Michael Moore's 'Sicko' Scrutinizes Canada's Healthcar

[pfezziwig]

Moore often compares the Canadian universal healthcare system to the Americans system. Usually this is aimed to draw attention to the 40 million uninsured Americans but critics reply Canada has unacceptably long waiting lists for major treatments as reason not to adopt that system.

Canadian's like to think our system is the best in the world even though the World Health Organization puts us around the 30th spot. Hopefully this added public scrutiny will get Canadian's to wake up to the realty of a failing healthcare system.

Not doing anything about it just doesn’t cut it anymore, should we wait till the baby boomers hit the system en masse before trying to change things? The Senate and 5 provinces have already reported unsustainable rates of healthcare cost increases. That leaves it to a parallel private and public system as a solution.

Let’s be a little more proactive Canada, stop denying the sick access to healthcare for your own ideology.

Edited October 11, 2007 by pfezziwig

[Topaz]

I watched Moore on Larry King show and he did say that we do have a good system but he also said we still have problems but that the US has their own problems which the most critical one being lack of coverage for everyone in the US. Both, countries will have a shortage of doctors because they are getting to the age of retirement and also nurses. I feel in Ontario, we were at the bottom of the barrel when Harris left and we could only get better after the Libs took over. There will also be problems in healthcare until the population, or the baby boomers, slowly die off and then the population will correct the need for healthcare. We all share part of the problem, the patient , their life-style, the province and the Feds.

[jdobbin]

P. Fezziwig, Administrator for (website blanked out) , a website for patients to enter feedback on the healthcare they recieve.

This the third post in a row where you advertise your websites. While there might be room for debate on the movie in question and healthcare, it seems more a veiled attempt for you to promote yourself.

I think all your posts should be deleted. Your link is not a citation, it is an advertisement.

[M.Dancer]

This the third post in a row where you advertise your websites. While there might be room for debate on the movie in question and healthcare, it seems more a veiled attempt for you to promote yourself.

I think all your posts should be deleted. Your link is not a citation, it is an advertisement.

Good call.

[M.Dancer]

Not doing anything about it just doesn’t cut it anymore, should we wait till the baby boomers hit the system en masse before trying to change things? The Senate and 5 provinces have already reported unsustainable rates of healthcare cost increases. That leaves it to a parallel private and public system as a solution.

Not doing anything about it just doesn’t cut it anymore, should we wait till the baby boomers hit the system en masse before trying to change things? The Senate and 5 provinces have already reported unsustainable rates of healthcare cost increases. That leaves it to a parallel private and public system as a solution. Let’s be a little more proactive Canada, stop denying the sick access to healthcare for your own ideology.

http://www.healthcarereviews.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=167

[Rue]

Moore often compares the Canadian universal healthcare system to the Americans system. Usually this is aimed to draw attention to the 40 million uninsured Americans but critics reply Canada has unacceptably long waiting lists for major treatments as reason not to adopt that system.

Canadian's like to think our system is the best in the world even though the World Health Organization puts us around the 30th spot. Hopefully this added public scrutiny will get Canadian's to wake up to the realty of a failing healthcare system.

Not doing anything about it just doesn’t cut it anymore, should we wait till the baby boomers hit the system en masse before trying to change things? The Senate and 5 provinces have already reported unsustainable rates of healthcare cost increases. That leaves it to a parallel private and public system as a solution.

Let’s be a little more proactive Canada, stop denying the sick access to healthcare for your own ideology.

-------------------

P. Fezziwig, Administrator for Healthcare Reviews , a website for patients to enter feedback on the healthcare they recieve.

You sound typically Canadian. You complain about what is wrong, but you provide no suggestions on how to fix what you think is wrong. That to me is a very Canadian approach to social issues.

What would you suggest to fix what you see is wrong?

[fellowtraveller]

Every debate* on health care should begin with this mantra, recited by every person: "There will never be enough money to keep everybody alive forever. Never."

* Whenever we mature enough to actually have a debate without rampant ideology taking over, and devoid of anecdotes about Aunt Tillys treatment problems.

[mikedavid00]

Let’s be a little more proactive Canada, stop denying the sick access to healthcare for your own ideology.

The largest influx of poeple using our system is not these fabled baby boomers (still have yet to see this generation after 15 years or so of baby boomer talk), they are immigrants into Canada using our systems that they have not paid into. Boomers have paid into it their whole lives. We then get an HR shortage, and everything is a mess beyond repair. That's all that is happenning (beside the fact that the gov't cannot manage 1 single program properly).

There have also been rebuttles for Moore's film. It openned finishing 9th place.

Do you know why?

Becuase Americans as a whole are very happy with their healthcare system and the majority want anything but the gov't to get involved.

Many reviewers agree that this film actually hurt Moore's 'Liberalness' and credibility seing as some of the peoople he featured actually LOST in jury based courts when they filed claims against their insurnace company.

It's amazing to even think that they would even be considered just the 'chance' to have experimental treatements paid for.

Go to a Canadian hospital and ask for an experimental treatment. They will probably laugh you out of the building and not even know the procedures you are speaking of.

Canada desperately needs a 2 tier healthcare system for all the right reasons.

I don't want to follow after Europe becuase we will mainly have US based hospital corporations and we should sick to their way of doing things.

[mikedavid00]

* Whenever we mature enough to actually have a debate without rampant ideology taking over, and devoid of anecdotes about Aunt Tillys treatment problems.

I agree.

Canada is not 'rich' enough to resolve our healtchare probablems. I estimate it would take a trippling of funds which the country can not afford.

[fellowtraveller]

Do you know why?

Becuase Americans as a whole are very happy with their healthcare system and the majority want anything but the gov't to get involved.

Oh come on now, that only applies to those Americans that can afford coverage and in large part to those who have their premiums paid for by their employers.

The 40 million Americans that are uninsured and the many more that are underinsured are not 'happy '.

I agree.

Canada is not 'rich' enough to resolve our healtchare probablems. I estimate it would take a trippling of funds which the country can not afford.

That isn't what I said. I said we would never have enough money to keep everybody alive forever, which is waht the Friends of Medicare insist happened in the mythical Good Old Days. Between enhanced life spans and massive costs of technology/drugs, we'll never have enough $.

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh come on now, that only applies to those Americans that can afford coverage and in large part to those who have their premiums paid for by their employers.

The 40 million Americans that are uninsured and the many more that are underinsured are not 'happy '.

They are a lot happier compared to what they would experience with Canada's version of healthcare utopia. Lack of insurance does not always mean no access to healthcare. Federal and state programs close the gap with Medicaid programs, child waivers, disability, etc.

Most Americans will not dutifully wait in long lines for services to prove some national value for equal access to rationed care. Canadians with insurance or cash don't have to either.

American and Canadian pets get faster access to health care.

[fellowtraveller]

Lack of insurance does not always mean no access to healthcare. Federal and state programs close the gap with Medicaid programs, child waivers, disability, etc.

Baloney.

White, educated, middle class and employed-with-benefits baloney.

The working poor, poor and even many middle class insured people have little or no access to preventative medicine because they simply cannot afford it. Going to a doctor only when you are desperately ill does not make you 'happy'.

But don't take my word for it, here is some actual information:explain this then.

Canadians live significantly longer on average than Americans despite very similar cultures, diets and liefestyles. We are just as fat and sedentary. We live longer. Overall better health care for all citizens is a reason.

If you are rich in the USA, maybe you can get your knee rebuilt quicker. But for far, far too many Americans you simply cannot afford to find out if that little rectal bleed is a little problem until it becomes a big tumour - and too late. Or tumor if you must.

I'm a free market kind of guy, but it baffles me that a society supposedly as fair and compassionate as the US claims to be can just leave so many with so little, and be proud of it.

"I got mine, so screw you Jack." Odd , and not what I would consider representative.

[bush_cheney2004]

Lack of insurance does not always mean no access to healthcare. Federal and state programs close the gap with Medicaid programs, child waivers, disability, etc.

Baloney.

White, educated, middle class and employed-with-benefits baloney.

The working poor, poor and even many middle class insured people have little or no access to preventative medicine because they simply cannot afford it. Going to a doctor only when you are desperately ill does not make you 'happy'.

But don't take my word for it, here is some actual information:explain this then.

Canadians live significantly longer on average than Americans despite very similar cultures, diets and liefestyles. We are just as fat and sedentary. We live longer. Overall better health care for all citizens is a reason.

If you are rich in the USA, maybe you can get your knee rebuilt quicker. But for far, far too many Americans you simply cannot afford to find out if that little rectal bleed is a little problem until it becomes a big tumour - and too late. Or tumor if you must.

I'm a free market kind of guy, but it baffles me that a society supposedly as fair and compassionate as the US claims to be can just leave so many with so little, and be proud of it.

"I got mine, so screw you Jack." Odd , and not what I would consider representative.

Nice racist rant (I am double insured and not "white"), but it doesn't change the facts and choices most Americans make. Using your logic, and since the Japanese live longer than Canadians, does that mean we should all adopt their health-care system???

The American system is for Americans and Canadians with insurance/cash....others can just wait for the government and suffer while they live "longer".

Health care is not a right, not even in Canada. Nobody would adopt Canada's system given better alternatives in Europe, except for the fact that excess US capacity is right next store to save someone's ass who is tired of CHA access to a waiting list. My cat gets better health care than that, and he also has no insurance.

[Riverwind]

Nobody would adopt Canada's system given better alternatives in Europe, except for the fact that excess US capacity is right next store to save someone's ass who is tired of CHA access to a waiting list.

I don't hear many people saying the Canadian system is the 'best in the world' anymore. Most people recognize that it has problems and are looking to places like Europe for solutions. That said, flaws and all, the Canadian system is much better than the US system when you look at the population as a whole. The average middle class american would be much better off under the Canadian system and they would be even better off with a European style system.

[bush_cheney2004]

I don't hear many people saying the Canadian system is the 'best in the world' anymore. Most people recognize that it has problems and are looking to places like Europe for solutions. That said, flaws and all, the Canadian system is much better than the US system when you look at the population as a whole. The average middle class american would be much better off under the Canadian system.

Then why aren't Canadians happy with their system? Why do they go to other nations for procedures?

Why is there a shortage of imaging facilities? Why do outlying regions far from population centers have substandard care? Why do medical professionals head south or abroad? Why does Canada rely on Americans subsidizing the cost of pharma R&D?

Why is there so much W-A-I-T-I-N-G ??????

Americans don't care much for averages, and they sure as hell don't like to wait...for anything. The American system involves medical professionals, big pharma, insurance companies, hospitals, and government. It is 15% of US GDP. We probably piss away more money than the entire CHA spends each year in the provinces. We have lots of excess capacity, and that ain't cheap.

And that's how the majority, not all, of Americans want it. Keep the Canadian healthcare "values" in Canada.

[fellowtraveller]

80 years average lifespan in Canada.

77 average in USA.

Essentially the same culture, diet , lifestyle.

Significantly different levels of health care.

No explanation other than ' My cat gets better health care than that, and he also has no insurance.'

Like I said, the classic "I got mine".

What an ugly, selfish point of view.

[bush_cheney2004]

80 years average lifespan in Canada.

77 average in USA.

Essentially the same culture, diet , lifestyle.

Significantly different levels of health care.

No explanation other than ' My cat gets better health care than that, and he also has no insurance.'

Like I said, the classic "I got mine".

What an ugly, selfish point of view.

You can have those extra three years and then some....we're not interested in commie health care. Besides, a lot of that extra "lifespan" is spent consuming American culture..LOL!

Go back to your ignorant racist rants....

[Riverwind]

Then why aren't Canadians happy with their system?

Most Canadians are basically happy with it. Those that aren't want A European model. No one wants the US system.

Why do they go to other nations for procedures?

A small fraction of the total system driven largely by the ban private clinics in Canada. That, in itself, in not an argument against a single payer system.

Why do medical professionals head south or abroad?

I said the system is better for the average Canadian - the fact that doctors/nurses might get paid better in the US does not change that.

Why does Canada rely on Americans subsidizing the cost of pharma R&D?

I see you have bought the propoganda from BigPharma. The Canadian government - like any large insurance provider uses its buying power to negotiate better deals. OTOH - the Bush government decided that it did not like the free market when it comes to drugs and specifically prohibited the government from using their buying power to negotiate better deals. The American taxpayer is getting screwed to pay off Bush's campaign contributors...

Why is there so much W-A-I-T-I-N-G ??????

Let's see - a poor Canadian would might have wait a year for a knee operation which is a concern. A poor american would have to wait forever. Why exactly do you think waiting forever is shorter?

Americans don't care much for averages, and they sure as hell don't like to wait...for anything.

And you will happily grind your neighbors face into the dirt while you are doing it....

Rich people do get better care in the US. Nobody argues that. However, this system comes with a cost which means the average american is much worse off over the course of their lifetime.

[bush_cheney2004]

Rich people do get better care in the US. Nobody argues that. However, this system comes with a cost which means the average american is much worse off over the course of their lifetime.

Thanks for the Yea..BUTs...keep your system, but please don't dick-up ours.

Sorry, but the socialist-commie ideal does not apply to the United States. Still, we have federal and state healthcare programs that dwarf anything found in Canada. But SUFFERING EQUALLY is not ever going to fly down here....ever.

Canada already has a two-tier system..it just the ostriches who won't admit it.

[Riverwind]

Still, we have federal and state healthcare programs that dwarf anything found in Canada.

ROTFL - you mean hospitals like this? And that is how America treats its 'heros' - I have heard worse stories about state run hospitals that serve people that the average white american doesn't care about.

[bush_cheney2004]

ROTFL - you mean hospitals like this? An that is how America treats its 'heros' - I have heard worse stories about state run hospitals that serve people that the average white american doesn't care about.

"You have heard"...LOL!

More racist rants from the socialist pretenders who think they are better. I wonder if the First Nations believe that crap....'course their immediate concern is just getting potable water!

[ScottSA]

ROTFL - you mean hospitals like this? An that is how America treats its 'heros' - I have heard worse stories about state run hospitals that serve people that the average white american doesn't care about.

"You have heard"...LOL!

More racist rants from the socialist pretenders who think they are better. I wonder if the First Nations believe that crap....'course their immediate concern is just getting potable water!

Potable something, anyway...

[Riverwind]

"You have heard"...LOL!

The Walter Reed fiasco is well documented. Do you honestly believe that is the only example of gross under funding of state run medical institutions? Would you be willing to depend entirely on those programs? If your answer is no then you prove my point.

More racist rants from the socialist pretenders who think they are better. I wonder if the First Nations believe that crap....'course their immediate concern is just getting potable water!

Those problems would happen to anybody who chooses to live in the middle of no where in communities that could not exist without government subsidies. Natives that move to where the economic opportunities are get access to exactly the same care that everyone else gets. In the US, poor people get substandard care no matter where they live.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Walter Reed fiasco is well documented. Do you honestly believe that is the only example of gross under funding of state run medical institutions? Would you be willing to depend entirely on those programs? If your answer is no then you prove my point.

Yes...I lived with the federal system for many years as a member of the US Armed Forces. Got no complaints...

Those problems would happen to anybody who chooses to live in the middle of no where in communities that could not exist without government subsidies. Natives that move to where the economic opportunities are get access to exactly the same care that everyone else gets. In the US, poor people get substandard care no matter where they live.

Yea...But noted. Many "poor people" in the US get better care than Canadians..so do their pets!

What's this...you mean that people who live close to economic centers deserve better health care? Oh my...that seems to be inconsistent with your socialist-commie ideal. Tsk..tsk....

[Riverwind]

Yes...I lived with the federal system for many years as a member of the US Armed Forces. Got no complaints...

Then why are you afraid of a system that covers all Americans instead of just Armed Forces members?

Yea...But noted. Many "poor people" in the US get better care than Canadians..so do their pets!

40 million americans have no healthcare at all. Many more would face financial ruin if they developed a chronic illness.