Two Non-Multi-Cult Stories, or Mixing it Up and Making It

[Catchme]

They are doing it on their own dollar, there is still so much outstanding debt owed to them it is ridiculous.

They are not saying they want to live like an ancient person. Pursuing your own cultual heritage has absolutely nothing to do with living like an ancient person.

It seems you want to have double standards geoffery one for the rest of those pursuing their and living in their cultural heritage, while not wanting FN's too.

I suppose what many are asking is why the FN leadership has not changed the poverty and conditions of FN. Note I said FN leadership. The amout of money already spent to help FN has done nothing to change their living conditions. You mention all the other groups who have done it on their own dollar, why can the FN not do it. Where is the leadership to pull them from their plight?

Hello, many are doing it on their OWN dollar, and I gave you plenty examples of just how successfull they are becoming now that they are able to control their own lives. Did you NOT read any and follow the links?

If you are going to express ill founded opinions why not try to find out if you are correct in your erroneous presumptions. There is information everywhere on line, why bother taking some one else's word for any thing? Research find out truths.

[leonardcohen]

The only way to bring these folks up is to cut the special treatment, all that crap. When all Canadians, regardless of race, have an equal amount of rights and freedoms, then we'll be progressing here. Coddling minorities will only lead to their further reliance on the state (and therefore they become more engrained in block voting with political parties).

Exactly,the sooner potential immigrants to Canada realize that the gravy train is not going to be there when they cross our border, the less likely we will have moochers and freeloaders coming to our country and putting additional strains on our social safety net.

Those that come will be the ones who realize that they will have to work to make a life for themselves will be the ones we want,to make a positive contribution to society.

Lest anybody think me heartless, i have no objection to helping recent immigrants make the transition to Canada easier, finding housing,educational training and such, but i would put a moratorium on any type of financial aid after a certain amount of time,in effect saying,if you can't stand on your feet,you're out of here.

One more thing ,be convicted of a felony...you're out of here.

[Drea]

while I agree with you lenard, new immigrants for the most part, are not all welfare cases. Refugees perhaps, but you'd have to take that one up with the UN, not the Canadian govt. The UN sets the mandate for treatment of refugees...

I live in a small city of about 100,000.

ALL of our welfare cases (I used to work as a teacher assistant helping women get off welfare) are either white or native.

More whites that natives...

Not one single "East" Indian, Korean, Jamiacan or Vietnamese woman was in the program.

Not one.

Ever.

Of course there were immigrants at the school -- but not on the govt's dime. (the women I taught were all forced to taking retraining to get off welfare and their schooling was paid by the govt).

BTW, ALL of the immigrants were taking courses in the health field, none in business administration or travel and tourism...

[Canuck E Stan]

(the women I taught were all forced to taking retraining to get off welfare and their schooling was paid by the govt).

Did it get them off welfare?

[jbg]

(the women I taught were all forced to taking retraining to get off welfare and their schooling was paid by the govt).

Did it get them off welfare?

Of course. Those programs are fan-f****g-tastic.

[madmax]

I refuse to accept the dichotomy or argument of "Melting Pot" versus "Multi-culturalism" because I do not believe either of them truly exist as distinct concepts. We have permitted ourselves to be fooled by the dramatic stories portrayed by actors on an international stage.

Saying "we have multi-culturalism" and "they have a melting pot" is more vacuous than identifying the differences in our democratic systems or our tax policies.

I agree.

[madmax]

I thought this thread was about multicult, not primarily about FN issues.

I believe you threw them into the mix earlier. That said, your initial post had nothing to do with the concept of the melting pot. May as well provide an example of yourself for it would be more accurate then the stories you provided.

[jbg]

I thought this thread was about multicult, not primarily about FN issues.

I believe you threw them into the mix earlier. That said, your initial post had nothing to do with the concept of the melting pot. May as well provide an example of yourself for it would be more accurate then the stories you provided.

Yeah. You have a point. Sorry.

As far as your earlier comment, however, it is not vacuous to demonstrate the advantages of very high incentives to integration, as opposed to remaining separate.

[RB]

Only in America one can dream the American dream, the melting pot creates an ideal sense of belonging and a patriotic American. We would like to think (rephrasing, we would like to promote) that culture and race do not intersect, is color blind and perpetuate no inequalities. Here is the starting point folks, anyone can make -- case in point, look are the examples at the top of the discussion.

In Canada we encourage multiculturalism and separate people along invisible racial and cultural divides, even have a multicultural law laid out for this. I mean, where are we integrating folks if we allow them settle into various communities and practice culture, and law from elsewhere? Result, a visible minority born in Canada is still not Canadian. In fact, there are studies out to show that non-whites born in Canada seem to be earning less, than the newly arrived immigrants.

Immigrant businesses are still small business, franchises, that serve communities and generally not mainstream, they have not been able to do well in accumulation of wealth

[Catchme]

I thought this thread was about multicult, not primarily about FN issues.

I believe you threw them into the mix earlier. That said, your initial post had nothing to do with the concept of the melting pot. May as well provide an example of yourself for it would be more accurate then the stories you provided.

Yeah. You have a point. Sorry.

As far as your earlier comment, however, it is not vacuous to demonstrate the advantages of very high incentives to integration, as opposed to remaining separate.

JBG you are also a good example of remaining separate, if you are a practicing Jew, and I New York has an Eruv or so. So how is that melting pot and integration?

[jbg]

Only in America one can dream the American dream, the melting pot creates an ideal sense of belonging and a patriotic American.

That is the goal we strive for. Perfection has not arrived.

JBG you are also a good example of remaining separate, if you are a practicing Jew, and I New York has an Eruv or so. So how is that melting pot and integration?

My denominatin of Judaism does not use the "Eruv" system. Also, for all but Chasids (a small part of the Jewish community) we speak fluent English and particiipate fully in the life of the nation.

[Drea]

(the women I taught were all forced to taking retraining to get off welfare and their schooling was paid by the govt).

Did it get them off welfare?

Of course. Those programs are fan-f****g-tastic.

Some of them Canuck. Of course there are always those that, no matter what you do for them, won't make it.

jbg, it was a very basic program to get women working who had perhaps never worked before. Give them a skillset to be able to handle an interview, appropriate dress for work, how to answer the phone, open email, etc.

Out tentant was one of them. OMG now she is pregnant again. Her third child on her own. Geeeez...

[mcqueen625]

Wow, what a great story of assimulation working, that one example who is most likely a decendant of slaves, now has freedom. Freedom to work 1 and half jobs in order to survive. Now that's assimulation for ya heh?!

Plus, there is the fact that your stories have absolutely nothing to do with assimulation vs multi-culturalism. I can give you 10's of thousands of examples of how actually succcesssful multiculturalism is in Canada, that by far out strip the successes in your little stories.

The truth is that Multiculturalism has been a failure whereever it has been attempted. Even France is now admitting that this failed attempt at social engineering has been a total failure, which is why they and other EU countries are having minority Muslims demanding that laws be changed to suit their faith, just as they tried in Ontario to do the same. The scary part is that McGinty initially saw nothing wrong with allowing Sharia Laws so that Muslims could deal with Muslins outside the justice system we all are expected to live under. He saw no problem until he started receiving flack from women's groups all over the world, especially from quarters where Sharia Law already exists and treats women with utter disrespect and takes away any equality they may have under existing laws in Canada. It was only then that he backed off, and decided that Sharia Law was not a good idea for Ontario. His initial acceptance is no surprise since he is a Liberal and their idea of what Canada should look like differs from most Candians in that most believe that the melting pot would result in a much better society because it would allow Canada do actually develop it's own culture.

By allowing our bleeding-hearty politicians to continue down this road to disharmony called multiculturalism, we are asking for everything that we get. You cannot allow segregation and expect harmony at the end of the day, and that is what multiculturalism bascically is, segregation based on many things. Our's in Canada started with bilingualism and even that has failed, yet we followed these same fools down the road to failed multiculturalism. My Webpage

[jbg]

Out tentant was one of them. OMG now she is pregnant again. Her third child on her own. Geeeez...

Exactly the problem. But the point of my post was that these programs are fantastic, almost divine.

[Catchme]

Only in America one can dream the American dream, the melting pot creates an ideal sense of belonging and a patriotic American.

That is the goal we strive for. Perfection has not arrived.

JBG you are also a good example of remaining separate, if you are a practicing Jew, and I New York has an Eruv or so. So how is that melting pot and integration?

My denominatin of Judaism does not use the "Eruv" system. Also, for all but Chasids (a small part of the Jewish community) we speak fluent English and particiipate fully in the life of the nation.

I would suggest that all immigrants participate fully in as much as Jewish persons do, as well. Most immigrants, I know, also speak fluent English and have came across very few who do not, and those are usually just recent immigrants.

That would be your denomination, a good many exist outside of that demographic or Eruv's would not be found all across Canada and the USA.

[jbg]

I would suggest that all immigrants participate fully in _____________ (????) as much as Jewish persons do, as well. Most immigrants, I know, also speak fluent English and have came across very few who do not, and those are usually just recent immigrants.

Your missing a thought here. But I do here that Canada has not been enforcing, with many recent immigrants, the rule that they speak one or both of Canada's official languages fluently.

That would be your denomination, a good many exist outside of that demographic or Eruv's would not be found all across Canada and the USA.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Are you saying that most Jews in Canada and the USA live within Eruvs and refrain from carrying objects outside of them on Shabbat (the function of an eruv is to provide a boundary within which highly orthodox Jews may carry objects during Shabbat without violating the rules keeping Shabbat holy, and most Jews do not honor those rules).

[jbg]

That would be your denomination, a good many exist outside of that demographic or Eruv's would not be found all across Canada and the USA.

Those people are actually a small minority of Jews, such as the ones described below.

Apparently, for some "religious" Jews it isn't enough to be Orthodox. A member of the Chasidic village of New Square, New York decided to worship away from the temple dicated by the "Grand Rebbi". For his pains, they tried to burn him alive.

Simply despicable. Rats on two legs.

Link to story, excerpts below:

CBS/WCBS/AP)

Orthodox Jew burned in arson attempt, family blames religious feud in N.Y. community

NEW SQUARE, N.Y. - An Orthodox Jewish father of four was severely burned after a religious feud led to an arson attempt, according to the victim's family.

Police say Aron Rottenberg, 43, fought off a man armed with an incendiary device Sunday and ended up hospitalized with third-degree burns covering 50 percent of his body. The attacker was carrying a rag soaked with flammable liquid behind the Rottenberg family home in New Square, N.Y., an all-Hasidic Jewish village, police told the Journal News.

***********************

Rottenberg's family says they had been targeted before because Rottenberg worshipped in his own way, apart from the main synagogue used by the community's grand rabbi. Six months ago, car windows were smashed; earlier this month, the windows of the house were busted in, reports WCBS.

"Doing your own thing, that is not something they can take," said Rottenberg's son-in-law, Moshe Elbaum. "They don't like that, because it's showing people can do what they want to do."

As was pointed out in an excellent Ottawa Citizens piece (link, excerpts below) this is itself intolerable.

Even though people have differing ideas of what is meant by peace, it is reasonably safe to say peace is a universal desire. For some, it is a sincere desire for peace and harmony. For others, it is peace on their terms only. It is safe to say faith leaders have not acquitted themselves well on the matter of peace. Faith leaders past and present have actually encouraged more of a "peace on our terms" posture, such as "embrace our faith and we will not kill you."

Leaders within any faith must be renounced for such a policy. And the true people of faith within those communities must be actively involved in calling their "leaders" on this. Faith and peace leave little room for passivity. If peace is important, it needs to be actively and vigorously pursued, even if in the process there are some distinctly unpeaceful exchanges.

Read more:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/people+faith+good+examples+peace/4858060/story.html#ixzz1NzhwIetD

[Dissenter]

I refuse to accept the dichotomy or argument of "Melting Pot" versus "Multi-culturalism" because I do not believe either of them truly exist as distinct concepts. We have permitted ourselves to be fooled by the dramatic stories portrayed by actors on an international stage.

Saying "we have multi-culturalism" and "they have a melting pot" is more vacuous than identifying the differences in our democratic systems or our tax policies.

Genocide is: the deliberate destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious or national group.

It is often associated with killing, but that's a means not the objective. The objective is to eliminate or reduce the population of a specific group of people.

All of this mass immigration and forced integration is for predominantly white countries and ONLY predominantly white countries.

It is projected that the US will have a white minority around 2042, Canada around the same time, and the UK by 2066.

It is demanded that Marin County California increase the non-white population because it's too white, but according to the U.S. Census Bureau, Detroit is 81.6% black, yet it's not demanded that Detroit become more diverse. Detroit is already diverse because diversity is just code for white population reduction.

They can call it whatever they like, but I call it what it is: genocide.

[Evening Star]

I'm sorry, jbg, but if I post a couple anecdotes about second-generation Asian-Canadians who are doing well for themselves and speak unaccented English, will that prove that Canadian multiculturalism has been the more successful approach? Because I can do that, if you like.

--

Also, it was the CPC who really benefited from the much-publicized 'ethnic strategy' in the last election, remember?

Edited July 17, 2011 by Evening Star

[Evening Star]

OK, ha, I just noticed the OP is from four years ago. I'm guessing your current view is more nuanced.

[jbg]

OK, ha, I just noticed the OP is from four years ago. I'm guessing your current view is more nuanced.

My current view is that whichever country or approach you choose,immigrants should enthusiastically participate in the new country, not bring the worst aspects of the old country to the new one.

[Wild Bill]

My current view is that whichever country or approach you choose,immigrants should enthusiastically participate in the new country, not bring the worst aspects of the old country to the new one.

OFFICIAL Multi-cult was a Liberal invention to appeal to immigrants by making them believe they didn't have to spend any effort in assimilating, thus likely getting a good portion of them to vote Liberal.

In practice, they still had to assimilate a fair bit anyway, simply because Canada was not going to change for them. Now, the first generation is finding it very hard to keep their kids from abandoning their first country culture. To their kids, that culture is from a land far away. Their home is where they live every day, namely Canada.

[eyeball]

My current view is that whichever country or approach you choose,immigrants should enthusiastically participate in the new country, not bring the worst aspects of the old country to the new one.

Good idea. Maybe the Eurotrash amongst us that can't give up the old tradition of trying to dominate the planet could start following it's own advice.

What part of do unto others yadda yadda didn't sink in anyway?

[jbg]

What part of do unto others yadda yadda didn't sink in anyway?

I have a question. How multi-culturally tolerant is Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan and the like? Maybe they should be asked "(w)hat part of do unto others yadda yadda didn't sink in anyway?"

[Smallc]

Why does it matter what they do? We're better than they are.