action, occurred in the United States chiefly from the late 18th century through the 1960s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States Edited February 3, 2012 by guyser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_bambino Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 By people who came here from another culture. Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 (edited) Now you are a denier of history? No, lynching was illegal and certainly not "acceptable" to the general public. Otherwise it would have been on TV! Lynchings in Canada, few that there were, did not make them "acceptable". Edited February 3, 2012 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 You haven't tried to define it for yourself. You've put your hands against your ears and gone "Na-na-na-na-na" so you don't have to consider the question. Are you telling me how to think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 This kind of behaviour was acceptable into the 1960s in the South. Unless that stuff doesn't count. And that was why the U.S. enacted civil rights laws during 1964 and 1965; to extend the jurisdiction of Federal Courts to those kinds of atrocities since local courts were turning a blind eye to them. The U.S. as a country does not tolerate that kind of behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 And that was why the U.S. enacted civil rights laws during 1964 and 1965; to extend the jurisdiction of Federal Courts to those kinds of atrocities since local courts were turning a blind eye to them. The U.S. as a country does not tolerate that kind of behavior. Now they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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