Taliban Prisoner Poll

[Keepitsimple]

Taliban Prisoner Poll

[M.Dancer]

I have a simple solution.

Stop taking prisoners

[Vancouver King]

James Travers in the Star had this to say:

"Day-by-day the prisoner narrative changes, leaving the lasting impression that Conservatives, like the military, consider prisoners a nuisance and miss the point that their humane treatment is an essential manifestation of the values Canadians are in Afghanistan dying to transplant."

http://www.thestar.com/article/209872

[BornAlbertan]

"their humane treatment is an essential manifestation of the values Canadians are in Afghanistan dying to transplant."

I just think we are wasting our time with the Middle East. If the people were ready for the democracy we in the Western World enjoy...no amount of tyranny by warlords or opressive governments could stop it. All through history before the UN or NATO when countries were opressed revolutions emerged. Maybe took a while...but when they were ready it happened.

Case in point: The Afghan police know damn well what our guys are there for. Why did they do what they have done that is now issue in Parliament? Easy answer: they aren't ready. They are stubborn and fundamentalist. Maybe not radical like the Taliban or the Ayatollah's...but they have staunch religious backing for their core beliefs.

We are simply wasting effort...but we can't pull out with the place as it is now either (because we are partly to blame!)

We are damned cause we did and we are damned cause we can't stop.

[betsy]

I'd say they've come a long way. Used to be, prisoners were just tied down on a stake and left to rot in the dessert.

I'm not worried about the Taliban prisoners. As long as our own soldiers do not indulge in torture...why should I care? WE'RE AT WAR!

Too bad if they get tortured by their own people. Brutality is part of the culture in that region.

Frankly, the majority of Canadians do not care!

It's only these Oppositions Leaders who are exploiting the issue for political points. These party leaders are making Canada look divided....at a war time when showing a united front is so crucial.

[kuzadd]

I'd say they've come a long way. Used to be, prisoners were just tied down on a stake and left to rot in the dessert.

I'm not worried about the Taliban prisoners. As long as our own soldiers do not indulge in torture...why should I care? WE'RE AT WAR!

Too bad if they get tortured by their own people. Brutality is part of the culture in that region.

Frankly, the majority of Canadians do not care!

It's only these Oppositions Leaders who are exploiting the issue for political points. These party leaders are making Canada look divided....at a war time when showing a united front is so crucial.

I'm not worried about the Taliban prisoners.

then please don't expect that Afghani's should be worried about Canadian prisoners either, right?

because

WE'RE AT WAR!

??????????

dunno why people don't grasp, it work's both ways, other then a thought process that's see's one side as righteous , except that's the way the other side see's it also, it's the most cockamamie thinking.

[betsy]

then please don't expect that Afghani's should be worried about Canadian prisoners either, right?

because WE'RE AT WAR!

Why should we expect them to be worried about our own soldiers? We are their enemy!

Why would you underestimate them and assume they'll think like our Opposition leaders?

They may be fanatics....but I don't think they're idiotic!

??????????

Oh I get it. This is the strategy like....."let's appease them, guys. Keep a low profile, and MAYBE they won't do any 9/11 on us."

It's not enough that our troops don't torture them....our troops must also protect them!

dunno why people don't grasp, it work's both ways, other then a thought process that's see's one side as righteous , except that's the way the other side see's it also, it's the most cockamamie thinking.

Heck, even Hitler thought he was righteous in ridding the world of Jews and other considered "garbage" of humanity.

Where did you ever see a war where-in soldiers protect their enemies???

What do you think this is? Paintball shooting?

Talk about cockamamie and unable to grasp! Stop spitting in the wind! It's not funny. Lol.

[betsy]

Right now, there is one big threat to the safety and well-being of our soldiers! Not to mention, the mission.

And it's not coming from the war-front.

It's coming from these party leaders scrambling over each other to score political points!

TELL THEM TO STOP TRYING TO DIVIDE THE COUNTRY.

As leaders, they should spend the effort by leading our country to present a united front!

[Figleaf]

The irony is it could have been a small issue, except the CPC mishandling of it led to a bigger issue.

The government could, when this first came up, have simply said: 'Thanks for bringing this to our attention; we will act immediately to bring our practices in line with the British and Dutch and expect this to be completed by XX date. Next issue?'

But noooooo, they've got to weasel and dodge, dither and kvetch, accuse others of being unpatriotic, and ultimately look like fools and let Canada's reputation suffer another small cut.

What makes governments make such poor choices?

[normanchateau]

The irony is it could have been a small issue, except the CPC mishandling of it led to a bigger issue.

Mishandling is a charitable term. Some view Stephen Harper's public support for Minister O'Connor as far worse than mishandling. I enjoyed this headline in the Globe and Mail:

"PM stands by O'Connor -- but for the wrong reasons."

Conservative sources told The Globe and Mail yesterday (April 25, 2007) that despite pervasive recognition of Mr. O'Connor's failings, Mr. Harper has no plan to let the Minister go because it could be interpreted as a lack of commitment.

"If it's interpreted as us wavering, or any weakening of resolve that somehow we're on the wrong course, those questions would get asked," a source told The Globe and Mail. "The Taliban would see it as a positive thing."

There is something remarkably familiar about those words. They are reminiscent of what George Bush said when he still supported Rumsfeld. But eventually Bush got rid of Rumsfeld just as Harper will get rid of O'Connor. Harper made a serious error when he first appointed a former defence lobbyist as Minister of Defence. Now he is compounding that error through indecisiveness. No one really believes that he's keeping O'Connor on because he fears firing him would play into the hands of the Taliban.

Does Stephen Harper believe that not firing an incompetent like O'Connor shows strength on Harper's part?

If so, he's mistaken.

[jdobbin]

Right now, there is one big threat to the safety and well-being of our soldiers! Not to mention, the mission.

And it's not coming from the war-front.

It isn't a threat to the safety of soldiers to make sure the Afghan people don't turn against them because they fear being tortured.

[Figleaf]

...indulge in torture...

There's just so much revealed in a turn of phrase sometimes.

[jdobbin]

As leaders, they should spend the effort by leading our country to present a united front!

United front is how the war to Iraq was approached. There was no room for discussion, debate or any other second thoughts.

This is probably why Iraq is the success it is today.

[betsy]

...indulge in torture...

There's just so much revealed in a turn of phrase sometimes.

... weasel...

...or in one simple word.

Well, at least you three (Fig, Norm, Dob) proves a very good sample of a united front. The holy other three (Jack, Dion and Gil) could've learned a lot from you. Too bad you're facing the wrong direction.

[betsy]

The irony is it could have been a small issue, except the CPC mishandling of it led to a bigger issue.

Mishandling is a charitable term. Some view Stephen Harper's public support for Minister O'Connor as far worse than mishandling. I enjoyed this headline in the Globe and Mail:

"PM stands by O'Connor -- but for the wrong reasons."

Mishandling and mistakes....well, who don't make any mistakes? History is riddled with mistakes.

What political party leader didn't make any mistakes?

The Liberals MISHANDLED and made terrible mistakes. We're still uncovering those mistakes. Although I must say...the Liberals seems to have a penchant for mis-handling taxpayers' money.

The Liberals practical made the mistake of weakening our military....that we even had to hitch a ride with the USA just so we could reach another country desperately in need of aid.

Ignatieff made a terrible blunder during the Lebanon war. Nobody asked for his head on a silver platter!

Anyway....that's for another topic. All I'm saying is that....mistakes and mishandling can happen.

But as for being a weasel.....well, that's a different story.

Well then, so maybe Harper made a mistake (or maybe not)....so what's the point of CONTINUOUSLY pounding away? In the middle of a crisis when we're at war?

When is enough enough? So they can all get back to boosting our troops' morale and standing tall and united?

[betsy]

wrong post.

[normanchateau]

The Liberals practical made the mistake of weakening our military....

How on earth do you view the Liberals' 12.8 billion dollar increase in military spending as "weakening our military"?

"The Liberal government provided General Hillier with the authority to reshape the military, and wrote him a virtual blank cheque for the largest military spending increase in a generation in the 2005 budget: $12.8 billion over five years – an increase that will eventually take Canadian defence spending higher than any level since the Second World War."

Source:

http://www.canadians.org/peace/issues/Marc...s/military.html

[betsy]

Top general calls Liberal rule 'decade of darkness'

Hillier's speech 'too political,' says Grit defence critic

Mike Blanchfield, The Ottawa Citizen

Published: Saturday, February 17, 2007

Gen. Rick Hillier, the chief of defence staff, was accused yesterday of being a political "prop" of the Conservative government for referring to past defence cuts by the Liberals as "a decade of darkness."

Gen. Hillier denied after his speech it had any political intent.

"I'm not a politician. I don't tread in those waters. My job as chief of defence staff is to describe clearly and paint a picture," he said.

"As the chief of defence staff, I care not who governs our country as long as they support the Canadian Forces."

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...9571625&k=40838

For Better Or For Worse

by Ray Dick

The dowry that Canada brings to the partnership is a military that almost all defence analysts agree needs an additional billion dollars a year over its normal operating costs over the next five years just to maintain the status quo and its credibility on the national scene. Ships are tied up at docks because they lack the crews to go to sea, sovereignty flights, especially in the northern regions, have been cut to the bone and the army is hard pressed to meet its far-flung commitments at home and abroad. This is not to mention rusting equipment, a deteriorating infrastructure, outdated tanks and an immediate need to replace Sea King helicopters that are more than 40 years old

http://www.legionmagazine.com/features/mil...tters/02-05.asp

[betsy]

The Liberals practical made the mistake of weakening our military....

How on earth do you view the Liberals' 12.8 billion dollar increase in military spending as "weakening our military"?

"The Liberal government provided General Hillier with the authority to reshape the military, and wrote him a virtual blank cheque for the largest military spending increase in a generation in the 2005 budget: $12.8 billion over five years – an increase that will eventually take Canadian defence spending higher than any level since the Second World War."

Source:

http://www.canadians.org/peace/issues/Marc...s/military.html

Well I don't know what happened to that money, Norm.

All I remember was that our Canadian soldiers had to hitch a ride with the Americans just so to be able to reach and give relief aid in another country. I think this was during the tsunami in Indonesia.

[normanchateau]

The Liberals practical made the mistake of weakening our military....

How on earth do you view the Liberals' 12.8 billion dollar increase in military spending as "weakening our military"?

"The Liberal government provided General Hillier with the authority to reshape the military, and wrote him a virtual blank cheque for the largest military spending increase in a generation in the 2005 budget: $12.8 billion over five years – an increase that will eventually take Canadian defence spending higher than any level since the Second World War."

Source:

http://www.canadians.org/peace/issues/Marc...s/military.html

Well I don't know what happened to that money, Norm.

All I remember was that our Canadian soldiers had to hitch a ride with the Americans just so to be able to reach and give relief aid in another country. I think this was during the tsunami in Indonesia.

I was actually visiting Indonesia when the tsunami struck so I remember rather vividly that it was 2004.

The 12.8 billion dollar increase came in the 2005 budget. Poor Paul Martin was so tainted by the sponsorship scandal that he never got the credit he deserved for the largest increase in Canadian military spending since World War II.

[betsy]

I was actually visiting Indonesia when the tsunami struck so I remember rather vividly that it was 2004.

The 12.8 billion dollar increase came in the 2005 budget. Poor Paul Martin was so tainted by the sponsorship scandal that he never got the credit he deserved for the largest increase in Canadian military spending since World War II.

I guess Paul Martin had no choice but to give some funding.

That was quite humiliating!

Hitching a ride....and from the neighbors Liberals so loved to bash. It's impossible for the Liberals to put down and feel superior to the USA....when we end up relying on the USA!

It's bloody difficult to feel smug and to posture around being a world leader...when our own troops cannot even reach a destination to give some relief!

[Topaz]

The Afghan govt may not want NATO building prisons BUT the US has one near Kandahar, but we are not to know about it. BUT as always, you surf the web enough, you can find anything, maybe the Ambassador doesn't know about the prison!!

[Figleaf]

Hmmm... a mystery-prison unknown to the regular authorities ... another island in George Bush's gulag archipelago perhaps?

I wonder who gets to be tortured there.

Wait! Maybe there's a solution to our prisoner problem. Don't hand them over to the Afghans for brutal benighted medieval torture -- hand them over to the U.S. for efficient calculated modern torture.

[normanchateau]

I was actually visiting Indonesia when the tsunami struck so I remember rather vividly that it was 2004.

The 12.8 billion dollar increase came in the 2005 budget. Poor Paul Martin was so tainted by the sponsorship scandal that he never got the credit he deserved for the largest increase in Canadian military spending since World War II.

I guess Paul Martin had no choice but to give some funding.

But didn't you say earlier that he weakened the military?

[BC_chick]

It's not enough that our troops don't torture them....our troops must also protect them!

Do you know first-hand that every prisoner handed over is a criminal?