A question of confidence

[Higgly]

Steve now says that every motion introduced by the government will now be a motion of confidence and that the defeat of any government motion (including minor motions such as amendments) will be trated as a vote of non-confidence. Clearly Harper thinks he has nothing to fear from Dion even hough most polls show the parties neck and neck.

Harper has now announced his war on drugs legislation. For those of you who didn't know, marijuana is a narcotic (snicker). In any case, he is apparently going to try to bully through a lot of legislation that the opposition, and even many Canadians, might find troubling. Repeated polls have shown that a majority of Canadians feel marijuana is a red herring and the real problems are drugs like cocaine and heroin.

We will see if the opposition parties are able to stop Harper from ramming through legislation that they object to and that might be, well, perhaps un-Canadian.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Higgly

[margrace]

In a recent survey in the Globe and Mail we find that Canadians are not really interested in an election, but does Harper think we are all stupid. Perhaps we are in that we might resent an election brought on by the opposition parties. If we are this stupid then we need the government we get.

Or is Harper so arrogant that he thinks he will wind a majority?

[scribblet]

Harper is smart considering the liberal melt down in Quebec and Duceppe's reporting that he will be stepping down after the next election - he knows the chances of a fall election are becoming less likely. What better time to push his agenda.

In reading the press and listening to others, methinks they are smelling blood - perhaps "Dion road kill' . It seems that Dion no longer has control of his caucus, how many MPs can Dion count on - my guess - maybe 15 tops - the others would be more interested in preserving their seats and pensions than risking an election now.

"un-Canadian' my foot, here we go again, only Liberal policies and agenda's are 'Canadian' hummmm

[maldon_road]

Steve now says that every motion introduced by the government will now be a motion of confidence and that the defeat of any government motion (including minor motions such as amendments) will be trated as a vote of non-confidence. Clearly Harper thinks he has nothing to fear from Dion even hough most polls show the parties neck and neck.

Harper has now announced his war on drugs legislation. For those of you who didn't know, marijuana is a narcotic (snicker). In any case, he is apparently going to try to bully through a lot of legislation that the opposition, and even many Canadians, might find troubling. Repeated polls have shown that a majority of Canadians feel marijuana is a red herring and the real problems are drugs like cocaine and heroin.

We will see if the opposition parties are able to stop Harper from ramming through legislation that they object to and that might be, well, perhaps un-Canadian.

How do you ram through legislation in a minority Parliament?

If the legislation is as "un-Canadian" as you suggest won't the Opposition have an obligation to defeat it? If Harper threatens an election that will be a test for the other parties' testes.

[maldon_road]

Harper is smart considering the liberal melt down in Quebec and Duceppe's reporting that he will be stepping down after the next election - he knows the chances of a fall election are becoming less likely. What better time to push his agenda.

In reading the press and listening to others, methinks they are smelling blood - perhaps "Dion road kill' . It seems that Dion no longer has control of his caucus, how many MPs can Dion count on - my guess - maybe 15 tops - the others would be more interested in preserving their seats and pensions than risking an election now.

"un-Canadian' my foot, here we go again, only Liberal policies and agenda's are 'Canadian' hummmm

The bulk of the money, according to news reports, is to be directed to assisting addicts. So what will the the Libs and New Dems argue? That we should spend it all on this and nothing at all going after drug dealers?

[scribblet]

The bulk of the money, according to news reports, is to be directed to assisting addicts. So what will the the Libs and New Dems argue? That we should spend it all on this and nothing at all going after drug dealers?

Maybe - apparantly it's 'un-Canadian' to go after drug dealers. Does this mean that Liberals are 'potheads'

[Michael Bluth]

How do you ram through legislation in a minority Parliament?

If the legislation is as "un-Canadian" as you suggest won't the Opposition have an obligation to defeat it? If Harper threatens an election that will be a test for the other parties' testes.

I think the idea is that anything other than a Liberal Government is "un-Canadian".

It's sad but many, many Liberal supporters feel that way. Unfortunately for them it is very unlikely a fall/winter election will end up with a Liberal goverment. But it is a good thing for all us "un-Canadian" Canadians.

[Fortunata]

Steve should remember that since almost two-thirds of the country did not vote for him he still needs to listen to that portion of the population through those votes - the opposition. Ramming his agenda through without taking into consideration negotiating with the other parties is somewhat being a dictator; governing for the few.

[Michael Bluth]

Ramming his agenda through without taking into consideration negotiating with the other parties is somewhat being a dictator; governing for the few.

He can't ram anything through and isn't trying to. This strategy is the epitome of democracy.

He is presenting his new priorities to the House of Commons en masse and giving the opposition a simple choice.

Here is the package. If you agree pass it and we'll spend the next year implementing it. If not vote the Government down and we'll let the people decide on its merits. What could be more democratic than that?

[scribblet]

That's a hoot suggesting that the tories can 'ram' any legislation through with a minority gov't.

[Fortunata]

He can't ram anything through and isn't trying to. This strategy is the epitome of democracy.

He is presenting his new priorities to the House of Commons en masse and giving the opposition a simple choice.

Here is the package. If you agree pass it and we'll spend the next year implementing it. If not vote the Government down and we'll let the people decide on its merits. What could be more democratic than that?

A minority government is supposed to negotiate. Compromise. It's what Canadians expect from a minority and why they seem to be happier with a minority. That's why Steve's numbers aren't in majority territory. It's up to this "new" government to make parliament work and it can't be done dictatorially.

[August1991]

Harper has no choice. The Liberals would have voted in favour of the Throne Speech and then voted against all measures in the Throne Speech.

Anyway, Harper is being far more reasonable than the Liberals ever would have been.

[Fortunata]

Harper has no choice. The Liberals would have voted in favour of the Throne Speech and then voted against all measures in the Throne Speech.

Anyway, Harper is being far more reasonable than the Liberals ever would have been.

I'm sure you can prove that the Libs would have voted against all the measures? Did they in the last parliamentary session?

As far as Harper being reasonable, that is a matter of opinion.

[Michael Bluth]

A minority government is supposed to negotiate. Compromise. It's what Canadians expect from a minority and why they seem to be happier with a minority. That's why Steve's numbers aren't in majority territory. It's up to this "new" government to make parliament work and it can't be done dictatorially.

Ramming through the Pablo Rodriquez's PMB on Kyoto was an example of compromise?

It's up to all parties to make Parliament work. The NDP and Bloc have decided it isn't. The Conservatives have stated the conditions upon which they will prolong this government.

If the Liberals agree to these terms great. If not vote the Government down. The power is in their hands.

[jennie]

I'm sure you can prove that the Libs would have voted against all the measures? Did they in the last parliamentary session?

As far as Harper being reasonable, that is a matter of opinion.

Harper will put things in the throne speech to force an election, but he never would be able to get those things through parliament anyway without collaboration and support. Before or after an election makes no difference, so why bother with the expense of an election nobody wants? Harper should give the opposition parties a chance to respond and collaborate, because that is what will eventually have to happen anyway.

[Michael Bluth]

Harper should give the opposition parties a chance to respond and collaborate, because that is what will eventually have to happen anyway.

The NDP, Liberals and Bloc have all publicly stated they aren't interested in collaboration. They later two set out a bottom-line of conditions. None of which are acceptable to Harper.

Chantal Hebert said it best today.

As opportunistic as it may be, there is a fundamental logic to Prime Minister Stephen Harper's election ultimatum to the opposition parties. It makes little sense for his Conservative government to survive a vote on its agenda later this month only to then have its core policies defeated on a piecemeal basis over the two remaining years in the life of the minority Parliament.

That amounts to saying that Canadians would be better served by a paralyzed government and a prolonged parliamentary blockade than by an inconvenient return trip to the polls. On the face of it, that is an unsustainable proposition.

Just as unsustainable is the notion that the Prime Minister could accept some of the key non-negotiable conditions put forward by the NDP and the Bloc Québécois. No responsible government could accept them without airing them in a general election.

So it's up to Stephane Dion. If he abstains from the vote he looks weaker than he does now, if that's possible. If he abstains and then he tries to play tough we have a mid-winter election. If he goes to the polls now he surely loses. Which will he choose?

[Fortunata]

So it's up to Stephane Dion. If he abstains from the vote he looks weaker than he does now, if that's possible. If he abstains and then he tries to play tough we have a mid-winter election. If he goes to the polls now he surely loses. Which will he choose?

It's not a weakness if the Libs abstain; only to you and, of course, the msm will make it out to be because they like to grab something and never let go. To buy in carte blanche would mean they give the Harpercons freedom to do whatever they want (as in majority), to vote against would mean the Libs themselves are unwilling to be flexible and give each item due consideration that surely each item deserves. Steve is in a minority government. Minorities mean working together not giving ultimatums. Each party is wrong to give an ultimatum. Each party should be willing to sit down and work out what will fit best with no one party dictating to the masses. It's called democracy. Anything less than that is something else.

[Michael Bluth]

It's not a weakness if the Libs abstain; only to you and, of course, the msm will make it out to be because they like to grab something and never let go. To buy in carte blanche would mean they give the Harpercons freedom to do whatever they want (as in majority), to vote against would mean the Libs themselves are unwilling to be flexible and give each item due consideration that surely each item deserves. Steve is in a minority government. Minorities mean working together not giving ultimatums.

Hmm, let's talk about working together.

This board has rules about respectful language. "Steve" might be borderline, but "Harpercon" is a clear violation of the rules.

Working together and compromise is a matter of respect. You managed to maintain a base level of respect for the first few posts of the day, but have abandoned all pretext with this one.

So you want the Conservatives to work together, yet won't use basic respectful language?

Quite like the approach of the Liberals in the House of Commons. Symbolic of why the Conservatives are approaching the upcoming Speech from the Throne in the way that they are. Liberals braying about working collaboratively but unable to do so in a respectful manner. This minority government has been around long enough.

If Liberal supporters want the Conservatives to work with the Liberals respectful perhaps they should quit using terms like Steve, dictatorship and Harpercon.

You win Fortunata.

I'm not willing to take part in a Rabble-Lethbridge forum. Good luck!

Edited October 5, 2007 by Michael Bluth

[ScottSA]

A minority government is supposed to negotiate. Compromise. It's what Canadians expect from a minority and why they seem to be happier with a minority. That's why Steve's numbers aren't in majority territory. It's up to this "new" government to make parliament work and it can't be done dictatorially.

This is simply not true. In a minority government it behooves the government to compromise if it wants to stay out of elections, but nowhere is there a job description claiming the government must compromise. Why don't the opposition parties compromise instead?

[Higgly]

To those of you who wondered how Steve might ram through legislation with a minority government... The point is that he is counting on the opposition to be more afraid of an election than voting in favour of his legislation.

[Michael Bluth]

To those of you who wondered how Steve might ram through legislation with a minority government... The point is that he is counting on the opposition to be more afraid of an election than voting in favour of his legislation.

It would be interesting to see what happens if the Speech passes.

Every bill there would be predictions of an election. Every bill would be a confidence matter. Every bill would be dramatic with one party finding a reason to support the Government and the Conservatives would last until the fall of '09.

On top of that the knives would really come out for Stephane.

[maldon_road]

To those of you who wondered how Steve might ram through legislation with a minority government... The point is that he is counting on the opposition to be more afraid of an election than voting in favour of his legislation.

Meaning the Liberals? You are probably right. The Libs will fight tooth and nail to not have to expose Dion to an election campaign. At times Dion is unintelligible in English. Imagine him against Harper in a debate.

[Higgly]

Meaning the Liberals? You are probably right. The Libs will fight tooth and nail to not have to expose Dion to an election campaign. At times Dion is unintelligible in English. Imagine him against Harper in a debate.

After the drubbing he took in the by-elections, he is not looking good. I think he is also hobbled by being a member of Chretien's cabinet. Would be the same thing if a member of Mike Harris' cabinet were running for Premier of Ontario. Not a chance.

[gc1765]

Here is the package. If you agree pass it and we'll spend the next year implementing it. If not vote the Government down and we'll let the people decide on its merits. What could be more democratic than that?

Nothing...if you don't mind having elections every couple of months.

If he goes to the polls now he surely loses. Which will he choose?

Surely loses? I don't know about that, the Liberals and CPC are pretty close in the polls.

[old_bold&cold]

Yes the polls have them both close, but if I was harper i would be doing everything I could to have the polls look equal. Does anyone seriously think that Dion in an election campaign would grow his support or would he likely lose support like a rock does depth when dropped in the lake. Does the NDP have anything to offer the voters that would change their minds in any of this. The Bloc has no where to go but down and they can not count on their PQ brothers to help them out. Duceppe is retiring after this election and the party really does not have an obvious leadership choice in sight that would come close to Duceppes popularity. The greens well they are green.

People should by now have seen that Harper has engineered all of this and yes there will be more candy and tidbits to be anounced before the election call. I said many time large tax cuts will be in there, and money for cities and infastructure repairs etc. Mass transit and Hybrid auto rebates on taxes and many more. When Harper is thru, anyone forcing an election will be making Harper very happy. The face of Quebec will change big time and it will only favour the CPC. Since it is pretty obvious that the only gains will be made by the CPC, and most people have said this, then the only one who should be happy with an election call will be Harper. I think the voters would gladly want to see this same minority government keep going, but they will give Harper his majority before they would give any other party a minority. But hell only 9 more days till we can see just what is in that throne speech. So then we can all be better informed at where things will turn.