More Criticism from Atlantic Canada

[gc1765]

"An angry Nova Scotia Tory Premier Rodney MacDonald is urging Conservative politicians from his province to oppose the federal budget because of a federal-provincial money dispute.

Mr. MacDonald also called on the province's senators to hold up the budget bill in the Senate.

Federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty “has turned his back on Nova Scotians, and our quiet talks are about to get a whole lot louder,” Mr. MacDonald said in a news release Sunday.

The Premier's statement highlights a growing rift in the Tory political family in Atlantic Canada. "

Link

First Williams, then Casey, now MacDonald...

[jdobbin]

First Williams, then Casey, now MacDonald...

I'm sure MacDonald will now be attacked and vilified. You have to wonder how much the Tories are prepared to write off the Maritimes.

I'm still waiting for Saskatchewan to begin to question how many silent Tories they have who are voting to keep Saskatchewan from not getting what they were promised.

[Michael Bluth]

Mr. MacDonald also called on the province's senators to hold up the budget bill in the Senate.

How very democratic of him!

How convenient that 5 out of Nova Scotia's 7 Senators are Liberal.

Do the Liberals really want to force an election over this issue?

[runningdog]

"An angry Nova Scotia Tory Premier Rodney MacDonald is urging Conservative politicians from his province to oppose the federal budget because of a federal-provincial money dispute.

Mr. MacDonald also called on the province's senators to hold up the budget bill in the Senate.

Federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty “has turned his back on Nova Scotians, and our quiet talks are about to get a whole lot louder,” Mr. MacDonald said in a news release Sunday.

The Premier's statement highlights a growing rift in the Tory political family in Atlantic Canada. "

Link

First Williams, then Casey, now MacDonald...

I'll believe it when I see it. Rodney is the worst premier Nova Scotia has had in some time, no comparison to Dr. John Hamm who did a nice job for the people.

[Argus]

"An angry Nova Scotia Tory Premier Rodney MacDonald is urging Conservative politicians from his province to oppose the federal budget because of a federal-provincial money dispute.

Mr. MacDonald also called on the province's senators to hold up the budget bill in the Senate.

Federal Finance Minister Jim Flaherty “has turned his back on Nova Scotians, and our quiet talks are about to get a whole lot louder,” Mr. MacDonald said in a news release Sunday.

The Premier's statement highlights a growing rift in the Tory political family in Atlantic Canada. "

Link

First Williams, then Casey, now MacDonald...

Whiners from welfare provinces snivelling and bitching because they've now got money rolling in from natural resources but they want their welfare too. Let there be no mistake, whenever one the welfare premiers starts talking about "transfer payments" what he means is "Ontario's money". The welfare money these provinces get comes from Alberta and Ontario - mostly Ontario. They want to keep getting welfare cheques even while the cheques roll in from their new job!

Here's my advise to them - SEPARATE! PLEASE! GO AWAY! And take Quebec with you.

[oogie]

Whiners from welfare provinces snivelling and bitching because they've now got money rolling in from natural resources but they want their welfare too. Let there be no mistake, whenever one the welfare premiers starts talking about "transfer payments" what he means is "Ontario's money". The welfare money these provinces get comes from Alberta and Ontario - mostly Ontario. They want to keep getting welfare cheques even while the cheques roll in from their new job!

Here's my advise to them - SEPARATE! PLEASE! GO AWAY! And take Quebec with you.

Somewhat of an unfounded accusation and view of the region you have there Argus.

The region simply wants what was promised it by the Government of Canada. Why shouldn't the province and the region keep the money as a result of its wealth of natural resources? Alberta gets to keep it's oil monies - why not NS and NF?

Hell, for that matter, proceeds from the fisheries should stay in the province and not be handed over to the feds.

[Argus]

Whiners from welfare provinces snivelling and bitching because they've now got money rolling in from natural resources but they want their welfare too. Let there be no mistake, whenever one the welfare premiers starts talking about "transfer payments" what he means is "Ontario's money". The welfare money these provinces get comes from Alberta and Ontario - mostly Ontario. They want to keep getting welfare cheques even while the cheques roll in from their new job!

Here's my advise to them - SEPARATE! PLEASE! GO AWAY! And take Quebec with you.

Somewhat of an unfounded accusation and view of the region you have there Argus.

The region simply wants what was promised it by the Government of Canada. Why shouldn't the province and the region keep the money as a result of its wealth of natural resources? Alberta gets to keep it's oil monies - why not NS and NF?

Hell, for that matter, proceeds from the fisheries should stay in the province and not be handed over to the feds.

Alberta does NOT get to keep all its money from natural resources, nor, for that matter, does Ontario. Alberta and Ontario are the source of the $13 billion that the feds give to the "have not" provinces. Or did you think they simply printed that money up in the basement? The equalization system effectively takes about $10 billion from Ontario and gives it out to the other provinces. Why should we continue to do that if a province is getting a pile of cash from natural gas revenue?

Mcguinty says Equalizatio unfair to Ontario

Equalization is forcing Ontario taxpayers to help finance lower taxes and higher health and education spending in other provinces, where they don't get to enjoy the benefits, Premier Dalton McGuinty charged Wednesday.

When I see the likes of Danny Williams, fuming, indignant, self-righteous, demanding more money be taken from Ontario and given to him, well it just doesn't fill me with the warm fuzzies for Newfoundland. Sorry.

[gc1765]

Things are heating up...

Link

[Michael Bluth]

Yup, smart move by Harper.

If these whiny little biotches think they deserve more money take 'em to court.

They are better off now than they were under Paul Martin.

Greedy buggers...

[runningdog]

Yup, smart move by Harper.

If these whiny little biotches think they deserve more money take 'em to court.

They are better off now than they were under Paul Martin.

Greedy buggers...

so you are refering to ALL the people of Atlantic Canada or just Nova Scotia and Nfld.?

btw, I think your post is something Greg should take a look at. very childish.

[Michael Bluth]

so you are refering to ALL the people of Atlantic Canada or just Nova Scotia and Nfld.?

btw, I think your post is something Greg should take a look at. very childish.

Not the people of the provinces. Their elected officials.

Please feel free to PM Greg if my post offended you.

[Argus]

Yup, smart move by Harper.

If these whiny little biotches think they deserve more money take 'em to court.

They are better off now than they were under Paul Martin.

Greedy buggers...

so you are refering to ALL the people of Atlantic Canada or just Nova Scotia and Nfld.?

btw, I think your post is something Greg should take a look at. very childish.

Then maybe you should send it to him. I'm sure he always appreciates hearing from you.

[Argus]

so you are refering to ALL the people of Atlantic Canada or just Nova Scotia and Nfld.?

btw, I think your post is something Greg should take a look at. very childish.

Not the people of the provinces. Their elected officials.

For my part, I make less distinction. These people are elected BY the people of the Atlantic provinces, and there is no evidence their antics and rants are unwelcome (nor unrewarded) by the voters out east.

[Michael Bluth]

For my part, I make less distinction. These people are elected BY the people of the Atlantic provinces, and there is no evidence their antics and rants are unwelcome (nor unrewarded) by the voters out east.

Fair enough.

But I think the distinction has to be drawn.

Without coming across as to elitist, the negotiations and analysis involved in creating Federal-Provincial accords and Federal budgets is far past the abilities and experience of the average voter.

Danny Williams, Rodney MacDonald and Bill Casey have boiled the message down to "Harper is screwing Atlantic Canada".

It is far more complicated than that.

I blame the political leaders for the message they are feeding their voters.

[Argus]

For my part, I make less distinction. These people are elected BY the people of the Atlantic provinces, and there is no evidence their antics and rants are unwelcome (nor unrewarded) by the voters out east.

Fair enough.

But I think the distinction has to be drawn.

Without coming across as to elitist, the negotiations and analysis involved in creating Federal-Provincial accords and Federal budgets is far past the abilities and experience of the average voter.

Danny Williams, Rodney MacDonald and Bill Casey have boiled the message down to "Harper is screwing Atlantic Canada".

It is far more complicated than that.

I blame the political leaders for the message they are feeding their voters.

There is no question that provincial leaders like to blame Ottawa for everything. It's a handy whipping boy and a handy excuse for their own incompetence and inactivity on key economic issues. By blaming Ottawa they can throw up their hands and say "Whataya gonna do!? Not my fault! Blame those guys!"

And it seems to play well.

What gets me in all this indignation and self-righteousness coming from the affected provinces is the complete lack of acknolwedgement that all those billions of dollars are coming from Ontario and Alberta, and that without that we in Ontario and Alberta could enjoy much better government services and still have lower taxes. Now what are the odds any "have not" province's government, or even the people who reside there, feel any sense of gratitude for that?

[NovaScotian]

Please. We don't want more equalization. We want to be able to use gas revenue to help our province without fear of losing equalization for a few years. Alberta had a similar deal early in its history, why not us?

[Michael Bluth]

Please. We don't want more equalization. We want to be able to use gas revenue to help our province without fear of losing equalization for a few years. Alberta had a similar deal early in its history, why not us?

You have had the deal. It is far more than a "few years" you are talking about.

Alberta had 7 years. 1957 to 1964 to develop its oil industry.

The first Canada-Newfoundland Atlantic Accord was signed in 1985.

The first Canada-Nova Scotia Atlantic Accourd was signed in 1986.

Here is the link.

[Argus]

Please. We don't want more equalization. We want to be able to use gas revenue to help our province without fear of losing equalization for a few years. Alberta had a similar deal early in its history, why not us?

How many years in "a few"? Twenty? Thirty? You've already had twenty years. And in the "changes" to the accord that Nova Scotia is complaining about the changes would only take place in the future, somewhere between 5-13 years away depending on how much you make from oil.

[NovaScotian]

For my part, I make less distinction. These people are elected BY the people of the Atlantic provinces, and there is no evidence their antics and rants are unwelcome (nor unrewarded) by the voters out east.

Fair enough.

But I think the distinction has to be drawn.

Without coming across as to elitist, the negotiations and analysis involved in creating Federal-Provincial accords and Federal budgets is far past the abilities and experience of the average voter.

Danny Williams, Rodney MacDonald and Bill Casey have boiled the message down to "Harper is screwing Atlantic Canada".

It is far more complicated than that.

I blame the political leaders for the message they are feeding their voters.

There is no question that provincial leaders like to blame Ottawa for everything. It's a handy whipping boy and a handy excuse for their own incompetence and inactivity on key economic issues. By blaming Ottawa they can throw up their hands and say "Whataya gonna do!? Not my fault! Blame those guys!"

And it seems to play well.

What gets me in all this indignation and self-righteousness coming from the affected provinces is the complete lack of acknolwedgement that all those billions of dollars are coming from Ontario and Alberta, and that without that we in Ontario and Alberta could enjoy much better government services and still have lower taxes. Now what are the odds any "have not" province's government, or even the people who reside there, feel any sense of gratitude for that?

Sorry, but Ottawa does share a good portion of the blame for the current economic state of the region. Just has the federal government shares a good portion of the cheer for Ontario's economic success .But lets not cover the whole region with a blank and say its a mess. There are a lot of economic success stories coming out of the region. Halifax and surrounding communities are doing very well. Unemployment in the region is quite low compared to the past. Halifax has an employment rate far lower then the national average for example(4.7%).

Don't get me wrong. I am a big critic of a lot of the silly things the Atlantic region does, but we are not an independent state and decisions made to help central Canada often hurt peripheral regions such as the Atlantic.

[NovaScotian]

You have had the deal. It is far more than a "few years" you are talking about.

Alberta had 7 years. 1957 to 1964 to develop its oil industry.

The first Canada-Newfoundland Atlantic Accord was signed in 1985.

The first Canada-Nova Scotia Atlantic Accourd was signed in 1986.

Here is the link.

First, its not that cut and dry. Alberta's oil industry started in 1947. It wasn't until 1957 that the equalization program began and it ended in 1964. So that is 17 years.

In the Atlantic it is slower because its offshore. But

" Normally, under the equalization scheme, for every dollar increase in a province's treasury, its equalization payments go down a dollar. However, if a province loses a dollar for every dollar it makes from the sale of its energy reserves, there's no incentive to develop them at all.

That's why, in 1994, the federal government implemented the "generic solution" under which Ottawa takes back 70 cents in equalization for every dollar in energy royalties. The deal applies only to Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, Quebec and Saskatchewan. "

That is not exactly the same thing Alberta had. AND

"The Nova Scotia deal offers 10 years of protection from reduction in equalization payments. The deal initially began in 1993-94, but the protection start date was later changed to 2000-01, giving Nova Scotia protection until the 2010-11 fiscal year. "

So it has hardly been 20 years of total protection from claw back.

[Michael Bluth]

First, its not that cut and dry. Alberta's oil industry started in 1947. It wasn't until 1957 that the equalization program began and it ended in 1964. So that is 17 years.

First things first.

Why does 1947 to 1957 count if there wasn't even an equalization program?

Isn't the complaint about keeping money from equalization to develp the energy industry?

[HistoryBuff44]

For some reason this seems a little off to me.

Saskatchewan Premier has asked the provinces' MPs not to vote for the budget. Now correct me if im wrong but isnt the sask govt NDP? and yet the province doesnt have any NPD MPs (i think most are Cons).... doesnt that kinda mean that the people of sask wanted conservative representation in Ottawa and not NDP? why should the MPs even listen to a provincial govts' orders? they are separate branches for a reason.

In another note this dispute seems to me like another good reason why senators should be elected, then they would be obliged to do what their ridings want.

[Michael Bluth]

Saskatchewan Premier has asked the provinces' MPs not to vote for the budget. Now correct me if im wrong but isnt the sask govt NDP? and yet the province doesnt have any NPD MPs (i think most are Cons).... doesnt that kinda mean that the people of sask wanted conservative representation in Ottawa and not NDP? why should the MPs even listen to a provincial govts' orders? they are separate branches for a reason.

In another note this dispute seems to me like another good reason why senators should be elected, then they would be obliged to do what their ridings want.

Yeah, the Saskatchewan thing is pretty baffling.

Strong Conservative MPs, don't seem them listening to Calvert on this one.

Another great reason why the Senate needs to be elected.

If the Senate had the legitimacy of being elected then they could force the Government back to the negotiating table. Now, bleh. Liberal hacks telling the elected Conservative Government how to proceed? No thanks.

[Topaz]

Let's not get away from the problem. The problem is that the government is NOT honouring the contract which IT signed with these provinces. They tried to change it and thought they could get it done but that's not the way it is! Yes, I'd take to court and when Harper loses this, he can also lose the election and so will the other Cons that stood behind him! This is a very good time to bring back the Progressive Conservations and let the Allaince fall were they should be...in last place. Where would that put Peter McKAY?? I guess part of the Alliance Party.

[geoffrey]

If Nova Scotia gets more under this deal then the Atlantic Accord (which it does IMO), it's time they shut up.

I don't see the point in bitching when you get more. Spoiled brats. If they are that ungrateful for the last 20 years of handouts then I think it's about time we cut them off. Enough is enough. If they don't want our money, then let's stop giving it to them.