old_bold&cold Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 I disagree that peple would be allowed to grow there own pot if we regulate it and tax it. Much in the same way you can not make your own hard liquor, is the way Pot would be looked at. If it were to go the legal but regualated route, there would be licensing and many other tupes pf regualtions that would follow it and its procduction. There would be no grow your own in any of this. That is why I said pot will be $50.00 / gram. Much the same way liquor and even tobacco, are taxed to 3-4 times their value, the same thing would have to jappen with pot. To think that the govvernment would simply just legalize it and allow just anyone to grow there own pot, is not very realistic. Even as we move more and more towards otlawing tobacco, it will probably just get taxed into extinction before the outlawing ever takes place. Pot will be treated like hard liquor, and there will be strict control on who gets licenses to grow it and just what level of THC it will be allowed to have. then it will be taxed and judging by the taxes we have on liquor and tobacco, the tax will be sevral times what the price is going for now. You do yourself a diservice by not trying to see that, and while your approach is head and shoulders over Shavluk and his cronies, it still is more pie in the sky type thinking on your part. You would like to think thatpot is like tobacco, and it is not. It is a drug and it is not even what we would see as a softdrug, as it has affects that far out weigh the affects of a beer ot two, or a cigarette or two. Basically one joint causes you to be impaired as much as being drunk does. There doe s not seem to be a safe level for pot, that does not impair hand eye co-ordination, or reaction times. This is why it will be treated more like hard liquor then it will be like tobacco. Most of the public will probably see it this way, if legalization + regulation and taxation, are ever achieved. That would be a goal that might get passed some time much later in life. But for now and for quite some time to come, pot will not ever be an issue that will command much attention for the voters. It is a tiny side issue at its very best. Hopefully unlike Shavluk, you will be able to see this more clearly, and understand that what I have said is much more likely to happen then plain outright legalization of drugs period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) Being anti pot is doing nothing and supporting the current laws which put people like me in jail. Over half the nation wants pot legal and thus I gain sympathy from people, others will join me to protest via hunger strike and others will support by showing the government how outraged they are.Fact is the government can't touch us unless we do something illegal, they also won't let a bunch of people simply die of starvation either. They are really only left with one solution that does not make them look bad. Everyone who takes part in a hunger strike will be viewed as counter culture heroes as they will play a key role in showing the nation that a few of us can make a difference. Ok, here is my issue with the pot activist agenda. ps: I still smoke it from time to time, so please refrain from calling me anti-pot. First, you cannot be thrown in Jail for simple posession for personal amounts. that is a fact. second, and this is funny, you people view yourselves as "counter culture heroes"? hahahaha that IS pathetic. third, you hope to gain sympathy? for what? For wanting to be able to smoke a bong in a coffee house in front of 100 police officers? Do you realize how smug and self interested you are being? There are REAL issues out there. This is NOT one of them. See, you are asking the government to take it's eye off of REAL issues that are pressing and are life and death for the freedom for you to get high in public? Do you see how pathetic and self righteous that is? Most people don't give a fig and for good reason. Fourth - Pot is NOT "Not harmful at all" There are harms and risks to smoking pot. While small and not that HUGE, there IS harm to smoking pot. Just like there is to smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol. There are health benefits to drinking alcohol as well. So you cannot say that and expect people to take you seriously. Fifth, a hunger strike? come on. And you think the government will have 'no choice'? are you serious? There are people on hunger strikes ALL THE TIME. Almost without exception they can and ARE completely ignored. I admire your passion. Why not direct it towards bettering veterans health care? Why not have a unger strike for breast cancer? Do you see where I am going here? Make a difference on a real issue. this is not one of them. Edited October 31, 2007 by White Doors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavluk Posted October 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) The Now Done Party have no cannabis policy !! PERIOD !! THIS PERSON IS LYING!!! I am one of the 3 original directors of endprohibition.ca SO I KNOW THE REAL FACTS !! HER QUOTE! (should proof read next time as I think she meant to say she wasn't a member , hahha) *********QUOTE**** Actually I'm a CC member although I do read the mag and I personally know Emery... ******* end quote Well that says it all. Pure bullshit all that he/she says ,,,and she is only here to try to dis me and confuse you cannabis using people. His/her buddy is dana larsen. One of my old team who back stabbed me for an uncontested ndp nomination. Sad sack he is and a traitor. He , kirk and I started endprohibition.ca which again you just lied about and say that it has some thing to do with the ndp ,,which it doesn't!! IT NEVER HAS NOR HAS IT BEEN LINKED TO THE Now Done Party !! I wont bother responding to liars as I have said and will provide facts for the mods here to stop your poor game. Here is why this sycophant (probably dana or one of mark's current teenage girl friends ,jody maybe hahha) is here .(someone sent NUDE PICTURES of her to me and she doesnt like that ) hahhaha danal's Quote about my winning a GREEN NOMINATION **** My experience with John is that he is a arrogant bully who likes to intimidate and threaten others in order to get his way. He has repeatedly sent threatening emails to myself and many other people in the marijuana movement. He has gotten himself repeatedly banned from the CC forums, the Rabble forums and the enMasse forums, because of his abusive posts and name-calling. He uses divisive language, calling everyone who doesn't vote Green a "traitor to the pot movement." He takes any disagreements very personally and lashes out at people who disagree with his tactics. So while I am glad that the Green Party is taking on pro-pot people as their candidates, frankly I don't see John Shavluk as a big help to the pot movement. If I lived in Newton - North Delta, I'd be working and voting for NDP candidate Nancy Clegg. The NDP came in a very close second to the Liberals in the last election, and has seen the biggest growth of support of any of the main three parties. Clegg is not a "marijuana activist," but she clearly supports the NDP's non-punitive approach to drug policy, and the last time Layton was in her riding he made a speech calling for a rules-based approach to marijuana policy as the best way to deal with the problems caused by illegal grow-ops. *********end quote This is from the link below. http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/u...;gonew=1#UNREAD _______________________________________________________________________ And this is why he is so worried about what I am doing and if I will be having dana removed as a candidate for the ndp when the writ drops. PLEASE READ THIS IF YOU OR ANYONE YOU KNOW HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH CANNABIS ,PLEASE !!! http://forums.cannabisculture.com/forums/u...;gonew=1#UNREAD Now with over 2 thousand views!! As cannabis Canadians turn away from the ndp in droves. I stand by my word and AGAIN !! ASK !! where the Now Done Party ""LEGALIZE CANNABIS""" POLICY IS !!!!! The ndp do not have one ,PERIOD !! This person is a LIAR ! If LIES are acceptable here I would ask the mods to just let me know? The Now Done Party have no such Policy. I KNOW!! I raised the necessary cannabis policy myself and had it approved by 83% in my riding only to have layton play games again and lie to senior ndp members. This guy dana, as I say didn't have the GUTS to get a resolution himself. hahhaha As I have said I will be hoping to having him removed as a Now Done Party candidate with the information soon to be released !! MODS PLEASE BE AWARE , I HAVE A TROLL ON ME HERE SPREADING LIES !! To who ever you are I will now send something out right now to show dana I mean business along with this thread so that some day he can thank you personally for causing more of what you just did, Jody? I hope he thanks you because he certainly wont be thanking me!!! Silly lying sycophants who think by doing dirty ,dirty work with lies that I will not just address dana with it and reward him for it!!! THANK YOU for making me now do this !!!hahhahaha Here is the beginning of that link above,,,, ************OK Mr sell-out i am here,,,, shavluk here!!!!! lets hear your drivel now,,dana Mr Malen is sitting here , right now and he wants to help you clear things up dana remember him? his wife was on the ndp executive(also in Quebec) and he is the one who asked you why you wouldn't stand up for endprohibition.ca and the cannabis culture within the ndp and call Jeff Fox on his lies he still has his, mine and your emails you started this by your rude comments about me and my GREEN NOMINATION and i will not back down from your childish ego the simple facts are ,, there is no federal ndp policy to deal with the cannabis issue within the federal ndp and if you all don't believe me ,, show them the policy dana maybe if you weren't out partying while i worked the convention delegates you would have known the real story all the ndp will say is they agree with Canada's chiefs of police association calling for a look at ,,YES,, 'LOOK" at decriminalization dana you sold me out for an uncontested nomination in an un-win-able riding,,plain and simple you gave me your word you would go to speak to Jeff fox(BC ndp pres.)on my behalf ,with my permission and then you and i would put out a press release as we attacked their hypocrisy and gained attention to our plight i awoke the next morning to your emails spread every where eluding to some bullshit cocaine story and how you were being allowed to be a ndp candidate so they were not against cannabis people,,,didn't you? simple yes or no dana you know dam well Nancy clegg left my riding and has in fact been in kirks riding for months and tried,,, because of my work with her here to help kirk,, i was her only opponent within the ndp for 3 and a half years what a liar you are ,dana its the delta police board member teresa townsley quickly recruited days before she joined the ndp and won uncontested just like you that took over after your stabbing all of you better realize that what i am in fact doing is getting layton to find his balls and if he ever says anything it will be because of mine and outsiders efforts and pushing at the Quebec city convention ,,dana wasn't even at most political social functions ,,wouldn't run for office and slept through my election campaign ,,AND vote ,,for our rights he sadly,, couldn't even bring himself to use the beautiful business cards my wife designed and i had printed up for all of us because his like kirks and mine all said "director" of endprohibition.ca he wanted his to say president,,,,sad very sad i borrowed the money to have those made he and his crew were bragging about getting kicked out of distant non convention restaurants for smoking weed, well my wife and i were speaking to hundreds of delegates and senior Ontario ndp members who went to speak to layton themselves because of my truth,,,my wife and others can back me up on all of it in fact its already here some where although i took one of my posts out because of and for the good of the cause how many of "your" endprohibition members were in fact signed up by my wife ,Marie and I this isn't good for the cause but my reputation and my families goes above the cause especially as i am now a federal candidate just like you no seats is irrelevant THE GREENS MATTER !! you are a child for writing that jealousy and lie filled post about me in a thread you should have stayed out of,, think about that all of you,,, there is a """loose cannon"" ,,all right and its you your ego made you jump on here and put me down after even Marc himself posted this story when the dust settles and the election is over and you and i have lost and you are just a seed seller again and i am barely hanging on building a marina we will still have to do something to end this war i will remember dana,,trust me(i think that's what he means by threats and i here-by demand he makes any of my so-called threats public) go ahead dana ,as to do not provide them , proves you a liar any one who doesn't vote green is endorsing the lies and garbage of dana and the ndp ,or you live in Quebec(bloc has policy) and not helping to stop Marc's ,Michelle's and Greg's extradition and cannabis legalization is certainly not your cause and you are a fool to delude yourselves further the GREENS POLICY # 106 ""regulate marijuana under federal legislation as a product similar to alcohol and tobacco"" pretty clear ,,eh??? short,,sweet to the point no what all's and where if's and this and that ,,bullshit LETS SEE YOUR POLICY ,,,, P C ,, WHATS THAT,, YOU ARE GOING TO WIN A SEAT ,GO TO OTTAWA AND THEN DEVELOP A POLICY ,, EH P C ,,,OOOHHHHHH TOO BAD WELL MAC HERE,,,,ALREADY HAS POLICY ,,, SO QUIT TRYING TO BULLSHIT MY COMMUNITY!!!!!!! and say another lie ,, any one of your choice, like you are doing AND i will escalate my defence in ways that ,,yes dana will be regretful that like all the rest is still no threat!!!!! it is my word!!!!! all of you here i challenge you to find any one or any comment where i broke my word or didn't do what i said i would i was banned from here for sticking up for Renee boje plain and simple i could have posted here any time under this name i was too embarrassed and still am I am not over what happened and how 2 activists marriage could be used as public cannon fodder at a horrible time in their lives. i have all that proof as well and any one that is threatened by these kinds of statements is missing the obvious we must be unified to ever win our fight some one staying in a party that has manipulated our resolutions , publicly denounced our provincial breakthroughs and constantly treated us as lepers simply for a chance to stroke his own ego ,,, well to me it is another embarrassment dana was my brother and now he is a traitor your vote gives what ever party you give it to money to end the crap dana is supporting, yes folks its for the first time in history a time to make a political statement that will be heard,,thank you Mr Chretien do any of you realize how many quit the ndp over what happened with my nomination,,,,,?? it has nothing to do with me,,,its because they are mad the party has the same disease as dana and thinks it will become the liberals and win power they certainly don't want to talk about our issue,,i will change that any of you made it all the way down here you owe it to the cause to tell dana to quit putting down my so called lack of style,,,,he knows in person my presence and style are not belittled and make him , i think , sadly look invisible and that is the real problem here ,, isn't dana bully buster john they call me,,,,just step this way next time "you" can get some attention on our plight don't sell out i still think its great that you through your selling out get the chance to go educate ,for US !! ,it is still right on. I will take the victory as your sacrificial lamb But i do not and don't think i could ever trust you again. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I ask the mods to read them selves and stop the liars from trying to spoil the truth from reaching anyone who should know this information ,please. Edited October 31, 2007 by shavluk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 The NDP Marijauna Policy. When we asked if, in light of controversial publicity last election about Mr. Layton's pro-legalization & regulation stance, was the NDP was rethinking it's drug reform policy?"No," he said "our policy is very much in favour of putting in place decriminalization and legalization, allowing for regulations regarding age and driving concerns. That is the policy we will be running on and it has been our policy for sometime." http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4329.html The Federal NDP will continue to push for changes to the marijuana laws when Parliament resumes this fall. These will include: amnesty for past possession convictions, reduction or elimination of fines for personal possession, and non-punitive measures for personal cultivation. http://libbydavies.ca/mpupdate/safetyanddrugs.html Marijuana The NDP supports the decriminalization of marijuana. They are committed to ensuring that it is used safely and responsibly by implementing the following proposals: A national discussion about rules regarding age, driving under the influence, and grow operations Keeping it out of the hands of minors Changing the fines and dropping convictions for past offenses for simple possession http://www.mapleleafweb.com/old/election/f...atform/ndp.html The Now Done Party have no cannabis policy !! PERIOD !!THIS PERSON IS LYING!!! I wouldn't go that far but I congratulate him on admitting he misrepresents everything....but to be fair SHavluk's reality isn't the same as the rest of the world's.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 Holy shit. I'd say this Dana person has you down pat Shavluk. My experience with John is that he is a arrogant bully who likes to intimidate and threaten others in order to get his way.He has repeatedly sent threatening emails to myself and many other people in the marijuana movement. He has gotten himself repeatedly banned from the CC forums, the Rabble forums and the enMasse forums, because of his abusive posts and name-calling. He uses divisive language, calling everyone who doesn't vote Green a "traitor to the pot movement." He takes any disagreements very personally and lashes out at people who disagree with his tactics. So while I am glad that the Green Party is taking on pro-pot people as their candidates, frankly I don't see John Shavluk as a big help to the pot movement. If I lived in Newton - North Delta, I'd be working and voting for NDP candidate Nancy Clegg. The NDP came in a very close second to the Liberals in the last election, and has seen the biggest growth of support of any of the main three parties. Clegg is not a "marijuana activist," but she clearly supports the NDP's non-punitive approach to drug policy, and the last time Layton was in her riding he made a speech calling for a rules-based approach to marijuana policy as the best way to deal with the problems caused by illegal grow-ops. *********end quote This is from the link below. haha I don't disagree with anything there. Amazing Atheist is a much better poster than you no matter who she/he may be. Also, this post is proof positive of one of the main neurological side effects of Pot use: PARANOIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavluk Posted October 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 They have no actual policy. THAT IS A FACT !! layton is a coward! and a liar with this issue because of what he did at Quebec City September 2006. He can muse all he wants and has been free for 4 years since his POT TV interview to raise a Private Members bill to address the issue. ( i challenged him over it myself,,he is a coward) Its needs to be approved at the convention which is every 2 years. They were free to make a press release ,what a week ago about the crime bill and did they ? NO WAY Only the GREEN PARTY DID! Calling for the legalization of Cannabis based on the explicit WRITTEN AND ADOPTED POLICY!! Next !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazing Atheist Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 I disagree that peple would be allowed to grow there own pot if we regulate it and tax it. Much in the same way you can not make your own hard liquor, is the way Pot would be looked at. If it were to go the legal but regualated route, there would be licensing and many other tupes pf regualtions that would follow it and its procduction. There would be no grow your own in any of this. That is why I said pot will be $50.00 / gram. Much the same way liquor and even tobacco, are taxed to 3-4 times their value, the same thing would have to jappen with pot. You can grow your own tobacco and make your own booze for personal use without any restriction other then you cannot commercially distribute your product. The same will apply for marijuana and has to since so many including myself grow it at home already. If pot was 3 or 4 times it's value it would be like 4 or 5$ a gram as the cost of growing is not that expensive. $10 a gram is more then enough even after you factor in taxes, the high price you mentioned is not feasible considering I can get at least 7 grams for $50 now. To think that the govvernment would simply just legalize it and allow just anyone to grow there own pot, is not very realistic. Even as we move more and more towards otlawing tobacco, it will probably just get taxed into extinction before the outlawing ever takes place. Taxes are high on tobacco because of the strain smokers put on the health care system. Tobacco can be grown too if people do not want to pay the high price at a retailer for a pack etc. Pot will be the same way, so many already grow for personal use already it would be impossible to outlaw personal grows. Pot has to be legal for people to grow and not limited to industrial commercial grows. You do yourself a diservice by not trying to see that, and while your approach is head and shoulders over Shavluk and his cronies, it still is more pie in the sky type thinking on your part. You would like to think thatpot is like tobacco, and it is not. It is a drug and it is not even what we would see as a softdrug, as it has affects that far out weigh the affects of a beer ot two, or a cigarette or two. Basically one joint causes you to be impaired as much as being drunk does. There doe s not seem to be a safe level for pot, that does not impair hand eye co-ordination, or reaction times. This is why it will be treated more like hard liquor then it will be like tobacco. Most of the public will probably see it this way, if legalization + regulation and taxation, are ever achieved. My approach in regards to regulation are in many respects modeled after the tobacco ad liquor industries. Proper regulation and taxation is a key component to doing this properly. Also allow me to correct you on a few points you made here. 1: Cannabis is a soft drug and despite the negativity some show towards the plant it's effects are way over hyped. In regards to it's negative effects a joint or massive bong haul are about as harmful as drinking a cup of coffee. 2: The big lie is that all mind altering substances impair you the same. Trust me on this the effects of pot are completely different to those of alcohol. Pot has never not once effected my hand eye coordination not like alcohol does in fact the only thing I really notice is a slight loss in my reaction time. Pot cannot even be compaired to alcohol or tobacco in the regards that it affects people in a very different mannor. I'm not saying to smoke a joint and then go out driving or anything but studies I have read as well as personal experience show me that a person on pot is far more capable of performing tasks like driving as they become more cautious then those drinking etc. Pot will be treated like hard liquor, and there will be strict control on who gets licenses to grow it and just what level of THC it will be allowed to have. then it will be taxed and judging by the taxes we have on liquor and tobacco, the tax will be sevral times what the price is going for now. The THC cannot be regulated as the plant produces the chemical naturally, in fact our brains are specifically design for THC in take as well as producing the chemical. Fact is I can sit here and smoke 5 grams in one sitting and I will never overdose. Right now I smoke really good stuff and I can assure you that THC levels will not rise any higher then they are now in strains. Cannabis will also be no more expensive then the going street price now because if it were it would just nurture the black market which is what we are trying to avoid. Since pot users do not harm anyone nor do they put strain on the health care system like those who drink large amounts of alcohol or smoke cigarettes the taxes will be far lower then booze and alcohol. You cannot even compare pot to booze and alcohol in regards to taxation, if anything it would be more comparable to coffee. In regards to licensing it won't be that strict as quite a few industries such as big tobacco and liquor industries try to break in on this 7 billion dollar a year industry. That would be a goal that might get passed some time much later in life. But for now and for quite some time to come, pot will not ever be an issue that will command much attention for the voters. It is a tiny side issue at its very best. Hopefully unlike Shavluk, you will be able to see this more clearly, and understand that what I have said is much more likely to happen then plain outright legalization of drugs period. I think pot will be legal sooner then you think it will be. I understand what you are saying but I have researched this for years and I can assure you 100% that the price of legal pot with taxes will at least meet street prices to put the black market out of business. A large part of legalization has to be about harm reduction and crime reduction. There are valid reasons why booze and alcohol taxes are as high as what they are. There is however no reason for pot to ever go above $10 a gram. there is also no reason to not allow people to have one grow light and up to 5 or 6 plants either for personal use. Legalize, Regulate, Educate, Medicate. == First, you cannot be thrown in Jail for simple posession for personal amounts. that is a fact. Yes the law states that you can be thrown in jail for possession, in fact I know a bunch of people who now have done jail time for possession. Marijuana nationally has not been legalized or decriminalized even in regards to possession of small amounts. If jail isn't bad enough you also get a nasty criminal record which hinders your ability to travel and get a job if they do a record check etc. essentially ruining your life. second, and this is funny, you people view yourselves as "counter culture heroes"? hahahahathat IS pathetic. Calling me and others like me pathetic simply because you disagree takes away from any argument you have. Resorting to insults is usually a last ditch effort for those losing debates. third, you hope to gain sympathy? for what? For wanting to be able to smoke a bong in a coffee house in front of 100 police officers? Do you realize how smug and self interested you are being? There are REAL issues out there. This is NOT one of them. See, you are asking the government to take it's eye off of REAL issues that are pressing and are life and death for the freedom for you to get high in public? Do you see how pathetic and self righteous that is? Most people don't give a fig and for good reason. I am not just fighting for MY right to use Cannabis and not be persecuted for it. I am fighting for everyone who has and will be persecuted for using a plant. For me an many others this is a very real issue effecting Canada and the world socially and economically. No longer should people be persecuted for a plant jailed, heckled or insulted. Fourth - Pot is NOT "Not harmful at all" There are harms and risks to smoking pot. While small and not that HUGE, there IS harm to smoking pot. Just like there is to smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol. There are health benefits to drinking alcohol as well. So you cannot say that and expect people to take you seriously. If people don't want to smoke they can vaporize it or cook it into food... Pot when smoked cannot even be compared to cigarettes in regards to harm as tobacco is completely different then cannabis. The benefits o using cannabis by far out weigh any of the negative health effects. As for alcohol there is no health effects of drinking alcohol, there are however health effects in beverages that contain alcohol such as beer or wine. The health benefits are derived not from the alcohol but the other chemical properties in the drinks. Fifth, a hunger strike? come on. And you think the government will have 'no choice'?are you serious? There are people on hunger strikes ALL THE TIME. Almost without exception they can and ARE completely ignored. When was the last time there was a national hunger strike in Canada. People who do this in dictatorships are ignored but Canada is not a dictatorship... The government can just be a little stubborn. Again letting a bunch of people die is not an option and any action taken against us including arresting us and force feeding us is illegal as it is a clear violation of our civil rights. I admire your passion. Why not direct it towards bettering veterans health care? Why not have a unger strike for breast cancer? Do you see where I am going here?Make a difference on a real issue. this is not one of them. Veterans organizations and other groups fight for their health care and breast cancer is an issue other groups of people are working towards a solution for.... I do give to charities as well. You do not have any grounds for saying that prohibition is not a 'real' issue when it is in fact a real issue. While you may not be effected by it many of us are. You say you are not anti pot and not to say you are when in you have demonstrated a lack of compassion for those persecuted. If you were pro pot you would also acknowledge that not only do current policies violate civil rights but also cost endless amounts of your tax dollars to persecute fellow users. You have demonstrated to me anyway that you are anti legalization and anti pot by calling our cause pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Dancer Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 You can grow your own tobacco and make your own booze for personal use without any restriction other then you cannot commercially distribute your product. Wine and Beer yes......liquor, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazing Atheist Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) unapproved Edited November 1, 2007 by Charles Anthony pending moderator review Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavluk Posted October 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) Shavluk your view of the NDP clearly comes from the fact that you (edited because he is lying). Your support for the green party comes from the fact you are a stirling member of the green party.The best defense you have for slamming the NDP is that they don't have written policy. I hate to break it to you but voting green party will change everything despite you over hyping of the party. This battle will be won in parliament by the green party or the NDP. It is up to the anti prohibition groups to put pressure on the government. You are plain wrong ,,, And a malicious LIAR AS WELL !! I don't share your ignorance or deceit and obviously know a lot more than you just because I know what I am doing does work ,and more importantly , just because of you and your argument full of lies here just convinced me that I am INDEED winning. Coward! Thank you for your obvious fear. The loss of numbers to layton will have him turning cannabis chatty when I am done ,,WAIT ! There is no wasted VOTE ANYMORE ! quote*** Shavluk your view of the NDP clearly comes from the fact that you (edited by shavluk because I can). Your support for the green party comes from the fact you are a sterling member of the green party. *********** Again you try to cause crap by lying? Mods? I quit the now done party in disgust. You are an ass. PROVE OTHERWISE !!! To any sane person you have shown your true hand. I don't bother with liars and if the Mods don't care enough to call you on them well I guess maybe this place isn't what it seems. quote *** The best defense you have for slamming the NDP is that they don't have written policy. **** That's all I need with and based on your argument isn't it ????????? Its enough for the truth and to get cannabis people organized to help themselves!! I spent thousands of dollars finding out how it works in the now done party and layton knows all about what it takes for him to pipe up again and he killed all that stuff last Sept 2006. That's the facts. 6 RESOLUTIONS by time we were done! What a coward and hypocrite ! Anyone who has anything to do with cannabis and doesn't vote GREEN PARTY deserves to live without their rights I guess , longer. If any here think layton has done anything for the last 4 years or will at some point ,well I have some Florida swamp land for you.. I will make sure he does say something next time ,mark my word !! Next time someone goes through all the trouble , work and money and gets a resolution or 2 approved , and then takes it all the way to the national convention. I am done with you ,,thanks for building this educational thread but I just want facts though NO BS LIES !! (edit for the sake of fair play) I am not some anonymous windbag type here as shavluk is my real name. Edited November 1, 2007 by shavluk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck E Stan Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 I am not some anonymous windbag type here....... Sure fooled everyone here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavluk Posted November 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 Hello Ces Whats your storey? I know a lot just have fun because of my style and it isn't a problem unless lies come into play. I wont stop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 The technique at play here is interesting. It's one thing to call for legalization...hell, I'm probably luke warm in favor of decriminalization myself...but it's another to threaten to go to the barricades over it like some here. Shavluk aside, because...well...just because he's clearly insane and no one takes him very seriously...but there seems to be a great deal of weight thrown behind this wonderdrug thesis by people who ought to know better. Pot is a weed that makes you feel funny. It's not a rain forest cure for all disease or even some disease, and probably not even one disease. It's not some "right" that "the people" have that's being taken away by the man. And for God's sake, if you view it as a "culture," you need professional help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazing Atheist Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 The technique at play here is interesting. It's one thing to call for legalization...hell, I'm probably luke warm in favor of decriminalization myself...but it's another to threaten to go to the barricades over it like some here. Shavluk aside, because...well...just because he's clearly insane and no one takes him very seriously...but there seems to be a great deal of weight thrown behind this wonderdrug thesis by people who ought to know better. Pot is a weed that makes you feel funny. It's not a rain forest cure for all disease or even some disease, and probably not even one disease. It's not some "right" that "the people" have that's being taken away by the man. And for God's sake, if you view it as a "culture," you need professional help. There is a sub culture that surrounds this plant... Also Cannabis use has been practiced for thousands of years and continues today. This plant has played a pivotal role through out history as many great men and women used it for 'inspiration'. For example William Shakespear was a well known user. Other plants as well including Peyote and various species of Mushrooms have also been used. Fact is we have had the right to use this plant and others taken away from us in the 1920's. As for it's medical benefits they do exist and while it certainly does not cure disease it is a wonderful treatment for numerous ailments. The government acknowledges it's applications in the medical field as well as many doctors too. If the government told you that it was illegal to vote for anyone except a specific candidate even though others are on the ballot would your right to vote be gone? This is how I feel in regards to cannabis as other more dangerous drugs are legal while a harmless plant I enjoy on a regular basis is not. Why is it that dangerous drugs like tobacco and alcohol and lets not forget the endless amounts of legal drugs that big pharma puts out that kill thousands every year. To put it simply there is no legal basis at all why cannabis is illegal and why it was made illegal in the first place. It was made illegal at the same time as alcohol and never returned to it's status as legal. === Shavluk like seriously man the name calling and insults are getting you no where.... You don't bother with liars yet here we are and you still respond to my posts. All you have done is freak out and throw around insults, seriously show a little maturity for the sake of the younger members here who may read this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 Yes the law states that you can be thrown in jail for possession, in fact I know a bunch of people who now have done jail time for possession. Marijuana nationally has not been legalized or decriminalized even in regards to possession of small amounts.If jail isn't bad enough you also get a nasty criminal record which hinders your ability to travel and get a job if they do a record check etc. essentially ruining your life. What the law states and what happens in practice are not the same. If your friend was thrown in jail for simple posession of a small amount or marijuana other charges must have been involved. Calling me and others like me pathetic simply because you disagree takes away from any argument you have. Resorting to insults is usually a last ditch effort for those losing debates. Anything I can do to try and let you see reality from behind your massive ego I will do. Consider it a public service. I am not just fighting for MY right to use Cannabis and not be persecuted for it. I am fighting for everyone who has and will be persecuted for using a plant.For me an many others this is a very real issue effecting Canada and the world socially and economically. No longer should people be persecuted for a plant jailed, heckled or insulted. So if you did not ever smoke pot you would feel the same way? Feel a little hypocritical yet? By the way, heroin is derived from a plant as well. So is Cocaine. Because the drug comes from a 'plant' doesn't make it any less than what it is - a drug. If people don't want to smoke they can vaporize it or cook it into food... Pot when smoked cannot even be compared to cigarettes in regards to harm as tobacco is completely different then cannabis. The benefits o using cannabis by far out weigh any of the negative health effects.As for alcohol there is no health effects of drinking alcohol, there are however health effects in beverages that contain alcohol such as beer or wine. The health benefits are derived not from the alcohol but the other chemical properties in the drinks. The tar in a typical joint is worth 20 cigarettes according to the latest studies. so you are wrong on that count. You are also wrong in regards to Alcohol. At first they thought it was just wine but in fact, it is the alcohol itself that has the positive health effects. Moderate drinking is healthy. So you are wrong again. Perhaps you should get your facts straight. You do not have any grounds for saying that prohibition is not a 'real' issue when it is in fact a real issue. While you may not be effected by it many of us are.You say you are not anti pot and not to say you are when in you have demonstrated a lack of compassion for those persecuted. If you were pro pot you would also acknowledge that not only do current policies violate civil rights but also cost endless amounts of your tax dollars to persecute fellow users. You have demonstrated to me anyway that you are anti legalization and anti pot by calling our cause pathetic. I could care less if they legalize it or not. There are many, many much more important issues out there than this. As I said, I smoke it from time to time even now and the law has no effect on me. The current policies DO NOT violate civil rights in anyway. If it did the Charter could be used in a court case to strike down the legislation. That has not happened and will not likely happen. Maybe when you get out of your twenties you will be able to prioritze your issues better. And no pot smokers are going to die from a hunger strike. You are not monks from Burma here. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffycat Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 The tar in a typical joint is worth 20 cigarettes according to the latest studies. so you are wrong on that count. Link to study please. From what I recall wrt to just one of these types of studies I have read, albeit a long time ago, was that for research purposes, the entire plant was ground up and used. This included stems and leaves - which are NOT smoked by users and contain massive amounts of 'tars'. It is only the flowers which are used for any kind of combustive consumption. WRT cigarettes - the tar is the least of your worries - the hundreds of added ingredients are the real kicker with commercial tobacco. (If you are going to smoke tobacco - you are certainly better off growing your own). I would also add - that a comparison between tobacco and cannabis is poor from the onset - like comparing apples to pork chops - yes both can be eaten but the similarity ends there. You are also wrong in regards to Alcohol. At first they thought it was just wine but in fact, it is the alcohol itself that has the positive health effects. Moderate drinking is healthy. Link to studies please! So you are wrong again. Perhaps you should get your facts straight. Perhaps you should! WRT Red wine it is the polyphenols and variant anti-oxidents which seem to contribute the majority of beneficial effects. ( Here is one article wrt red wine and cancer. While the alcohol content may play some role (perhaps solubility of particular elements within the solution) - it is NOT the main variable contributing to positive health effects. White Doors, do you know why cannabis was criminalised in the first place? (Hint: NOT for health concerns). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 White Doors So if you did not ever smoke pot you would feel the same way? Feel a little hypocritical yet? By the way, heroin is derived from a plant as well. So is Cocaine. Because the drug comes from a 'plant' doesn't make it any less than what it is - a drug. Cocain is used in modern day pharmacuticles. Every pharmacy has a Narcotics lock up safe. they use all sorts of 'controlled' or 'illegal substances'. Coaine is mixed in with another prescription drug, and only the pharmacist seems to have a license of some kind fo posess it. Moderate drinking is healthy.So you are wrong again. Perhaps you should get your facts straight. Everything in moderation is healthy. Everything. Maybe when you get out of your twenties you will be able to prioritze your issues better. And no pot smokers are going to die from a hunger strike. No pot smokers who are responsible (even those who are not) will never overdose on pot. I have given it a good shot on a few occasions. I got really tired and went to bed. Never have woken up with a hangover in a sense most alcohol and other drugs may do to you. There was a couple times I felt dizzy and needed to lay down before I puke. I have only done acid once in my life. I can tell you that night was way more f^cked up than any night I have been using pot by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 Here you go Buffy! Some of the benefits of alcohol consumption: http://patients.uptodate.com/topic.asp?file=gen_hlth/4978 Excerpt: Reduce your risk of developing heart disease, peripheral vascular disease and intermittent claudication Reduce your risk of dying of a heart attack Possibly reduce your risk of strokes, particularly ischemic strokes Lower your risk of gallstones Possibly reduce your risk of diabetes Here is the one for smoking pot: http://www.medic8.com/healthguide/articles/marijuana.html Excerpt: Even infrequent abuse can cause burning and stinging of the mouth and throat, often accompanied by a heavy cough. Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems that tobacco smokers do, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, a heightened risk of lung infections, and a greater tendency to obstructed airways. Smoking marijuana possibly increases the likelihood of developing cancer of the head or neck. A study comparing 173 cancer patients and 176 healthy individuals produced evidence that marijuana smoking doubled or tripled the risk of these cancers.Marijuana abuse also has the potential to promote cancer of the lungs and other parts of the respiratory tract because it contains irritants and carcinogens. In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke. It also induces high levels of an enzyme that converts certain hydrocarbons into their carcinogenic form—levels that may accelerate the changes that ultimately produce malignant cells. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which increases the lungs' exposure to carcinogenic smoke. These facts suggest that, puff for puff, smoking marijuana may be more harmful to the lungs than smoking tobacco. Thanks for asking Buffy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 White DoorsCocain is used in modern day pharmacuticles. Every pharmacy has a Narcotics lock up safe. they use all sorts of 'controlled' or 'illegal substances'. Coaine is mixed in with another prescription drug, and only the pharmacist seems to have a license of some kind fo posess it. Everything in moderation is healthy. Everything. No pot smokers who are responsible (even those who are not) will never overdose on pot. I have given it a good shot on a few occasions. I got really tired and went to bed. Never have woken up with a hangover in a sense most alcohol and other drugs may do to you. There was a couple times I felt dizzy and needed to lay down before I puke. I have only done acid once in my life. I can tell you that night was way more f^cked up than any night I have been using pot by itself. I neither stated nor implied that you can overdose on pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffycat Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 White Doors, Your first link doesn't talk about why alcoholic beverages contribute to health - it is more about the ills of booze than anything else - so you might want to find another one. Your 'pot' link is not a study - it is a propoganda piece from the government of the US. Try harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old_bold&cold Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 I have already posted a link that showed that the misrepresented facts that many here are so quickly posting about pot and its cannabinoid receptors, is being used in ways that are just not true. There are no such cannabinoid receptors the way people are portraying them. The articles these were all taken from were research to see if Pot had any medicinal usages and none were ever found where they actually cured anything. Pot at its best is used to mask things, and does not ever cure any of them. As for the cannibanoid receptors go, these are just used to describe the anadamides as receptors that process the cannabis, as well aa many other of the bodies hormones and things naturally occurring in the body. There are no receptors that are only used for cannibis only. If that were true it would be so easy to develope a blocking agent for this and end much of what we have today. But it is not, and there have been the studies that were done for this and it was all done trying to find out any of the possible medicinal properties that it may contain. People since have taken snippets of this research and then used it to promote it as being truth, when in fact these are taken out of context, and misused. The health risks of using pot, are very nominal for the young people and to some it does not matter if the ppulse is raised and low sperm counts while young and in the prime have never been a problem. As age comes though, these can and will be more of a question of whether the user accpets them as risks, that are still no issue, or some may then see the issues. The ability ot pot to mask the stomach upset after Chemotherapy, is still not a cure, but one of many things that can be done. The fact that pot does not have a very large window where there are no effects to where the effects are such that motor vehicle driving and other attention demanding duties require, make it more an eitther /or type thing. There is no accpetable limit on pot and abilities. Sure most of the population has tried pot. i have tried it and for a while in my youth did so regularly. It pretty much just put me to sleep, so I smoked before going to bed, and had some dreams that I never would have had otherwise. Most of us have similar stories, but for the most part the vast majority of us do not use it today, because we saw no reason for it. Just as in growing up we found that drinking to be drunk was stupid and harmful, and for the most part we now drink only at social gatherings and never to excess. I call it growing up and being wiser. But I am sure the pot heads will disagree. We have all seen the pothead burnout types that just never knew when to quit and knowing that, we have to question that usage is not harmful, as in taking a look around it is not that hard to spot the pot heads, and their obvious lack of control and thinking. Yes these guys probably can all be helped to get back most of what they have lost function wise, but same can be said for heroine addicts as well. But we are not hearing anyone saying heroine should be legal either, are we? The fact that the voters are aware of pot and most have tried it and now are for the most part willing to say that it should not be so that criminal records are given out for simple use, for the first offence etc. But the majority of people still do not think it should be legal. The problem is those who try pushing this always take a small issue of saying no criminal record ad fines for first offence, to mean that these people are willing to legalize it, and that is so far from the truth that it makes me wonder at just what their game is. For now and I would say for the next coupe decades, there will be no majority of people saying pot should be legal. There will be a move to decriminalize its use for first time offenders, and maybe even if we push it for simple possession completely, under 30 grams. But that is about as much as it will ever happen in my life time and in the life times of most people here now. The fact that the pro group will take this and push for way more, and misuse facts to their own advantage comes as no surprise. But the hard facts remain, that the vast majority of peope are not willing to legalize pot. Not today or for anytime in the forseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavluk Posted November 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) The points said about alcohol ,one way or another are really just irrelevant as even yesterday on TV Canadian Cancer society Doctors said no alcohol is best re: cancer but hey ,they never said BOO or even that about cannabis and never will. You should read about www.phoenixtears.ca Edited November 1, 2007 by shavluk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottSA Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 There is a sub culture that surrounds this plant...Also Cannabis use has been practiced for thousands of years and continues today. This plant has played a pivotal role through out history as many great men and women used it for 'inspiration'. For example William Shakespear was a well known user. Other plants as well including Peyote and various species of Mushrooms have also been used. Fact is we have had the right to use this plant and others taken away from us in the 1920's. As for it's medical benefits they do exist and while it certainly does not cure disease it is a wonderful treatment for numerous ailments. The government acknowledges it's applications in the medical field as well as many doctors too. [...and so on] Yes, I'm aware that there's a sub-culture. It makes me laugh, because when a group of people get together to celebrate their emotional escapism as a virtue, they've got more serious problems than they think. I've smoked dope too...many many times for years in my youth. I even used to think it helped me write, until I discovered that it doesn't make much difference either way, really. What it does do is remove you from the world of reality, for a while, depending on how good the smoke is. But when that becomes a lifestyle unto itself, and then twisted to become a "culture," there are real problems afoot. I'm also aware that you're overstating the case of a weed that makes you feel funny. First, we never had a "right" to smoke dope...we just weren't constrained from it prior to the twenties. Don't confuse, as so many do, "rights" with priveleges...or with irrelevancies. Pot was irrelevant prior to the 20s; not a "right." Second, look, dude...pot is not a wonder drug. It just isn't. The Marijuana Party sunk itself with that argument...it should have stuck to the "relatively harmless" argument, because once it hung its hat on the medical marijuana argument, it was called upon to prove it, and in spite of the usual claims that "numerous studies have shown this and that," the fact is that there are not 'numerous studies', there are a few; double blind studies are almost non-existent; and such 'studies' as exist are mostly anecdotal or sloppy as hell. And don't produce some study, or second hand report on some study, and claim that I'm wrong, because a single exception is meaningless, and in any event the conclusions are probably not what you think they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Doors Posted November 1, 2007 Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 White Doors,Your first link doesn't talk about why alcoholic beverages contribute to health - it is more about the ills of booze than anything else - so you might want to find another one. Your 'pot' link is not a study - it is a propoganda piece from the government of the US. Try harder. Doesn't work that way Buffster. Refute or concede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shavluk Posted November 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2007 ******quote But when that becomes a lifestyle unto itself, and then twisted to become a "culture," there are real problems afoot. ***** Hahhahhaha OK I will bite ,,,,WHAT PROBLEMS ???? hahhahhaha unbelievable Mrs Kravitz types even as men ??? ,, bizarre!! Tells me sooo much about possible overly short poor esteemed , no life ,momma's boys here. Why is it so important to you last 2 posters ? Whats your goal to save people? Your comments themselves warn people instantly and show your true intent. It sounds more like you miss cannabis than anything and both by your silly lies and non arguments have now done more to educate those reading than I could have ever hoped to because anyone can see your venom ! What a fabulous day as I got some excellent news! OK bat-er up Who wants to look stupid first by fabricating lies about cannabis just out of their own very poor esteem or real lack of anything helpful to really contribute to interested readers , voters and fellow citizens ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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