Opposition Parties Set Stage for Srping Election.

[Michael Bluth]

So here is the issue that will lead to an election. Link

Do the NDP, Liberals and Bloq really think that Joe Public is really that committed to international emissions carbon trading?

Try as they will they are asking for an election with this move.

Gotta like David McGuinty's take on this election.

"I think they're really trying to delay this so they can unleash an election and try to allege that all the opposition parties are trying to wreak economic havoc on the country," said McGuinty. "It will be a campaign of fear."

So they are trying to turn the tables on scary scary scary?

[blueblood]

With the right spin, this would be great for the gov't to fall on.

[ScottSA]

So here is the issue that will lead to an election. Link

Do the NDP, Liberals and Bloq really think that Joe Public is really that committed to international emissions carbon trading?

Try as they will they are asking for an election with this move.

Gotta like David McGuinty's take on this election.

"I think they're really trying to delay this so they can unleash an election and try to allege that all the opposition parties are trying to wreak economic havoc on the country," said McGuinty. "It will be a campaign of fear."

So they are trying to turn the tables on scary scary scary?

I think all the parties are sceptical of the environment as a prime election issue. It's far too abstract, and the Church of Global Warming gets another kick in its shins every day, so its a risky horse to hitch to at the best of times. It's also an issue that the left is virtually identical on, so even if it did become a major issue, the far left would tend to take the single issue environment vote.

But I agree. The Tories would like nothing better than to have one of the other parties force an election on those grounds.

[Martin Chriton]

Do the NDP, Liberals and Bloq really think that Joe Public is really that committed to international emissions carbon trading?

Wow. So the Liberals support international emission carbon trading now as well?

What a disaster it would be if they ever get elected.

[blueblood]

Do the NDP, Liberals and Bloq really think that Joe Public is really that committed to international emissions carbon trading?

Wow. So the Liberals support international emission carbon trading now as well?

What a disaster it would be if they ever get elected.

They always supported it, they're trying to sell us on it even.

[Michael Bluth]

Wow. So the Liberals support international emission carbon trading now as well?

What a disaster it would be if they ever get elected.

It seems almost too easy for the Conservatives.

That scares me.

The old adage if something seems to good to be true.

[jdobbin]

With the right spin, this would be great for the gov't to fall on.

Given the last polls on support for the environment and support for the Tories, it would require one heck of a lot of spin to get a majority out of this.

It is possible the Tories won't make this a confidence vote just as they didn't with the Kelowna vote just a short time ago.

[ScottSA]

Do the NDP, Liberals and Bloq really think that Joe Public is really that committed to international emissions carbon trading?

Wow. So the Liberals support international emission carbon trading now as well?

What a disaster it would be if they ever get elected.

No wait...you've got the wrong idea. This is the Liberals we;re talking about. They say lots of things, but do very little. If they were elected there's no chance they'd actually DO anything they said...they signed on to Kyoto years ago, and then promptly ignored it while tsk tsking the Americans for not signing. What matters to the Liberals is what the SAY they'll do, not what they'll do.

[Michael Bluth]

Given the last polls on support for the environment and support for the Tories, it would require one heck of a lot of spin to get a majority out of this.

It is possible the Tories won't make this a confidence vote just as they didn't with the Kelowna vote just a short time ago.

You used the plural "polls".

Look at the last six polls released two Strategic Counsel, two Ipsos-Reid, one Decima, one Angus Reid. Half have the Conservatives in majority territory 38+%. All of them pre-date the Quebec election.

Remember the Liberals won a majority in 1997 with a little under 38.5% of the vote.

It is *possible* the Government will last until 2010. Not bloody likely though...

[Canuck E Stan]

Do the NDP, Liberals and Bloq really think that Joe Public is really that committed to international emissions carbon trading?

Wow. So the Liberals support international emission carbon trading now as well?

What a disaster it would be if they ever get elected.

They always supported it, they're trying to sell us on it even.

Liberal leader touts going green to get rich

The Liberals would also spend heavily on promoting research and development into more environmentally friendly technology, but Dion, conscious of his business audience, promised the Liberal environment program would be a boon to the economy as well.

''The economic opportunities are enormous: countries that embrace the environment as a core priority will lead the global economy in the 21st century,'' he said. ''Yes, Canada will cut megatonnes of emissions, but we will also make megatonnes of money.''

"Canada will cut megatonnes of emissions and we will also make megatonnes of money"-Stephane Dion

"We" like in Canada,or "we" like the governing Liberal Party?

I can see it now, "we" impose financial rules and regulations on industry, today, and tomorrow the money comes pouring in. What a simple concept.

Then after industry raises the price of of gas and electricity and all goods they make to pay these penalties, then "we" would have even more megatonnes of cash from sales taxes and GST that "we" pay when "we" buy these goods.

And should companies have their goods made outside of Canada instead of in Canada "we" can tax the hell out of their goods and pay higher sales taxes when "we" buy these higher priced goods."We" would make even much more megatonnes of money.

What a brilliant concept! Oui?

Vote Liberal, the "we" "oui" party

[Michael Bluth]

''The economic opportunities are enormous: countries that embrace the environment as a core priority will lead the global economy in the 21st century,'' he said. ''Yes, Canada will cut megatonnes of emissions, but we will also make megatonnes of money.''

Can somebody explain how this megatonnes of money will work?

Under the Liberals we will pay billions of dollars to buy emissions credits, because that is the only way we can meet the Kyoto targets. Nobody disputes that.

So we will make megatonnes of money buy sending billions of dollars offshore?

But doesn't making money mean having money come *into* the country?

[August1991]

Can somebody explain how this megatonnes of money will work?

I think the idea is that Canadian firms would develop new technology to reduce GHG emissions. Each tonne of CO2 not emitted into teh atmosphere is worh around $30.

The key quote in the article above is this:

The revised bill will contain a commitment to international emissions carbon trading under the Kyoto Protocol. The government has rejected that as a scheme to send billions of taxpayers dollars abroad for Russian hot air.

International carbon trading is a key element of Kyoto and so the Liberals (Dion) could run their campaign as whether Canada should respect Kyoto or not.

The Tories would run the campaign on whether we should send money to Russia (or India or China).

In a few days, the campaign would involve X other issues.

Harper might be giving enough signals that he plans to call an election anyway so that the opposition decides to decide the time and issue.

----

Judging by posters to this forum, Kyoto and emissions trading are a losing proposition. But that's not how many potential Liberal voters might see it.

[Michael Bluth]

International carbon trading is a key element of Kyoto and so the Liberals (Dion) could run their campaign as whether Canada should respect Kyoto or not.

The Tories would run the campaign on whether we should send money to Russia (or India or China).

In a few days, the campaign would involve X other issues.

That's why I think it sounds too good to be true.

Going to the polls over Kyoto automatically nullifies the "early election" issue.

When it is illustrated how much money will be spent on buying emissions the Conservatives have a winner. They only need 2 out of every 5 people to agree that it is too much money being spent.

Then look for the Conservatives to roll out their platform in a calculated manner?

[ScottSA]

''The economic opportunities are enormous: countries that embrace the environment as a core priority will lead the global economy in the 21st century,'' he said. ''Yes, Canada will cut megatonnes of emissions, but we will also make megatonnes of money.''

Can somebody explain how this megatonnes of money will work?

Under the Liberals we will pay billions of dollars to buy emissions credits, because that is the only way we can meet the Kyoto targets. Nobody disputes that.

So we will make megatonnes of money buy sending billions of dollars offshore?

But doesn't making money mean having money come *into* the country?

Don't be so capitalistic. It's really quite simple. You sign Kyoto, take money out of the Treasury to buy credits, don't buy credits, put megatonnes of money in suitcases and brown envelopes...

[Michael Bluth]

Don't be so capitalistic. It's really quite simple. You sign Kyoto, take money out of the Treasury to buy credits, don't buy credits, put megatonnes of money in suitcases and brown envelopes...

How many suitcases and envelopes do you need told hold $1.14 Million?

Why did the Mint get rid of 1000 dollar bills?

[ScottSA]

Don't be so capitalistic. It's really quite simple. You sign Kyoto, take money out of the Treasury to buy credits, don't buy credits, put megatonnes of money in suitcases and brown envelopes...

How many suitcases and envelopes do you need told hold $1.14 Million?

Why did the Mint get rid of 1000 dollar bills?

Too easy to trace. Getting rid of them was one of the Liberals' "strategic initiatives" back when they figured Ottawa was pretty much wrapped up forever.

[August1991]

When it is illustrated how much money will be spent on buying emissions the Conservatives have a winner. They only need 2 out of every 5 people to agree that it is too much money being spent.

It wouldn't be presented that way.

The Liberals would argue that Canada must respect Kyoto and its signature on an international treaty.

Kyoto is a litmus test.

Don't forget. This forum is not representative of Canadian voters and much less of potential Liberal voters.

Anyway, I don't think it'll happen because the BQ will support the Tories in the end. The BQ does not want an election.

Don't be so capitalistic. It's really quite simple. You sign Kyoto, take money out of the Treasury to buy credits, don't buy credits, put megatonnes of money in suitcases and brown envelopes...

If the Conservative strategy in the next election is to use the sponsorship scandal again, they'll look stupid and lose.

How many suitcases and envelopes do you need told hold $1.14 Million?

One new, clean bill is about 0.1 mm thick and weighs about 1 gram. So 10,000 $100 bills (= $1 million) would be a stack about 1 metre high and weigh about 10 kgs.

That would fit easily in a student knapsack.

Incidentally, there's a €500 note and European money is thinner and lighter (and worth more). You could fit $1 million in euros in a lunch bag. The security features are better than US dollars too.

I think euros are becoming the drug/black market money of choice for this reason.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

If an election is called I think it would be very entertaining. The green initiative is gaining public support. Global warming is a hot topic which will divert attention from the budget issues the Harper government has created. Talk about opportunities for beatings!

[Michael Bluth]

Incidentally, there's a €500 note and European money is thinner and lighter (and worth more). You could fit $1 million in euros in a lunch bag. The security features are better than US dollars too.

I think euros are becoming the drug/black market money of choice for this reason.

Interesting.

I know that the Mint got rid of the $1,000s because it was too easy to transport vast sums of money with them.

[Argus]

If an election is called I think it would be very entertaining. The green initiative is gaining public support. Global warming is a hot topic which will divert attention from the budget issues the Harper government has created. Talk about opportunities for beatings!

People generally are in favour of Kyoto, but generally know almost nothing about it. If the Liberals run on it they'll have to explain why they did nothing for fourteen years, and then why shipping hundreds of millions of dollars to China and Russia is going to help the environment. Worse for them, people might actually begin to pay attention to what Kyoto is about and start looking behind the surface of the Global Warming simpletons to see what a farce it all is.

[Michael Bluth]

The Liberals would argue that Canada must respect Kyoto and its signature on an international treaty.

Kyoto is a litmus test.

Don't forget. This forum is not representative of Canadian voters and much less of potential Liberal voters.

Say what you will about respecting a signature on an international treaty.

The Conservatives only need to find 2 out of every 5 actual voters who think thousands left in their pockets is worth more than some signature signed by a former Prime Minister who knew the targets were unrealistic.

[Martin Chriton]

Does any Liberal supporter here actually like the idea of Canada participating in an international carbon market?

To me it sounds like the Conservatives plan to reduce the GST even though an income tax cut would've been a better choice. Except that this could end up being a few orders of magnitude more costly.

[jdobbin]

Does any Liberal supporter here actually like the idea of Canada participating in an international carbon market?

To me it sounds like the Conservatives plan to reduce the GST even though an income tax cut would've been a better choice. Except that this could end up being a few orders of magnitude more costly.

More and more countries are participating in it including many states in the U.S. I don't know if it actually reduces carbon emissions.

The Liberal plan was not working at all. The Conservatives didn't have one at all until recently and even now, it is hard to see what overall direction it is going in.

There will be increasing international pressure on Canada to comply to the treaty though.

[Catchme]

The Liberals would argue that Canada must respect Kyoto and its signature on an international treaty. Kyoto is a litmus test. Don't forget. This forum is not representative of Canadian voters and much less of potential Liberal voters.

Say what you will about respecting a signature on an international treaty.

The Conservatives only need to find 2 out of every 5 actual voters who think thousands left in their pockets is worth more than some signature signed by a former Prime Minister who knew the targets were unrealistic.

If the CPC start breaking international treaties, like Bush did, watch for the backlash, we weren't too pleased about Bush breaking the USA's we sure are not going to like our own government doing it. But, heh please feel free to to believe Canadians would accept iit! LOLOL

Moreover, hope Harper brings the government down soon, as people in BC, Calgary, and maybe even SK are going to be under water because of climate change, and they won't be too willing to vote for those who will do nothing towards helping the planet, aka the CPC.

Some people actually want a future for their children.

[scribblet]

The Liberals would argue that Canada must respect Kyoto and its signature on an international treaty.

Kyoto is a litmus test.

Don't forget. This forum is not representative of Canadian voters and much less of potential Liberal voters.

Say what you will about respecting a signature on an international treaty.

The Conservatives only need to find 2 out of every 5 actual voters who think thousands left in their pockets is worth more than some signature signed by a former Prime Minister who knew the targets were unrealistic.

Right, and if most people knew what Kyoto was actually about they wouldn't support it. I'd wager most people would not be willing to change their lifestyles to the extent required to make even a minimal impact of the climate (if at all).