Troops fire indiscriminately on afghan civilians

[trex]

I saw everything," said Reuters correspondent Noor Mohammad Sherzai. "I saw the suicide bomb attack ... I saw the fire brigade vehicle rushing to the area at top speed, somehow its brakes failed and hit one police vehicle and coalition vehicles, then the Americans started firing at the people and everyone lay flat on the ground and then fled the area."

Sherzai said a number of people had been wounded in the attack, but he did not know how many. "I ran away to save my own life."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21003513/

-----------------

there is your liberty

[Army Guy]

I think these here are better examples on liberty.

Afgan

Afgan

Afgan

[Keepitsimple]

I saw everything," said Reuters correspondent Noor Mohammad Sherzai. "I saw the suicide bomb attack ... I saw the fire brigade vehicle rushing to the area at top speed, somehow its brakes failed and hit one police vehicle and coalition vehicles, then the Americans started firing at the people and everyone lay flat on the ground and then fled the area."

Sherzai said a number of people had been wounded in the attack, but he did not know how many. "I ran away to save my own life."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21003513/

-----------------

there is your liberty

You picked a very poor story to stress your dislike for NATO and what we are trying to do to help Afghanistan. While this report is from a single, excitable correspondent, I do not see the word "indiscriminately" used in the article. If three suicide bombers attacked you and then a fire truck rammed into you, do you not think that there would be a connection? And maybe when the dust settles, we'll find out that there was. Sounds like a very scary series of events. Lets hope the end result wasn't too bad. War is a dirty thing - especially when you have homicide bombers who have no respect for any human life, including their own.

[trex]

You picked a very poor story to stress your dislike for NATO and what we are trying to do to help Afghanistan. While this report is from a single, excitable correspondent, I do not see the word "indiscriminately" used in the article. If three suicide bombers attacked you and then a fire truck rammed into you, do you not think that there would be a connection? And maybe when the dust settles, we'll find out that there was. Sounds like a very scary series of events. Lets hope the end result wasn't too bad. War is a dirty thing - especially when you have homicide bombers who have no respect for any human life, including their own.

war is not a dirty thing, war is an insane thing. and we the general public have had a veil pulled over our eyes. so while we yawn and stretch and have a nice morning, we should also know about what our representatives are doing in afghanistan... and not just the sun-shiney stories issued from the DOD, or by some career minded generals.

there are many ways to solve a problem... 9 billion dollars and counting can buy a lot of hearts and minds, or it can make certain corporations very wealthy at the expense of the powerless... so while we enjoy our mass-media marketed products and news, someone should try to wake the public to the ugly reality of war, which is, fear terror, and violence. those that our leaders shrug off as mere co-lateral damage, cry out from their graves to be answered, for justice. but they are all canon fodder, grease for the treads of our tanks,

while politicians and business men shake hands and count their coins

i bet mr. harper had a nice comfortable lunch yesterday, he smiled for the camera a few times

[ScottSA]

war is not a dirty thing, war is an insane thing. and we the general public have had a veil pulled over our eyes. so while we yawn and stretch and have a nice morning, we should also know about what our representatives are doing in afghanistan... and not just the sun-shiney stories issued from the DOD, or by some career minded generals.

there are many ways to solve a problem... 9 billion dollars and counting can buy a lot of hearts and minds, or it can make certain corporations very wealthy at the expense of the powerless... so while we enjoy our mass-media marketed products and news, someone should try to wake the public to the ugly reality of war, which is, fear terror, and violence. those that our leaders shrug off as mere co-lateral damage, cry out from their graves to be answered, for justice. but they are all canon fodder, grease for the treads of our tanks,

while politicians and business men shake hands and count their coins

i bet mr. harper had a nice comfortable lunch yesterday, he smiled for the camera a few times

Oy vey...smoke another doob, man, and let the grownups run the world.

[trex]

Oy vey...smoke another doob, man, and let the grownups run the world.

seems you are blowing the smoke here, not me, try to obfuscate the truth with your sad attempt at ridicule. you must have a very small head to fit so well up your ass

[M.Dancer]

You would think that if they were firng indiscriminately (even though there's no mention or even proof in the article) more than two wouold be carried away by ambulance. And seeing that at least one terrorist was shot dead by troops, that in itself suggests a very discriminating type of firing.

[Army Guy]

TBud:

war is not a dirty thing, war is an insane thing

I like to know just how it is you know anything about war, you read a few books, saw a few pictures....Tell us what makes you such a authoritarian on the topic. Or are you just talking out your ass.

so while we enjoy our mass-media marketed products and news, someone should try to wake the public to the ugly reality of war, which is, fear terror, and violence.

Now we are guilty of enjoying our current freedoms ,our mass marketed products, and our news...That someone is you right, this job does it come with a cape, maybe a pair of tights. where did you apply...

What would you know of war ? i've asked you this many times to state your credentials but you have refused...becuase upto now your just that some guy dress in a cape and tights trying to make a few friends "sorry you don't do that" make friends that is ...so really all your doing is wasting band width trolling.....

[old_bold&cold]

It seems that Tbud is just another angry person who will try to flood the forums with his hate for war and the fact that he is unable to change the world just by his words. He will spout off for a while and then just fade away. We have seen his type before and they are just really sad by their own inability's to contribute anything of value to any decent subject.

[Army Guy]

Does that mean we can't keep him...come on one more chance, even a die hard NDP er deserves that.

[trex]

It seems that Tbud is just another angry person who will try to flood the forums with his hate for war and the fact that he is unable to change the world just by his words. He will spout off for a while and then just fade away. We have seen his type before and they are just really sad by their own inability's to contribute anything of value to any decent subject.

i see, those who hate war are the violent and angry ones, those who allow war are not. war is peace... congratulations you seem well indoctrinated.

i am not angry, by far... whats to be angry?

as for not contributing anything of value to this subject, you have also done well in that, old_bold&cold. i havent heard much reasonable debate, few comments that are on the topic or not purely intended to defame my character, unknown as it may be. but that is to be expected. as is my defense against personal attacks

->"we" have seen his type before

yes you are well indoctrinated. if you think i will join the group and fit in you are out of your head.

respond to me in a reasonable way, on the topic and i will be more than happy to do likewise.

[Army Guy]

respond to me in a reasonable way, on the topic and i will be more than happy to do likewise.

You mean like your introductory post, attacking our forum and the people in it and now you want us to be reasonable....Something must be in my drink....anyone else having the same problem...

[trex]

You mean like your introductory post, attacking our forum and the people in it and now you want us to be reasonable....Something must be in my drink....anyone else having the same problem...

"our forum"

let me tell you something, i know what kind of snakes are in these forums. i can read, johnny. and any loud mouth college brat who thinks war is funny, or people of different culture are all fools, deserves whats coming to them. serious debate? you people are a joke

still waiting, mr. ambassador

[trex]

Something must be in my drink..

yes, i came here today to piss in your cornflakes

[M.Dancer]

Are we allowed to make book here? I want to start a "turf accountancy firm"

Shall we start the odds at 2 to 1 for 50 post?

5 to 1 at 30 posts?

10 to 1 at 100 posts?

[trex]

Are we allowed to make book here? I want to start a "turf accountancy firm"

Shall we start the odds at 2 to 1 for 50 post?

5 to 1 at 30 posts?

10 to 1 at 100 posts?

are you having an issue with numbers today?

i see you have 4504 posts. i hope at least some of them are better than that one. or, cheese. or, west side story, as much as i admire leonard bernstein. but the real joke, is people like you.

----

see how easy it is for me to get one more? its that simple. why does it even matter to you

[trex]

Are we allowed to make book here? I want to start a "turf accountancy firm"

Shall we start the odds at 2 to 1 for 50 post?

5 to 1 at 30 posts?

10 to 1 at 100 posts?

see here is another one

[betsy]

Someboddddyyyy is spending tooo much time in the sun.....and sniffing in the popppppy fields.

You know what guys, once in a while, we need a comic relief.

[Moxie]

Tbud quoted: I saw everything," said Reuters correspondent Noor Mohammad Sherzai. "I saw the suicide bomb attack ... I saw the fire brigade vehicle rushing to the area at top speed, somehow its brakes failed and hit one police vehicle and coalition vehicles, then the Americans started firing at the people and everyone lay flat on the ground and then fled the area."

Sherzai said a number of people had been wounded in the attack, but he did not know how many. "I ran away to save my own life."

What would you have the military do? Sit quietly and safely in their tanks while civies get blown to bits? No one knows during a suicide attack how many terrorists there are or how many bombs could go off, civies die during battle that is the nature of war. Is it sad? Yes, but terrorist don't care who they kill but military members do care but sometimes in the heat of battle innocents die.

Of course the peaceniks lament from the saftey of their puter chairs, the only thing that is dangerous in their lives is crossing the road to attend a peace rally. It's easy to lament when you give nothing back to your country but protest marches and banners.

[trex]

No one knows during a suicide attack how many terrorists there are or how many bombs could go off, civies die during battle that is the nature of war. Is it sad? Yes, but terrorist don't care who they kill but military members do care but sometimes in the heat of battle innocents die.

i agree but i think you missed the point. there are some roads you can go down, which you cant come back again, and war is such a thing. irreversable error. once begun, all these things are just the natural consequences.

but to step back from the immediate, horrific nature of the war and consider, the necessity of the mission. what was the intended outcome. was every option exhausted before rushing to war? was anything else even attempted before rushing to war.

or was it a reaction to appease the angry american government, mad at us for opting out of their war in iraq?

"Of course the peaceniks lament from the saftey of their puter chairs, the only thing that is dangerous in their lives is crossing the road to attend a peace rally. It's easy to lament when you give nothing back to your country but protest marches and banners."

those are also important things for people to do to keep the leaders honest. all is not as black and white as they explain to us. the reason for the war has changed a few times now, and they are beginning to make noises about continuing beyond the end of the current "operations".

learn what the real definition of fascism is

then you'll understand, do not trust government in bed with the corporations.

"corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.”

– Abraham Lincoln

today democracy is only about choosing one of the preferred CEO

if a people chooses a different path than that which is intended by empire, their democracy is null and void.

[Army Guy]

Thud:

"our forum"

let me tell you something, i know what kind of snakes are in these forums. i can read, johnny. and any loud mouth college brat who thinks war is funny, or people of different culture are all fools, deserves whats coming to them. serious debate? you people are a joke

still waiting, mr. ambassador

Yes i did say our forum, if the forum is full of snakes why stay ? or is it because your the forum police, sent here to rout out all us cons,

yes, i came here today to piss in your cornflakes

Piss away, but why us , why this forum , got a better forum ?

[Topaz]

I was over on Arthur Kent's website and he reported about women and children being killed by US bombs because the Taliban was in the village but fled before the bombs were dropped. The only answer the military can give is. this is war!! The US has many many times killed innocent people in Afghanistan and Iraq and I wouldn't want to be fighting next to them because they can't shoot straight. Its always Canadians or citizens of the country getting killed! Now the Afghanis people are wagering war to the Canadian military for what the US military did by killing Afghanis people. If we lose the confidence of the people we better pack up and come home because we WILL lose more of our military by the Taliban and the Afghanis and turn into another mess like Iraq, which can'r be won by the military alone!

[trex]

I was over on Arthur Kent's website and he reported about women and children being killed by US bombs because the Taliban was in the village but fled before the bombs were dropped. The only answer the military can give is. this is war!! The US has many many times killed innocent people in Afghanistan and Iraq and I wouldn't want to be fighting next to them because they can't shoot straight. Its always Canadians or citizens of the country getting killed! Now the Afghanis people are wagering war to the Canadian military for what the US military did by killing Afghanis people. If we lose the confidence of the people we better pack up and come home because we WILL lose more of our military by the Taliban and the Afghanis and turn into another mess like Iraq, which can'r be won by the military alone!

the war of hearts and minds may already be lost. if not, it wont be long, unless we change tactics.

the fact that a soldier can panic and just shoot anyone in the vicinity is certainly nothing new. the military can only cover it up, or offer the family US $2500 dollars as a tragic "compensation" payment.

it may not be news to some, but it still mustn't be ignored. the fact that it was not even canadians, does not matter. We are part of the coalition, we come to "fight", not rebuild. we cannot rebuild, they wont let it happen. and now they will never be eliminated, because for every person killed by colateral damage, it inspires a dozen to become taliban supporters in revenge. the vicious cycle

when rome fell, it was in part because of the inability of the military to adopt to the methods of the barbarians, all they could do was be a disciplined army and stomp on whole peoples and villages.

when the enemy looks like just anybody, you start to kill just anybody.

[jennie]

There was a suicide bomb. Unnerving, but that's war. Then there was a fire truck coming toward them and hit one of their vehicles.

Why would you be shooting?

You should be running in case it's another bomb!

It is regrettable that wars are fought among civilians now.

But is that what they are taught ... If someone attacks, shoot at everybody?

They must have a plan for such events. Is that it?

Edited September 27, 2007 by jennie

[trex]

There was a suicide bomb. Unnerving, but that's war. Then there was a fire truck coming toward them and hit one of their vehicles.

Why would you be shooting?

You should be running in case it's another bomb!

It is regrettable that wars are fought among civilians now.

But is that what they are taught ... If someone attacks, shoot at everybody?

They must have a plan for such events. Is that it?

ifi were unfortunate enough to be there, i might be shooting, yes. who knows

i dont think they are taught this, maybe they panic

see the problem is, war is insidious. in many wars both sides are the loser.

except for big corporations