Are the conservatives commiting suicide?

[geoffrey]

Not one neutral moderate in the place. Interesting.

*cough* *cough*

One can say Harper is a stronger leader, which he is, and not support Harper. I think that Trudeau was a strong leader, but I really think I'd vote for a chimpanzee over him. One can also say that Dion is not in touch, without neccessarily supporting either side. Again, I take this position.

He's an idealist who think great integrity and ideology is enough to win in politics, but he's up against a political shark.

This is the problem when you get two academics fighting each other in Ottawa, you get a bunch of meaningless policy that doesn't really add up to any real results.

Can Dion out policy Harper? Maybe. Out result him? Not likely (though I don't particularily like Harper's results).

A little dose of reality is desperately needed in Ottawa. The reaction of Canadians when learning they have to pay more for gas now was priceless for example... often the policy objectives of even the apathetic majority don't add up to what they want to see as results. The guy that delivers results will win the election. People want their lives to improve, bottom line, enough of the policy BS.

Another example, Dion says Kyoto was a great accomplishment. Kyoto is meaningless as a peice of paper. Reducing GHG emissions is an accomplishment. Kyoto has not done that in Canada or many other places.

So it's a failure. Who cares about his concensus (after half the world walked out), or his international focus, it didn't do dick all.

So that's where we are. Two guys fighting for the PMO that all believe what they say is worth something more than what their actions actually provide.

Have your taxes gone down lately?

[BC_chick]

The difference between him and "the shark" is that Harper's actions are not driven by party popularity.

You've got to be kidding me. You can say that with a straight face after the Ambrose fiasco?

Dion also lacks judgement and common sense which are both crucial to being an effective leader.

I Disagree again. I share many of his values, so for me he does not lack judgement and common sense. Lack of common sense, to me, is not accepting the science behind global-warming unless absolutely having no other choice but to do so. Lacking judgement is deciding to stop lowering the flag for fallen soldiers as though we are Americans who are experiencing casualties on a weekly, if not daily, basis.

I could go on, but the point is that "lacking judgment and common sense" are very subjective qualities in a politician.

[Figleaf]

So what you're saying is, Dion's mouth moves the same way as his reaction to being pied,"on impulse" and without hesitation, and he should be held back from saying anything stupid......again......and again.

No, what I'm saying is that he's tougher and gamer than he looks. Underestimate him at your peril. Harper spent millions on a smear campaign because he knows this.

[Figleaf]

People want their lives to improve, bottom line, enough of the policy BS.

I think you have just articulated a perfect description of the useless voter. They are full if demands, ignorance, and a childish notion that things can simply be conjured for them out of thin air.

[Canuck E Stan]

No, what I'm saying is that he's tougher and gamer than he looks. Underestimate him at your peril.

I've seen his toughness as environment minister, scared the crap out of Canadians.

He underestimated what was expected of that role and now he's paying for it.

He's trying to be the environment minister he never was.

Too little,too late. He's in a different role now, too bad he hasn't got the mind set for this role.

Maybe next year with a new Liberal leader without baggage, someone like Kennedy, the Liberals will shake the old school image out and begin anew.

[jdobbin]

Maybe next year with a new Liberal leader without baggage, someone like Kennedy, the Liberals will shake the old school image out and begin anew.

Had Kennedy been made leader you would have complained about his lack of French.

[jdobbin]

Ted Byfield says Tories are marching leftward,

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55434

Harper has proven much the same. The principles of the old Reform Party, of which he was an architect and which helped propel him to the top, he has almost wholly abandoned. Instead of cutting government spending, he has raised it even higher.

Instead of pushing the federal government out of provincial jurisdictions, he has intensified the federal presence. He has repeatedly denounced the phenomenon of a "carbon tax" and last week he enacted one by regulation, meaning that it does not need to come before Parliament. Finally, instead of terminating federal "bribery" to keep Quebec in Canada, he has increased the scale.

All of this is aimed at a single goal – achieving a majority in the next election. Almost everything else has been cast aside.

It would see the fiscal conservatives in these forums have also abandoned their beliefs.

[Canuck E Stan]

It would see the fiscal conservatives in these forums have also abandoned their beliefs.

I still believe in God. And that I'm sure is not a left thing to do.

[jdobbin]

I still believe in God. And that I'm sure is not a left thing to do.

I have no idea where you are going with that or what its relevance is to anything.

[Canuck E Stan]

Had Kennedy been made leader you would have complained about his lack of French.

Hardly, I would have complained about something like why he felt he was qualified to be Education Minister in Ontario when he never finished university.

[jdobbin]

Hardly, I would have complained about something like why he felt he was qualified to be Education Minister in Ontario when he never finished university.

I figured as much.

[Michael Bluth]

Had Kennedy been made leader you would have complained about his lack of French.

Hardly, I would have complained about something like why he felt he was qualified to be Education Minister in Ontario when he never finished university.

And that would have been a valid issue, as well as his weak French.

[noahbody]

The difference between him and "the shark" is that Harper's actions are not driven by party popularity.

You've got to be kidding me. You can say that with a straight face after the Ambrose fiasco?

Dion also lacks judgement and common sense which are both crucial to being an effective leader.

I Disagree again. I share many of his values, so for me he does not lack judgement and common sense. Lack of common sense, to me, is not accepting the science behind global-warming unless absolutely having no other choice but to do so. Lacking judgement is deciding to stop lowering the flag for fallen soldiers as though we are Americans who are experiencing casualties on a weekly, if not daily, basis.

I could go on, but the point is that "lacking judgment and common sense" are very subjective qualities in a politician.

Saying you share his values, so therefore he does not lack judgement and common sense, doesn't make any sense.

Few things have been politicized as much as global warming. If you're opposed to Kyoto, you are condemned to being against the environment. In reality even for the most pro-enviro lovers, Kyoto is an objective, not a solution. Should Canada signed on in the first place? No. Given Canada's resource-based economy and low population, signing on to it, expecially with no intention to meet targets as admitted by Eddie Greenberg, was beyond irresponsible.

As for the 'science' behind kyoto, it's very debatable and should be debated as all scientific claims should be. There's no need to fall of the edge of a flat Earth, if the Earth is really round.

As far as Dion, would you say his comment on bringing Taliban prisoners over to Canada is an example of sound judgement? Or how about his insistence on meeting kyoto commitments on time no matter the cost to Canada?

[BC_chick]

The difference between him and "the shark" is that Harper's actions are not driven by party popularity.

You've got to be kidding me. You can say that with a straight face after the Ambrose fiasco?

Dion also lacks judgement and common sense which are both crucial to being an effective leader.

I Disagree again. I share many of his values, so for me he does not lack judgement and common sense. Lack of common sense, to me, is not accepting the science behind global-warming unless absolutely having no other choice but to do so. Lacking judgement is deciding to stop lowering the flag for fallen soldiers as though we are Americans who are experiencing casualties on a weekly, if not daily, basis.

I could go on, but the point is that "lacking judgment and common sense" are very subjective qualities in a politician.

Saying you share his values, so therefore he does not lack judgement and common sense, doesn't make any sense.

Few things have been politicized as much as global warming. If you're opposed to Kyoto, you are condemned to being against the environment. In reality even for the most pro-enviro lovers, Kyoto is an objective, not a solution. Should Canada signed on in the first place? No. Given Canada's resource-based economy and low population, signing on to it, expecially with no intention to meet targets as admitted by Eddie Greenberg, was beyond irresponsible.

As for the 'science' behind kyoto, it's very debatable and should be debated as all scientific claims should be. There's no need to fall of the edge of a flat Earth, if the Earth is really round.

As far as Dion, would you say his comment on bringing Taliban prisoners over to Canada is an example of sound judgement? Or how about his insistence on meeting kyoto commitments on time no matter the cost to Canada?

Funny how I pick a number of decisions from Harper to show "lack of judgement and common sense" and you completely avoid commenting on them, yet you expect me to do the same about some of Dion's less-than-favourable policies.

For the record, I agree with ALL of Dion's policies like you agree with all of Harper's. Still doesn't mean I think Dion is off-base on most issues.

BTW, the only debate going on about the science behind GW is between 99.9% of the world's scientist and the people who work in industries which will end up paying the most if we implement Kyoto.

[Michael Bluth]

BTW, the only debate going on about the science behind GW is between 99.9% of the world's scientist and the people who work in industries which will end up paying the most if we implement Kyoto.

There is a lot larger debate than that going on.

Not everyone who believes GW exists think Kyoto is the best way to deal with the issue.

[noahbody]

Funny how I pick a number of decisions from Harper to show "lack of judgement and common sense" and you completely avoid commenting on them, yet you expect me to do the same about some of Dion's less-than-favourable policies.

The decision not to lower the flag was consistent with military protocal and Canadian tradition. It used to be only lowered on Nov 11 to respect soldiers and when certain military and government officials were killed. Chretien broke with tradition in 2002 when he lowered it for the four Canadian soldiers who got killed by an American pilot. It has nothing to do with Harper being American-like. It's the Canadian military way.

You'll have to explain your Rona Ambrose comment.

I think you meant to say you don't agree with everything Dion does, like I don't with Harper. Right?

[Nocrap]

I normally support the Liberal Party, but I happen to think that Dion was a very bad choice and is leading the party to 3rd place

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Dion, except maybe his English. Even that I think isn't so bad. The guy is just too nice for politics. He was at 40% approval rating after the convention and he didn't do anything after Harper attacked him in those ads. He's an idealist who think great integrity and ideology is enough to win in politics, but he's up against a political shark. If he toughens up a bit he still has a good chance of winning.

I agree. When he first won the leadership I was disappointed because I would have preferred Kennedy. However, I'm starting to warm up to him. The blame game tactics of the CPC are really getting on my nerves and it's been nice this week to see how even their supporters in the media are upset over their handling of the two key issues: Kyoto and Afghanistan. Pitbull Baird is about to be castrated and O'Connor put out to pasture.

[gc1765]

Hardly, I would have complained about something like why he felt he was qualified to be Education Minister in Ontario when he never finished university.

And that would have been a valid issue, as well as his weak French.

I take it neither of you are a fan of Ralph Klein?

A University education, depending on the field of study, is over-rated. And this is coming from a PhD student...

[Michael Bluth]

I take it neither of you are a fan of Ralph Klein?

A University education, depending on the field of study, is over-rated. And this is coming from a PhD student...

Not a huge fan, no.

However, as Premier of Alberta the lack of French wasn't such a big deal.

Does one really have to be a PhD student to know a university education isn't that big a deal.

[gc1765]

Does one really have to be a PhD student to know a university education isn't that big a deal.

So you agree that Kennedy's lack of a University education "isn't that big a deal"?

[BC_chick]

I think you meant to say you don't agree with everything Dion does, like I don't with Harper. Right?

Reread my post. S-L-O-W-L-Y.

[BC_chick]

BTW, the only debate going on about the science behind GW is between 99.9% of the world's scientist and the people who work in industries which will end up paying the most if we implement Kyoto.

There is a lot larger debate than that going on.

Not everyone who believes GW exists think Kyoto is the best way to deal with the issue.

That's a whole other issue. Noahbody was saying that the science behind GW is debatable.

[geoffrey]

I'd say there is little debate on the underlying science of climate change, but the causes/effects/what to do is a very widly debated topic.

It's not the unianimous 'everyone needs to cut or we'll all die' concensus that Gore et. al want to make it seem like.

[gc1765]

It's not the unianimous 'everyone needs to cut or we'll all die' concensus that Gore et. al want to make it seem like.

If you acknowledge that carbon dioxide causes global warming, and that global warming is a bad thing (maybe not so much in Canada, but in most of the world it certainly is), then the logical thing to do is cut emissions. The only question then is how to enforce this?

[jbg]

Harper clearly is trying to commit suicide with his unpopular views of the world and recent afghanistan toture/Kyoto delimma. He knews that if he could continue peace operations in Afghanistan started under the past liberal government that that would not be an issue for him. He knew that if he accepted Kyoto and promoted it that it would not be an issue. If he would have fulfilled these two things, Harper would be looking at a majority.

You could always ape Brian Mulroney and try to be all things to all people. Or you can do what you believe in and hope that some people see it your way, and some people respect your honesty. I prefer the latter course, though I am, of course, not a Canadian.