Conservatives Raise TEN TIMES more than Liberals.

[sharkman]

Well, patience my dear. When an election is called, the tale will be told. No need to waste effort on building up a lead before hand and waste resources doing it. Better to not show your cards until the election.

But you are right in that some Canadians are still unsure about Tories and cling like a bad habit to the Liberals.

[jdobbin]

No I was not. But comparing the American situation with ours is quite unreliable, the Reps had been in power for 6 years and were highly unpopular.

You seemed pretty convinced that the Republicans would win regardless.

The Tories bounced back down once they hit the 40% mark and the very latest poll had them at 30%. It certainly would not get them their desired majority. It might not even get them them another minority.

[BC_chick]

When an election is called, the tale will be told.

What tale? That we're going to have minority governments for a long time to come?

[Michael Bluth]

My question therefore to the tory-supporters is this.... what is wrong here that your man can't pull a significant lead above such a "loser?" Could it be that maybe Dion isn't really a loser, or is it that Harper isn't as great as you think? Maybe a little bit of both? If you look at the reality of Harper's popularity, you really can't say "neither" on that one.

You're the only calling Dion a loser.

He's not a loser, just in over his head as an aspirant to the Prime Ministership.

Harper is not perfect, but he's better than Dion.

Please define *significant lead*.

[BC_chick]

You're the only calling Dion a loser.

He's not a loser, just in over his head as an aspirant to the Prime Ministership.

Harper is not perfect, but he's better than Dion.

Actually, I used "loser" as an all-encompassing adjective for all the arguments I hear against Dion (can't speak English, isn't a leader, and so on).

Now that we've established the semantics of my statement, perhaps you'd like to address my point about Harper's inability to muster up a substantial lead if he is "better" than Dion who is "over his head."

[Michael Bluth]

Actually, I used "loser" as an all-encompassing adjective for all the arguments I hear against Dion (can't speak English, isn't a leader, and so on).

Now that we've established the semantics of my statement, perhaps you'd like to address my point about Harper's inability to muster up a substantial lead if he is "better" and Dion being "over his head."

In case you missed the edit on my post.

Please define *signigicant lead*.

[BC_chick]

Please define *signigicant lead*.

I did that too. Above 35% for more than two weeks. The way you Harper-supporters go on about him and about Dion's inability to lead, I would not expect less than 45% for Harper. What's wrong then with your argument?

[sharkman]

Please define *signigicant lead*.

I did that too. Above 35% for more than two weeks. The way you Harper-supporters go on about him and about Dion's inability to lead, I would not expect less than 45% for Harper. What's wrong then with your argument?

How about your argument? You claim all manner of broken promises and failures with the Tories since they came to power, how come they are still above 35%? Why, according to you they should be dropping like a rock!

[Michael Bluth]

I did that too. Above 35% for more than two weeks. The way you Harper-supporters go on about him and about Dion's inability to lead, I would not expect less than 45% for Harper. What's wrong then with your argument?

Your expectations of 45% are unrealistic. If you are faulting people for thinking Harper is stronger than Dion on that basis, can't really deal with that.

The last two weeks have been rough for the Conservatives. No questioning that.

Last three Ipsos Reid polls. Link

April 26th CPC - 38%

April 19th CPC - 39%

April 12th CPC - 38%

If you want to quibble with the pollster. The last SES Research poll. Link

Sorry they don't publish very often, but they were definitely the most accurate pollster in the last election.

April 5 CPC - 36%

[BC_chick]

I did that too. Above 35% for more than two weeks. The way you Harper-supporters go on about him and about Dion's inability to lead, I would not expect less than 45% for Harper. What's wrong then with your argument?

Your expectations of 45% are unrealistic. If you are faulting people for thinking Harper is stronger than Dion on that basis, can't really deal with that.

The last two weeks have been rough for the Conservatives. No questioning that.

Last three Ipsos Reid polls. Link

April 26th CPC - 38%

April 19th CPC - 39%

April 12th CPC - 38%

If you want to quibble with the pollster. The last SES Research poll. Link

Sorry they don't publish very often, but they were definitely the most accurate pollster in the last election.

April 5 CPC - 36%

Though I commend your approach in making an actual demonstration of your point, as opposed to merely attacking me, I would be more likely to accept it if you were to show me a period of two weeks where the CPC is above 35% according to the majority of our country's polling agencies. As far as I know, Ipsos has repeatedly shown inaccurate and favourable results for the CPC.

[Michael Bluth]

Though I commend your approach in making an actual demonstration of your point, as opposed to merely attacking me, I would be more likely to accept it if you were to show me a period of two weeks where the CPC is above 35% according to the majority of our country's polling agencies. As far as I know, Ipsos has repeatedly shown inaccurate and favourable results for the CPC.

I provided the SES poll on the guess you would attack the pollster. What issue do you have with SES?

Please provide proof of Ipsos' inaccurate and favaourable results for the CPC assertion.

Please clear up your unreasonable 45% support level assertion.

[BC_chick]

I provided the SES poll on the guess you would attack the pollster. What issue do you have with SES?

Please provide proof of Ipsos' inaccurate and favaourable results for the CPC assertion.

Please clear up your unreasonable 45% support level assertion.

Okay, Michael, I have to obviously be very literal and avoid using rhetoric at all costs when arguing with Harper-supporters. I retract my definition of substantial lead from "above 35% and for more than two weeks" to "the kind of support the Liberals used to enjoy - above 45% for months on end, even years on end."

After all, if Harper is so much "better" as you claim he is, and if Dion is "over his head" as you also claim, then 40%+ for extended periods of time shouldn't be much to ask for, should it?

[sharkman]

Michael, here is a link to a summary of polls. BCchick just told me she put me on her ignore list so she can't see this:

polling data

[Michael Bluth]

Okay, Michael, I have to obviously be very literal and avoid using rhetoric at all costs when arguing with Harper-supporters. I retract my definition of substantial lead from "above 35% and for more than two weeks" to "the kind of support the Liberals used to enjoy - above 45% for months on end, even years on end."

After all, if Harper is so much "better" as you claim he is, and if Dion is "over his head" as you also claim, then 40%+ for extended periods of time shouldn't be much to ask for, should it?

Hmm, you thanked me for not insulting you then you throw in the attack in bold?

So you retract your definition when proven wrong. Very interesting.

Please provide evidence of two months of weekly polls with the Liberals receiving 45% support.

I didn't say so much better. I said better. You really should avoid using the rhetoric it comes across as shrill and disingenuous.

Yes, 40% + support for extended periods of time is too much to ask for. This is a minority government. There are four recognized parties in the house of commons.

If the Conservatives (or the Liberals) had received that level of support for extended periods we would already be in an election or have had one.

We aren't in an election and haven't had one so it is too much to ask for.

Michael, here is a link to a summary of polls. BCchick just told me she put me on her ignore list so she can't see this:

polling data

[BC_chick]

Hmm, you thanked me for not insulting you then you throw in the attack in bold?

What part did you find offensive, calling you a Harper-supporter, or saying that I should not be rhetorical when arguing with you?

So you retract your definition when proven wrong. Very interesting.

Actually, I retracted using rhetoric to demonstrate my point and decided to stick to the literal. Glad you find it interesting. It's not like I retracted the argument itself.

Please provide evidence of two months of weekly polls with the Liberals receiving 45% support.

Sure thing:

http://www.pollingreport.ca/nslbs.php?date...&catID=2&max=60

Press arrow pointing left and you'll see that the periods before was the same.

Yes, 40% + support for extended periods of time is too much to ask for. This is a minority government. There are four recognized parties in the house of commons.

He's had close to 18 months to show himself. I disagree that it's too much to ask for if he is as "better" as you claim he is.

That was my whole point.

[jdobbin]

Actually, I retracted using rhetoric to demonstrate my point and decided to stick to the literal. Glad you find it interesting. It's not like I retracted the argument itself.

Those were heady days when the Liberals were way ahead like that month after month. And pretty much one of the reasons for it was that Harper split the right wing up over the some of the same things he accused Mulroney of doing but now now himself.

The ignore button is a useful thing to use. It eventually caused Ricki to implode and earn a banning. It will probably end up doing the same thing to others if they try to harass you by PM.

[Michael Bluth]

What part did you find offensive, calling you a Harper-supporter, or saying that I should not be rhetorical when arguing with you?

Saything that you obviously had to be very literal. What did you mean by that part? Odd how you ignored addressing the most condescending part of your post.

Sure thing:

http://www.pollingreport.ca/nslbs.php?date...&catID=2&max=60

"Weekly" polls is the standard you set. Your time period appears to cover the disastrous leader of Stock Day. Stock Day wasn't a better leader than Stephane Dion. Not say he was worse mind you...

He's had close to 18 months to show himself. I disagree that it's too much to ask for if he is as "better" as you claim he is.

That was my whole point.

You are the one reading in a level of better. He is simply better than Dion.

[jdobbin]

After all, if Harper is so much "better" as you claim he is, and if Dion is "over his head" as you also claim, then 40%+ for extended periods of time shouldn't be much to ask for, should it?

The big Harper supporters here were all chomping at the bit to go the polls this spring but the numbers just don't support anything but a repeat of the last election. Now they says the longer he waits, the better his numbers will get. If only that were true. Decima has the Tories at 30%, 1% less than the Liberals. That has to be an eye opener.

[sharkman]

Actually, I retracted using rhetoric to demonstrate my point and decided to stick to the literal. Glad you find it interesting. It's not like I retracted the argument itself.

Those were heady days when the Liberals were way ahead like that month after month. And pretty much one of the reasons for it was that Harper split the right wing up over the some of the same things he accused Mulroney of doing but now now himself.

The ignore button is a useful thing to use. It eventually caused Ricki to implode and earn a banning. It will probably end up doing the same thing to others if they try to harass you by PM.

Oh, what happened to Ricky, and why do you include the comment about harassment? I wondered where he went.

[jdobbin]

Oh, what happened to Ricky, and why do you include the comment about harassment? I wondered where he went.

He was PMing people with every message he posted. I believe the moderator called it harassment. He was banned for it or for other comments he made. Hard to say, I wasn't aware of it till people told me. He had been imploding for some time.

[Michael Bluth]

The big Harper supporters here were all chomping at the bit to go the polls this spring but the numbers just don't support anything but a repeat of the last election. Now they says the longer he waits, the better his numbers will get. If only that were true. Decima has the Tories at 30%, 1% less than the Liberals. That has to be an eye opener.

Decima is as much and outlier as Ipsos is. Arguably more so.

If you were to be fair you'd recognize that.

Why come here when you aren't even going to be fair on a most basic level?

Wouldn't you find 100% agreement with your 24-7 all hate for Harper views on Rabble?

[jdobbin]

According to Tory-supporters Harper gets more money, is a "real" leader, sounds better than Dion, looks better than him, people who are now familiar with him and are refusing to buy into the *scary* rumours about him.... yet their golden-child can't get above 35% electoral support for more than 2 weeks.

Even Ipsos have the Tories down quite a bit. 35% versus 34% for the Liberals.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/070505/...da_politics_col

The poll, conducted by Ipsos Reid and published by the CanWest group of newspapers, put support for the Conservatives at 35 percent, compared to 34 percent for the Liberals.

[sharkman]

Yes, which is 5 points higher than the poll you've been speaking of.

[jdobbin]

Yes, which is 5 points higher than the poll you've been speaking of.

And the Liberals are 4 points higher. Statistical tie.

[Michael Bluth]

Yes, which is 5 points higher than the poll you've been speaking of.

And the Liberals are 4 points higher. Statistical tie.

Sharkman, don't worry. Some people clearly don't understand a "statistical tie".

In this case it means the Conservatives are as likely to have a two point lead as to be actually tied with the Liberals.

It's a coin toss right now. After the worst two weeks the Conservatives have faced.

Why can't Dion take a lead?