US/ CANADA :Our interests are inextricably linked

[marcinmoka]

It upsets me when certain westerners go on diatribes stating that the US is in contempt of Canada and all other nations. Like it or not, they have acted as our protector, since our security is aligned to their own, all while granting us our own sovereignty. Sure they are persuing their own self interests, but that would be undermiming the American strategists intelligence (though certain elements have made faux-pas).

It would be naive to believe that overall, their conceptualization of 'self interest' would wholly exclude the interests of other (allied) nations. The bungling of the Iraq war has done one miraculous thing in terms of US Foreign Policy, it made them realize again that they cannot go at it alone, otherwise they will face peril in light of up and coming geo political power struggles!

[Peter F]

It upsets me when certain westerners go on diatribes stating that the US is in contempt of Canada and all other nations. Like it or not, they have acted as our protector, since our security is aligned to their own, all while granting us our own sovereignty. Sure they are persuing their own self interests, but that would be undermiming the American strategists intelligence (though certain elements have made faux-pas).

It would be naive to believe that overall, their conceptualization of 'self interest' would wholly exclude the interests of other (allied) nations. The bungling of the Iraq war has done one miraculous thing in terms of US Foreign Policy, it made them realize again that they cannot go at it alone, otherwise they will face peril in light of up and coming geo political power struggles!

Certainly, the USofA persue's its own interests, just like everyone eles. However, I don't think the US has ever dumped the idea of the necesity of Allies. In Iraq's case no allies were needed, except for show. Thus no big effort to find any.

[Figleaf]

It upsets me when certain westerners go on diatribes stating that the US is in contempt of Canada and all other nations. Like it or not, they have acted as our protector, since our security is aligned to their own, all while granting us our own sovereignty.

The U.S. has certainly not 'granted' us sovereignty. Britain granted Canada sovereignty starting in 1867 culminating in 1982.

As for U.S. protection, they had their own reasons which somewhat diminishes the need for us to be grateful.

[guyser]

However, I don't think the US has ever dumped the idea of the necesity of Allies. In Iraq's case no allies were needed, except for show. Thus no big effort to find any.

I would disagree with that. Poppa Bush knew enough to get them for round 1 in Iraq. Junior Bush was not so smart and his advisors either erred or he did not listen to them.

Allies were needed this time around. Recall they did say they had support , some of it coerced (not unusual) some of it..."sure we support you, heres $1000 and a flag"

Not having allies was a mistake

[Topaz]

However, I don't think the US has ever dumped the idea of the necesity of Allies. In Iraq's case no allies were needed, except for show. Thus no big effort to find any.

I would disagree with that. Poppa Bush knew enough to get them for round 1 in Iraq. Junior Bush was not so smart and his advisors either erred or he did not listen to them.

Allies were needed this time around. Recall they did say they had support , some of it coerced (not unusual) some of it..."sure we support you, heres $1000 and a flag"

Not having allies was a mistake

GWB thought on the invasion of Iraq is very complex. I read an article and it dealt how the Bush41 thought more of Jeb then JR. So JR said well I show dad, I go into Iraq, change regime, something you didn't do and grab the oil while I'm at it. Jeb is Governor, which I've already done but now I'm President of the US and I have power. Lets hope there will never be another president trying to prove something to a family member.

[Fortunata]

Like it or not, they have acted as our protector, since our security is aligned to their own, all while granting us our own sovereignty.

The USA doesn't protect Canada, it protects itself. In many ways the USA protects itself against Canada, softwood lumber, BSE, wheat, etc. Those of you who think the USA is altruistic enough to "protect" Canada, to "grant" us our sovereignty should educate yourself into how countries really work.

[Leafless]

It upsets me when certain westerners go on diatribes stating that the US is in contempt of Canada and all other nations. Like it or not, they have acted as our protector, since our security is aligned to their own, all while granting us our own sovereignty. Sure they are persuing their own self interests, but that would be undermiming the American strategists intelligence (though certain elements have made faux-pas).

The U.S. is the leader of modern day capitalism and defends all its allies under its capitalist umbrella.

So it would be folly to say America's self interest (in Canada's position) are not Canada's self interest.

[Liam]

Like it or not, they have acted as our protector, since our security is aligned to their own, all while granting us our own sovereignty.

The USA doesn't protect Canada, it protects itself. In many ways the USA protects itself against Canada, softwood lumber, BSE, wheat, etc. Those of you who think the USA is altruistic enough to "protect" Canada, to "grant" us our sovereignty should educate yourself into how countries really work.

The US protects its interests. Canada and its security is a tremendous interest of the US'. Based on Canadian nationalists' own claims, the US would be up a creek without a paddle if it wasn't for Canada's natural resources and our trade relationship. I'm going to debate that point (as I happen to agree with it to a degree), but one of the results of that interest is that the US does indeed protect Canada. It would be far more costly to us if we did not.

[guyser]

but one of the results of that interest is that the US does indeed protect Canada. It would be far more costly to us if we did not.

Liam do you think that the US budget for "protection" (as referenced from your post) is quantifiably higher because of it?

I am not sure I can find the words...how about protection is this much "X" , and then you (US) budget "X" + 10% ? ...or some such number?

[Liam]

Liam do you think that the US budget for "protection" (as referenced from your post) is quantifiably higher because of it?

I am not sure I can find the words...how about protection is this much "X" , and then you (US) budget "X" + 10% ? ...or some such number?

I personally haven't audited the Pentagon's budget, but... *LOL

However, even if there wasn't a line item titled "Protecting Canada", Canadian and American interests are so intertwined (domestically in North America) and so paralleled globally through co-owned companies, business contracts, etc., that Canada's domestic security and international commercial interests receive a fair degree of protection from US defense spending.

The US is not alone in providing this protection. An American company can feel comfort doing business in Cote d'Ivoire knowing that France has an aircraft carrier somewhere off the west coast of Africa and that French marines can swoop in to rescue them if the nation explodes in chaos. In that sense, France provides a degree of protection to US commercial interests. Swedish tourists can comfortably visit certain parts of the globe under the protective umbrella of the British navy or the Chinese military.

Canadians, whose government has an even less projective military presence globally, certainly piggy-back on the defense spending of other nations in the protection of its people and its interests. I don't mean for that to be insulting, because it's that way for everyone. Large military presences make for stability for a variety of people to go into a region to enjoy its tourist amenities, to do business, to perform relief work, to seek education, etc.

[weaponeer]

It upsets me when certain westerners go on diatribes stating that the US is in contempt of Canada and all other nations. Like it or not, they have acted as our protector, since our security is aligned to their own, all while granting us our own sovereignty.

The U.S. has certainly not 'granted' us sovereignty. Britain granted Canada sovereignty starting in 1867 culminating in 1982.

As for U.S. protection, they had their own reasons which somewhat diminishes the need for us to be grateful.

Yes, they had their own reasons, we would not do it so they had to do it for us..... They had to run NORAD because we would not do our share. They had to protect our coastline because we are indifferent to our defence..

Why should we be greatful, they stood down the Russian Bear for us, protected our airspace and our coast, provided search and rescue to our citizens as we would not invest in it to the degree required ourselves.... Your right, why should we be greatful....... As long as the guy next door has a fence, an alarm system and owns a gun, I don't need to worry about criminals do I.........

[jester]

As long as the guy next door has a fence, an alarm system and owns a gun, I don't need to worry about criminals do I......

What happens though when the guy next door starts thinking that the neighbours wife on the other side is better looking and friendlier than yours?

[Liam]

As long as the guy next door has a fence, an alarm system and owns a gun, I don't need to worry about criminals do I......

What happens though when the guy next door starts thinking that the neighbours wife on the other side is better looking and friendlier than yours?

OMG... you cannot be serious. Canada is so not on the horizon of US military objectives. I'm sure it's an ego boost to think that you are (and I'm not saying you don't have resources the US covets, b/c you do), but US commercial interests also respect property interests. The US can access all it wants to get from Canadian resources by tapping commercial interests. The US has absolutely no designs on Canada or in apppropriating Canadian property beyond what it already does.

[weaponeer]

As long as the guy next door has a fence, an alarm system and owns a gun, I don't need to worry about criminals do I......

What happens though when the guy next door starts thinking that the neighbours wife on the other side is better looking and friendlier than yours?

Well,

If your man enough to protect your own airspace, your own coastline, your own people without asking the neighbour to do it, your wife may actually think YOUR a man and stick around. She would have no need to dream about the real man next door...........

[Wilber]

Well,

If your man enough to protect your own airspace, your own coastline, your own people without asking the neighbour to do it, your wife may actually think YOUR a man and stick around. She would have no need to dream about the real man next door...........

Priceless

[speaker]

So what you are suggesting is that we should be preparing ourselves to do battle with the Americans? An interesting view, how would our resources be best spent?

[geoffrey]

So what you are suggesting is that we should be preparing ourselves to do battle with the Americans? An interesting view, how would our resources be best spent?

On good lawyers to negotiate the surrender.

[Higgly]

Well I know that I personally was losing sleep worrying about an attack from Saddam. Every noise in the night had me in a cold sweat. Really. Just horrible.

[marcinmoka]

Influence is FAR more powerful than control.

Having a population that respects you is far, far more effective for both parties than a population which fears you.

[Mad_Michael]

It upsets me when certain westerners go on diatribes stating that the US is in contempt of Canada and all other nations. Like it or not, they have acted as our protector, since our security is aligned to their own, all while granting us our own sovereignty.

1812, US nuclear missiles and the Arctic come to mind as classic examples of the US ignoring Canadian sovereignty.

Rather I think the Americans only respect it when it is convenient, rather than stand as any kind of protector there of.

It would be naive to believe that overall, their conceptualization of 'self interest' would wholly exclude the interests of other (allied) nations. The bungling of the Iraq war has done one miraculous thing in terms of US Foreign Policy, it made them realize again that they cannot go at it alone, otherwise they will face peril in light of up and coming geo political power struggles!

Unfortunately, our American friends have apparently learned NOTHING from their Iraqi debacle.

Not surprising that - our good American friends still haven't taken any lesson to heart from Vietnam yet.

Indeed, if they learned any lesson from Vietnam, they would not have invaded Iraq.

I see no signs of the USA changing any policy on the international or foreign level. "Stay the course" is Bush's middle name.

Lots of media spinning and wishful thinking upon the topic though...

[bush_cheney2004]

Unfortunately, our American friends have apparently learned NOTHING from their Iraqi debacle.

Not surprising that - our good American friends still haven't taken any lesson to heart from Vietnam yet.

Indeed, if they learned any lesson from Vietnam, they would not have invaded Iraq.

I see no signs of the USA changing any policy on the international or foreign level. "Stay the course" is Bush's middle name.

Lots of media spinning and wishful thinking upon the topic though...

Why should the Americans change anything at all? Hell, Canada made billions from the war in Vietnam and is doing the same thing right now.

Gee...hasn't Canada learned anything.....it sure ha$!!! (Please send more DU.)

[marcinmoka]

I see no signs of the USA changing any policy on the international or foreign level. "Stay the course" is Bush's middle name.

And presumably, in your world view, Bush will be "staying the course" for the next century and dictating American foreign policy?

I see no signs of the USA changing any policy on the international or foreign level.

Perhaps its because you are using tarrot cards? Try the world around you, one would be surprised.

I see multi-lateral talks with N. Korea, and a partial reinstitution of diplomatic ties with Iran as being a good sign. (i.e the balance of the Axis of "Evil")