M.Dancer Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 He also says that peace talks ultimately led to the downfall of the Nazis and Japan..... “Students of history will know that all major conflicts are resolved, ultimately, through peace-oriented discussions. . . . And that's what needs to happen here.” http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...3/BNStory/Front I suggest an exchange of prisoners......we give then Taliban Jack and they release the medieval mentality they've been holding hostage....... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 Hmmm...Taliban Jack smells blood and political opportunity, but I think he has overplayed his hand in the wake of attempted bombings in Britain. He is putting all his chips on domestic reaction to body count: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/afghanis...ties/total.html Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
fellowtraveller Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 “We should seek by all means in our power to avoid war, by analyzing possible causes, by trying to remove them, by discussion in a spirit of collaboration and good will. I cannot believe that such a program would be rejected by the people of this country, even if it does mean the establishment of personal contact with the dictators.” Taliban Jack? Nope. Neville Chamberlain. Neville Jack The resemblance is uncanny. Quote The government should do something.
weaponeer Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 ejackulayton is a bottom feeder. He's a vulture standing over the Canadians who died today. He does not have a goddammed clue about Afghanistan, war or history, he just makes up his own BS. There are actually very few wars in history solved at the peace table. AQ and the talibs are religious zelots that are not interested in negotiations, they view peace talks as a sign of weakness. "Our enemy wants to talk peace, they are defeated". ejack is a very dangerous person, not willing to stand up against AQ, talibs and islamic evil. He is more hated here than the talibs, he makes me physically ill.... Quote
AndrewL Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 He also says that peace talks ultimately led to the downfall of the Nazis and Japan.....“Students of history will know that all major conflicts are resolved, ultimately, through peace-oriented discussions. . . . And that's what needs to happen here.” http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...3/BNStory/Front I suggest an exchange of prisoners......we give then Taliban Jack and they release the medieval mentality they've been holding hostage....... Yeah...killing and being killed is working so well for us why would we want to rethink that? Andrew Quote
AndrewL Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 ejackulayton is a bottom feeder. He's a vulture standing over the Canadians who died today. He does not have a goddammed clue about Afghanistan, war or history, he just makes up his own BS. By definition anybody who invades and occupies Afghanistan obviously has zero knowledge of war and history. Andrew Quote
margrace Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 Isn't the Legion saying Never again. Yet here we are right back at it. Canada has a good idea, the peacekeepers and that is what we should be doing. We have no right to go roaring in and tell others what they should do. Should is the worst word in the world and you know what, even though people are dying they will join together to fight if some other entity tries to tell the what to do. Just witness beaton women, how many stand up for the person who beats them, just think about it. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 the peacekeepers and that is what we should be doing Ah yes, the Noble Pearson Approach..... used to work pretty well.... But what if the locals don't want to be peaceful, what if they want to kill you? What if there is no peace to be kept? Walk away? is that your 'solution'? Would you like to return to the time just a few short years ago when Afghanistan was a feudal theocracy, when women were not permitted education, when over 2 million women and children had fled to refugee camps. Or would you have your allies shed their blood, so you could move in after for the reconstruction? Quote The government should do something.
weaponeer Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 ejackulayton is a bottom feeder. He's a vulture standing over the Canadians who died today. He does not have a goddammed clue about Afghanistan, war or history, he just makes up his own BS. By definition anybody who invades and occupies Afghanistan obviously has zero knowledge of war and history. Andrew Oh yes, the talibs are sooooo scarey, we should tremble before them. They like to kill women and children, especially little girls, they even rape young boy, we should run away. No we should not stand up to them, they are tooo tough for us. They are real heros, they skin women alive, chop hands and heads off, really someone to look up to.... Yes Afghanistan is the superpower of the world, we should jkust let them harbour AQ and kill us at their lesiure!!!! AQ has declared war on the western world whether we like it or not. We did not run from or negotiate with the Nazis. Typical leftards, you believe in freedom, democracy and human rights, you just don't want to do anything about it!!! Just make excusses for the enemy... Quote
margrace Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 the peacekeepers and that is what we should be doing Ah yes, the Noble Pearson Approach..... used to work pretty well.... But what if the locals don't want to be peaceful, what if they want to kill you? What if there is no peace to be kept? Walk away? is that your 'solution'? Would you like to return to the time just a few short years ago when Afghanistan was a feudal theocracy, when women were not permitted education, when over 2 million women and children had fled to refugee camps. Or would you have your allies shed their blood, so you could move in after for the reconstruction? There will never be peace, they won't forget the ones you have killed, it might have worked for Germany but I don't think in the future we will really see that it worked for Japan. Afghanistan is a totally different place. Quote
Argus Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 He also says that peace talks ultimately led to the downfall of the Nazis and Japan.....“Students of history will know that all major conflicts are resolved, ultimately, through peace-oriented discussions. . . . And that's what needs to happen here.” http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...3/BNStory/Front I suggest an exchange of prisoners......we give then Taliban Jack and they release the medieval mentality they've been holding hostage....... Layton is not a student of history. He's a poli sci graduate, and his knowledge of military history in particular is close to non-existent. As for most conflicts being resulted through "peace oriented discussions" well, technically yeah. Like, WW1 and WW2 were "resolved through peace oriented discussions" but only after we forced agreement through military means. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 Isn't the Legion saying Never again. Yet here we are right back at it. Canada has a good idea, the peacekeepers and that is what we should be doing. We have no right to go roaring in and tell others what they should do. Should is the worst word in the world and you know what, even though people are dying they will join together to fight if some other entity tries to tell the what to do.Just witness beaton women, how many stand up for the person who beats them, just think about it. So are you also saying we shouldn't interfere when women are being beaten? If not, then explain your conflicting views. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
AndrewL Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 Oh yes, the talibs are sooooo scarey, we should tremble before them. Not relevant. Its the local tribes people that know the land and will fight indefinitely as their fathers and grandfathers did before them against the British and the Russians. Those were far more formidable foes than the ATV bound canucks. They like to kill women and children, especially little girls, they even rape young boy, we should run away. No we should not stand up to them, they are tooo tough for us. They are real heros, they skin women alive, chop hands and heads off, really someone to look up to.... Yes Afghanistan is the superpower of the world, we should jkust let them harbour AQ and kill us at their lesiure!!!! So, 6 years later and what has really changed? AQ has declared war on the western world whether we like it or not. We did not run from or negotiate with the Nazis. Actually, we were a bunch of jew haters who gladly did business with nazis at the time of WWII. This of course was not too long after we committed our own genocide against the natives. Nevertheless, AQ is little more than a murderous criminal organization, one that feeds off of nato and american expansion. You have no idea how stupid and corrupt the 'west' really is. Typical leftards, you believe in freedom, democracy and human rights, you just don't want to do anything about it!!! Just make excusses for the enemy... Ahh yes, the 'left' is the source of all your problems. Do yourself a favor and pick up a history book or two. Im thinking ignorance is maybe closer to the source of your actual problems. Andrew Quote
AndrewL Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 Layton is not a student of history. He's a poli sci graduate, and his knowledge of military history in particular is close to non-existent. As for most conflicts being resulted through "peace oriented discussions" well, technically yeah. Like, WW1 and WW2 were "resolved through peace oriented discussions" but only after we forced agreement through military means. Of course a major difference being that WW1 and WW2 actually had opposable armies. But hey, dont let that significant difference get in your way. Andrew Quote
stignasty Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 Taliban Jack I really hate this kind of crap. Quote "It may not be true, but it's legendary that if you're like all Americans, you know almost nothing except for your own country. Which makes you probably knowledgeable about one more country than most Canadians." - Stephen Harper
gc1765 Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 Taliban Jack I really hate this kind of crap. No kidding. It really takes away from people's arguments when they use insults like that. Aren't insults against the forum rules anyway? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
weaponeer Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 Oh yes, the talibs are sooooo scarey, we should tremble before them. Not relevant. Its the local tribes people that know the land and will fight indefinitely as their fathers and grandfathers did before them against the British and the Russians. Those were far more formidable foes than the ATV bound canucks. They like to kill women and children, especially little girls, they even rape young boy, we should run away. No we should not stand up to them, they are tooo tough for us. They are real heros, they skin women alive, chop hands and heads off, really someone to look up to.... Yes Afghanistan is the superpower of the world, we should jkust let them harbour AQ and kill us at their lesiure!!!! So, 6 years later and what has really changed? AQ has declared war on the western world whether we like it or not. We did not run from or negotiate with the Nazis. Actually, we were a bunch of jew haters who gladly did business with nazis at the time of WWII. This of course was not too long after we committed our own genocide against the natives. Nevertheless, AQ is little more than a murderous criminal organization, one that feeds off of nato and american expansion. You have no idea how stupid and corrupt the 'west' really is. Typical leftards, you believe in freedom, democracy and human rights, you just don't want to do anything about it!!! Just make excusses for the enemy... Ahh yes, the 'left' is the source of all your problems. Do yourself a favor and pick up a history book or two. Im thinking ignorance is maybe closer to the source of your actual problems. Andrew Actually I have a degree in military history, thanks. And yes the leftards are a major source of the problems, of course they have been kicking the CF around any chance they get. Hoist the surrender flag over the dead bodies of Canadians. How come ejack has not volunteered to go over to Afghanistan and negotiate himself..... As for what's going on over here, you are not here and don't have as clue, we are NOT fighting farmers with guns, if we were it would have been over by now. we committed our own genocide against the natives, please give me a break. we didn't round them up and gas them, mass executuions, get off it. Some indian threatens to block a road or railway track & Canadians can't kiss their asses fast enough, genocide, you would not know it if it bit you in the a#@!! Quote
AndrewL Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 Actually I have a degree in military history, thanks. Off the back of a match book no doubt. Apparently any jackass can get a degree.... How come [Jack Layton] has not volunteered to go over to Afghanistan and negotiate himself..... I don't agree with Jack that there can be a negotiated peace with the taliban. Nor do i agree with the likes of you that there is a military victory that is possible via Canadian forces. The absolute only chance for Afghanis who dont want Nato or the Taliban in their country is for them to do it themselves and for pakistan to clean up their border region. Canada has no role to play here. Its a waste, it always has been. As for what's going on over here, you are not here and don't have as clue, we are NOT fighting farmers with guns, if we were it would have been over by now. Are you claiming to actually be in aghanistan? I certainly hope you are not representative of the CFs? What a disgrace. In some cases you absolutely are killing tribes people native to the region. Or is there a taliban uniform that you use to distinguish between afghan tribes people and taliban from pakistan? How do you know? And why have you not changed a fucking thing in six years? It will only get uglier. we committed our own genocide against the natives, please give me a break. we didn't round them up and gas them, mass executuions, get off it. Some indian threatens to block a road or railway track & Canadians can't kiss their asses fast enough, genocide, you would not know it if it bit you in the a#@!! For somebody who supposedly 'studied' military history you have an embarrassingly narrow minded definition of genocide. Yikes. If you are actually in the CF i have lost some respect for that institution in our brief tit for tat here. You come across as a meathead..... Andrew Quote
margrace Posted July 4, 2007 Report Posted July 4, 2007 we committed our own genocide against the natives, please give me a break. we didn't round them up and gas them, mass executuions, get off it. Some indian threatens to block a road or railway track & Canadians can't kiss their asses fast enough, genocide, you would not know it if it bit you in the a#@!! No we just sent them peace presents, pieces of disease ridden blankets with diptheria germs and killed off probably 50 million of them. Of course we are lilly white. Quote
Argus Posted July 5, 2007 Report Posted July 5, 2007 we committed our own genocide against the natives, please give me a break. we didn't round them up and gas them, mass executuions, get off it. Some indian threatens to block a road or railway track & Canadians can't kiss their asses fast enough, genocide, you would not know it if it bit you in the a#@!! No we just sent them peace presents, pieces of disease ridden blankets with diptheria germs and killed off probably 50 million of them. Of course we are lilly white. The history of humanity is the history of conflict between tribes, races, cities, nations and ideologies. Every political and ethnic grouping throughout history on every continent did its level best to destroy its neighbours and take their land. The natives were no better nor worse than anyone else, nor were we. We were just better at it. And why some of you seem so determined to be wrapped up in guilt and shame because your ignorant, barbarian ancestors were better fighters than everyone else's ignorant, barbarian ancestors is beyond me. Would you feel happier of the natives had butchered our ancestors? They would have if they could have. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 5, 2007 Report Posted July 5, 2007 Layton is not a student of history. He's a poli sci graduate, and his knowledge of military history in particular is close to non-existent. As for most conflicts being resulted through "peace oriented discussions" well, technically yeah. Like, WW1 and WW2 were "resolved through peace oriented discussions" but only after we forced agreement through military means. Of course a major difference being that WW1 and WW2 actually had opposable armies. But hey, dont let that significant difference get in your way. Andrew I'm not certain why you regard this is of any importance. All military conflict has opposing forces, and the fact the opposing force in this instance is fighting a guerrilla style war has nothing to do with the above comments. However, I won't ask you to expand upon your statement. Given the lack of depth of your postings thus far on this topic I'm not sure any kind of productive dialogue is possible with you Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
weaponeer Posted July 5, 2007 Report Posted July 5, 2007 Actually I have a degree in military history, thanks. Off the back of a match book no doubt. Apparently any jackass can get a degree.... How come [Jack Layton] has not volunteered to go over to Afghanistan and negotiate himself..... I don't agree with Jack that there can be a negotiated peace with the taliban. Nor do i agree with the likes of you that there is a military victory that is possible via Canadian forces. The absolute only chance for Afghanis who dont want Nato or the Taliban in their country is for them to do it themselves and for pakistan to clean up their border region. Canada has no role to play here. Its a waste, it always has been. As for what's going on over here, you are not here and don't have as clue, we are NOT fighting farmers with guns, if we were it would have been over by now. Are you claiming to actually be in aghanistan? I certainly hope you are not representative of the CFs? What a disgrace. In some cases you absolutely are killing tribes people native to the region. Or is there a taliban uniform that you use to distinguish between afghan tribes people and taliban from pakistan? How do you know? And why have you not changed a fucking thing in six years? It will only get uglier. we committed our own genocide against the natives, please give me a break. we didn't round them up and gas them, mass executuions, get off it. Some indian threatens to block a road or railway track & Canadians can't kiss their asses fast enough, genocide, you would not know it if it bit you in the a#@!! For somebody who supposedly 'studied' military history you have an embarrassingly narrow minded definition of genocide. Yikes. If you are actually in the CF i have lost some respect for that institution in our brief tit for tat here. You come across as a meathead..... Andrew Well at least you'll be safe hiding behind your computer in your home. Your not here and have no idea what's going on. A disgrace, how about jack raising the retreat flag on the bodies of fallen Canadians. Means a little more to us, especially if you know them. Yes, he cares so deeply for the people here that he will abandon them to their fate. It is really easy for you, your NOT here to look them in the eye... Again, the left folks (agreed not all) like to get together and protest, and talk about how morally superior they are. How they believe in human right, rule of law, etc... but they have no interest in doing the really hard (sometimes nasty) work need to be done to get us there. As well, I do not see how a thread about jack, Afghanistan or the war has anything to do with the Indians at home. Genocide, The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group did NOT happen to the Indians tribes of Canada, they are still here today. For the record I DO NOT agree with everything that happened to the indians years ago, but it was not a genocide. This topic is for another thread. As for you thoughts of me, I could care less, I owe you nothing. As for your respect of the CF, I doubt very much it was every really there... Quote
margrace Posted July 5, 2007 Report Posted July 5, 2007 we committed our own genocide against the natives, please give me a break. we didn't round them up and gas them, mass executuions, get off it. Some indian threatens to block a road or railway track & Canadians can't kiss their asses fast enough, genocide, you would not know it if it bit you in the a#@!! No we just sent them peace presents, pieces of disease ridden blankets with diptheria germs and killed off probably 50 million of them. Of course we are lilly white. The history of humanity is the history of conflict between tribes, races, cities, nations and ideologies. Every political and ethnic grouping throughout history on every continent did its level best to destroy its neighbours and take their land. The natives were no better nor worse than anyone else, nor were we. We were just better at it. And why some of you seem so determined to be wrapped up in guilt and shame because your ignorant, barbarian ancestors were better fighters than everyone else's ignorant, barbarian ancestors is beyond me. Would you feel happier of the natives had butchered our ancestors? They would have if they could have. \ So are you saying that the better man at killing is the winner and that we should keep that up. Nothing changes, keep on killing it is the way of the world Quote
Riverwind Posted July 5, 2007 Report Posted July 5, 2007 So are you saying that the better man at killing is the winner and that we should keep that up. Nothing changes, keep on killing it is the way of the worldWhat spurious argument. Things have changed. The things that happened in the past would never happen today. His argument is that no one living today should feel guilty for what happened in the past. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
ScottSA Posted July 5, 2007 Report Posted July 5, 2007 So are you saying that the better man at killing is the winner and that we should keep that up. Nothing changes, keep on killing it is the way of the world Basically, yes. We've grown too soft to remember that, and it'll be the death of our society. We may not like it, and we may try to imagine something better, but I bet you can't think of anything better that will actually work. Trite though it may seem, the saying "If you want peace, prepare for war" is the only verifiable way to achieve peace. The barbarians aren't quite here yet, although I expect it won't be overlong before one of our eversopeaceloving Muslims manages to do away with a whack of Torontonians, so it's easy to sit here and snottily pontificate at the job our soldiers are doing in Afghanistan, but soon enough you'll be wishing there were more soldiers to protect your soft white underbelly. Try an alternate method. Go be a human shield somewhere and see what happens...not by our side, because we can still afford to have qualms, but by the other side. Or maybe go plunk yourself down in Darfur and announce to the locals that you're going to start a cult of peace and show everyone how to get along in harmonious gender-equititable peace. You'll certainly feel superior to the nasty gauche Canadian soldiers for the two and a half seconds you have before someone shoots you, beheads you, or enslaves you. Quote
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