Jump to content

neocon death watch


Recommended Posts

Virtually nothing is entrenched in the constitution. Why are you arguing against the bleeding obvious? Are you suggesting that in real life, with a strong whip and strong party discipline, that the PMO is not far more powerful than the presidency? Surely not.
Party disipline only has power as long as MPs believe that their political futures are better served by toeing the party line. If the PMO went nuts like the Bush adminstration has you would see the rank and file MPs use their power and depose the PM.

Whatever. Pink elephants may thud onto the roof of Centre Block, permanently damaging the copper plate, but that's not within the scope of my example either, so I'll try to avoid that topic too. If you're going to nitpick, then lets say the PMO has much greater potential power than the presidency, even though in my example, during the Chretien years, it was de facto as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What Bush does is hurt Republican prospects every day he remains of office. Today John McCain basically ran out of money. His campaign is over because he is too closely linked to Bush.

You mean there won't be any Republicans besides John McCain? ...gee...I thought we had plenty to go around. Senator McCain's campaign is not "over".

His campaign may not be finished but I would say he is. He came down on the wrong side of shamigration. Bush's pardon for Libby was proper but that won't increase his standing with the base. That's looked upon as something that should have been done anyway. I heard that the backlash against the amnesty bill was so large that it took down the phone system on the hill. Congresses approval rating is lower than Bushes and Harry Ried is at 19% with Pelosi in the low thirty's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It looks like the Whitehouse is laying the groundwork for a full pardon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19583008/

Snow was pressed several times on whether the president might eventually grant a full pardon to Libby, who had been convicted of lying and conspiracy in the CIA leak investigation. The press secretary declined to say anything categorically.

"The reason I'm not going to say I'm not going to close a door on a pardon," Snow said, "Scooter Libby may petition for one."

"The president thinks that he has dealt with the situation properly," he added. "There is always a possibility or there's an avenue open for anybody to petition for consideration of a pardon."

I guess a President this far down in the polls feels he has nothing to lose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It will be interesting to see what the continued fall-out will be from the Bush decision.

http://hardblogger.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2.../02/254394.aspx

Chris Matthews lays it out.

Matthews thinks this decision wasn’t exactly a proud moment for the White House. “If the president were proud of his decision (and that’s his decision and his right to make it), he would have held something at the Rose Garden. He would have said it in person and not issued a statement on paper. He wouldn’t have done it on a 4th of July holiday period with everyone out of town. He would have done it with some flourish and some pride.”

Republicans are being inconsistent in their support of the decision.

“The irony in this case is that the president said he would 'deal with anyone who leaked,' and now his way of dealing with Scooter Libby is to pardon him.”

“For him to say that the penalty is 'excessive' may well be true, but it was the same crime that President Bill Clinton was impeached for by a Republican House of Representatives and in which 50 U.S. senators, Republicans, voted to remove him from office. So Republicans as a party thought perjury and obstruction of justice were sufficient to remove a twice-elected president from office. And now the president is saying that 30 months in prison is an excessive penalty for the same exact crime. It’s inconsistent.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But President Clinton never faced 30 months in prison....just a lifetime with Hillary! President Bush did what he thought was right, balancing Libby's options with a felony conviction. He could have given Libby a full pardon last year.

Clinton also lied under oath in a federal court...and actually made money on the deal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gosh! Someone actually thinks Chris Matthews is a journalist?

That's pretty funny. You'll be praising Althouse's reasoned jurisprudence and Coulter's modesty and civility next.

Actually, I don't consider him to be a journalist. I think of him an entertainer in much the same way as Leno and Letterman.

I still think he is right about the public regarding the decision as being inconsistent for the President and the Republican party. No matter how they justify it, it is going to stick in the craw.

If Bush was proud of being the decider on this, he would have chosen to make an statement rather than issue a statement and then run for the hills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As if Bush was proud of being the decider on this, he would have chosen to make an statement rather than issue a statement and then run for the hills.

As opposed to waiting until the last day of office? Clemency will nearly always make somebody unhappy, from the family members of a killer's victim to the trivial but oh so important white-collar criminals who serve as pawns in political power struggles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

what has yet to be touched upon is the fact that the sentence as given represents the fact that scooter has refused to provide information that would provide investigators with further information into a criminal investigation.

just after the sentencing, bush indicated that he had no plans to get involved. polls and public opinion are certainly not in favour at the moment. whats changed?

the white house is in total stonewall mode at the moment. from millions of 'lost emails' to confrontation regarding requests for internal materials with subjects ranging from this case to the u.s. attorneys office firings and the case for the iraq war.

to anyone sensible, scooter is taking the fall for the vice president or even the president (but most likely the vp). i suspect that scooter has made it clear that the president will step in otherwise he could talk.

in general, i believe that this small group of men who took control of the most powerful country on earth have failed in their grand plan. a plan to change the u.s. government in a way that provided them with no restrictions on their actions and to create a virtual hegemony towards the 'new american empire'.

while a better topic for a new thread, i suspect that a number of factors have brought these men down including iraq and the fact that liberty is ingrained too deeply in american life and values.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

May I point out to those about Clinton pardons. He pardon people who were already serving their time. Bush, pardon him BEFORE serving any. I think Cheney put the pressure on Bush because Cheney knew HE was the one that outed Plame and Scooter took the rap! As we all know Bush doesn't give pardons, as governor of Texas how many did he pardon from death row???? Bush is the acting President of the US but Cheny is the GODFATHER of the White House and only time will prove just how much power he had !!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

May I point out to those about Clinton pardons. He pardon people who were already serving their time. Bush, pardon him BEFORE serving any. I think Cheney put the pressure on Bush because Cheney knew HE was the one that outed Plame and Scooter took the rap! As we all know Bush doesn't give pardons, as governor of Texas how many did he pardon from death row???? Bush is the acting President of the US but Cheny is the GODFATHER of the White House and only time will prove just how much power he had !!

Nonsense....Bush did not "pardon" Scooter Libby...he commuted his sentence to remove jail time. President Bush's "pardons" are consistent with those of any previous president, including Clinton:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peopl..._George_W._Bush

A Texas governor can only pardon or commute a death row inmate upon recommendation from the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles. Governor Bush did so pardon in one death row case, and granted about one dozen other pardons.

George W. Bush is not acting..he is the President of the United States. Vice President Cheney, on the other hand, is GOD. They make a great team!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

May I point out to those about Clinton pardons. He pardon people who were already serving their time.
No. Marc Rich, who was pardoned by Clinton was living in Europe, fleeing from American authorities. The guy was facing convictions of tax evasion, fraud and trading with Iran during the hostage crisis. He was issued a pardon because his wife gave large amounts of money to the Democratic Party and in particular Clinton's Presidential library.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Tell a friend

    Love Repolitics.com - Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      10,751
    • Most Online
      1,403

    Newest Member
    Betsy Smith
    Joined
  • Recent Achievements

    • wwef235 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • phoenyx75 went up a rank
      Apprentice
    • User went up a rank
      Mentor
    • NakedHunterBiden earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Videospirit earned a badge
      One Month Later
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...