Winnipeg Better Than Calgary

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070502/.../top_ten_cities

Go west isn't good advice if what you want to do is wind up in most of Canada's top 10 places to live.

MoneySense magazine has come out with its second annual list of Canada's Best Places to Live. It ranked 123 Canadian communities with a population greater than 10,000, crunching the numbers on everything from the weather, real estate values, income levels and unemployment rates to discretionary income, crime rates and signs of prosperity.

The country's capital came out on top, with mid-sized and smaller cities filling out the top 10.

Ottawa was rated as Canada's best overall place to live, said MoneySense features editor Duncan Hood, because it didn't do poorly in any category, had high household incomes but the housing is still relatively affordable - leaving people with more discretionary income. He said MoneySense thinks that means a higher quality of life.

Rounding out the top 10 were Halifax, Quebec City, Guelph, Ont., Fredericton, N.B., Kingston, Ont., Moncton, N.B., London, Ont., Victoria and Gander, NL.

They penalize the boom towns in this study. Calgary finishes poorer than Winnipeg.

[guyser]

Woo hoo number 12 . In your face Port Alberni !!!!

Can anyone really put much stock , either way, in these? They are fun to look at, but really, what else?

I visit Ottawa a lot, or rather used to, and all the museums are cool, and plenty of nice things there , but the old adage "the town that fun forgot" still applies.

[mikedavid00]

The country's capital came out on top, with mid-sized and smaller cities filling out the top 10.

They penalize the boom towns in this study. Calgary finishes poorer than Winnipeg.

Ok I grew up in Ottawa my whole life. I know a bit about it.

The fact is anyone who has money and happy life in Ottawa works for the gov't. Fat and happy. Most of these people are *NOT* from Ottawa who can speak French.

If you are an Anglo in ottawa you are worth nothing.

You have 1 college and 2 universities in Ottawa. With over half of the student from 'somewhere else' like Montreal or Toronto and abroad.

These grad's might get a gov't job, most go back home.

Ottawa has no natural economy, 30% of all immigrants are refugee's, and I litterally had to move to the GTA because Ottawa simply had nothing.

The stats are garbage. The best place to live is the place where the common person has money and dream. That is not Ottawa I can say that first hand.

[guyser]

Ok I grew up in Ottawa my whole life. I know a bit about it.

The fact is anyone who has money and happy life in Ottawa works for the gov't. Fat and happy. Most of these people are *NOT* from Ottawa who can speak French.

Thats funny, my brother and sis in law live there and are happy. A woman I know quite well started her business in Ottawa, and now is across the country in most every mall and major store in Canada. My uncle lived there for 30 years and had a great job. None of them worked for the Gov.

All of them are successful, anyway you measure it, so much for that!

If you are an Anglo in ottawa you are worth nothing.

I can PM you a set of telephone numbers and you can call them and say that.

You have 1 college and 2 universities in Ottawa. With over half of the student from 'somewhere else' like Montreal or Toronto and abroad.

Like Hamilton (McMaster) U of Guelph, U of Windsor , Montreals Mcgill ?? They all go home after graduation .

.

[sharkman]

I looked around, but couldn't find the ACTUAL list anywhere. What is it, some kind of secret, or do they titilate you with this 'list' in the hopes that you'll buy their magazine. I wanted to know where, if at all, my town is.

[gc1765]

I'd pick Victoria as the nicest place. Only problem is housing is fairly expensive.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

I heard one of the guys who wrote this article and did the research on the radio today...

Apparently they tried not to use any subjective criteria like: nicest people, prettiest view, etc etc...

They only used things they could put numbers on... like average income, average housing cost, etc etc... to me it sounded like a pretty fair and accurate way to compare places.

I would also be interested in seeing the entire list...

[Chuck U. Farlie]

oh... that wasn't hard to find... here it is: http://www.canadianbusiness.com/rankings/b...tolive/list.jsp?

[sharkman]

Good find, but yet another bias filled 'study' with ontario coloured glasses.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

how exactly is it Ontario biased?

They compared salary with housing costs, unemployment rate, growth rate, murder rate, climate, etc...

How exactly did any of these factors unfairly choose Ontario?

[sharkman]

2 B.C. cities in the first 50. B.C. is gorgious, but I suppose it's a good thing to keep it under wraps.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

Their criteria, in case you were too lazy to find it yourself:

To come up with this year's ranking, we started by gathering information on the 123 Census Metropolitan Areas and Census Agglomeration areas that had a population of 10,000 or greater (and for which the required data was available).

Next we ranked each of those 123 communities by the following categories. The categories were scored out of a given number of points (in brackets next to each category name). The higher the potential points, the more weight that category had in our final ranking.

Weather (out of a total of 20 points)

This category included four sub-categories: The total amount of precipitation in a year (out of 6 points; the closer it was to the ideal amount of 900 mL/year, the better), the number of wet days (6 points; the lower the better), the number of days where the temperature drops below 0°C (6 points; the lower the better), and the number of days where the temperature is higher than 30°C (2 points; the lower the better). Source: Environment Canada.

Housing (15 points)

This category included two sub-categories: Average absolute house prices (7.5 points; the higher the average house price the lower the score), and time to buy a house (7.5 points; this was calculated by dividing the average house prices by the average pre-tax household incomes for the community, and the higher the number of years to buy a house, the lower the score). Sources: house prices from MLS, average estimated 2007 household incomes from Canadian Demographics, FPMarkets/MapInfo.

Household Income (5 points)

The higher the average household income, the higher the score. Source: 2007 estimates as per Canadian Demographics, FPMarkets/MapInfo.

Discretionary income (5 points)

We calculated the average discretionary income as a percentage of total household income. The higher the percentage, the higher the score. Source: 2007 estimates as per Canadian Demographics, FPMarkets/MapInfo.

New Cars (5 points)

We looked at the number of 2003 to 2005 model year vehicles as a percentage of the total vehicles in the community in 2005. The higher the percentage, the higher the score. Source: Canadian Demographics, FPMarkets/MapInfo.

Unemployment (10 points)

The lower the unemployment rate, the higher the score. Source: 2007 estimates as per Canadian Demographics, FPMarkets/MapInfo.

Walk/Bike to Work (10 points)

The higher the percentage of people who walk or bike to work in the community, the higher the score. Source: Statistics Canada, 2001 data.

Population Growth (10 points)

The average population growth in Canada between 2001 and 2006 was approximately 6%. We determined that the ideal growth rate for a community would be higher than the national average, so we chose an ideal rate of just under 7.5% in total over the 2001 to 2006 time period. The closer a community's actual growth rate was to this ideal rate, the more points it got. Communities with a negative growth rate received zero points. Source: Statistics Canada

Crime (7.5 points)

The total number of homicides in each community per 100,000 population. The higher the number of homicides, the lower the score. Source: Statistics Canada.

Medical Professionals (7.5 points)

The number of physicians, dentists, optometrists, chiropractors, etc. per 1,000 population in each community in 2001. The higher the number of health professionals, the higher the score. Source: Statistics Canada.

Amenities (5 points)

We awarded up to 2 points for public transit and 1 point each for a hospital, university or college. Sources: Statistics Canada, web searches.

Attractions (up to 4 bonus points)

Communities received 1 bonus point for each of the following: having a casino, being a provincial or federal capital, having a major sports team, and having a major attraction such as a theatre or ski hill. Cities with multiple teams or attractions only received 1 point per category.

We summed the points earned in each category and gave each community a total score out of 100 (out of 104 if you include bonus points). The communities were then ranked by their total score to produce our 2007 table of Canada's Best Places to Live.

[jdobbin]

oh... that wasn't hard to find... here it is: http://www.canadianbusiness.com/rankings/b...tolive/list.jsp?

I'm surprised how many B.C. cities came in so poorly.

[gc1765]

2 B.C. cities in the first 50. B.C. is gorgious, but I suppose it's a good thing to keep it under wraps.

ssshhhhhhh

[August1991]

Winnipeggers are debating whether a controversial sweatshirt is an example of freedom of expression or a gag that preys on victims of crime.

Novelty shop owner Roman Panchyshyn, 47, said he has sold about 100 shirts proclaiming Winnipeg as the "Murder Capital of Canada." Panchyshyn said the shirts are a joke based in fact.

Winnipeg has the highest per capita murder rate among cities with populations of more than 500,000. There were 17 slayings in Winnipeg last year.

CBC

[jdobbin]

Winnipeggers are debating whether a controversial sweatshirt is an example of freedom of expression or a gag that preys on victims of crime.

Novelty shop owner Roman Panchyshyn, 47, said he has sold about 100 shirts proclaiming Winnipeg as the "Murder Capital of Canada." Panchyshyn said the shirts are a joke based in fact.

Winnipeg has the highest per capita murder rate among cities with populations of more than 500,000. There were 17 slayings in Winnipeg last year.

CBC

I see you linked a 2002 story here. What gives?

Edmonton is now the murder capital of Canada. I have nothing against Edmonton at all and only point this out because you seem to have taken this as an opportunity to bash Winnipeg.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/20...de.html?ref=rss

I found the list to be a curiosity and only made the title Winnipeg Better than Calgary to show that it is not the typical story you would see in the media. Given a chance, I was also going to say just how high on the list cities like Quebec placed.

[jdobbin]

Woo hoo number 12 . In your face Port Alberni !!!!

Can anyone really put much stock , either way, in these? They are fun to look at, but really, what else?

I visit Ottawa a lot, or rather used to, and all the museums are cool, and plenty of nice things there , but the old adage "the town that fun forgot" still applies.

Ottawa is not the only place in Ontario that seems to have lots of activity on the arts and culture front. I notice that Toronto has lots of building going on for galleries, museums and theatres.

I'm sure Toronto racked up good numbers in those categories.

A lot of the marks might have been lost on weather related issues.

[August1991]

I found the list to be a curiosity and only made the title Winnipeg Better than Calgary to show that it is not the typical story you would see in the media. Given a chance, I was also going to say just how high on the list cities like Quebec placed.

I read something recently about Winnipeg's murder rate and that's the article that came up when I did the search.

In Canada, I have lived in Ottawa, Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City. IMO, Quebec City is the most beautiful and life-affirming city in Canada. (Vancouver has the most beautiful natural environment.) Halifax seems a liveable city but I've never lived there.

I preferred Edmonton to Calgary. (Calgary's only advantage is that it's closer to the Rockies.)

I have only passed through Winnipeg but I have always had the impression that it was a city like St. Louis, once important but no longer.

Ottawa is an artificial place, a point on the map. I lived there for a year and I don't think I spent more than two weekends in the city.

Montreal is a complicated city and its surface appearance is very different from its true nature. I don't like it and its dishonesty. IMV, Toronto for different reasons is even worse. The idea of living in Toronto is truly depressing.

Canada has no city comparable to the large cities of the world. When a city reaches a population over 8 million or so, it changes. It defies comprehension.

[jdobbin]

I read something recently about Winnipeg's murder rate and that's the article that came up when I did the search.

In Canada, I have lived in Ottawa, Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City. IMO, Quebec City is the most beautiful and life-affirming city in Canada. (Vancouver has the most beautiful natural environment.) Halifax seems a liveable city but I've never lived there.

I preferred Edmonton to Calgary. (Calgary's only advantage is that it's closer to the Rockies.)

I have only passed through Winnipeg but I have always had the impression that it was a city like St. Louis, once important but no longer.

Ottawa is an artificial place, a point on the map. I lived there for a year and I don't think I spent more than two weekends in the city.

Montreal is a complicated city and its surface appearance is very different from its true nature. I don't like it and its dishonesty. IMV, Toronto for different reasons is even worse. The idea of living in Toronto is truly depressing.

Canada has no city comparable to the large cities of the world. When a city reaches a population over 8 million or so, it changes. It defies comprehension.

I've been to all the cities listed except Quebec City and Halifax. Anyone I know who has spent time in either city has extolled the virtues of both.

I think that if someone wants to be at the top of their game in business, the arts, the media and politics, you have to be in Toronto. It has many impressive qualities which are easy to love but easy to overwhelm.

I think Montreal is indeed fascinating and you could probably wander the city and live in each district and learn something new. I hope it never loses that quality but it seems that a lot of people recently said the suburbs are starting to come of age. What that means for a great city is hard to say.

What can you say about Vancouver but wow. One thing you've got to ask is: Does a city known for its natural beauty lose it if the population continues to crawl up the mountains? I think local people are asking that as well.

Calgary and Edmonton. They sort of remind of me what San Francisco and Los Angeles are like. There is no doubt they share the same province but each has remarkable differences. Edmonton has neighborhoods, culture and diversity. Calgary has hustle and bustle and a can do attitude.

Ottawa. I have really own seen the government side of Ottawa. I don't know that I can judge it because I felt it was hard to get to know. I found some of it remarkable but it seemed so many bright people were only guests in the city. I know that it isn't only a one industry town but I felt that when I was there.

Winnipeg is unlike St. Louis in that its population hasn't declined. It was indeed an important city for the west at one time but has slipped because of steady and often spectacular growth in its far western cousins. It will continue to grow with steady GDP growth and renewed revitalization that is taking place on many fronts.

[jbg]

Calgary and Edmonton. They sort of remind of me what San Francisco and Los Angeles are like. There is no doubt they share the same province but each has remarkable differences. Edmonton has neighborhoods, culture and diversity. Calgary has hustle and bustle and a can do attitude.

Having only been to Calgary, I can second that statement about it. As far as Calgary v. Edmonton when talking to Calgarians I'm an Oilers fan, when talking to an Edmontonian I'm a Flames fan.

[M.Dancer]

The country's capital came out on top, with mid-sized and smaller cities filling out the top 10.

They penalize the boom towns in this study. Calgary finishes poorer than Winnipeg.

Ok I grew up in Ottawa my whole life. I know a bit about it.

The fact is anyone who has money and happy life in Ottawa works for the gov't.

That's right...there is absolutely no High Tech industry in Ottawa.....which explain the super hign inductrial vacancy rate that hovers around 5%.....the fact that industrila growth isn't boomiong explains why the leasing jumped from around $40 a sq ft to $90 in just a few years.....because everyone with money works in Govt.....

[sharkman]

But lets face it, there is a higher % of Gov. employees in Ottawa than pretty much anywhere else.

[M.Dancer]

But lets face it, there is a higher % of Gov. employees in Ottawa than pretty much anywhere else.

You might think that but I bet as a pecentage Victoria or Iqaluit will be higher.

[stignasty]

To come up with this year's ranking, we started by gathering information on the 123 Census Metropolitan Areas and Census Agglomeration areas that had a population of 10,000 or greater (and for which the required data was available).

Next we ranked each of those 123 communities by the following categories. The categories were scored out of a given number of points (in brackets next to each category name). The higher the potential points, the more weight that category had in our final ranking.

Weather (out of a total of 20 points)

This category included four sub-categories: The total amount of precipitation in a year (out of 6 points; the closer it was to the ideal amount of 900 mL/year, the better), the number of wet days (6 points; the lower the better), the number of days where the temperature drops below 0°C (6 points; the lower the better), and the number of days where the temperature is higher than 30°C (2 points; the lower the better). Source: Environment Canada.

Housing (15 points)

This category included two sub-categories: Average absolute house prices (7.5 points; the higher the average house price the lower the score), and time to buy a house (7.5 points; this was calculated by dividing the average house prices by the average pre-tax household incomes for the community, and the higher the number of years to buy a house, the lower the score). Sources: house prices from MLS, average estimated 2007 household incomes from Canadian Demographics, FPMarkets/MapInfo.

Household Income (5 points)

The higher the average household income, the higher the score. Source: 2007 estimates as per Canadian Demographics, FPMarkets/MapInfo.

Discretionary income (5 points)

We calculated the average discretionary income as a percentage of total household income. The higher the percentage, the higher the score. Source: 2007 estimates as per Canadian Demographics, FPMarkets/MapInfo.

New Cars (5 points)

We looked at the number of 2003 to 2005 model year vehicles as a percentage of the total vehicles in the community in 2005. The higher the percentage, the higher the score. Source: Canadian Demographics, FPMarkets/MapInfo.

Unemployment (10 points)

The lower the unemployment rate, the higher the score. Source: 2007 estimates as per Canadian Demographics, FPMarkets/MapInfo.

Walk/Bike to Work (10 points)

The higher the percentage of people who walk or bike to work in the community, the higher the score. Source: Statistics Canada, 2001 data.

Population Growth (10 points)

The average population growth in Canada between 2001 and 2006 was approximately 6%. We determined that the ideal growth rate for a community would be higher than the national average, so we chose an ideal rate of just under 7.5% in total over the 2001 to 2006 time period. The closer a community's actual growth rate was to this ideal rate, the more points it got. Communities with a negative growth rate received zero points. Source: Statistics Canada

Crime (7.5 points)

The total number of homicides in each community per 100,000 population. The higher the number of homicides, the lower the score. Source: Statistics Canada.

Medical Professionals (7.5 points)

The number of physicians, dentists, optometrists, chiropractors, etc. per 1,000 population in each community in 2001. The higher the number of health professionals, the higher the score. Source: Statistics Canada.

Amenities (5 points)

We awarded up to 2 points for public transit and 1 point each for a hospital, university or college. Sources: Statistics Canada, web searches.

Attractions (up to 4 bonus points)

Communities received 1 bonus point for each of the following: having a casino, being a provincial or federal capital, having a major sports team, and having a major attraction such as a theatre or ski hill. Cities with multiple teams or attractions only received 1 point per category.

We summed the points earned in each category and gave each community a total score out of 100 (out of 104 if you include bonus points). The communities were then ranked by their total score to produce our 2007 table of Canada's Best Places to Live.

There are a lot of arbitrary values in here. For instance, who's to say that a growth rate of 7.5 is ideal? Is a Casino really a benefit to the city? I can see where claiming that more medical professionals make it a better place to live, but really, I think you could argue the idea that one city is better than another based on whether more people walk or drive to work.

[jdobbin]

There are a lot of arbitrary values in here. For instance, who's to say that a growth rate of 7.5 is ideal? Is a Casino really a benefit to the city? I can see where claiming that more medical professionals make it a better place to live, but really, I think you could argue the idea that one city is better than another based on whether more people walk or drive to work.

The list is extremely arbitrary. The criteria could be tweaked in any number of ways. It doesn't mean that it isn't interesting.

How one group ranks a city versus how another group does it is fascinating.