jbg Posted October 27, 2008 Report Posted October 27, 2008 It goes to show that Khadr is Canadian. It may go to show that ability to play hockey should be part of an immigration screening process though. No, but not having one foot here, one foot in A-stan should be part of an immigration screening process. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Peter F Posted October 27, 2008 Report Posted October 27, 2008 No, but not having one foot here, one foot in A-stan should be part of an immigration screening process. Our boys and girls are fighting and dying for the people of Afghanistan. Are these people not worthy of immigration? Besides, Omar was - what...let me look it up...born in Toronto. He didn't immigrate at all. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
M.Dancer Posted October 27, 2008 Report Posted October 27, 2008 His citizenship is a non issue. He is a waste of skin regardless of origin. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
jbg Posted October 28, 2008 Report Posted October 28, 2008 Our boys and girls are fighting and dying for the people of Afghanistan. Are these people not worthy of immigration?It's better to create conditions for people that don't really fit into our culture that enable them to stay put. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Hcheh Posted October 28, 2008 Report Posted October 28, 2008 Our boys and girls are fighting and dying for the people of Afghanistan. Are these people not worthy of immigration?Besides, Omar was - what...let me look it up...born in Toronto. He didn't immigrate at all. But his father was born somewhere else.. Anyway, it is irrelevant to say that Omar was born in Canada, that was just a matter of luck. His allegiances lie elsewhere, I could care less if he was born in Canada. Quote
Peter F Posted October 28, 2008 Report Posted October 28, 2008 It's better to create conditions for people that don't really fit into our culture that enable them to stay put. Hmmm. Food for thought. I wonder what conditions are required to stem the flow of Afghan immigrants? Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
Mr.Canada Posted October 31, 2008 Report Posted October 31, 2008 I'll be waving a large "Thank you for taking out he trash!" placard in front of the US embassy when they execute him. Well probably not, as I actually work and don't have a lot of time for yelling into megaphones like the urban terror groups the government funds. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
Kitchener Posted November 2, 2008 Report Posted November 2, 2008 Besides, Omar was - what...let me look it up...born in Toronto. He didn't immigrate at all. But his father was born somewhere else.. Anyway, it is irrelevant to say that Omar was born in Canada, that was just a matter of luck. Then it's irrelevant that you were born here, too; it was just a matter of luck. That should be a reductio, but now that I see it written out, I find it strangely reassuring. I find your attitudes no more Canadian than I find the Khadrs'. Quote
Hcheh Posted November 3, 2008 Report Posted November 3, 2008 Then it's irrelevant that you were born here, too; it was just a matter of luck. That should be a reductio, but now that I see it written out, I find it strangely reassuring. I find your attitudes no more Canadian than I find the Khadrs'. As a matter of fact, I was not born here.. and yes, if I was, I would have considered it a matter of luck. However, I, along with many other Canadians, identify myself as a Canadian (and ONLY Canadian, none of this hyphenated crap) because I share all the Canadian values, respect the Canadian law and people, and I honour my Canadian citizenship. When you have somebody born in Canada, and then the person is against Canada, how can you say that the basis of being Canadian is just being born here? Is a person able to choose where he wants to be born? I could have been born anywhere, I could have been born in China, Japan, Denmark, Germany, Switzerland and I still would have ended up in Canada. So yes, I do consider it a matter of very fortunate luck that someone is able to find himself being born in the greatest country on earth - but it is arbitrary when it comes to your love for the country and all that matters. Quote
Kitchener Posted November 3, 2008 Report Posted November 3, 2008 When you have somebody born in Canada, and then the person is against Canada, how can you say that the basis of being Canadian is just being born here? Because that is part of how the word is defined. Natality is sufficient for citizenship. Being born with Cystic Fibrosis is not in tension with being opposed to Cystic Fibrosis. There are many properties that one can possess in spite of not supporting, or even actively opposing, those properties. You might think that someone is a lousy Canadian, but that doen't make them non-Canadian. Quote
Hcheh Posted November 3, 2008 Report Posted November 3, 2008 Because that is part of how the word is defined. Natality is sufficient for citizenship.Being born with Cystic Fibrosis is not in tension with being opposed to Cystic Fibrosis. There are many properties that one can possess in spite of not supporting, or even actively opposing, those properties. You might think that someone is a lousy Canadian, but that doen't make them non-Canadian. Well I do understand that technically, Khadr is a Canadian by birth and that being born here automatically makes you a Canadian. However, it is only a technicality, I am not ashamed to be Canadian because of him, he does not share our views and values - he is only a Canadian through a technicality. I will not hold him in high regard just because he was born here, as I said, it doesn't matter where he was born. Born citizens and naturalized citizens to me are 100% completely and totally the same thing. I am also pretty sure that people would be a lot more furious if he was not born in Canada, but was a citizen anyway.. So I guess he did get lucky Quote
Kitchener Posted November 3, 2008 Report Posted November 3, 2008 Well I do understand that technically, Khadr is a Canadian by birth and that being born here automatically makes you a Canadian. However, it is only a technicality, I am not ashamed to be Canadian because of him, he does not share our views and values - he is only a Canadian through a technicality. Since by "through a technicality" you seem to mean "by clearly satisfying the core definition", it would seem that every citizen is a citizen merely on a technicality -- yours rather more technical than his, in one quite obvious sense. Quote
Hcheh Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 Since by "through a technicality" you seem to mean "by clearly satisfying the core definition", it would seem that every citizen is a citizen merely on a technicality -- yours rather more technical than his, in one quite obvious sense. yes , I suppose obtaining citizenship is all about technicalities; all one has to do is meet the requirements and you are off the hook. Yes we are all citizens by "technicalities" because we all fulfilled some criteria and thus was admitted as a citizen. However, after we obtain that citizenship, we have honoured our Canadian nationalities by upholding the social, political and economic values of the country. We have succeeded in honouring our social values, and this is where Khadr failed. "Citizenship" should not stop after the obtainment of the status, but it should be honoured and carried out during our time as Canadians as well. That is what I mean by how Khadr has fulfilled the technical requirements for citizenship (as well all have), but nothing more Quote
Hcheh Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 yours rather more technical than his, in one quite obvious sense. Yes good point. However, it could be the other way around depending if you have a traditional view or a progressive view on citizenship Quote
Wild Bill Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 Yes good point. However, it could be the other way around depending if you have a traditional view or a progressive view on citizenship There's that word "progressive" again, implying that one view is NON "progressive". Doubleplusungood! Anyhow, the argument seems to be revolving around lawyer nitpicking. Perhaps it would be easier to define the technical details as the letter of the law and our cultural values (like not blowing up innocents) as its SPIRIT! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Hcheh Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 There's that word "progressive" again, implying that one view is NON "progressive". Doubleplusungood!Anyhow, the argument seems to be revolving around lawyer nitpicking. Perhaps it would be easier to define the technical details as the letter of the law and our cultural values (like not blowing up innocents) as its SPIRIT! Well, I meant one condition was MORE progressive than the other. Anyhow, yes, the technical details are only concerned with the law, and the spirit of the citizenship is within the cultural values. That is a good way to put it.. However, I do think that the "spirit" is just as important, if not perhaps more important, than the technical aspects. That is where we succeeded and that is where Khadr failed. Sure, by law he is just as Canadian as me and you... but is he upholding the Canadian spirit? Does he share our social values and outlook on things? Sure he is Canadian, he has the papers to prove it - but actions speak louder than words my friend Quote
Wild Bill Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 Well, I meant one condition was MORE progressive than the other. Anyhow, yes, the technical details are only concerned with the law, and the spirit of the citizenship is within the cultural values. That is a good way to put it.. However, I do think that the "spirit" is just as important, if not perhaps more important, than the technical aspects. That is where we succeeded and that is where Khadr failed. Sure, by law he is just as Canadian as me and you... but is he upholding the Canadian spirit? Does he share our social values and outlook on things? Sure he is Canadian, he has the papers to prove it - but actions speak louder than words my friend "Sure he is Canadian, he has the papers to prove it - but actions speak louder than words my friend" Exactly! We agree. Today too many of us seem to get all anal-retentive about nitpicking details and forget about the spirit behind the rules. We write rule books to try to ensure positive results, NOT to try to achieve blind adherence to rules! Perhaps more than anything, citizenship should represent a core culture. Those that prefer to scorn it should not be entitled to its protection. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Kitchener Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 "Sure he is Canadian, he has the papers to prove it - but actions speak louder than words my friend"Exactly! We agree. Today too many of us seem to get all anal-retentive about nitpicking details and forget about the spirit behind the rules. We write rule books to try to ensure positive results, NOT to try to achieve blind adherence to rules! Perhaps more than anything, citizenship should represent a core culture. Those that prefer to scorn it should not be entitled to its protection. Well, they're trying tribalism in various other parts of the world. Keep an eye on how that's working out, hm? I prefer the rule of law, myself. Quote
Hcheh Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 "Sure he is Canadian, he has the papers to prove it - but actions speak louder than words my friend"Exactly! We agree. Today too many of us seem to get all anal-retentive about nitpicking details and forget about the spirit behind the rules. We write rule books to try to ensure positive results, NOT to try to achieve blind adherence to rules! Perhaps more than anything, citizenship should represent a core culture. Those that prefer to scorn it should not be entitled to its protection. Yes, we do agree then.. By law, Khadr may be identified as a "Canadian", because he was born here. He is only a Canadian by technicality.. and we are not robots, we can see that he is not one of us, born here or not. Perhaps more than anything, citizenship should represent a core culture. Yes, it should. Assimilation into culture is the best and only way we can ever expect unity and true "multiculturalism". It isn't "white" culture, it isn't "black" culture, it isn't Asian culture.. It is just Canadian culture. Canadians are better than that, we have a culture that is beyond ethnicity Diefenbaker said it best: "I am the first prime minister of this country of neither altogether English or French origin. So I determined to bring about a Canadian citizenship that knew no hyphenated consideration....I'm very happy to be able to say that in the House of Commons today in my party we have members of Italian, Dutch, German, Scandinavian, Chinese and Ukrainian origin -- and they are all Canadians." -- John Diefenbaker, March 29, 1958 How I wish we could have this attitude.. Nowadays, everybody is too concerned about their past nationalities. Quote
Hcheh Posted November 4, 2008 Report Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) Perhaps more than anything, citizenship should represent a core culture. Those that prefer to scorn it should not be entitled to its protection. Well, they're trying tribalism in various other parts of the world. Keep an eye on how that's working out, hm?I prefer the rule of law, myself. It remains an elusive subject however, I don't see how we could remove citizens of rights and protections.. That just wouldn't work *EDIT: however, I suppose tighter immigration control and more difficult citizenship procedures would be a start. That might have solved this whole "Khadr was born in Canada but he is against us" thing. His parents or relatives would have had to immigrated here anyway. Edited November 4, 2008 by Hcheh Quote
jbg Posted November 10, 2008 Report Posted November 10, 2008 Yes, we do agree then.. By law, Khadr may be identified as a "Canadian", because he was born here. He is only a Canadian by technicality.. and we are not robots, we can see that he is not one of us, born here or not.He is a Canadian the same way Pierre Laval was a Frenchman or Julius Rosenberg was an American. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Peter F Posted November 10, 2008 Report Posted November 10, 2008 He is a Canadian the same way Pierre Laval was a Frenchman or Julius Rosenberg was an American. Or the same way I am a Canadian. Exactly the same actually. In fact, both me and Khadr are Canadians for one reason and only one reason - by Birth. There are no other reasons to qualify either Khadr or myself or Gilles Duceppe as Canadian. So I have no idea why all this 'culture' clap-trap is being dragged out. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
Wild Bill Posted November 10, 2008 Report Posted November 10, 2008 Or the same way I am a Canadian. Exactly the same actually. In fact, both me and Khadr are Canadians for one reason and only one reason - by Birth. There are no other reasons to qualify either Khadr or myself or Gilles Duceppe as Canadian. So I have no idea why all this 'culture' clap-trap is being dragged out. I would think that would be obvious! The "clap-trap" is dragged out to define which fellow citizens are worthy of our respect. Those that scorn our Canadian "clap-trap" can rot in Git-mo without triggering any feeling of guilt amongst the rest of us! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Oleg Bach Posted November 10, 2008 Report Posted November 10, 2008 Guys like that conspriacy nerd - Alex Jones would in the early broadcasts advocate armed insurection...Yet he walked free and continues to this day to harm the system - Americans are just a guilty of "freedom" as we are in regards to the Khdar family - why the hell do we have a system that is akin to inviting someone into your house that wants to kill your family - are we stupid. Quote
Radsickle Posted November 22, 2008 Report Posted November 22, 2008 It's amazing how many of you know Khadr so well as to consider him a `killer' or `anti-Canadian'. How many of you have met him? How many of you are regurgitating what you've heard instead of thinking and finding out the facts for yourselves? How old are you people? Canadians aren't a paranoid, angry mob on a witch-hunt. We don't imprison kids without trial and we don't torture people, especially our own. What's the average age in these forums, 14? Grow up. Quote
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