Fascism returns to Europe

[M.Dancer]

Excuse me for assualting your semantic sensibilities with redundancies, but I'm sure you don't mind that much, since it supplies a red herring. As far as the stats I supplied are concerned, here's Mark Steyn:

"Already, the Mayor of Brussels, Freddy Thielemans, presides over a ruling Socialist Party caucus, ten of whose seventeen members are Muslim.

You really had a tough time in that second razte university poli sci class eh?

You should be careful quoting Steyn. Or at least, quote him carefully, I seem to remember you implying that there were only 17 seats......

17 Socialists in a 47 member assembly. They may be the largest party, but they are still the minority and can't pass dick all with the support of the remaining 37 non muslims.

[M.Dancer]

But you know what Momo? None of that is really all that relevent to what you saw happen there. What you saw was an egrigious violation of everything the west stands for. And you sit here arguing semantics and birthrates.

I don't know what you saw, but all I saw was a demo with people being arrested. That happens all the time. Some of them looked remarkbaly shabby....Oh....and ominous melodramatic musak....

So big deal. 100 odd (quite odd) people got arrested. I am curious as to what the charges were. When I was in Bruxelles I almost got arrested......beer and a spanisg girl were involved.....

[ScottSA]

I don't know what you saw, but all I saw was a demo with people being arrested. That happens all the time. Some of them looked remarkbaly shabby....Oh....and ominous melodramatic musak....

So big deal. 100 odd (quite odd) people got arrested. I am curious as to what the charges were. When I was in Bruxelles I almost got arrested......beer and a spanisg girl were involved.....

The only charges laid were against the two VB legislators, the ones who were handcuffed before they got on the bus, for supposedly assaulting the bus driver. The charges were laid after the two laid charges against the police for illegally arresting them in the first place.

You think it's a coincidence that 10 of 17 of reps from the Mayor's party are Muslim, and that the mayor banned this demonstration while allowing 3500 other demonstrations to go forward? You think this is in some way simialr to you almost getting arrested for beer and senioritas?

[guyser]

Guyser, you really aren't making much of a contribution here...you seem completely unaware of the suituation in Europe, and apparently couldn't care less, so why don't you trot off to your psychoanalyst and complain about all the tinfoil heads around you?

Well thanks for that....wait, your a mod now?

Anyhow , I am aware, perhaps not as much as some, but enough to know when tin foil hattery is presented as "my god the sky is falling" .

That of course would be you.

You started this thread on the basis of, and I quote.."The film that follows was taken there, and shows the wholesale rounding up of demonstrators in scenes eerily reminiscent of another period in Europe's history."

In other words you were aghast that people were arrested. But funny that, they were arrested for an illegal protest. So in other words , or your own...."you are unaware of the situation in Europe" .

There were two arrested...."wholesale arrested" ? Graduate of the MikedavidOO school of hyperbole I see.

You could make a bumper sticker......

[ScottSA]

17 Socialists in a 47 member assembly. They may be the largest party, but they are still the minority and can't pass dick all with the support of the remaining 37 non muslims.

Speaking of not reading things carefully, not to mention crappy classes, the demonstration is illegal because the mayor refused to allow it. The Mayor. One person. The other 47 cannot overrule that decision in Brussels anymore than the city council can override the mayor of Toronto's witholding permission for a demonstration in TO.

If the mayor of TO allowed 3500 demonstrations over 6 years, and witheld permission for only 6, even Torontonians would be able to connect the dots. The reason there were only 2-300 is because people were stopped on the way there, the German contingent cancelled over death threats, and most people didn't know about it until afterwards, due to a dearth of coverage in the MSM, which, as I'm finding out, is a whole lot different from our MSM.

Here's an open letter from Vladimir Palko, one of Slovakia’s leading politicians, to the Brussel's Journal.:

"...Police-force without any reason attacked legally elected politicians in free elections. Until today, I thought that something like this is possible only in Lukashenko’s Belarus, in today’s Europe. Moreover, I do not understand why it is forbidden in Brussels to demonstrate against islamization of Europe. Islamization of Europe is a serious problem. We can have various opinions and disagree about solutions needed, but it is highly important to freely discuss about them..."

This is pretty serious stuff Momo. This is Europe we're talking about, and more than that it's the seat of the EU. We're not talking about beer and Spanish women, and trying to equate the two in some kind of lame attempt to get a laugh points to a profound failure to grasp the significance of the situation unfolding in Europe.

[Jerry Galinda]

On September 11 of this year, there was a demonstration against Islamification held in Brussels, the seat of the EU. It was small, absolutely peaceful, and multinational...one of the protesters even carried a Canadian flag that I sent. The film that follows was taken there, and shows the wholesale rounding up of demonstrators in scenes eerily reminiscent of another period in Europe's history. It's in Flemish, but it's not necessary to understand the language to see what's going on. "Belgium is a dictorship" looks pretty much the same in any european language.

Just for a bit of background, 10 of the 17 City legislators in Brussels are Muslim. 57% of the new births in Brussels are Muslim. It doesn't take a demographer to see where this is going, and going fast.

What does it mean ? - that "Fascism returns to Europe" ??????

[ScottSA]

What does it mean ? - that "Fascism returns to Europe" ??????

It means Momo should have attended an accredited social studies class instead of wining and womening in Brussels.

[Black Dog]

One gets the feeling that, if we were talking about a peaceful demonstration by left-wingers or Mulsims that got busted up, folks like Scott would be fairly bursting with praise for the people they're now deriding as fascists.

Edited September 19, 2007 by Black Dog

[ScottSA]

One gets the feeling that, if we were talking about a peaceful demonstration by left-wingers or Mulsims that got busted up, folks like Scott would be fairly bursting with praise for the people they're now deriding as fascists.

I would care much less on a personal level, that's true. But part of the problem is that it wouldn't happen. Have you missed the elephant squatting on the table? Have you missed the riots, the car burnings, and the general uproar everytime someone does something that mildly annoys Islamic Rage Boy, and the grovelling apology and appeasement from European politicians that follows? Where are the police when the cars burn? Where are the arrests? Where's the outrage? Apparently the police prefer to muster their forces to prevent duly elected politicians from peacefully saying they've had enough.

How long do you think the Eurocrats can keep a lid on the ever widening discontent at the incremental destruction of European civilization?

[Jerry Galinda]

It means Momo should have attended an accredited social studies class instead of wining and womening in Brussels.

I can't understand (may be my English is too poor) - is it fascism ?

Have they fascism mentality ?

or something like that ?

[ScottSA]

I can't understand (may be my English is too poor) - is it fascism ?

Have they fascism mentality ?

or something like that ?

The woman Momo was going out with at the time kept snapping her heels and shouting "Vive el Franco!" Momo didn't understand at the time, since he was busy feeding her beer, and thought it was some kind of good socialist slogan, so he didn't mind. Only later did he find out that Franco was not another Spanish nickname for Che.

[Jerry Galinda]

The woman Momo was going out with at the time kept snapping her heels and shouting "Vive el Franco!" Momo didn't understand at the time, since he was busy feeding her beer, and thought it was some kind of good socialist slogan, so he didn't mind. Only later did he find out that Franco was not another Spanish nickname for Che.

It sounds like a joke for me.

It's only prove misunderstandng (lack of knowledge) - but not confirm that "fascism returns to Europe".

[ScottSA]

It sounds like a joke for me.

It's only prove misunderstandng (lack of knowledge) - but not confirm that "fascism returns to Europe".

Sorry Jerry. The term 'fascism' refers to a lock step mentality of repression, the spirit of which is taken from the 20th century fascist movements around the world in the last century. The repression of a peaceful demonstration in Brussels is in keeping with that mentality.

[guyser]

. The repression of a peaceful demonstration in Brussels is in keeping with that mentality.

I suppose I could peacefully enter your house, or a store for that matter and peacefully walk out with stuff that is not mine. No harm, it will be very peaceful.

Ah, but it is illegal to do so. This is the point you fail to grasp, time and again. As was this demonstration.

"Brussels Mayor Freddy Thielemans banned the protest last month, calling SIOE an inflammatory group and its proposed demonstration a threat to public order. An appeals court upheld the ban Aug. 29."

Banned, appealed, upheld on appeal.

Peaceful has nothing to do with this. It was illegal.

[Argus]

Hmmm......

"Police arrested two leaders of a Belgian far-right party Tuesday for staging an illegal protest against the "Islamization of Europe," six years to the day after the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington"

The horror, people actually arrested for doing illegal stuff... oh my god. This world is falling apart.

Oh noes..............

A true democratic society does not ban a peaceful political demonstration. In the US, the most free democracy in the world, even the KKK are free to parade if that is their choice, with police protecting their right to do so.

Clearly the Belgians, like so many on the left, do not have much enthusiasm for freedom of speech unless they agree with the speech.

[Argus]

I suppose I could peacefully enter your house, or a store for that matter and peacefully walk out with stuff that is not mine. No harm, it will be very peaceful.

Ah, but it is illegal to do so. This is the point you fail to grasp, time and again. As was this demonstration.

"Brussels Mayor Freddy Thielemans banned the protest last month, calling SIOE an inflammatory group and its proposed demonstration a threat to public order. An appeals court upheld the ban Aug. 29."

Banned, appealed, upheld on appeal.

Peaceful has nothing to do with this. It was illegal.

Jews were illegal at one point. I suppose you find the police were perfectly right to round them up and cart them off.

[Argus]

One gets the feeling that, if we were talking about a peaceful demonstration by left-wingers or Mulsims that got busted up, folks like Scott would be fairly bursting with praise for the people they're now deriding as fascists.

I defend the right of anyone to speak their mind, and I am very much impressed by the Americans and their willingness to let anyone, however vile, speak their peace, demonstrate as they choose, march or whatever they want to do. I am as equally unimpressed with the repressive mindset of the Left, which believes people are too stupid to be allowed to be exposed to "harmful" speech and views, and that there is nothing wrong with them deciding what is and is not harmful or dangerous.

The Left, which feels government should control everything, has never really trusted the idea of individuals with their own political views - unless those political views echo those of the Left, of course.

[guyser]

Jews were illegal at one point. I suppose you find the police were perfectly right to round them up and cart them off.

The facts of this event are that they applied and were denied to hold this rally,they appealed and lost and they did it anyway .

I am only saying that they were arrested for the demo. Not because of nor in spite of it being peaceful.

The op said it was peaceful thus any action against them was fascist. No they were arrested for holding something illegal. I would think that democratic countries like Belgium , where one can appeal to the courts ( and still be denied) would not be fascist.

As for your analogy, where could the Jews have appealed? They couldn't and thus improper .

[ScottSA]

The facts of this event are that they applied and were denied to hold this rally,they appealed and lost and they did it anyway .

I am only saying that they were arrested for the demo. Not because of nor in spite of it being peaceful.

The op said it was peaceful thus any action against them was fascist. No they were arrested for holding something illegal. I would think that democratic countries like Belgium , where one can appeal to the courts ( and still be denied) would not be fascist.

As for your analogy, where could the Jews have appealed? They couldn't and thus improper .

That makes no sense, and you're digging yourself deeper into an indefensible point. You have retreated from claiming that the hallmark of legitimate repression is the legal status of the repressed, to the questionable redoubt that it is characterized instead by the ability of the repressed to appeal. Appeal they did, to a higher court, which...listen carefully...said it could not constitutionally overrule the mayor in a civic matter. There is no mechanism in this case for direct appeal, which means for all intents and purposes that there is no appeal, which means that the permit...one of 6 denied in a slate of 3500 previously allowed by this same mayor...was denied by fiat. According to your new position then, that's totalitariansm. I would tend to agree.

As events transpired, the people arrested were brutally attacked for no reason. The only disturbance of the peace was undertaken by the police, apparently illegally arresting three members of the EU parliament, one of which (Italy) has been apologized to and the others (Flemish) are taking the city to court.

Face it...this is indefensible behavior in a state which claims to be ruled by the demos. Europe has always tended toward autocracy and totalitarianism, and has been uneasy beside democracy. Apparently the shift is in progress again through the unholy alliance between the left and Islam.

[guyser]

That makes no sense, and you're digging yourself deeper into an indefensible point. You have retreated from claiming that the hallmark of legitimate repression is the legal status of the repressed, to the questionable redoubt that it is characterized instead by the ability of the repressed to appeal.

I think you are confusing me with Argus. He brought up the analogy and I answered . It had nothing to do with the Belgains.

I have not retreated on anything. They applied for a permit and were denied. They went anyway and were arrested. Thats it, end of story.

If you want to talk about the Mayor and his willy nilly ways with permits I am with you on that. But that was not your original premise.

Appeal they did, to a higher court, which...listen carefully...said it could not constitutionally overrule the mayor in a civic matter.

Their laws their people. If it cannot be overturned then so be it. Make that your case and we can talk.

One can be refused appeal in this country by our highest court. So are we totalitarian?

According to your new position then, that's totalitariansm. I would tend to agree.

I dont see a new position. If you do point it out to me.

As events transpired, the people arrested were brutally attacked for no reason. The only disturbance of the peace was undertaken by the police, apparently illegally arresting three members of the EU parliament, one of which (Italy) has been apologized to and the others (Flemish) are taking the city to court.

As for "brutally attacked" , are you watching the same vid as you posted?. Because there was not a shred of brutality nor anyone attacked.

I suspect when arrested , should they resist they will be manhandled. That looks like it occured , albeit mildly. No blood nothing. Far worse occurs on Jarvis St in TO and the lower east side in Van anyday of the week.There isnt fascism here , or do you think there is?

[ScottSA]

I think you are confusing me with Argus. He brought up the analogy and I answered . It had nothing to do with the Belgains.

I have not retreated on anything. They applied for a permit and were denied. They went anyway and were arrested. Thats it, end of story.

It would be impossible to confuse you with Argus, but by the above characterization, you've proved quite clearly that what he said was far above your head, so there's no point in continuing...

[guyser]

It would be impossible to confuse you with Argus, but by the above characterization, you've proved quite clearly that what he said was far above your head, so there's no point in continuing...

Well, one cant be sure with you. You get confused.

Why not answer about the "brutal violence ?"

Because you cant. There wasnt any and you know that. But you infuse your own insecurities on something that plainly did not take place.

You do that a lot.

Why not answer about the illegality of the protest? Because your whole argument goes pffffft !

And because you cant.

And know....oh my....you want to put Germany arresting Jews with Belgians being arrested for carrying out an illegal protest in the same boat.

The Tylenol PM offer still stands.

I would take it if I were you. The sleepless nights are killing you.

[betsy]

While going through Ottawa last weekend I noticed campaign signs up everywhere. Some names are foreign-sounding (Arab?).

Out of curiousity....how many Muslims are running for office nation-wide?

How many Muslims do we have sitting in office right now?

Like White Doors, I am concerned.

Don't forget, it was McGuinty of the Liberal Party who had the audacity to even consider legalizing Sharia Law not too long ago,

and the recent judgement call made by Dion over the veiled-women voters and this current Khadr involvement - all of which are Taliban-related, makes me wary where the Liberals might be headed with all these.

I know this is off-topic....but this situation in Belgium is scary. We may be headed that way too.

Edited September 20, 2007 by betsy

[jbg]

I'm shocked.

This isn't the first film I've seen of the demonstration. There are a couple of more graphic films showing baton weilding thugs wading into the crowd to get these guys. The "guys" are elected parliamentary officials; one from Italy and two from Belgium. Not to mention the people rounded up afterwards just for being there. Juxtapose this against the "moderate Muslims" demonstrating and holding up signs calling for the death of "infidels" and issuing threats against Europeans (the Swedish artist is now in hiding at the advice of the police). On top of that, Belgium is attempting to make "Islamophobia" illegal. It's crazy.

I have never believed that Continental "old" Europe was a fertile place for democracy. I guess Islam + old fashioned statism/mercantalism is a deadly combination.

[jbg]

There are substantial increases in the number of ethnic Europeans moving to Australia, Canada, and the US. They don't call them "refugees" yet, but it's just a matter of time. It's odd watching an entire civilization commit suicide with it's eyes apparently tightly closed.

Remember, Europe is connected by land to Asia and Africa. North America isn't. Luckily, our neighbors, Canadians and Mexicans, accept the basic premise of the United States. Muslims do not accept the Western premise of general openness.