Worldview of the 'Rapture-Ready' Christians

[cybercoma]

I believe you hold Christianity in low regard...

At least you hold all religions in disdain...

strange... I'm sure you had a point, but maybe I'm too stupid to find it.

[betsy]

odd because I recall scriblett acknowledging she had read the "left behind" fanatics book.

Betsy, pretty sure, you did also???

And there it is, the rapture , there, in those books, so for either of you to be claiming, no knowledge is a little odd to say the least,

I cannot speak for Scribblett.

But I, however can honestly say I have not read the book you're spouting about! I challenge you to prove where I said that I did read that book.

I know telling lies and twisting of facts seem to come so easy with you.....but don't you be telling or maliciously insinuating lies about me on this board and expect it to go unchallenged!

I hope I make myself clear.

oh you make yourself loud and clear, though I can never quite figure out what, you go on and on about.

see you quoted me above

Betsy, pretty sure, you did also???

see those question marks?

That means I am questioning, so I am not assuming, not stating you had, but questioning on recall.

Learn to read, okay?

did I make myself clear?

Yes, very clear. You've made it clear that you, yourself do not understand the implications of what you've posted. Nor do you understand the meaning of some words!

Yes, you put that first as a question ...and yet you followed it up with this, in bold statements:

And there it is, the rapture , there, in those books, so for either of you to be claiming, no knowledge is a little odd to say the least, that said, Pick up a paper, a book, any news site and there they are! INC. FOX news!!. You can look at that on line, and surely both of you do.

The rapture ready christans!

So it really stretches credulity, to read either of you make the claims you do.

Do you understand this statement?

but don't you be telling or maliciously insinuating lies about me on this board and expect it to go unchallenged!

Learn to read, okay? And use the dictionary if some words are not clear to you.

Instead of embarrassingly squirming out evertime you put your foot in your mouth, at least have the spine to stand up to your mistake. We all make fools of ourselves every now and then....although in your case, it does seem more often.

But anyway, who knows maybe it's not your fault. In the end science might prove it's in your genes.

Edited August 1, 2007 by betsy

[scribblet]

Sheeesh!

I'll say LOL I did read a couple of those Left Behind books after hearing about them on the other board, I wasn't impressed, plus they are fiction, nothing else. Same as the Da Vinci Code only that's written better and definitely more exciting.

Sure like you Betsy I was aware of phrophecy and doom and gloom etc. but this push to denigrate that part of a religious belief is all part and parcel of the Christaphobia which has been manifesting itself in the last few years. All of which, stems from the anti Bush, anti U.S. phobias.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, sharia law is creeping in, as more universities give in to religious demands by other groups.

[betsy]

Sheeesh!

I'll say LOL I did read a couple of those Left Behind books after hearing about them on the other board, I wasn't impressed, plus they are fiction, nothing else. Same as the Da Vinci Code only that's written better and definitely more exciting.

Sure like you Betsy I was aware of phrophecy and doom and gloom etc. but this push to denigrate that part of a religious belief is all part and parcel of the Christaphobia which has been manifesting itself in the last few years. All of which, stems from the anti Bush, anti U.S. phobias.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, sharia law is creeping in, as more universities give in to religious demands by other groups.

Tell you what, I just picked up a movie titled "Left Behind" - because of this thread (read it from Jefferiah's post)....I'll watch it tonight. I love a good thriller - and no, I didn't bother watching Da Vinci Codes because of the bad reviews.

As for the Revelation, I remember my dad telling me about the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse...that kind of stuff. But sometimes I come across movies that deals with prophecy or doomsday stuff.....like the sign that women will be barren, etc...but I can't tell what is pure fiction and contrived from what's really taken from the Bible.

But there's something interesting happening lately wrt Christians...maybe I'm just imagining it or just being hopeful. But it does look like there is a sudden swing towards faith and belief again. I guess I better put another topic about it.

Edited August 1, 2007 by betsy

[kuzadd]

Do you understand this statement?

but don't you be telling or maliciously insinuating lies about me on this board and expect it to go unchallenged!

I don't think you understand that word, you better go look it up, because I insinuated nothing wrt yourself.

I questioned. Big difference.

While your looking up "insinuation", look up" question"/ing, or "enquire", then make note of the difference.

[jefferiah]

There is no need to bring the "well at least they are not like radical Islam" argument into this thread. Kuzadd is raising a good point. I do not know if Kuzadd is an atheist or perhaps even a disgusted Christian, but nonetheless. If I were an atheist and I read an article about these people it would turn me off from the whole deal pretty quick.

Kuzadd made an interesting point that despite the existence of radical Islam there does not seem to be any of this large mass marketing of junk. First off, I would like to say that perhaps there are certain mass marketed products which do not possess the phoniness others do. Sometimes a good thing does well on the market. But there is an overwhelming amount of this Christian marketing which is very corny and is not unlike the watching people with big hoop earrings and burning incense working on the psychic network. The reason I believe this is not found in Islam is perhaps because it is a very North American thing. Advertising, infomercials, etc. I remember that Scientology employed this hokum for a while with the Dianetics books. To some extent the same has been done with some eastern traditions as well. Tai Chi, Yoga, etc---for $29.95, and they are not taught by some mystic but by some marketing guru.

As for this group, I still haven't watched the video. I get really lazy about actually seeing these videos people post on here. But I think I get the idea. Even in the belief in apocalypse and Rapture (which is not always necessarily something all prophecy people believe) there are many different camps. A dangerous thing for Christians (while maintaining the freedom to be active politically) is to get into some non-Christian ideology on top of their Christianity or incorporated with it. I don't know how to explain this. I remember reading somewhere about people urging Christians to keep their Christianity out of the ballot box. I don't think this is right because people vote their conscience and so will Christians. However I think many Christians are guilty of a political Christianity, whereby they add some specific political ideology to the Gospel and focus less on the faith and on God and more on world politics and agendas.

[kuzadd]

I do not know if Kuzadd is an atheist or perhaps even a disgusted Christian,

disgusted christian, is the more accurate description.

I was raised Roman Catholic and attended Catholic school, ya know the kind that have saint's names??

lol!

Overall I am entirely disgusted with alot of religious "going's on"

MY disgust at these "christians" is IMO, don't get offended, they are more reminiscent of "satanists" then christians, striving for war, instead of peace, division instead of cohesion.

Working towards a goal of there own selfish, sick beliefs as opposed to more traditional christian activities.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5502785

Interesting book and the author says:

Evangelical: Religious Right Has Distorted the Faith

Listen to this story... by Linda Wertheimer

Scroll down to read an excerpt from Thy Kingdom Come: An Evangelical's Lament.

Randall Balmer has written several books. He says he expects his latest to get him in a fair amount of trouble with the evangelical community.

"I don't find much that I recognize as Christian" in the religious right, says Balmer, a professor of religion at Barnard College, Columbia University and contributing editor to Christianity Today.

"They have taken something that is lovely and redemptive and turned it into something that is ugly and retributive," Balmer says.

He argues that modern evangelicals have abandoned the spirit of their movement, which was founded in 19th-century activism on issues that helped those on the fringes of society: abolition, women's suffrage and universal education.

"I don't find any correlation in the agenda of the religious right today," Balmer says.

There is an interesting excerpt from the book there about the religious right/political cojoinment.

[jefferiah]

Nonetheless Christianity and most religions are quite conservative, but that does not necessarily mean a political conservatism. A moral conservatism I guess. There are also left leaning Christians who attempt to eradicate the definition of sin or certain sins and say that calling something a sin is judgemental, mean and close-minded. While those people, who are quick to point out another's sins and condemn them and feel themselves superior, may be judgemental, simply defining certain things as sin is not.

Jesus was forgiving and merciful, but His standard of what was sinful was much stricter than the law of Moses, aside from the intense ritual obligations. When he helped the adulteress he was not promoting her swinging lifestyle, but being merciful. He told her to sin no more. And she was seriously repentant. And he pointed out that her accusers were also guilty of sin. This does not make sin a-ok.

All of this is IMHO

Edited August 1, 2007 by jefferiah

[sharkman]

I do not know if Kuzadd is an atheist or perhaps even a disgusted Christian,

Overall I am entirely disgusted with alot of religious "going's on"

MY disgust at these "christians" is IMO, don't get offended, they are more reminiscent of "satanists" then christians, striving for war, instead of peace, division instead of cohesion.

Kuzadd, if you want to learn about a group of people, you are going to need to do more than read expose's by authors who have an axe to grind. By only reading about Rapturites or some other sects, your perceptions become quite skewed. However, if this makes you happy, by all means keep digging up these stories from fringe websites.

[kuzadd]

Nonetheless Christianity and most religions are quite conservative, but that does not necessarily mean a political conservatism. A moral conservatism I guess. There are also left leaning Christians who attempt to eradicate the definition of sin or certain sins and say that calling something a sin is judgemental, mean and close-minded. While those people, who are quick to point out another's sins and condemn them and feel themselves superior, may be judgemental, simply defining certain things as sin is not.

Jesus was forgiving and merciful, but His standard of what was sinful was much stricter than the law of Moses, aside from the intense ritual obligations. When he helped the adulteress he was not promoting her swinging lifestyle, but being merciful. He told her to sin no more. And she was seriously repentant. And he pointed out that her accusers were also guilty of sin. This does not make sin a-ok.

All of this is IMHO

Are most religions conservative, I don't think so, but since we are speaking of the Fundamentalist Evangelical Rapture Ready crowd specifically. I am going with that.

The author who has studied this group thinks they have been hijacked into conservatism for political reasons, I tend to agree.

Religious "leaders" dragging there followers, and being coopted or cooperating or succumbing to specific political agenda's for the benefit of some, is nothing new.

It's just a dam shame no one has learned from previous mistakes.

WRT the excessive rapture ready products???

Isn't it foolish to buy all this junk if you really believe the end is nigh?

isn't it hypocritical for all these religious marketers to promote this junk if the end is nigh?

The scam factor in the whole thing should be a bloody embarrasment to these people, but it's not!

It makes me think of this "there is a sucker born every minute", and they are all in this group of christians, buying there, (likely made in china) junk, for the end times, when if the end times are coming, why do you need all that junk. Are they all going to wear there "rapture ready" tee's and hats, when Jesus comes?

[kuzadd]

Kuzadd, if you want to learn about a group of people, you are going to need to do more than read expose's by authors who have an axe to grind. By only reading about Rapturites or some other sects, your perceptions become quite skewed. However, if this makes you happy, by all means keep digging up these stories from fringe websites.

I am well versed in enough christianity, thanks. In fact having 3 bibles in my own home, and having gone through numerous catholic rituals, don't assume.

By only reading about Rapturites or some other sects, your perceptions become quite skewed.

LOL! Like your incessant focus on Muslims, all bad , all the time??

My friend, you take a good look at your own "skewed perceptions"

mine are just fine, thanks!

[buffycat]

Just for fun: Rapture Ready

ack.

Now - sharkman it is not only the 'fringe' who is writing about these folk. As I posted earlier there was recent piece in FOX News (hardly fringe but IMO hardly news either - but hey)

If you google rapture christians you can find many more MAINSTREAM sources commenting on these End Times followers. It is not just a few small groups - this is what is alarming.

[FascistLibertarian]

Christians have always thought the end of the world was coming. If you read the Bible it seems to me that J was talking about it all happening within his follwers lifetime, Paul etc all were prob suprised when they all started dying and nothing happened.

They already believe in religion, why is this any different. Its just another illogical view.......

[kuzadd]

FascistLibertarian'

Christians have always thought the end of the world was coming.

That is so true!

They already believe in religion, why is this any different. Its just another illogical view.......

This also is true!

My concern is with the political clout this group wields, anti-peace/pro-war in the ME, extreme hatred of Muslims, etc., I can't see any good of an extremist agenda, yielding political power, to bring about, a result only they desire.

That and the fact, I just can't figure out why they buy so much "rapture" junk?

It makes zero sense. I mean a fool and his money will soon go separate ways, and, if they want to waste money so be it! Makes'em look even more foolish, then they already make themselves look (see video)

But I just can't grasp the concept of it.

Edited August 2, 2007 by kuzadd

[jefferiah]

Just for fun: Rapture Ready

ack.

Now - sharkman it is not only the 'fringe' who is writing about these folk. As I posted earlier there was recent piece in FOX News (hardly fringe but IMO hardly news either - but hey)

If you google rapture christians you can find many more MAINSTREAM sources commenting on these End Times followers. It is not just a few small groups - this is what is alarming.

Yes but belief in the rapture itself and in the end times is not always radical.