Pliny Posted October 7, 2007 Report Posted October 7, 2007 No comment about the little three year old who died because she was refused admission, eh? Here's a question and a comment. Question: Who is defending the American system as perfect? Comment: When it comes to an opportunist like Michael Moore making a presentation I tend to think I am getting only half the story. Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Pliny Posted October 11, 2007 Report Posted October 11, 2007 Did anyone see the expose on the Cuban health care system? Apparently if you are form a foriegn country paying for your health care you get 1st class treatment- like Michael Moore showed in his documentary. However, if you are a Cuban your treatment is very different. They had pictures! A smuggled video shows the squalor that exists in hospitals in the cities and it is worse in the rural areas, apparently. It looks pretty bad. Now I know the people presenting this video are Cuban ex-patriots and dissidents but they have nothing to gain personally by showing it. Unlike Mr. Moore who makes a lot of money showing his "documentaries" and sliming all things American. You don't have to believe what is claimed by the dissidents but they seemed sincere. Perhaps some other ex-Cubans can corroborate the story? Individuals and society should do everything that can be done to help each other and those in need. Government cannot do it and there is no political will to do it. We can fool ourselves for quite awhile thinking government will be responsible and accountable but they, like the health care system itself, have a primary interest in the structure and maintenance of the system. All else is secondary. How could anything else be more important than the system delivering the service? Sounds like a familiar complaint - and it should, it is the same complaint they have regarding profit-seeking capitalists who think they are important getting goods and services to meet the demands of the general populace. The thing is that the capitalist when he fails is gone, the people working there move on as best they can - A failing centralized government service just lacks resources and continues until it collapses economically - the result being the whole populace suffers. Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Shakeyhands Posted October 11, 2007 Report Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) Did anyone see the expose on the Cuban health care system? Apparently if you are form a foriegn country paying for your health care you get 1st class treatment- like Michael Moore showed in his documentary. However, if you are a Cuban your treatment is very different. They had pictures! A smuggled video shows the squalor that exists in hospitals in the cities and it is worse in the rural areas, apparently.It looks pretty bad. Now I know the people presenting this video are Cuban ex-patriots and dissidents but they have nothing to gain personally by showing it. Unlike Mr. Moore who makes a lot of money showing his "documentaries" and sliming all things American. You don't have to believe what is claimed by the dissidents but they seemed sincere. Perhaps some other ex-Cubans can corroborate the story? Is this knd of like the VA Hositals in the US? Yeah... expariots or dissidents would never have an axe to grind... like you allude to... grain of salt. Edited October 11, 2007 by Shakeyhands Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
old_bold&cold Posted October 11, 2007 Report Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) When I was in Cuba and took a tour bus of Havana, the guide said that there are something like 1000 cubans for every doctor and that there does not seem to be any shortage of supplies or services there at all. Now yes, this same guide was all proud to be a Cuban and even more proud of the reveloution, that took place and how Cuba is now a living thriving place. By my observation, I would say that Cuba is now living the same lives and standards that we did during the fifties and sixties. They are happy and they look healthy. Now are there shortages? Yes and most cubans would greatly appreciate a fragranced bar of soap over money any day. There is not real hunger of the masses and while there are some fat Cubans, they are not so common. They are happy with their lot in life for the most part, so I will not fault them on their healthcare, because it is more then adaquet for them. Canada'a healthcare is better then most others, but yes it is expensive. Today when our dollar is higher then the USD, it makes no sense for our doctors to go south for more money. Also many doctors who did leave, are considering coming back here to practice. Unfortunately with the exception of Alberta and some other western provinces nurses still can make more in the USA then here in Canada, but that is now much smaller difference then it was. If we stop the loss of our educated doctors to other countries, and keep our nurses, then Canada will be a much better system then the USA. Times, events, and economies are all changing in Canada's favour, and we will again be enjoying our healthcare system, the way it was designed to be used. Our gain in that though, will probably come at the cost to the USA system, but they will adapt to this quicker then we did, when it was the other way around. As for Moores views go, it was a movie that had intented purposes and it did not give fair representation to opposing ideas or views. But that is what Hollywood is and does. It did take all the blurred areas of doubt and shine it towards their own point of view. Much like we argue here, and each person views are probably not with out slants towards their own insights. Edited October 11, 2007 by old_bold&cold Quote
Pliny Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) When I was in Cuba and took a tour bus of Havana, the guide said that there are something like 1000 cubans for every doctor and that there does not seem to be any shortage of supplies or services there at all. Now yes, this same guide was all proud to be a Cuban and even more proud of the reveloution, that took place and how Cuba is now a living thriving place. By my observation, I would say that Cuba is now living the same lives and standards that we did during the fifties and sixties. They are happy and they look healthy. Now are there shortages? Yes and most cubans would greatly appreciate a fragranced bar of soap over money any day. There is not real hunger of the masses and while there are some fat Cubans, they are not so common. They are happy with their lot in life for the most part, so I will not fault them on their healthcare, because it is more then adaquet for them. Canada'a healthcare is better then most others, but yes it is expensive. Today when our dollar is higher then the USD, it makes no sense for our doctors to go south for more money. Also many doctors who did leave, are considering coming back here to practice. Unfortunately with the exception of Alberta and some other western provinces nurses still can make more in the USA then here in Canada, but that is now much smaller difference then it was. If we stop the loss of our educated doctors to other countries, and keep our nurses, then Canada will be a much better system then the USA. Times, events, and economies are all changing in Canada's favour, and we will again be enjoying our healthcare system, the way it was designed to be used. Our gain in that though, will probably come at the cost to the USA system, but they will adapt to this quicker then we did, when it was the other way around. As for Moores views go, it was a movie that had intented purposes and it did not give fair representation to opposing ideas or views. But that is what Hollywood is and does. It did take all the blurred areas of doubt and shine it towards their own point of view. Much like we argue here, and each person views are probably not with out slants towards their own insights. You're just a nice guy aren't you, OBC! They will be living like that until the regime falls. When it does, things will have to change. They will probably want to be able to talk about politics. Edited October 12, 2007 by Pliny Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Pliny Posted October 12, 2007 Report Posted October 12, 2007 Is this knd of like the VA Hositals in the US?Yeah... expariots or dissidents would never have an axe to grind... like you allude to... grain of salt. No. You are right to be critical of the source. Just as I am critical of Moore. Why are you not as critical of Moore? Guess we would have to live the experience to get the truth. Moore has proven himself to me to use half-truths and innuendo in his films, in other words, present a less than honest view. Those dissidents didn't get those pictures from nowhere though. Those poor conditions exist somewhere in Cuba, as I'm sure did Moore's excellent experience. Castro couldn't have been prouder. The issue of the VA's hospital has been dealt with thanks to a public outcry. It was more of an issue of timing as they were about to shut down Bethesda anyway. Is the issue of the hospitals in Cuba going to be corrected soon? Or is there not going to be an outcry? Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
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