300

[Black Dog]

No, you tried to slide the argument in that direction, by implicitely calling me a homosexual, so I had to correct you a couple times.

If we want to split hairs, if anyone was implying anyone was gay, it was you. Actually, scratch that: you came out and stated that people who saw gay themes in 300 were expressing latent homosexual desires of their own. That you would poo-poo such amateurish psychoanalysis and then immediately engage in it yourself simply shows your own inconsistency. To recap: IYV, "upside down streetcorner psychology" is bad except when you use it.

find that most people that I have talked to about this movie, and the only thing they have to comment about was the half naked men, either A missed the boat on the warrior code or the pride a man feels as a soldier, or B are insecure about there masculinity and make fun of things like wrestling (not wwf wrestling, i mean real wrestling). Wrestling is a grueling tough sport and to keep competitively in it you have to be in very good shape. But this just goes to show that the de-masculization of men has taken such a strong hold in North America. I can't tell the women apart from the Men half the time anymore. Since when has it been okay for a guy to wear pink or drive a yellow car. Some of the fellas i see put more time into getting ready then some of the girls. I dunno, i guess I'm the last of a dieing breed who would rather dive in the mud then get a manicure.

See, it's hard not to mock macho types when they get squirrelly over things like wearing pink shirts...

Naw, you're in the vanguard of resurgent male pride. The feminization of society is on its way out.

...or engage in reflexive misoginy.

So limiting.

[ScottSA]

. Since when has it been okay for a guy to wear pink or drive a yellow car. Some of the fellas i see put more time into getting ready then some of the girls. I dunno, i guess I'm the last of a dieing breed who would rather dive in the mud then get a manicure.

Pink ....I have worn pink shirts for many years. In the 80s pink Lacoste were all the rage . And I ALWAYS get a manicure after the mud dive. (We are talking therapeutic mud baths arent we?)

Nobody has called me gay. ..............at least not to my face.

Do they only call you gay to the back of your head?

*snicker* j/k

[ScottSA]

No, you tried to slide the argument in that direction, by implicitely calling me a homosexual, so I had to correct you a couple times.

If we want to split hairs, if anyone was implying anyone was gay, it was you. Actually, scratch that: you came out and stated that people who saw gay themes in 300 were expressing latent homosexual desires of their own. That you would poo-poo such amateurish psychoanalysis and then immediately engage in it yourself simply shows your own inconsistency. To recap: IYV, "upside down streetcorner psychology" is bad except when you use it.

find that most people that I have talked to about this movie, and the only thing they have to comment about was the half naked men, either A missed the boat on the warrior code or the pride a man feels as a soldier, or B are insecure about there masculinity and make fun of things like wrestling (not wwf wrestling, i mean real wrestling). Wrestling is a grueling tough sport and to keep competitively in it you have to be in very good shape. But this just goes to show that the de-masculization of men has taken such a strong hold in North America. I can't tell the women apart from the Men half the time anymore. Since when has it been okay for a guy to wear pink or drive a yellow car. Some of the fellas i see put more time into getting ready then some of the girls. I dunno, i guess I'm the last of a dieing breed who would rather dive in the mud then get a manicure.

See, it's hard not to mock macho types when they get squirrelly over things like wearing pink shirts...

Naw, you're in the vanguard of resurgent male pride. The feminization of society is on its way out.

...or engage in reflexive misoginy.

So limiting.

Very lame.

[Black Dog]

Very lame.

Hey lookee: he tapped out.

[ScottSA]

Very lame.

Hey lookee: he tapped out.

I tapped out because you've resorted to snide flaming. You have in no way shown how 300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity, and in fact have been shown that there is no mysogyny (the heroine was portrayed as heroic), there was no homoeroticism (your point that the Spartans were portrayed as masculine is in some way "homoerotic" is foolish and unsubstantiated), and you generally resorted to the streetcorner psychology of the last century to try to say that masculinity is really latent homosexuality). It was silly in the 80s and 90s and it's no less silly today.

[moderateamericain]

Very lame.

Hey lookee: he tapped out.

I tapped out because you've resorted to snide flaming. You have in no way shown how 300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity, and in fact have been shown that there is no mysogyny (the heroine was portrayed as heroic), there was no homoeroticism (your point that the Spartans were portrayed as masculine is in some way "homoerotic" is foolish and unsubstantiated), and you generally resorted to the streetcorner psychology of the last century to try to say that masculinity is really latent homosexuality). It was silly in the 80s and 90s and it's no less silly today.

Opinions aside, I'd rather feel like a man, then a female. What works for me might not work for others. Guess im just secure in my sexuality and have no desire to be the opposite sex.

[M.Dancer]

300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity

That's so gay I thinkit was the Pride Toronto slogan for 1998

[ScottSA]

300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity

That's so gay I thinkit was the Pride Toronto slogan for 1998

Yep, back in the last millenium the feminization crowd pretty much had everyone convinced that prancing about in pink tutus was what real men did and that acting like men traditionally do was an acknowledgement of latent homosexuality. Silly, but thank God that was 1998 and not this millenium.

[M.Dancer]

300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity

That's so gay I thinkit was the Pride Toronto slogan for 1998

Yep, back in the last millenium the feminization crowd pretty much had everyone convinced that prancing about in pink tutus was what real men did and that acting like men traditionally do was an acknowledgement of latent homosexuality. Silly, but thank God that was 1998 and not this millenium.

http://www.darrinzammitlupi.com/greekarmy.JPG

[moderateamericain]

300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity

That's so gay I thinkit was the Pride Toronto slogan for 1998

Yep, back in the last millenium the feminization crowd pretty much had everyone convinced that prancing about in pink tutus was what real men did and that acting like men traditionally do was an acknowledgement of latent homosexuality. Silly, but thank God that was 1998 and not this millenium.

I guess the REAL question is how did men get duped by this.

[ScottSA]

300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity

That's so gay I thinkit was the Pride Toronto slogan for 1998

Yep, back in the last millenium the feminization crowd pretty much had everyone convinced that prancing about in pink tutus was what real men did and that acting like men traditionally do was an acknowledgement of latent homosexuality. Silly, but thank God that was 1998 and not this millenium.

http://www.darrinzammitlupi.com/greekarmy.JPG

Those are Greeks. That doesn't count. No, wait...but they're not Spartans!

[M.Dancer]

Men in lace and silk managed to do a bang up job of conquering the known world in the 18th century.....pigeon holing people with labels for their colour choices is a mugs game.

[ScottSA]

Men in lace and silk managed to do a bang up job of conquering the known world in the 18th century.....pigeon holing people with labels for their colour choices is a mugs game.

Actually, i think you'll find that their field uniforms were a little less lacy than their dress attire. All that lace tends to get caught up in brambles and such as you're chasing the enemy hither and yon.

[Canadian Blue]

When I was alive in 1998 I didn't notice men dancing around in pink tutu's, I think that was in an episode of the Simpson's though.

I tapped out because you've resorted to snide flaming. You have in no way shown how 300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity, and in fact have been shown that there is no mysogyny (the heroine was portrayed as heroic), there was no homoeroticism (your point that the Spartans were portrayed as masculine is in some way "homoerotic" is foolish and unsubstantiated), and you generally resorted to the streetcorner psychology of the last century to try to say that masculinity is really latent homosexuality). It was silly in the 80s and 90s and it's no less silly today.

I've always thought that getting involved in some massive battle was really masculine. But when I realized that PTSD wasn't really all that great I reconsidered.

If a celebration of masculinity is a bunch of men killing each other over territory, that's a pretty sad statement on the human species. I'd call that a tragedy.

[ScottSA]

If a celebration of masculinity is a bunch of men killing each other over territory, that's a pretty sad statement on the human species. I'd call that a tragedy.

Of course you would. Unfortunately when the other nasty men are coming to take your territory, playing with barbies sometimes isn't the answer.

[Canadian Blue]

Of course you would. Unfortunately when the other nasty men are coming to take your territory, playing with barbies sometimes isn't the answer.

If they are more powerful, stand in front of them, it they shoot you or hit you, let them. WWJD, after all, IF we are a Christian [Jesus Christ's teachings] society, that's what we'd do. As well if a society is truly strong, it can find ways to resist any "nasty" men through non-violence.

I highly doubt muslims are going to mount an invasion anytime soon. I wouldn't even think about basing my perception's off a movie which glorifies war.

[ScottSA]

Of course you would. Unfortunately when the other nasty men are coming to take your territory, playing with barbies sometimes isn't the answer.

If they are more powerful, stand in front of them, it they shoot you or hit you, let them. WWJD, after all, IF we are a Christian [Jesus Christ's teachings] society, that's what we'd do. As well if a society is truly strong, it can find ways to resist any "nasty" men through non-violence.

I highly doubt muslims are going to mount an invasion anytime soon. I wouldn't even think about basing my perception's off a movie which glorifies war.

Well, you trot off and stand in front of the barbarians. I'm sure your moral suasion will send them home post haste. I guess you'd suggest that the Jews should have adopted that stance against Hitler, eh? Oh, wait. They did. Worked well for them, didn't it?

I think the Muslims got fed up with mounting invasions after Israel repeatedly handed their collective ass to them a few times...but are you suggesting they should have used non-violent means instead? Maybe they had a shortage of bathing suits that day, and didn't feel like being pushed into the sea...I dunno...

[Black Dog]

I tapped out because you've resorted to snide flaming. You have in no way shown how 300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity, and in fact have been shown that there is no mysogyny (the heroine was portrayed as heroic), there was no homoeroticism (your point that the Spartans were portrayed as masculine is in some way "homoerotic" is foolish and unsubstantiated), and you generally resorted to the streetcorner psychology of the last century to try to say that masculinity is really latent homosexuality). It was silly in the 80s and 90s and it's no less silly today.

Ah see, that time I wasn't calling 300 misogynistic. That was directed at you.

Foolish and unsubstantiated allegations? How about some evidence to support any of your assertions that such a version of masculinity was out of fashion or is making a comeback? Shit, the anti-feminist backlash reared its head ages ago in the '80s. Rush had his feminazis in the 90s. As much as you'd like to flatter yourself, you're not really breaking any new ground.

So, let's say 300, with its depictions of half-nude musclemen thrusting spears at each other is not drenched in homoeroticism, but is simply a celebration of masculinity. If that's the case, how sad. For it's a trite, ridiculous version of masculinity that you would appear to embrace as something meaningful and admirable. That a cliche-ridden, utterly brainless and banal film like this would be worthy of your praise and regarded as a hallmark of manliness says all that needs to be said about the concept itself.

ModAm

I'd rather feel like a man, then a female.

That doesn't sound like someone particularily secure in their masculinity. It seems masculinity is like the elusive "cool". Those who have it don't run worrying about it: those who don't think of little else.

[ScottSA]

I tapped out because you've resorted to snide flaming. You have in no way shown how 300 is anything other than a celebration of masculinity, and in fact have been shown that there is no mysogyny (the heroine was portrayed as heroic), there was no homoeroticism (your point that the Spartans were portrayed as masculine is in some way "homoerotic" is foolish and unsubstantiated), and you generally resorted to the streetcorner psychology of the last century to try to say that masculinity is really latent homosexuality). It was silly in the 80s and 90s and it's no less silly today.

Ah see, that time I wasn't calling 300 misogynistic. That was directed at you.

Foolish and unsubstantiated allegations? How about some evidence to support any of your assertions that such a version of masculinity was out of fashion or is making a comeback? Shit, the anti-feminist backlash reared its head ages ago in the '80s. Rush had his feminazis in the 90s. As much as you'd like to flatter yourself, you're not really breaking any new ground.

So, let's say 300, with its depictions of half-nude musclemen thrusting spears at each other is not drenched in homoeroticism, but is simply a celebration of masculinity. If that's the case, how sad. For it's a trite, ridiculous version of masculinity that you would appear to embrace as something meaningful and admirable. That a cliche-ridden, utterly brainless and banal film like this would be worthy of your praise and regarded as a hallmark of manliness says all that needs to be said about the concept itself.

I'm hardly breaking new ground. You just haven't caught up to reality yet. Being left behind the social curve is a common trait among those on the left though, so don't feel alone. Simpering pseudo-intellectualism usually tends to shield itself from reality for a decade or two after the rest of mainstream society has moved on...you know...like those buttugly old girls still sitting around in covens nattering about how all men want to rape them?

Incidently, the "backlash" you're talking about was a propaganda ploy by Susan Faludi to describe the re-emergence of common sense in juxtaposition to the standpoint feminism of the day. It turned out to be a backfire on her part, though, since it outlined all the reasons there SHOULD have been a backlash.

It may sadden you, but men are becoming men again, and that can only be a good thing.

[Black Dog]

I'm hardly breaking new ground.

That's for damn sure.

You just haven't caught up to reality yet. Being left behind the social curve is a common trait among those on the left though, so don't feel alone. Simpering pseudo-intellectualism usually tends to shield itself from reality for a decade or two after the rest of mainstream society has moved on...you know...like those buttugly old girls still sitting around in covens nattering about how all men want to rape them?

Wow, ugly man-hatin' feminists, namby pamby socialists...damn, boy, you really leave no cliche unturned. But hey, you think like a caricature, so it stands to reason you would see everyone else as one.

Incidently, the "backlash" you're talking about was a propaganda ploy by Susan Faludi to describe the re-emergence of common sense in juxtaposition to the standpoint feminism of the day. It turned out to be a backfire on her part, though, since it outlined all the reasons there SHOULD have been a backlash.

So it was a propganda ploy outlining an existing phenomenon that helped spur that phenomenon? Uh. Huh.

It may sadden you, but men are becoming men again, and that can only be a good thing.

What a silly notion. What were they before? Elephants? Potted plants? Honestly, your insecurity is overpowering.

[Catchme]

but men are becoming men again,

How are men becoming men again? And how did they stop being men?

[ScottSA]

but men are becoming men again,

How are men becoming men again? And how did they stop being men?

I guess you'd have to read the thread in order to get that. Unless you already have and you're trying to cleverly embroil me in an exchange of repartee...in which case, perhaps I'll qualify it as the "ideal" of malehood, which took a bit of a feminized holiday for a couple decades.

[Canadian Blue]

Well, you trot off and stand in front of the barbarians. I'm sure your moral suasion will send them home post haste. I guess you'd suggest that the Jews should have adopted that stance against Hitler, eh? Oh, wait. They did. Worked well for them, didn't it?

Even when they did resist, they were often crushed. They didn't adopt non-violence, that was adopting pacifism, many were simply fighting to survive. If they violently resisted in large number's that may have even given more fuel for the nazis. They could have become just like the Cathars. Their have been numerous cases of people who were close to being wiped out, however they instead chose non-violence and in fact ended up winning.

In my own opinion, it takes greater courage to resist something evil, yet refuse to injure or kill your enemy in order to bring about your goal.

I'm hardly breaking new ground. You just haven't caught up to reality yet. Being left behind the social curve is a common trait among those on the left though, so don't feel alone.

No, we have to show our masculinity by killing off small animal's. I've always found the guys that try to act the most masculine are usually the weakest in moral courage. I find this so called masculinity is such a cliche that their really is no point to debating it. If the measure of a man is his willingness to use violence excessively then I guess I'm a feminist. I always thought that an individual would be judged based on things like charity, moral courage, and compassion.

Simpering pseudo-intellectualism usually tends to shield itself from reality for a decade or two after the rest of mainstream society has moved on

What pseudo-intellectualism? You mean those factonistas who base all of their arguments on what people that are experts in the field say.

Incidently, the "backlash" you're talking about was a propaganda ploy by Susan Faludi to describe the re-emergence of common sense in juxtaposition to the standpoint feminism of the day. It turned out to be a backfire on her part, though, since it outlined all the reasons there SHOULD have been a backlash.

I don't feel threatened by Susan Faludi. On the other hand I can see why you feel threatened.

It may sadden you, but men are becoming men again, and that can only be a good thing.

Which mean's what exactly?

What does it mean to be a man? To even define a man is hard, as it is with a woman, because unfortunately we are all individual's, and we are all unique.

I guess you'd have to read the thread in order to get that. Unless you already have and you're trying to cleverly embroil me in an exchange of repartee...in which case, perhaps I'll qualify it as the "ideal" of malehood, which took a bit of a feminized holiday for a couple decades.

What does it mean to be a man exactly. If it mean's wearing a leather speedo, and killing off a bunch of people then no thanks.

[ScottSA]

Must you always use 10,000 words to say what you could have said in 10? Read the stuff you wrote. Its idiotic...truly it is. You sit back in your armchair and turgidly pontificate about the great moral courage it took 12 million people to be herded into concentration camps without fighting back. I dare you to show "great moral courage" and turn yourself into a middle eastern den of pious Muslims so that they can affirm your great moral friggin' courage by sawing your head off with a paring knife. Me? I'll fight like a great moral coward, but I'm sure you'll end up feeling superior.

[Canadian Blue]

How are men becoming men again? And how did they stop being men?

Because Justin Timberlake seems to have gotten alot "cooler".