I'm multicultural...

[bk59]

Yes it does.

As "persuasive" as your argument is, I know from personal experience that celebrating different cultures does not automatically mean being prejudiced against others.

Talking about how things work in other countries and splitting ourselves into different races does NOTHING for us. It does nothing for our party, it doesn't help us, and to be more frank, non of us want to bore each other with the same ol' 'I'm x culture, we eat hot food'. 'Oh yeah, well we do x', 'Oh my x parents do x'.

It's silly, retarded, and i've been in much more of the converstatoins than I care to admit. It's litterally *ALL* they talk about and that's why I no longer associate with those people.

Does nothing for us? Who says it has to "do something" for us? It doesn't hurt anyone when someone talks about how they are going to celebrate a particular holiday over the weekend, or how they are going to spend time with their family making tomato sauce for the entire winter just like they used to back home in Italy. For example. While there are some people who will only talk about these things, there are many others that do not. It's just another conversation topic amongst many. Not everyone needs to talk about just the things you are interested in. Perhaps some people get bored of hearing others constantly talk about how immigration is the source of all evil in this country.

Oh and i disagree with this.

I've grown up here my whole life and find no benefit to having other cultures around me except for more authentic resturaunts. Big deal.

I don't care to divide eveyrone up and talk about practices from other countries.

That's just it - you don't have to divide everyone up in order to appreciate multiple cultures. It is possible to be Canadian and still appreciate the differences we have. And to be honest... I don't care if you see no value in having multicultural cities like Toronto. No more than you seem to care that there are people out there who can appreciate being Canadian and celebrate different backgrounds without being racist or resorting to talking about authentic restaurants.

Besides, as far as benefits go, I think that maybe (for example) businesses in Toronto see quite a lot of benefit in having something like the Carabana festival that brings in a lot of money.

Now when 1 country tries to make it's culture off everyone PRETENDING they are in another country and live another culture, then you end up with a bunch of losers trying to pretend they are something that their not. And my tax dollars funding this makes it worse.

You see, it's NOT POSSIBLE to have a real culture when everyone is told to be so different. You end up with a segretated mess of wanna-be's in denial that they are 'Canadian' which does us NO favors.

Let's be honest, you can NOT experience the Argentina culture UNLESS YOU ARE IN ARGENTINA. Having a bunch of segregated Argentinians in Toronto creates racism and is NOT the Argentinian culture. It's a false profet. It's a joke.

We're not pretending to be in another country. We're not segregating people. Segregation and racism only happen when you start looking down on other cultures or try to insulate your culture (be that Anglo or otherwise). And yes, some people do try to do that. This should be discouraged. But not at the expense of getting rid of all traces of the cultures we came from. Your push to whitewash everyone into the same culture is the type of sentiment that encourages people to insulate themselves & try to protect their culture rather than integrate into a multicultural society.

[capricorn]

Perhaps some people get bored of hearing others constantly talk about how immigration is the source of all evil in this country.

....or the weather.

[bk59]

....or the weather.

What?!? The weather is the source of all evil in this country? I say we close the borders fast & don't let any more weather in! Oh... wait... maybe you meant... never mind.

[mikedavid00]

No more than you seem to care that there are people out there who can appreciate being Canadian and celebrate different backgrounds without being racist or resorting to talking about authentic restaurants.

You cant' celebrate different peoples backgrounds in Canada without opening ourselves up to racism. It's that simple. Rergardless of what you say.

[mikedavid00]

That's just it - you don't have to divide everyone up in order to appreciate multiple cultures.

Yes you do on a public scale.

I have cultural MP3's on my compluter, I watch movies from Brazil with subtitles and have a fascination with south america. I've even seen some really good Korean movies also.

But you know what? Those are for those cultures outside of Canada. That is a personal thing. Like a taste is a personal thing. Like how you might like to cake and I don't. It's just personal taste.

If you are HERE, you are not a culture from another country becuase you are no longer living in that country so it's all just a lie and sham.

I have a Libearl Party flyer for our provincial election coming in Nov.

The person in my district is a typical Liberal nomination hijack named "Amrit Mangat". She's a Sikh. She's a female.

And her clothing on the flyers is WESTERN CLOTHING.

Well Oh my. She's not wearning her ethnic clothing.. why? BECAUSE SHE'S NOT IN INDIA. She's in CANADA. And her culture is now CANADIAN as much as she try to pretend she's in India. NOW HER MINDSET IS INDIAN MOST LIKELY, but she's still in Canada factually and here.

Culture is shallow. But it's real and you have to go OUTSIEE OUR COUNTRY to get the real thing. In argentina it's Tango Dancing on the streets and in halls.

I celebrate another culture when I go on vacation or watch a movie. I enjoy ANOTHER COUNTRIES culture. But this is Canada. this is NOT India. This is NOT Argentina. This is NOT Islamabad. This is NOT another culture.

What you are celebrating are people who moved here and are RACIST. Who GHETTOISE themselves and will not let you into their families becuase our faciast gov't tell them that it's OK.

They are not Indian. They are not Pakistani, they are immigrants residing in Canada who are racist (for the most part) and who should not have been let in here in teh first place.

AND I WILL NOT CELEBRATE THIS.

[gc1765]

So you see, me. I'm multicultural. I'm the real thing. I'm SOO multicultural that I don't even think about. I don't even notice.

Yeah, I'm sure you didn't notice the race or religion of the following people :

Example of mikedavid's multiculturalism

Example #2 of mikedavid's multiculturalism

Example #3 of mikedavid's multiculturalsim

Example #4 of mikedavid's multiculturalism

I could go on...but you get the point...

Why? Becuase we're multicultural. We're the real thing. We're colour blind and don't harp on old world idealisms.

I think what mikedavid is trying to say here is that he doesn't care what colour your skin is, or what your religion is...as long as you think and act like a "white Christian".

[jennie]

Yes you do on a public scale.

I have cultural MP3's on my compluter, I watch movies from Brazil with subtitles and have a fascination with south america. I've even seen some really good Korean movies also.

But you know what? Those are for those cultures outside of Canada. That is a personal thing. Like a taste is a personal thing. Like how you might like to cake and I don't. It's just personal taste.

If you are HERE, you are not a culture from another country becuase you are no longer living in that country so it's all just a lie and sham.

I have a Libearl Party flyer for our provincial election coming in Nov.

The person in my district is a typical Liberal nomination hijack named "Amrit Mangat". She's a Sikh. She's a female.

And her clothing on the flyers is WESTERN CLOTHING.

Well Oh my. She's not wearning her ethnic clothing.. why? BECAUSE SHE'S NOT IN INDIA. She's in CANADA. And her culture is now CANADIAN as much as she try to pretend she's in India. NOW HER MINDSET IS INDIAN MOST LIKELY, but she's still in Canada factually and here.

Culture is shallow. But it's real and you have to go OUTSIEE OUR COUNTRY to get the real thing. In argentina it's Tango Dancing on the streets and in halls.

I celebrate another culture when I go on vacation or watch a movie. I enjoy ANOTHER COUNTRIES culture. But this is Canada. this is NOT India. This is NOT Argentina. This is NOT Islamabad. This is NOT another culture.

What you are celebrating are people who moved here and are RACIST. Who GHETTOISE themselves and will not let you into their families becuase our faciast gov't tell them that it's OK.

They are not Indian. They are not Pakistani, they are immigrants residing in Canada who are racist (for the most part) and who should not have been let in here in teh first place.

AND I WILL NOT CELEBRATE THIS.

Well, I am sure your multi-cultural Canadian 'friends' would love you now!

[mikedavid00]

Well, I am sure your multi-cultural Canadian 'friends' would love you now!

Yes If you asked them they would most likely consider themselves Canadian first. I choose not to associate myself with racist people anymore. And ye those racist people do not have white skin. On the contrary for sure.

[gc1765]

Well Oh my. She's not wearning her ethnic clothing.. why? BECAUSE SHE'S NOT IN INDIA. She's in CANADA. And her culture is now CANADIAN as much as she try to pretend she's in India. NOW HER MINDSET IS INDIAN MOST LIKELY, but she's still in Canada factually and here.

Can you please define what "Canadian culture" is? Thanks.

[mikedavid00]

Example of mikedavid's multiculturalism

"I look at the highschools and see token ethnic groups abound. Pakistani's one side, Asians on the other, Sikh's on the other, and Jamaicans on the other." (this is me saying that I disagree with racism)

Example #2 of mikedavid's multiculturalism

"They will discriminate, be predjudice, and exclude you if you aren't the same nationality. You won't get into their circles of friendship...I guess my problem is that I'm against racism and prejudice. I feel everyone should be treated fairly regardless of their colour or immagined culture."

Example #3 of mikedavid's multiculturalsim

"The immigration system should be quite simple; if an employer proves he cannot hire a Canadian, and sponsors you in, then you are coming. If not, then keep trying and stay out. If you prove to stay employed, then you can stay."

Example #4 of mikedavid's multiculturalism

"Direct relatives died. A wedding is fake - it's superficial. It's a party. It's 50% divorce.

A life is real. It was real. Those people who died were real. "

[capricorn]

Can you please define what "Canadian culture" is? Thanks.

gc1765, permit me to put my 5 cents in. Sadly, there isn't any. Consciously or not, successive Canadian governments and the federal bureaucracy have done everything to hinder the development of a Canadian culture. IMO this is a direct result of Canada embracing multiculturalism. Here's a glaring example. Elections Canada prints a voters guide in 26 languages, yes 26.

http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?sectio...;textonly=false

We surely don't share a common language. The government and the bureaucracy confirm this all the time. Sure, in some parts of Canada English and French have significant numbers. Yet, language across Canada is hodgepodge.

Now, if voters can access voting instructions in their preferred language, why wouldn't they expect all other federal documents, i.e. laws, hansard, court proceedings, correspondence etc., in their preferred language? Is this not what a "mosaic" is supposed to look like?

And we wonder why government in Canada is so expensive.

[gc1765]

gc1765, permit me to put my 5 cents in. Sadly, there isn't any. Consciously or not, successive Canadian governments and the federal bureaucracy have done everything to hinder the development of a Canadian culture. IMO this is a direct result of Canada embracing multiculturalism. Here's a glaring example. Elections Canada prints a voters guide in 26 languages, yes 26.

http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?sectio...;textonly=false

We surely don't share a common language. The government and the bureaucracy confirm this all the time. Sure, in some parts of Canada English and French have significant numbers. Yet, language across Canada is hodgepodge.

Now, if voters can access voting instructions in their preferred language, why wouldn't they expect all other federal documents, i.e. laws, hansard, court proceedings, correspondence etc., in their preferred language? Is this not what a "mosaic" is supposed to look like?

And we wonder why government in Canada is so expensive.

Aside from speaking the same language, what do you think Canadian culture should be?

[capricorn]

Aside from speaking the same language, what do you think Canadian culture should be?

There is no Canadian culture nor can there ever be. What I think is therefore moot.

Imagine this. Take a dart board. Now apply swatches of different types of material to represent all the ethnic groups that now make up the country. Then stand back and throw the dart. Wherever the dart lands is "a" culture within Canada. We are multicultural so there cannot be only one culture.

As fact, “multiculturalism” in Canada refers to the presence and persistence of diverse racial and ethnic minorities who define themselves as different and who wish to remain so. Ideologically, multiculturalism consists of a relatively coherent set of ideas and ideals pertaining to the celebration of Canada’s cultural diversity. Multiculturalism at the policy level is structured around the management of diversity through formal initiatives in the federal, provincial and municipal domains. Finally, multiculturalism is the process by which racial and ethnic minorities compete to obtain support from central authorities for the achievement of certain goals and aspirations.

snip.....

The fear that the multiculturalism policy is promoting too much diversity at the expense of unity has been voiced increasingly in recent years. Critics say the policy is divisive because it emphasizes what is different, rather than the values that are Canadian. Canadian culture and symbols, it is felt, are being discarded in the effort to accommodate other cultures. On the other hand, defenders of Canada’s approach to multiculturalism argue that it encourages integration by telling immigrants they do not have to choose between preserving their cultural heritage and participating in Canadian society. Rather, they can do both.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/936-e.htm

Here is a list of the ethnic groups in the City of Ottawa. Many receive municipal funding to nurture their cultures and keep them alive.

http://www.artsoe.ca/AHD/heritage_e.php?in...yCategoryID=138

With the high level of government support given to cultural groups to thrive and pursue their agendas, IMO division between cultures will deepen over time.

[M.Dancer]

Here is a list of the ethnic groups in the City of Ottawa. Many receive municipal funding to nurture their cultures and keep them alive.

http://www.artsoe.ca/AHD/heritage_e.php?in...yCategoryID=138

Brian Armstrong

address / adresse: 2832-H Cedarwood Dr.

Ottawa, Ontario K1V 7R1

contact / contact: Brian Armstrong

telephone / téléphone: 613-523-9702

email / courriel: [email protected]

I am a Brian Armstrongist

Some might receive funding, but I bet there are a many on that list that receive no funding at all.

[mikedavid00]

Aside from speaking the same language, what do you think Canadian culture should be?

We can't decide that. It's up to the massess to decide what it's going to be. What makes Brazil are it's people. It's gov't are it's own people.

That's what makes a culture.

It is not possible for a culture ot be based off people pretending they live in other countries becuase those cultures are not authentic and are not real culture. If you TRY to get this, you'll only end up with the most racially segregated country in the world and will be left with a culture of 'racism'.

That's what Canada is, it's a culture of 'racists'.

The racsists comprising mostly of the xenephobic, backwards people who come to Canada each year.

Man you should have heard the CBC radio today when they reflected back to the old Canada. A Canada that had a culture at that time. You should have heard the stories of Terry Fox doing his run accross Canada and how we all came together as a community to support him.

Those days are over. There is no greater community anymore beause people here will not talk or associate with you due to your skin colour and racial reasons which is silly and obsurd.

Canada should be a great country, not one built of racism.

[gc1765]

We can't decide that. It's up to the massess to decide what it's going to be.

So if the "masses" decide that wearing a turban or worshiping allah are part of Canada's culture, you think we should all conform to that?

[M.Dancer]

So if the "masses" decide that wearing a turban or worshiping allah are part of Canada's culture, you think we should all conform to that?

Canadain culture is right under our noses for the better part of the year. I believe it was the great Canadien songster, Gilles Vigneault who sang, "Mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est l'hiver..."

Many things make a culture. Language is one. MikeD clumsily suiggests that Brazil's culture is because of it's people. Quite true. Brazil is of course a nation of immigrants, but what sets Brazil aside from everywhere else in South America or for that matter, anywhere is it's language.

Geography is also an influence on culture. Would Texans be still Texans is instead of the Dusty Plains they were smack dab in the fjiords? Ride'm CowBjorn!

And of course climate is a key factor influencing culture. Winter is as Candian as it gets. We make choices during the cold months. We can stay inside nice and warm, close to the edge ready to blow due to cabin fever, or we can put on our gollashes, our mukluks, skidoo boots, parkas and head outside. We skate on canals, lakes and rinks(and deke out the goalie) , we toboggan donw hills, skitch rides on the back of buses, drink cariboo and eat beaver tails at carnival.

In the warmer months we swat flies, scratch bibbits, head to the cottage, camp at the cabin, summer in the country. We fish for trout but end up with barbout while searching for the last deck of cigs......and sometimes on weekends, we do dick all.

Edited September 12, 2007 by M.Dancer

[Leafless]

So if the "masses" decide that wearing a turban or worshiping allah are part of Canada's culture, you think we should all conform to that?

Ethnic Canadians are a minority in Canada and cannot be considered part of the majority culture, if they wish to deviate culturally, from the culture of the majority.

It is the 'Charter' that betrayed and is destroying the majority culture and is allowing direct cultural opposition from minorities including Quebec, who feel they do not have to integrate and do have the legal right to betray the majority culture, IOW, take away the majority's country and form their own.

How many Canada's are we going to have in Canada.

A Pandora's Box is in the making.

[mikedavid00]

Many things make a culture. Language is one. MikeD clumsily suiggests that Brazil's culture is because of it's people. Quite true. Brazil is of course a nation of immigrants, but what sets Brazil aside from everywhere else in South America or for that matter, anywhere is it's language.

I disagree.

Language is only 1 part of culture despite what Quebec wants you to believe.

You can go to one of the many English speaking parts of the world including Jamaica, Africa and you will find the cuture is not even close to Canada's.

Cuture has to do more with a behavior or mindset IMO.

But it's COLLECTIVE.

You cannot have a culture if it's not collective. The only collective culture Canada really has is to hate the US. That's about it. And that's not really a culture, it's just a collective opinion.

Canada does have a culture. I was a kid. I remmber Terry Fox, I remember the Montreal Canadians, I remember Wayne Gretzky and playing hocky on the street. I remember going ot the sugar bush.

We let too many into Canada too fast and this caused segregation with a 'screw you' from those people coming here.

See Xul as an example. And We encrouage that.

We make sure that we don't love ourselves as a society of people. That is even evident from some of the wackos here on this forum that place a childs life in Pakistan equally valuable to that of a Canadian childs life.

Or is it, that you guys think Pakistan *has* become Canada?

Think about it.

That is a false culture. It breaks the definition of what a culture is.

[gc1765]

Ethnic Canadians are a minority in Canada and cannot be considered part of the majority culture, if they wish to deviate culturally, from the culture of the majority.

Someday, what we now consider "minorities" may become the majority. If and when that happens, should we conform to the culture of this new majority?

[betsy]

Someday, what we now consider "minorities" may become the majority. If and when that happens, should we conform to the culture of this new majority?

When that happens, do we have any choice...without going into war?

[mikedavid00]

Someday, what we now consider "minorities" may become the majority. If and when that happens, should we conform to the culture of this new majority?

But that's just it though. they don't have a real culture becuase they are living in Canada. They have a fragmented, self beneficial idealism of what they think their culture is. That inevideably takes away from the majority culture and kills it.

If anyone wants memories of how Canada used to be, all you would have to do is listen the CBC radio today when the guy was on talking about Terry fox and then people calling up. That made world news and back then Canada had an identiy and culture.

It's been killed since then to pave the way for minorities to wave their flags around from countries that are not Canada which eventuallly promoted racial segragation and now political franchice has been lost to these people. That's what really concerns me. Few here can see 20 years down the road if this continues.

We REALLY WILL have Canada's within Canada. Borders and all. And it will be the minorities who pioneer this.

Please watch this. it's all I ask:

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/23745/thenational/a...apt1-062807.wmv

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/23745/thenational/a...ski2-062807.wmv - part 2

The Sikh's are sueing the CBC over this report. Just watch it and pay attnetion to Tarak Fattah (who I've met and shook hands with) and listen to what he's saying.

Do you think this is enhances Canada? It's BS and if there were actually work permits determining our immigration system NONE OF THESE PEOPLE WOULD BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Edited September 12, 2007 by mikedavid00

[guyser]

I disagree.

You can go to one of the many English speaking parts of the world including Jamaica, Africa and you will find the cuture is not even close to Canada's.

Better check them facts again mikeD. Jamaica , and Jamaicans speak a patois that encompasses not only english but french as well, in equal parts IIRC. An english that I dare say, most Canadians could not understand.

In Africa, English is a minority language , far behind French and even further behind than Arabic, not to mention Afrikaans, and African Traditional.

Since , in Canada , these latter languages are not spoken by more than a handful , well of course their culture is not ours.

But it's COLLECTIVE.

You cannot have a culture if it's not collective. The only collective culture Canada really has is to hate the US. That's about it. And that's not really a culture, it's just a collective opinion.

Contradiction noted . Makes any point you were attempting to make moot.

That is of course beside the point that Canadian culture is hating the US. What an asinine thing to say. We do not hate anyone, not me nor anyone of intelligence that I know. Perhaps your friends dont fit that demo, but most Canadians are in my camp, not yours. So collectively, you are wrong.

Canada does have a culture. I was a kid. I remmber Terry Fox, I remember the Montreal Canadians, I remember Wayne Gretzky and playing hocky on the street. I remember going ot the sugar bush.

Icons are not culture , but culture includes icons. Do not confuse the two.

We let too many into Canada too fast and this caused segregation with a 'screw you' from those people coming here.

See Xul as an example. And We encrouage that.

Honestly, I imagine if given a vote , most Canadians would say keep Xul, throw mikeD out. You know why? He makes honest informed posts. His knowledge of China and its history , as evident in his bantering (and I might add schooling) with bushcheney in a thread today was impressive. English is his second language, maybe even third, but his command of the english language is far superior than your command of your first language. Thats not my opinion by the way, that is self evident proof.

We make sure that we don't love ourselves as a society of people.

You and your misinformed buddy leafless are the only ones who hate this society. Well maybe Posit too but he virtually acknowledges that he isnt canadian.

That is even evident from some of the wackos here on this forum that place a childs life in Pakistan equally valuable to that of a Canadian childs life.

They are equal. Shame on you to not know that.

Or is it, that you guys think Pakistan *has* become Canada?

Oh, most educated people know that this country is not Pakistan. Language , food, colour, and the fact that Taliban members and Bin Laden dont roam Mississauga's Square One looking for trouble.

Think about it.

Yes well, perhaps the good doctor will self diagnose, evidently that has yet to occur.

[bk59]

You cant' celebrate different peoples backgrounds in Canada without opening ourselves up to racism. It's that simple. Rergardless of what you say.

What moronic logic. By that logic every time you praise Canada's past culture you are telling everyone that you are a racist. Wake up. It is quite possible to celebrate your ethnic culture without being racist.

What you are celebrating are people who moved here and are RACIST. Who GHETTOISE themselves and will not let you into their families becuase our faciast gov't tell them that it's OK.

They are not Indian. They are not Pakistani, they are immigrants residing in Canada who are racist (for the most part) and who should not have been let in here in teh first place.

AND I WILL NOT CELEBRATE THIS.

By assuming that most immigrants wish to "ghettoise" themselves and saying that they are mostly racist shows only one thing - that you are racist.

It is not possible for a culture ot be based off people pretending they live in other countries becuase those cultures are not authentic and are not real culture. If you TRY to get this, you'll only end up with the most racially segregated country in the world and will be left with a culture of 'racism'.

That's what Canada is, it's a culture of 'racists'.

The racsists comprising mostly of the xenephobic, backwards people who come to Canada each year.

As compared to a homegrown racist like yourself who declares that all immigrants are backwards and racist?

People do not pretend they live in other countries. Many are celebrating things like their religion or heritage. They do that while living here in Canada as Canadians.

Man you should have heard the CBC radio today when they reflected back to the old Canada. A Canada that had a culture at that time. You should have heard the stories of Terry Fox doing his run accross Canada and how we all came together as a community to support him.

So Canada used to have culture, but doesn't any more? What about celebrations like Scottish Highland Games that take place all over Ontario (and elsewhere I am sure)? These have gone on for years. Is this cultural celebration racist? How come those types of celebrations did not destroy Canada's culture during the time of Terry Fox, and yet celebrations of other ethnicities / religions are, according to you, destroying Canada's culture today?

Please watch this. it's all I ask:

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/23745/thenational/a...apt1-062807.wmv

http://www.cbc.ca/mrl3/23745/thenational/a...ski2-062807.wmv - part 2

The Sikh's are sueing the CBC over this report. Just watch it and pay attnetion to Tarak Fattah (who I've met and shook hands with) and listen to what he's saying.

Do you think this is enhances Canada? It's BS and if there were actually work permits determining our immigration system NONE OF THESE PEOPLE WOULD BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Please do not confuse extremism with cultural celebration. This report is about Sikh separatists not Sikh culture. In fact, it is even pointed out in those clips that these extremists do not speak for the community as a whole. There is nothing wrong with having a parade that celebrates the Sikh culture. The problem, as shown in the report, was when that celebration got hijacked to glorify violence and mass murderers.

[gc1765]

But that's just it though. they don't have a real culture becuase they are living in Canada. They have a fragmented, self beneficial idealism of what they think their culture is. That inevideably takes away from the majority culture and kills it.

That makes absolutely no sense, and the rest of your post has nothing to do with the question I asked.