obsidian Posted March 23, 2007 Report Posted March 23, 2007 We all know, or should know, that on sept 10th donald rumsfeld announced that there was 2.3 trillion dollars unaccounted for by the DOD. The next day sept 11th occured, we were swept up and many forgot. The fact still remains 2.3 trillion is unaccounted for, and after 9/11 billions upon billions are being spent. It seems that the military-industrial complex has taken over. There was no penalization, nothing. We were forewarned about this by President Eisenhower in his farewell adress. It is happening. watch 1st 2nd(Full version of eisenhowers speech) and if you find this concerning http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-49...&q=why+we+fight the above is highly credible. its 1:39 and it has appeared on both the CBC and BBC. Quote
Mad_Michael Posted March 23, 2007 Report Posted March 23, 2007 ...It seems that the military-industrial complex has taken over. There was no penalization, nothing. We were forewarned about this by President Eisenhower in his farewell adress. It is happening. Agreed. President Eisenhower's remarkable warning went unheeded - almost ignored. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 23, 2007 Report Posted March 23, 2007 What do you expect Canada to do? It is part of the Military Industrial Complex. Eisenhower was President of the United States....he is dead. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
obsidian Posted March 23, 2007 Author Report Posted March 23, 2007 are you retarded? if it pertained to canada i would post it in the federal politics section. however this is US politics, dum dum. you think because someones dead its irrelevant? he forewarned us, and the exact same thing is happening. if you watched the videos you would see. you have to be especially ignorant to not realise the fact that US policy affects the entire world. Yes even us...we only share the worlds largest border with them : | i hate people who need to be spoon fed Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 23, 2007 Report Posted March 23, 2007 are you retarded? if it pertained to canada i would post it in the federal politics section. however this is US politics, dum dum. you think because someones dead its irrelevant? he forewarned us, and the exact same thing is happening. if you watched the videos you would see.you have to be especially ignorant to not realise the fact that US policy affects the entire world. Yes even us...we only share the worlds largest border with them : | i hate people who need to be spoon fed Then I guess you need to be spoon fed, to wit: 1) Ike is dead....governments have come and gone with ebb and flow in military spending. 2) The world was much more dangerous when Ike was alive (Cold War Megatonnage); grandpa and grandma had it a lot tougher than you. 3) If you are not a US citizen, there is little you can do about "US policy". Even the citizens only get one vote....same as in Canada. 4) If you are a Canadian citizen, ask your own government the hard questions first. 5) US policy is the same as it ever was....it's only new to you. ...that's why "we" aren't doing anything. Now I will remove the spoon so you can ask more stupid questions. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
BubberMiley Posted March 23, 2007 Report Posted March 23, 2007 In other words, in answer to Obsidian's question, yes. Quote "I think it's fun watching the waldick get all excited/knickers in a knot over something." -scribblet
obsidian Posted March 23, 2007 Author Report Posted March 23, 2007 this isnt anything i even planned on discussing. the arms industry has taken control, and dictates our politicians and policy. does the us stockpile weapons constantly because they think they are never going to use them? , do you not even remember what the USSR was? and you think this day and age is less dangerous? THEN WHY ARE THEY SPENDING MORE NOW. he didnt warn about his present, he warned about our future. as for not caring or w/e you propose cause i dont have a vote, that just seems pretty juvenile. we remain powerless over policy because people think like you, shouldnt the people have a say if not control foreign policy? or do you (as they would think) think we are too stupid to meddle in affairs that concern us? and mikey, its not the man, its the information that pertains to today, how is it irrelevant? $2.3 trillion = roughly $8000 per man, woman, and child in the US Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 23, 2007 Report Posted March 23, 2007 this isnt anything i even planned on discussing. the arms industry has taken control, and dictates our politicians and policy. does the us stockpile weapons constantly because they think they are never going to use them? , do you not even remember what the USSR was? and you think this day and age is less dangerous? THEN WHY ARE THEY SPENDING MORE NOW. he didnt warn about his present, he warned about our future. as for not caring or w/e you propose cause i dont have a vote, that just seems pretty juvenile. we remain powerless over policy because people think like you, shouldnt the people have a say if not control foreign policy? or do you (as they would think) think we are too stupid to meddle in affairs that concern us?and mikey, its not the man, its the information that pertains to today, how is it irrelevant? What are you talking about? The Americans are actually spending less as a percentage of GDP compared to previous wars and conflicts, one of which was to preserve your Empire and Commonwealth....hell, we almost went broke financing, fighting, and rebuilding Europe. The "arms industry" has actually declined since the 1980's build up by President Reagan. Sorry...he was another American president who didn't ask you for your opinion about foreign and domestic policy. Europe reaped the rewards starting in 1989. The US President proposes an annual budget every fiscal year and appropriations are approved by Congress. It's not a perfect system but it works for us, even with deficit spending. If you like speeches by dead presidents, Teddy Roosevelt said we should "Walk softly and carry a big stick", like this one: http://navysite.de/cvn/cvn71.jpg Big sticks cost lots of money. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
obsidian Posted March 23, 2007 Author Report Posted March 23, 2007 well these weapons cost billions upon billions. the problem i'm stating is that the defense industry influences policy, funds political campaigns, and this inevitably leads to war. this bias undermines democracy, we're still in iraq despite some of the worlds largest peace rallies, dwindling political support, and around 30% approval for the war. you may say they're adressing these problems, but bush already said he would veto any proposal for troop withdrawl. u say they spend less % of GDP now, but was there GDP approx 13 trillion at that time? also, i agree back then they could actually justify it, the USSR was an EXISTING (opposed to non-existing) threat. now they are the sole superpower, and wheres the justification? terrorist funding is in the hundreds of millions, they spend 400 thousand millions... and we still see how ineffective it is, atleast let this 425 billion justify a swift defeat. instead it is mounting upon the multi-trillion dollar debt (58 trillion estimated total debt), which IMO won't be paid. the pentagon isn't even reliable, why have you not remarked on the 2.3 trillion UNACCOUNTED for(defense spending 425 billion) this is nearly 20% of the united states GDP...IN ONE YEAR. and i cant believe you're (content?) thinking that you have no control, and what ever happens happens. the government is supposed to serve the people, even if it hasnt been for the last few decades, its the way its supposed to be.... Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 23, 2007 Report Posted March 23, 2007 well these weapons cost billions upon billions.the problem i'm stating is that the defense industry influences policy, funds political campaigns, and this inevitably leads to war. this bias undermines democracy, we're still in iraq despite some of the worlds largest peace rallies, dwindling political support, and around 30% approval for the war. you may say they're adressing these problems, but bush already said he would veto any proposal for troop withdrawl. u say they spend less % of GDP now, but was there GDP approx 13 trillion at that time? also, i agree back then they could actually justify it, the USSR was an EXISTING (opposed to non-existing) threat. now they are the sole superpower, and wheres the justification? terrorist funding is in the hundreds of millions, they spend 400 thousand millions... and we still see how ineffective it is, atleast let this 425 billion justify a swift defeat. instead it is mounting upon the multi-trillion dollar debt (58 trillion estimated total debt), which IMO won't be paid. the pentagon isn't even reliable, why have you not remarked on the 2.3 trillion UNACCOUNTED for(defense spending 425 billion) this is nearly 20% of the united states GDP...IN ONE YEAR. and i cant believe you're (content?) thinking that you have no control, and what ever happens happens. the government is supposed to serve the people, even if it hasnt been for the last few decades, its the way its supposed to be.... "We" are in Iraq? Who is "we"? The largest portion of the US federal budget goes to social programs, not the military industrial complex. There is no $58 trillion debt....those are projections for entitlements for the next umpteen years. You are making numbers up that don't exist except for conspiracy sites. And yes, I am content. What do you care...aren't you in Canada? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guthrie Posted March 24, 2007 Report Posted March 24, 2007 ..."We" are in Iraq? Who is "we"? The largest portion of the US federal budget goes to social programs, not the military industrial complex. There is no $58 trillion debt....those are projections for entitlements for the next umpteen years. You are making numbers up that don't exist except for conspiracy sites. And yes, I am content. What do you care...aren't you in Canada? This is wrong - it is only by including Social Security that social programs spend more than military --- Social Security was started and remained, separate from the US budget until the fascists decided to raid it and steal what they could. Ike was sincere and correct. Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. - Ike Quote “Most middle-class whites have no idea what it feels like to be subjected to police who are routinely suspicious, rude, belligerent, and brutal” - Benjamin Spock MD
Guthrie Posted March 24, 2007 Report Posted March 24, 2007 "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid." President Dwight D. Eisenhower, l952 Quote “Most middle-class whites have no idea what it feels like to be subjected to police who are routinely suspicious, rude, belligerent, and brutal” - Benjamin Spock MD
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2007 Report Posted March 24, 2007 This is wrong - it is only by including Social Security that social programs spend more than military --- Social Security was started and remained, separate from the US budget until the fascists decided to raid it and steal what they could. Bull puckey....Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment, Welfare all add up to more. Old people and entitlements cost way more than war: US Federal Budget for 2006 @ $2.6 trillion: $544.8 billion (20.90%) - Social Security $447.4 billion (17.17%) - Defense $359.5 billion (13.79%) - Unemployment and welfare $345.7 billion (13.26%) - Medicare $268.4 billion (10.30%) - Medicaid and other health related $211.1 billion (8.10%) - Interest on debt $88.7 billion (3.40%) - Education and training $70.7 billion (2.71%) - Transportation $68.4 billion (2.62%) - Veterans' benefits $43.1 billion (1.65%) - Administration of justice $38.4 billion (1.47%) - Foreign affairs $31.2 billion (1.20%) - Natural resources and environment $26.0 billion (1.00%) - Agriculture $24.0 billion (0.92%) - Science and technology $19.1 billion (0.73%) - Community and regional development $17.8 billion (0.68%) - General government $2.1 billion (0.08%) - Energy States spend many more billions on social programs. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guthrie Posted March 24, 2007 Report Posted March 24, 2007 ...By law, the Social Security program is treated as an "off-budget" entity, and its financial figures are displayed separately from the rest of the budget. The separate display, along with the use of trust funds as an accounting device, is a means of distinguishing the program's finances from those of other government activities. ... http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=3650&sequence=0 the treasury handles SS funds but it is separate from the Federal Budget the largest part of the Federal Budget is Military --- it should not be - Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. - Eisenhower Quote “Most middle-class whites have no idea what it feels like to be subjected to police who are routinely suspicious, rude, belligerent, and brutal” - Benjamin Spock MD
obsidian Posted March 24, 2007 Author Report Posted March 24, 2007 who do you think those texans were? i have an inkling... and cheney SS isnt included... i cant believe you don't think the US affects Canadians, they affect nearly everything here in Canada, and therefore it makes logical sense to be concerned(especially with conservatives in power here). and still people, the 2.3 trillion missing. why no comment? it's ALOT of money. and even more recently that 12 billion cash flown into iraq that dissapeared. and i still think the % of GDP spent isn't relative. it should be based on other countries spending. does anyone agree? "who is we"...not gonna take out my spoon, your mouth tarnishes it Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2007 Report Posted March 24, 2007 i cant believe you don't think the US affects Canadians, they affect nearly everything here in Canada, and therefore it makes logical sense to be concerned(especially with conservatives in power here). If the US affects nearly everything in Canada then perhaps you should worry more about Canada than things you have no control over in the USA. If you must be concerned, start with your part of the world. Start by getting the Stanley Cup back! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
obsidian Posted March 24, 2007 Author Report Posted March 24, 2007 i think the US influences Canada more than Canadians... and are you sure you don't work for the governent lol? "your post is stupid, you live in canada, you shouldnt care" followed by pointless discussion, because you were trying to disprove me then others posted, everyone but you took it for what its worth, and already had knowledge(atleast some) on the subject. instead of admitting defeat, you say "Start by getting the Stanley Cup back!" trying to instill national pride? like the stanley cup means shit... i know that you most likely dont, but still...your response is sooo typical of what they try to do to us. or maybe its just monkey see monkey do. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2007 Report Posted March 24, 2007 i think the US influences Canada more than Canadians...and are you sure you don't work for the governent lol? "your post is stupid, you live in canada, you shouldnt care" followed by pointless discussion, because you were trying to disprove me then others posted, everyone but you took it for what its worth, and already had knowledge(atleast some) on the subject. instead of admitting defeat, you say "Start by getting the Stanley Cup back!" trying to instill national pride? like the stanley cup means shit... i know that you most likely dont, but still...your response is sooo typical of what they try to do to us. or maybe its just monkey see monkey do. I can only assume that English is a second language for you, because much of what you post doesn't make any sense. To many Canadians, the Stanley Cup means a lot more than "shit". Canadians who worry about the US have no other way to define themselves. Trudeau taught them that. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Guthrie Posted March 24, 2007 Report Posted March 24, 2007 Well, that explains that Pew Research poll Quote “Most middle-class whites have no idea what it feels like to be subjected to police who are routinely suspicious, rude, belligerent, and brutal” - Benjamin Spock MD
obsidian Posted March 24, 2007 Author Report Posted March 24, 2007 uhm, i think just you don't understand it... but i guess ill take out my spoon again... its a generalized summary dialogue of your posts. ESL wow so now you've sunk even lower. i think you're a more likely candidate for ESL than i am. based on the fact that you could not interpet a simple post. ok alot of people in canada care about the stanley cup. but what does it mean asides from national pride(through hockey -.-), more money in sponsors for the winner, and ANOTHER distraction from the outside world. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2007 Report Posted March 24, 2007 ok alot of people in canada care about the stanley cup. but what does it mean asides from national pride(through hockey -.-), more money in sponsors for the winner, and ANOTHER distraction from the outside world. But that is the point.....many Canadians...like Americans, make the CHOICE of dedicating time and money to their favorite "distraction". Why should your version of propaganda and distraction be given equal or greater importance? The "outside world" also has such distractions. Right now many are watching the 2007 Cricket World Cup, even if folks back home are starving. Sorry about the ESL crack...but I'm having trouble with your syntax. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
obsidian Posted March 24, 2007 Author Report Posted March 24, 2007 i just think its sad that people have been warning us for decades (eisenhower) and nothing has hindered it from happening. and there's nothing wrong with sports, im on team ontarios football team. i just thought it was odd that you would mention that giving the subject we are talking on. sports, drugs, sex, among others things are all used to fill a void that we have. they are very much bandaid fixes, which i don't think is right. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 24, 2007 Report Posted March 24, 2007 i just think its sad that people have been warning us for decades (eisenhower) and nothing has hindered it from happening. and there's nothing wrong with sports, im on team ontarios football team. i just thought it was odd that you would mention that giving the subject we are talking on. sports, drugs, sex, among others things are all used to fill a void that we have. they are very much bandaid fixes, which i don't think is right. That's fine, but the collective will of people and their market choices determine how to fill the "void". It is their choice to make, and only yours to judge if you must. Eisenhower presided over a booming post-WWII era in American growth for both consumers and Cold War militarization. This included: 1) War in Korea and Vietnam 2) Massive investment in strategic nuclear forces 3) Interstate highway construction for defense purposes 4) NATO bases in Europe 5) Rebuilding of Germany and Japan as Cold War proxies 6) Militarization of space Look not at what Ike said, but rather at what he did. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
obsidian Posted March 24, 2007 Author Report Posted March 24, 2007 i'm not praising eisenhower for anything he did, all i am saying is the title of my thread Quote
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