Worldview of the 'Rapture-Ready' Christians

kuzadd · July 28, 2007

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenth...th_b_57826.html

On July 16, I attended Christians United for Israel's annual Washington-Israel Summit. Founded by San Antonio-based megachurch pastor John Hagee, CUFI has added the grassroots muscle of the Christian right to the already potent Israel lobby. Hagee and his minions have forged close ties with the Bush White House and members of Congress from Sen. Joseph Lieberman to Sen. John McCain. In its call for a unilateral military attack on Iran and the expansion of Israeli territory, CUFI has found unwavering encouragement from traditional pro-Israel groups like AIPAC and elements of the Israeli government.

But CUFI has an ulterior agenda: its support for Israel derives from the belief of Hagee and his flock that Jesus will return to Jerusalem after the battle of Armageddon and cleanse the earth of evil. In the end, all the non-believers - Jews, Muslims, Hindus, mainline Christians, etc. - must convert or suffer the torture of eternal damnation. Over a dozen CUFI members eagerly revealed to me their excitement at the prospect of Armageddon occurring tomorrow. Among the rapture ready was Republican Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay. None of this seemed to matter to Lieberman, who delivered a long sermon hailing Hagee as nothing less than a modern-day Moses. Lieberman went on to describe Hagee's flock as "even greater than the multitude Moses commanded."

T

hroughout CUFI's Israel Summit, videographer Thomas Shomaker and I were hounded by PR agents seeking to prevent us from interviewing attendees about the End Times. The conference, we were told, was about "one message" - evangelical Christians supporting Israel. We were instructed to only interview CUFI leaders capable of sticking to the talking point that their support for Israel has, as Hagee declared, "nothing to do with the End Times." But I was forbidden from asking Hagee about statements he made in his book, "Jerusalem Countdown," that appeared to blame Jews for their own persecution. After doing just that during a press conference, I was removed from the conference by off-duty DC cops summoned by members of Hagee's family.

I have covered the Christian right intensely for over four years. During this time, I attended dozens of Christian right conferences, regularly monitored movement publications and radio shows, and interviewed scores of its key leaders. I have never witnessed any spectacle as politically extreme, outrageous, or bizarre as the one Christians United for Israel produced last week in Washington. See for yourself.

go to the link and watch the video, of the absolute brainwashed fanatics, it is frightful that the irrationally indoctrinated, are able to have as much political clout as they are.

kuzadd · July 28, 2007

I also found the comment section quite interesting

These are simple, manipulable people. They're programmed to destroy their brothers and sisters and then finally, destroy themselves.
Anyone who will turn on their own can't be kept around afterwards, they've proven they can't be trusted.

The Devil is clever, and patient. He'll take generations to pull a plan off. He uses stupid people against themselves. They become his little demons. Easy to spot, they're violent by nature - the opposite of Christ's philosophy.

and this one also

They want to finish the job Hitler started -- removing Judaism from the face of the earth -- and they imagine that a nice Jew, Jesus, is going to do it for them. They are a curse on the face of Christianity, a danger to Jews, capable of starting a war in the Middle East if they feel it will bring Armageddon closer and just the kind of offal that makes Christianity ugly to Jews who are not sucking up.

kimmy · July 28, 2007

That's a fascinating video. Much appreciated.

-k

kuzadd · July 29, 2007

Just waiting for there "reward"!

Like all good fanatics, I guess.

kuzadd · July 29, 2007

That's a fascinating video. Much appreciated.
-k

what did you find fascinating about it?

just wondering?

buffycat · July 29, 2007

Radical Christians hoping for Armageddon?!

Say it ain't so?! I thought they were a myth created by the evil 'left'!!

kuzadd · July 29, 2007

Radical Christians hoping for Armageddon?!
Say it ain't so?! I thought they were a myth created by the evil 'left'!!

Nope , apparently, they are not a myth, though they propogate a rather fanatical, frightful myth, delusional, etc.,

Clearly the Radical christians are self-made fanatics, with alot of help from religious leaders.

Note: they are waiting for there reward?

Note: in the film there dialogue wrt to the Jewish people.

Edited July 29, 2007 by kuzadd

buffycat · July 29, 2007

WRT their beliefs concerning the Jews, that Jesus will be accepted by them as their saviour and all those who reject Him will suffer for eternity, well from my point of view I'd be rather careful about dealing with these Blood lusting Xtain types who profess the End Time mythology. Seems to me though that both groups (the radical Zionists and the Fundie Christians are mutually using one another).

kuzadd · July 29, 2007

WRT their beliefs concerning the Jews, that Jesus will be accepted by them as their saviour and all those who reject Him will suffer for eternity, well from my point of view I'd be rather careful about dealing with these Blood lusting Xtain types who profess the End Time mythology. Seems to me though that both groups (the radical Zionists and the Fundie Christians are mutually using one another).

did you watch the video?

some of those people? the stuff they said??

Just let them speak for themselves and show there true colours!

Edited July 29, 2007 by kuzadd

buffycat · July 29, 2007

Yeah I watched the video - I'm always astounded at the way these sorts of folks behave - it's groupthink without limit.

Both groups are of the type who see only black and white, us or them, they miss all the true shades and colours out of their self inflicted fears and biases. I don't think any of them are truly spiritual either - the religion being used as a justification to oppress others isn't exactly a decent thing to be doing (or so I thought ).

But heck, it's a common theme in ALL major religious doctorine. (Keeping in mind that IMV religion and spirituality are not quite the same thing).

Anyways - their KOOKS!!!

kuzadd · July 30, 2007

http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnwell/barnwell71.html

"Once you begin thinking of the implications involved, you begin to see why this doctrine is so dangerous to everybody. Dispensationalists seem to have a preoccupation with war.[/b] In fact, right now, dispensationalist mega-church pastor John Hagee is preaching that a war with Iran is not only the right thing to do, but is prophetically inevitable. Apparently, Bible prophecy demands a showdown with Iran. You see, if you aren’t on the side of war, then you aren’t on the side of God".(war equals peace DOUBLESPEAK)
"Talk of peace now becomes irrelevant. It’s God’s will that we be militarists. In fairness, not all dispensationalists are militarists. Our own Laurence Vance is an example. But they are in a definite minority. The prevailing worldview of dispensationalism glorifies war, militarism, and the State."

Like good little fascists!

The dispensationalist view of Daniel 9:27 provides some troubling implications as well. They don’t care that tearing down the al-Aqsa mosque would result in a regional war and cause all sorts of global distress. This would not be a bad thing in their minds. They believe that it was all foreordained and is a sign that the end of the world would be soon upon us.

Such evil deeds could religion prompt.

Lucretius, De Rerum Natura

Also, if you buy into these interpretations, talks of peace in the Middle East are futile. Jews and Muslims must continue killing each other at high rates. And who will be the one bringing peace to the Middle East in this popular end-time paradigm? Not Jesus, but the Antichrist. Therefore, talk of Middle East peace during this current "dispensation" is not from Jesus, but the Antichrist. When dispensationalists hear talk of peace summits or treaties in the Middle East, they assume it must have evil origins and be antichristic. If that’s the cause, why bother trying to make the world a better place? All we need to do is be good Christians and wait for our ticket out of this earth and make way for the Antichrist.

"The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad."

Friedrich Nietzsche

Dispensationalists are numerous and popular. Well-connected preachers like Hagee have political connections. Dispensational preachers and lobbyists have the ear of the White House and are directly trying to influence foreign policy based on their very questionable theological views, which, by the way, are less than 200 years old. This is more than just a quirky theology that doesn’t affect those who do not hold it. Dispensationalists want to bring about world events that would have catastrophic implications for other Christians and for non-Christians.

If they are correct, why should any of us bother trying to make the world a better place? Dispensationalists get very annoyed at this question. They say, "Final peace on earth will only come through Christ!" They basically insist Christians trying to do good in the world should only focus on "spiritual things." Trying to change social institutions for the better is futile and presumptuous. Apparently the only two options are handing the world over to Satan or believing that humans can do everything in their own strength. Not much room for nuance here.

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.

In this "faith" insanity is the rule

Ironically, many dispensationalists are involved in the Religious Right movement and want to stem abortions, ban gay marriage and make America more Christian. But at the same time they believe in a theology that says the world can only get worse, that there’s nothing any of us can do about it, and that it’s about to get so bad Christians are going to be taken off of the earth. If the ship is irreversibly sinking, why try and patch up the leaks?

Was thinking about the term "tin foil hat" used by those who indicate they are of the "right" persuasion.

I will say this, If anything is indicative of "tin foil hat" wearing it is all the preceding and proceeding nonsense!

war is peace,

rapture,

left behind,

turmoil in the ME, rather then peace,

Insane hatred of a group of people (Muslim's)

forced conversions or death

I do notice how nicely this all plays into political agenda's at this time, as in WW2.

Also notice how nicely this ties in to the christian industrial complex

Edited July 30, 2007 by kuzadd

kuzadd · July 30, 2007

cybercoma?

I thought you may appreciate this little video, you around?

kuzadd · July 30, 2007

Yeah I watched the video - I'm always astounded at the way these sorts of folks behave - it's groupthink without limit.

Anyways - their KOOKS!!!

Groupthink is a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing, and evaluating ideas. During Groupthink, members of the group avoid promoting viewpoints outside the comfort zone of consensus thinking. A variety of motives for this may exist such as a desire to avoid being seen as foolish, or a desire to avoid embarrassing or angering other members of the group. Groupthink may cause groups to make hasty, irrational decisions, where individual doubts are set aside, for fear of upsetting the group’s balance.

groupthink, good descriptive term!

I like it!!!!

Melanie_ · July 30, 2007

I went to a play at the Fringe Festival yesterday, called "Jesus in Montana: Adventures in a Doomsday Cult". Basically a true story about the author/actor's experiences with a small cult in the early 80's - another way of illustrating the mindset described in the OP (although the scarier part is that the "Rapture Ready" crowd is more mainstream than the cult in the play). It's doing the Canadian Fringe Festival Circuit this summer; if you have the chance to see it, its really funny and well done (not for those who might easily take offense at religious humour, though!)

kuzadd · July 30, 2007

I went to a play at the Fringe Festival yesterday, called "Jesus in Montana: Adventures in a Doomsday Cult". Basically a true story about the author/actor's experiences with a small cult in the early 80's - another way of illustrating the mindset described in the OP (although the scarier part is that the "Rapture Ready" crowd is more mainstream than the cult in the play). It's doing the Canadian Fringe Festival Circuit this summer; if you have the chance to see it, its really funny and well done (not for those who might easily take offense at religious humour, though!)

Thanks melanie!

I will check that out.

although the scarier part is that the "Rapture Ready" crowd is more mainstream than the cult in the play

true, true, the reality of the "rapture ready" crowd, being mainstream is frightful in itself, and it is IMO a cult.

Though all religion is a cult, this goes into the real, cult associated, programming, with destructive beliefs and tendencies.

M.Dancer · July 30, 2007

How many related threads do you intend to spam us with?

marcinmoka · July 30, 2007

How many related threads do you intend to spam us with?

I was wondering the same. Who knows, maybe his being so passionate about the subject he will become so inspired and join Benny Hinn ministries himself, preaching the good word to others. And our good poster friend Jerry Sienfeld will join the Greenpeace brigades.

kuzadd · July 30, 2007

How many related threads do you intend to spam us with?

Do you think two threads exceeds the usual amounts on this forum?

From what I have seen here, it isn't even close.

Rue · July 30, 2007

Given your past posts I personally have found you to be quite extremist in regards to your expressed views as to the Middle East and in particular the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Therefore while I completely agree with your take on these groups and their true agenda I question whether you are aware you have exhibited the same kind of extremism in past posts as to what you now criticize.

I detest extremism and religious fundamentalism whether it supports one side or the other and what-ever religious form it comes in.

It is true thr Christian Zionist movement is an sburdity in the sense that it only supports Israel's existence as a lead up stage to converting all Jews.

That said we also have ultra-orthodox Jews numbering 500,000 in Israel who do not believe the state of Israel should exist until the Messiah returns first and openly have sided with anti-Israeli terrorist groups and allowed themselves to be used as pawns in Iran at anti-holocaust conferences.

Fundamentalist religion makes strange for strange bed-fellows.

I respect Christians' religious beliefs but me personally I do find the final chapter before Christ is said to come and save that some believe in literally just as questionably as I do Muslim extremists and Jewish extremists.

I find all fundamental religions flawed and unrealistic and scary.

Edited July 30, 2007 by Rue

kuzadd · July 30, 2007

Given your past posts I have found you to be quite extremist in regarsd toy our views as to the Middle East.
So although I completely agree with your take on these groups I question whether we have one extremist calling others the same thing you should question yourself for.

That is all I will say,

Rue: IMO, you know ZERO about my views, You would think a Jewish person who condemns actions Israel has taken, is extremist, if I recall , you have actually called people with those views "self-hating", which they are not, they are entitled to there opinions, as people, as individuals, as human beings. I find that rather 'extremist'.

You find my views "extremist", because I will not condemn as an entire group Arab/Muslims, nor will I support as a collective the actions of Israel I disagree with, and that makes me quite "extremist" in my thinking???

Really?

I would actually quantify, an individual who will do those types of things, condemn in there entirety, or support unquestioningly as extremist, just like the "christians". In that it is either/or , right/wrong and nothing else.

That is extremist thinking.

All your assumptions aside.

That said, at least we agree on the toxicity of these groups and there extremist thinking.

Edited July 30, 2007 by kuzadd

jefferiah · July 30, 2007

I am a Christian. I have never even heard of this group. And yes they do sound wierd. I didn't watch the video though. The word rapture is not in the New Testament, but there are passages which some people believe point to an event which they term "the Rapture". Even at that I would think that the New Testament makes it very clear that this is not something humans have control over and that these organized Christian groups cannot predict or influence.

Edited July 30, 2007 by jefferiah

sharkman · July 30, 2007

Rue: IMO, you know ZERO about my views, You would think a Jewish person who condemns actions Israel has taken, is extremist, if I recall , you have actually called people with those views "self-hating", which they are not, they are entitled to there opinions, as people, as individuals, as human beings. I find that rather 'extremist'.
You find my views "extremist", because I will not condemn as an entire group Arab/Muslims, nor will I support as a collective the actions of Israel I disagree with, and that makes me quite "extremist" in my thinking???

Really?

Biggest laugh I've had in a week LOL!! Anybody who even causually reads the Moral/Religious threads or any single thread pertaining to Israel will know EXACTLY what your views are since you repeat your hatred of the Jewish state and Christians to everyone who will listen and some who'd rather not.

Another week and another thread from kuzadd no doubt based on the latest nonsense from one of many hard left conspiracy web sites she obviously spends too much time on. Not that there's anything wrong with that.