Shooting Leaves 22 Dead at Virginia Campus

[Black Dog]

It is the Left which has allowed anyone and everyone to give free reign to whatever selfish behaviour they wanted to engage in. It is the Left which has broken down the family unit, broken down societal mores and society's structured behaviour codes. Young men no longer know what is required of them, what behaviour they ought to engage in, what standards they should be meeting, because the Left says there is no standards because everyone should just do whatever they want. A certain mindset finds this intolerable, requires structure, requires a path and a goal, and there are none.

Huh. This "The Left" must be a powerful force. I wonder who they are.

...

....

.....

*whistles*

[BubberMiley]

May I change the topic just a tiny bit. Today I noticed in the Toronto Globe and Mail, Toronto sun and Toronto Star they all chose to run pictures of the gunman on their front pages with sensationalist headlines and then the inside stories sensationalized this mad boy's behaviour by repeating his words.

I think the CBC is one of the few who refused to air the tapes. The Sun Media tabloid rags were particularly offensive in how they gave this piece-of-shite exactly what he wanted--attention. As much as I favour freedom of the press in nearly every instance where it is threatened, if the media can't exercise rational discretion in an instance like this and not play along with mass murderers that issue press kits, there might be a need for legislation preventing images like that being broadcast and published (like they somewhat successfully did with Bernardo).

[guyser]

....press kits, there might be a need for legislation preventing images like that being broadcast and published (like they somewhat successfully did with Bernardo).

Has the press ever withheld a picture of a murderer? The images of the Bernardo situation is not applicable as those were murder scenes.

I dont get the rationale to withhold from publication the killers pictures. The media knows that plenty of pictures are available elsewhere, thus they want to ensure some "eyes" reading their papers.

[Riverwind]

I dont get the rationale to withhold from publication the killers pictures. The media knows that plenty of pictures are available elsewhere, thus they want to ensure some "eyes" reading their papers.

Killers like this do it for fame. Giving them fame enourages copycats. Strict rules designed to deny these killers the fame they seek are desperately needed. The fact that pictures would be available on the internet is immaterial. Most people still rely on traditional media for their news.

[guyser]

Killers like this do it for fame. Giving them fame enourages copycats. Strict rules designed to deny these killers the fame they seek are desperately needed. The fact that pictures would be available on the internet is immaterial. Most people still rely on traditional media for their news.

He's dead....and famous , but so what? Copycats I suspect dont become copycats for pictures.

I am also against censorship .

[Guthrie]

Killers like this do it for fame. Giving them fame enourages copycats. Strict rules designed to deny these killers the fame they seek are desperately needed. The fact that pictures would be available on the internet is immaterial. Most people still rely on traditional media for their news.

He's dead....and famous , but so what? Copycats I suspect dont become copycats for pictures.

I am also against censorship .

why do they become copycats? if not for pictures?

[White Doors]

Me, I don't trust anyoen with a gun although if I had a choice I would prefer it to be in the hands of a police officer, soldier,

aboriginal or seasoned subsistance hunter.

aborigional? WTF?

Your 'comfort level' should not be able to infringe on my right to own firearms.

[RB]

Now I ask you guys this. Why? Can this story not be explained without showing his pictures and without playing back his words or repeating his babblings?

I watched with distress as the story unfold and as of yesterday I stopped watching. It is a sad and tragic situation; it takes its toll, affects you and tries to follow you around. I mean I head off to university paranoid. So I don't watch anymore, I get the updates on the radio while driving.

Anyway, you think universities policies might change now to start treating these young ones as adults. And that safety should take precedence over the protecting student's freedom of rights of privacy or where do we cross the line of privacy and invasion of an adult life. I mean the parents of the students are never told about their history because it is personal and kept confidential to protect the student rights, the irony is "because they are adults". But, the students at university are still treated as kids in their parents’ house with dorm parents.

I mean we hear of the lengths that are taken not to "kick" that student out of class, and to protect him.

Similar to the Montreal massacre the shooter was from some place not practicing western ideologies and seem to rage against the liberties and freedoms that exist in a capitalistic world - in this instance that people can work hard and become rich. I didn't want to draw a parallel but it seems this is exactly why the middleast folks rage agaist the western societies. They become loonies and the good society were are, cite mental health disorders to label "bad" ones with some medical condition.

[ScottSA]

Every child to be screened for risk of turning criminal under Blair justice plan

A new-style "11-plus" to assess the risk every child in Britain runs of turning to crime was among a battery of proposals unveiled in Tony Blair's crime plan yesterday.

The children of prisoners, problem drug users and others at high risk of offending will also face being "actively managed" by social services and youth justice workers. New technologies are to be used to boost police detection rates while DNA samples are to be taken from any crime suspect who comes into contact with the police.

May I suggest a very simple screening mechanism: anyone who seeks to purchase a handgun is, by definition, a potential killer so should not be allowed to have one. Anyone who does not want a gun can purchase one.

That is nothing less than a police state mechanism. It will backfire in about a million ways, and in Canada it would never in a million years clear the Charter.

[guyser]

why do they become copycats? if not for pictures?

Who copycatted Benardo? McVeigh? Charles Whitman ? James Hubberty? Marc Lepine?

Nobody. So then, I see no problem showing the pictures.

[Riverwind]

He's dead....and famous , but so what? Copycats I suspect dont become copycats for pictures.

They become copycats for the fame. The media should deny this guy the fame he deperately wanted by refusing to publish his name or pictures. He should be referred to as the 'VTech Killer'. He does not deserve to be named or identified. The rants he sent to NBC should have be given to the cops and forgotten.

Right now victims of child molestation cannot be named. This often means the perpetrator cannot be named. Do you beleive that the media should be free to publish such information regardless of the consequences?

[mikedavid00]

Madison Van Duyne said she and her classmates in a media writing class were on "lockdown" in their classrooms. They were huddled in the middle of the classroom, writing stories about the shootings and posting them online.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech...ting/index.html

The US at the best of times is an odd place.....

Yeah school shootings certainly don't happen in Canada.

[PolyNewbie]

A new-style "11-plus" to assess the risk every child in Britain runs of turning to crime was among a battery of proposals unveiled in Tony Blair's crime plan yesterday.

One cannot help but think they needed a reason to bring this to the next level. Its just another element of control needed by the police state to implement the Technotronic Era

"The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values." -Zbigniew Brzezinski

You need gun control to allow this to become reality. You need mass shootings to get gun control.

Has anyone seen the science fiction movie Minority Report with Tom Cruise ?

[guyser]

Right now victims of child molestation cannot be named. This often means the perpetrator cannot be named. Do you beleive that the media should be free to publish such information regardless of the consequences?

As to the first part of your post (not quoted here) read above for my answers.

As to your Q do I think the media should publish molestation/pedophiles pics? Nope , not a bit. We are dealing with a minor, and minors should be protected.

[PolyNewbie]

Bush: Be Wary of 'Abnormal Behavior'

Be Wary

Bush wants students to call the authorities regarding any suspicious behaviour. Does anyone besides me get whats wrong with this ?

[mikedavid00]

We now know that Cho Seung Hui was investigated by police a couple of years ago after stalking complaints by two women. We know that he was committed to a mental institution at that time, and that he was described as likely a danger to himself and others at that time.

He was also investigated by campus police when his English teacher found his graphically violent creative writing to be so disturbing that she contacted university officials about him.

And there's also no way of telling who will drive wreckless and kill people when you sell them a car.

My question is a bit more fundemental.

Seeing as he was a foroiegn exchange student and a non citizen, how was he able to buy the handgun, and why was he not expelled from the country during his first signs of trouble?

The US (and especially Canada or any country for that matter) should not pamper, help, or welcome undesirables into their country. This goes for both physical and mental illness.

When he was omitted to the hospital, he should have been detained and expelled back to Korea.

But no. We're interested in not 'hurting his feelings'. We need to 'be fare'.

Him being in the US was a privilage, *not* a right.

I can't feel sorry for the US when they williningly import and keep these people in their country.

Believe me, we're the suckers, not India, China, Pakistan or Korea.

[Riverwind]

As to your Q do I think the media should publish molestation/pedophiles pics? Nope , not a bit. We are dealing with a minor, and minors should be protected.

IOW - you agree that media censorship is a legimate thing to do and the only question is whether it is justified in the case of these killers.

I would argue that there is plenty of evidence that this guy and the others before him were motivated by the the desire to be famous. The tapes sent to NBC right before his rampage are pretty strong evidence of that. We should deny them the fame they seek and ensure that they remain anonymous killers even if their victims are remembered. The media seem to be incapable of self restraint which means we need a law.

[guyser]

IOW - you agree that media censorship is a legimate thing to do and the only question is whether it is justified in the case of these killers.

Actually, the media IIRC is not the deciding factor in child abuse cases. To not publish the pic of an abuser is the courts decision.

I would argue that there is plenty of evidence that this guy and the others before him were motivated by the the desire to be famous. The media seem to be incapable of self restraint which means we need a law.

And there will be others, with or without the pics being shown. No copycats exist as far as I know , and certainly none (if there are) were not done due to pics being shown.

The media does not need a law. If you dont want to see the pics, dont watch the TV or buy a newspaper.

[guyser]

My question is a bit more fundemental.

Seeing as he was a foroiegn exchange student and a non citizen, how was he able to buy the handgun, and why was he not expelled from the country during his first signs of trouble?

He was not a foreign exchange student. He has been living in the US since 1992, first in Detroit, then his folks moved to Virginia to operate a dry cleaning business. He could buy a handgun because it is legal for him to do so. In fact one can buy guns in the US after I believe it to be 90 days residency.

Where would they expel him to? He had status in the US.

The US (and especially Canada or any country for that matter) should not pamper, help, or welcome undesirables into their country. This goes for both physical and mental illness.

Wonderful point ! But then again, neither the US nor Canada does pamper, help or welcome undersirables into their countries. So ....maybe not a good point.

When he was omitted to the hospital, he should have been detained and expelled back to Korea.

He was not "omitted " nor committed to any hospital. He was voluntarily admitted to to a behavioural health centre for one or two days. The Docs report said he had normal judgement and no suicidal tendencies.As for sending him back to Korea, you better pull out your chequebook and cut him a $10M cheque , a la Arar, since he was born in South Korea.

But no. We're interested in not 'hurting his feelings'. We need to 'be fare'.

Him being in the US was a privilage, *not* a right.

He paid his fare.....

I can't feel sorry for the US when they williningly import and keep these people in their country.

Believe me, we're the suckers, not India, China, Pakistan or Korea.

Nice American bashing. They did not "willingly import" he nor any of his family.

We're the suckers ? Huh?

[Riverwind]

And there will be others, with or without the pics being shown. No copycats exist as far as I know , and certainly none (if there are) were not done due to pics being shown.

You are missing my point. I am not saying that the pictures should be banned. I am saying there should be a complete ban on any information that can identify the guy. He should be anonymous.

Can you prove that this guy was not motivated by publicity surrounding Columbine and Dawson? Probably not. I can't really prove he was either. However, there is enough circumstance evidence that suggests a link. This evidence is enough to justify a ban on publicizing his identity. We ban numerous things in the name a public safety with a lot less evidence.

[ScottSA]

And there will be others, with or without the pics being shown. No copycats exist as far as I know , and certainly none (if there are) were not done due to pics being shown.

You are missing my point. I am not saying that the pictures should be banned. I am saying there should be a complete ban on any information that can identify the guy. He should be anonymous.

Can you prove that this guy was not motivated by publicity surrounding Columbine and Dawson? Probably not. I can't really prove he was either. However, there is enough circumstance evidence that suggests a link. This evidence is enough to justify a ban on publicizing his identity. We ban numerous things in the name a public safety with a lot less evidence.

What if his motivation had been something else? What if he were motivated by on of Mohammed's suras? I'd certainly want to know.

[Riverwind]

What if his motivation had been something else? What if he were motivated by on of Mohammed's suras? I'd certainly want to know.

That could be reported then. I am only saying that the guys identity should be subject to the ban. We could still have stories telling all about his run in with the police, the concerns of his instructors and anything else that would tell people why he did what he did. But we don't need to know his name and we don't need to see his pictures or hear his words.

[guyser]

You are missing my point. I am not saying that the pictures should be banned. I am saying there should be a complete ban on any information that can identify the guy. He should be anonymous.

Honestly I feel I am not missing your point. Why ban his pics? Why ban info on the guy. It does no one any harm to know this mans motivations , thoughts, and his face . He cannot by definition be anonymous.

Can you prove that this guy was not motivated by publicity surrounding Columbine and Dawson? Probably not. I can't really prove he was either. However, there is enough circumstance evidence that suggests a link.

I would call you on that one, but since this was done Monday and now its Thurs, one could not produce backup on that............yet.

I dont think he was motivated, and I get that from his manifesto. He does elude to them, Dylan and oh geez...you know, from Columbine, but there is not gushing prose in his manifesto to suggest that he adored them or worshipped them. He does elude to them but if I recall right, he said " ...as in the Columbine shooting" or " like Dylan and ..." I would think, he would be gushing praise at them or at Columbine instead of merely referencing them.

This evidence is enough to justify a ban on publicizing his identity. We ban numerous things in the name a public safety with a lot less evidence.

There isnt any evidence, thats the problem.

[Riverwind]

There isnt any evidence, thats the problem.

The fact that he mailed a video to NBC before his rampage is extremely compelling evidence that he was motivated by a desire for fame. Whether he specifically stated that he was copying the killers at Columbine is not material.

[guyser]

The fact that he mailed a video to NBC before his rampage is extremely compelling evidence that he was motivated by a desire for fame. Whether he specifically stated that he was copying the killers at Columbine is not material.

The whole idea of what he planned had some motive in fame , or rather we should use the term infamy .

With or without the video, or the rest of the mailing to NBC, he was and would remain infamous.

And he is dead. I would concede a minor point that if he was alive the manifesto video might not get shown, but that is not the case here.