Topaz Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 I like Dion, I think he's loves Canada but the world have born leaders and Dion is not a born leader. The Liberal screwed this and should have pick someone else. Dion main problem is his english and being able to communicate with Canadians. Who do you think the Liberals should have picked?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Desertion in the ranks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted March 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 I like Dion, I think he's loves Canada but the world have born leaders and Dion is not a born leader. The Liberal screwed this and should have pick someone else. Dion main problem is his english and being able to communicate with Canadians. Who do you think the Liberals should have picked?? I don't see as desserting, see it as knowing when to step down if it means your party is better off with a person who can do a better job as leader. How many people could do this?? Not many and Dion may not fit the bill as a leader but he loves his country and will do anything to help his country and his party. I respect a person more to know when its time to leave. Harper, on the other hand wouldn't even think of this, he's too much as Bush! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 I like Dion, I think he's loves Canada but the world have born leaders and Dion is not a born leader. The Liberal screwed this and should have pick someone else. Dion main problem is his english and being able to communicate with Canadians. Who do you think the Liberals should have picked?? Dion's English is better than Harper's French. Should the CPC have picked another leader? Obviously, yes. Who do you think they should have picked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Dion's English is better than Harper's French. Should the CPC have picked another leader? Obviously, yes. Who do you think they should have picked? Is this true? I don't speak French, but I was under the impression the Stephen Harpers French was very good. As for Dion, I watched him ask a question, and his timing in English was completely off. It was a long question and by the time he was done, I couldn't figure out just what he was trying to point out. Then Stephen Harper gave a textbook answer. But I have to wonder, if you can't ask the question well in English, and it is important, then say it in French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Is this true? I don't speak French, but I was under the impression the Stephen Harpers French was very good. As for Dion, I watched him ask a question, and his timing in English was completely off. It was a long question and by the time he was done, I couldn't figure out just what he was trying to point out.Then Stephen Harper gave a textbook answer. But I have to wonder, if you can't ask the question well in English, and it is important, then say it in French. August once wisely said a French person speaking English will always sound better than an English person speaking French. Harper doesn't sound good, but he's competent. Dion bumbles alot in English... I don't know if one can say one is outright better than the other, they both have their strengths. But do remember that French only speakers are a small chunk of the population, however over represented they are in the big scheme of things. If Dion can't speak English efficently, then he's got much bigger problems than Harper. Really though, I don't think language is the issue. Dion is a completely incompetent leader and the Liberal party has never seen do mixed up as it is now. What do they stand for? In a typically Liberal fashion, they stole the 5 pillars approach from the CPC and made it the 3 pillars approach of the Liberals. Unfortunately, they are vague, economic prosperity, social development and environmental sustainability. Whoop-de-do. I think alot of people are beginning to say, 'well, they've said this for 13 years and we never really got much, what's different now.' Especially with old Quebec lieutenant Dion in power. The Liberals have been unwilling to change from before, and that's not going to get them even a minority government. They are unwilling to commit to any issue, carbon tax, terrorist legislation, whatever. If the Liberal strategists are smart, they're going to setup Dion for a massive fall in this election, then send him packing so someone competent can take over. The Liberals should have realised putting a shy reserved professor into the Opposition leader spot wasn't going to work. If you've ever noticed in QP, Iggy asks the real questions. Dion just reads his English script, then does his follow up in French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Is this true? I don't speak French, but I was under the impression the Stephen Harpers French was very good. Harper's French is not very good by any stretch of the imagination. It's very good when he is reading his statements (and always sticks to his script). It has improved significantly from a few years ago but it is still at the same level (if not worse) as Dion's English. Neither of the two speak both official languages fluently, I don't see why only Dion has to be criticized for it. It was never an issue for Harper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 It was never an issue for Harper. Are you kidding me? The 2004 election was chaulk full of media criticisms of Harper's French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 The Liberals should have realised putting a shy reserved professor into the Opposition leader spot wasn't going to work. And Harper was an excellent choice - a shy backroom dealer with almost no experience in the real world (outside of politics that is) and completely devoid of any charisma. Somehow the Liberals tripped and he made it to the PMs chair (which he believes is a throne). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 The Liberals should have realised putting a shy reserved professor into the Opposition leader spot wasn't going to work. And Harper was an excellent choice - a shy backroom dealer with almost no experience in the real world (outside of politics that is) and completely devoid of any charisma. Somehow the Liberals tripped and he made it to the PMs chair (which he believes is a throne). Harper was and still is a piss poor choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 It was never an issue for Harper. Are you kidding me? The 2004 election was chaulk full of media criticisms of Harper's French. Was it? I guess I tend to ignore things I find unimportant. What about the 2006 election? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Was it? I guess I tend to ignore things I find unimportant. What about the 2006 election? Wasn't as big an issue when the media realised most people think like you and I on the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Funny how effective those attack adds were. The Liberals doing a little better in the polls, elect Dion and get another boost. Then BAMMO, negative adds, and some weak performances in QP and Dion needs to be replaced. It was the adds, and the Liberals inability to counter them. Dion will be toast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Anthony Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 I like Dion, I think he's loves Canada but the world have born leaders and Dion is not a born leader.Leader of what? Dirait-on, plutôt, que le monde Libéral a donné naissance à un chef propre à soit et non pas à un chef propre au Canada? I love this thread: Stéphane Dion = Jean Chrétien? -- Same Old Sponsorship? Same old Liberals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who's Doing What? Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Well from the comments he has made since the leadership convention the Liberals are lucky they didn't select Iggy. As a hockey fan I wanted to see Dryden get in. He may have helped the Quebec vote more than Dion. Basically as bad as some perceive Dion to be he may well be the best of a bad lot. I can't wait to see the dust fly when Stronach gets in as leader when Dion goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Further to Geoffrey's reply, the Liberals have another big problem - probably the biggest of them all. Chantal Hebert has come out with a book called "French Kiss - Stephen Harper's Blind Date with Quebec". She was on with Peter Mansbridge last night discussing the book. I only caught a few minutes of it but one point she made was "Quebec has no appetite for the Liberal vision of Canada". She's referring to the heavy handed Centrist government where Liberals continued to keep their fingers in many areas of Provincial juristiction, to the frustration of several provinces. This "Liberal vision" is despised in both Quebec and Alberta but increasingly so in Ontario and BC as well. Newfoundland/Labrador is not that far behind. All of these except Ontario have been starting to discuss the viability of separation to some degree or another. Canadian Unity needs the Conservative vision of respect for Provincial juristiction and giving them the freedom to experiment with the delivery of Healthcare, Education and if they so choose, Daycare, among others. Canada has a tremendous advantage in having 10 provinces with mature and effective governments. As each province tries new approaches, others can learn - we can jointly develop "best practices". Not everything that works in BC will work in Nova Scotia - there is no "one size fits all" as the Liberals try to do. Gilles Duceppe called this paternal approach "Father Knows Best". Liberals are clinging to a system that enabled them to bribe provinces and voters with our tax money but that system has collapsed under the weight of Gomery and the separatist aspirations of the provinces mentioned above. It will take several years, a new vision and strong leadership to turn the party around - none of which are appearing on the horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 What about Kennedy? IMO the Liberal party needs a complete overhaul and needs to be more accomodating to rural Canada. Doing that they will get their majorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 I like Dion, I think he's loves Canada but the world have born leaders and Dion is not a born leader.Leader of what? Dirait-on, plutôt, que le monde Libéral a donné naissance à un chef propre à soit et non pas à un chef propre au Canada? Dion est ne propre pas, dans le parti Liberal ou dans Canada. Je pense que les Canadiens savent cela, c'est reflete dans les sondages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Anthony Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Dion est ne propre pas, dans le parti Liberal ouMais, s'est-il rendu à la tête du parti par accident ou par hasard?!? Il me semble que non. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Mais, s'est-il rendu à la tête du parti par accident ou par hasard?!? Il me semble que non. Il a gagne parce que les Liberaux detestent de nouveaux gens dans le parti. C'est hors de la zone de confort. Ignatieff est extreme par les normes Liberales sur la politique etrangere. Rae est les NDP. Kennedy peut ne parler pas francais. Il n'y avait pas d'autre choix. Aucun hasard. Aucun accident. Les vieux Liberaux protegeant leurs interets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueblood Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Mais, s'est-il rendu à la tête du parti par accident ou par hasard?!? Il me semble que non. Il a gagne parce que les Liberaux detestent de nouveaux gens dans le parti. C'est hors de la zone de confort. Ignatieff est extreme par les normes Liberales sur la politique etrangere. Rae est les NDP. Kennedy peut ne parler pas francais. Il n'y avait pas d'autre choix. Aucun hasard. Aucun accident. Les vieux Liberaux protegeant leurs interets. I thought Kennedy wasn't too bad in french, he can learn like Harper did. The thing is though if the bloc keeps winning seats there, wouldn't it be in the best interests of the Liberals to cater a bit to Western voters to get some seats, with a united right party it's now very hard to gain a majority without the west. Harper threw the Easterners a bone, the Libs can throw the west one. IMO Kennedy is the best choice, new face, new ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturn Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Chantal Hebert has come out with a book called "French Kiss - Stephen Harper's Blind Date with Quebec". She was on with Peter Mansbridge last night discussing the book. Chantal is a separatist and she can't help but spew anti-federalist (which in Quebec means anti-Liberal) propaganda. She likes the fact that Harper is willing to bend over and cater to Quebec and the separatists. I don't need to read her book to know what it says. So what was your point in bringing it up? Separatists like Harper, so Dion sucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Further to Geoffrey's reply, the Liberals have another big problem - probably the biggest of them all. Chantal Hebert has come out with a book called "French Kiss - Stephen Harper's Blind Date with Quebec". She was on with Peter Mansbridge last night discussing the book. I only caught a few minutes of it but one point she made was "Quebec has no appetite for the Liberal vision of Canada". Wow, Quebecers want to separate. Who'd have thunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Chantal Hebert has come out with a book called "French Kiss - Stephen Harper's Blind Date with Quebec". She was on with Peter Mansbridge last night discussing the book. Chantal is a separatist and she can't help but spew anti-federalist (which in Quebec means anti-Liberal) propaganda. She likes the fact that Harper is willing to bend over and cater to Quebec and the separatists. I don't need to read her book to know what it says. So what was your point in bringing it up? Separatists like Harper, so Dion sucks? If you read all of what I wrote, you'd understand that much of what Quebec wants is very similar to other provinces. Alberta, BC, and Newfoundland have all been pushed to consider separation because of the Liberal's approach to dealing with the provinces. Ontario's none too happy either. That was the point of bringing it up. You should read Harper's biography by William Johnson - you'll understand that Harper's vision of Canada is not bending over to the provinces - it's having strong provinces in a strong, united Canada. I highly recommend the book - Harper refused to be interviewed for it, so it's a pretty unbiased piece of work by a guy who has worked mostly for the Globe and Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 Dion will be toast. We can only hope. Kennedy has no experience, unless running the food bank counts. Ken Dryden.....man, we wouldnt know what is going on, he would have us all asleep in minutes. Iggy, seems a pompous ass doesnt he? (I know least about him) Dion...Celine would have been a better choice. She can talk AND sing in both languages.Her english is good but I have been asking the Americans to make her a citizen for years, so no go there So...I guess Kennedy. Wow, rep by deleting all the other F-wads.....pardon the language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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