NDP proposes Federal Minimum Wage - $10.00

[B. Max]

If Happy Jack could, he would give everybody $20 an hour, but what he forgets is business will only tack this onto the goods and services it sells.

It's just political show boating. Jacks proposal would only apply to federally regulated employees who most likely already make a lot more than 10 dollars an hour. Hell, I was making more than ten bucks an hour back in the seventies.

[marcinmoka]

Small and large business perhpas - farms - not likely. They are commodity based and therefore price takers not price setters.

Borg

Touche. I structured my sentance wrong. I apologize.

[Catchme]

Facts:

A businesses single most important asset is its employees, whether the it is a 1 employee place or a 50 employee place or more.

Even if the owner and single employee of the business, it is it's most important asset.

Many business owners fail to realize this.

Many business owners fail to see that it is the employees who make the business and the the ensuing profits, or lack thereof.

Because many business owners fail to see the worth of their employees and pay accordingly, rules and regulations have been implimented to protect the employees, and in actual fact the business owner as well.

[Riverwind]

Many business owners fail to see that it is the employees who make the business and the the ensuing profits, or lack thereof.

Business owners who do not pay employees what they are worth will not stay in business very long.

[Catchme]

Many business owners fail to see that it is the employees who make the business and the the ensuing profits, or lack thereof.

Business owners who do not pay employees what they are worth will not stay in business very long.

Exactly my point, and the very vast majority fail to see this truth, that is why min wage laws protect both workers and businesses

[blueblood]

Many business owners fail to see that it is the employees who make the business and the the ensuing profits, or lack thereof.

Business owners who do not pay employees what they are worth will not stay in business very long.

Exactly my point, and the very vast majority fail to see this truth, that is why min wage laws protect both workers and businesses

Business owners who pay their employees more than they are worth will not stay in business for too long either.

[Catchme]

illogical fallacy.

[Riverwind]

illogical fallacy.

Wrong. Each employee contributes to the revenue for a business. If the cost of the employees exceeds the revenue contributed by its employees then the business goes under. The government is in no position to judge the true worth of every employee to every business. My belief is that the employees that are worth more than minimum wage are already getting paid more than minimum wage so increasing the minimum wage at this point would only force businesses to pay employees more than they are worth to the business.

[madmax]

Because people like Jack Layton think business profits are evil and that any business that makes profit is not paying enough to its workers.

That is neither here nor there with regards to the minimum wage.

[madmax]

Business owners who pay their employees more than they are worth will not stay in business for too long either.

We are talking about minimum wages.

[blueblood]

Business owners who pay their employees more than they are worth will not stay in business for too long either.

We are talking about minimum wages.

When the minimum wage is in fact more than the employee is worth there is going to be problems. Riverwind sums it up nice.

[madmax]

My belief is that the employees that are worth more than minimum wage are already getting paid more than minimum wage so increasing the minimum wage at this point would only force businesses to pay employees more than they are worth to the business.

If the minimum wage was removed wages would fall and people still would not be able buy food and pay the rent. Your "belief" suggests that increasing the minimum wage would force business to pay employees more than they are worth. You do know that this has been happening since 1918?

[madmax]

Business owners who pay their employees more than they are worth will not stay in business for too long either.

Your comments intrigued me to look around a bit at some of the larger minimum wage employers.

Chicago (30 July 2006) - The City of Chicago has passed the first "living wage law" in the United States, forcing mega-retailers such as Wal-Mart, Home Depot and Target to pay workers a minimum wage of $9.25 an hour (up from the current rate of $6.25).

The new law applies only to stores with at least 90,000 square feet of space and $1 billion (US) in annual sales across the company.

If such a law existed in Canada, it would raise the minimum wage for such wealthy chains to $10.50 an hour in Canadian dollars

[madmax]

When the minimum wage is in fact more than the employee is worth there is going to be problems.

Minimum wages have been around for close to 100 years.

[blueblood]

I'd like to agree with you, the problem is inflation. If all those people have money, it won't be worth anything, they'll all be buying things. With a huge demand for things, the retailers will up the price to net more dollars. We all end up suffering then. With things costing more, 10 bucks an hour won't be worth anything anymore. Therein lies the problem. They'll still be poor.

[Riverwind]

When the minimum wage is in fact more than the employee is worth there is going to be problems.

Minimum wages have been around for close to 100 years.

We did not have to deal with competition from cheap labour overseas 100 years ago. The world has a surplus of unskilled labour. Overpaying unskilled labour in Canada simply undermines the competitiveness of the businesses employing skilled labour that competes internationally.

[madmax]

I'd like to agree with you, the problem is inflation..... Therein lies the problem. They'll still be poor.

Raising the minimum wage isn't designed to make anyone rich or wealthy. Yes, they will still be poor. Inflation will also be around. Inflation will occur regardless of whether the minimum wage remains stagnate.

[myata]

Minimum wage can only be what it means - i.e. the "minimum" wage that is being paid in the economy. The law simply acknowledges economic reality and protects it against abuse (e.g. attempt to achieve competitive advantage by paying lower wages) and regress. No government in its right mind would try to set the minimum wage above the level at which it's settled in the economy. It would be useless waste of resources. The economy would simply readjust itself via inflation and the minimum wage will cost (in the real terms of goods and services) exact same amount as before such reform.

[madmax]

We did not have to deal with competition from cheap labour overseas 100 years ago.

Sir John A MacDonald, create the National Policy tariffs and all, regardless of Liberal Opposition.

The world has a surplus of unskilled labour.

The world is not going to be selling smokes in a Macs Milk in White Horse. The World is not going to be making hamburgers up the road at McDonalds. But there is lots of people in the world whom will work for food and create for an export commodity on behalf of Nike or Walmart.

Overpaying unskilled labour in Canada simply undermines the competitiveness of the businesses employing skilled labour that compete internationally.

You assume that the market operates on level playing fields.. they don't And China doesn't Including the rate of exchange on their money.

Why are you focusing on Unskilled Labour?

“It was interesting to note just how vastly different their labor rates are from those of American gear companies. For a line worker, the annual wage is $2,500 (USD), while engineers and supervisors earn around $5,000 (USD) per year. Based on this, it’s easy to see why it’s so difficult to compete head to head with Chinese manufacturers

Or the conclusion of a CEO

William R. Jones, CEO Solar Atmospheres Inc.Souderton, Pa

Recently a meeting was held in Meadville, Pa. concerning this off shore threat to the NorthAmerican metal working economy and the USA economy in general. Meadville is one of thecenters for metal working in the tooling industry, molds, dies, etc. The industry is off over 60% dueto the current recession. Machine Tool companies are hurting big time. Over 140 people attendedthis conference in a tight nit community, all are hurting from the economic hit over the last threeyears. A high point statement was the massive balance of payment debt the USA is generatingfrom that country alone. Wage rates in China are quoted at $0.40 per hour plus supplied threemeals a day plus room and board. My figure works out to be less than $1.00 USA per hour. Thiswage rate is equal to our wages at the turn of the 20th century. Our health care insurance benefitsfor a family plan cost Solar nearly $4.00 per hour. The prediction was made by the year 2020,manufacturing will disappear as we know it here in the USA. All very sobering for those of us..

So are we to work for .40 cents per hour? Are Engineers and Supervisers in Canada prepared to work for .80cents per hour?

Maybe we didn't have to compete with a global economy 100 years ago, but clearly the wages of China today are quite comfortable with that time period

[Riverwind]

The world is not going to be selling smokes in a Macs Milk in White Horse. The World is not going to be making hamburgers up the road at McDonalds.

That is the problem. The low skilled local service sector jobs are protected by trade barriers (in this case immigration controls). This means the cost of these services is artificially high as it is. Increasing the minimum wage simply increases the cost of living and undermines the companies which are competing globally.

Why are you focusing on Unskilled Labour?

Because the wage rates for skilled labour are set by the market place. The wage rates for skilled jobs in north america are going down or are at least stagnent because skilled workers overseas can do the same job for less. Why should people who must accept wage cuts due to international competition subsidize those who are protected by trade barriers?

So are we to work for .40 cents per hour? Are Engineers and Supervisers in Canada prepared to work for .80cents per hour?

As I said: wage levels for many skilled professions are declining or are at least stagnent. The only job category that is not affected are upper level management - largely because they are in charge of setting their own salaries (but that is another topic). There is no justification for increasing the minimum wage in the current economic environment.

[Catchme]

Of course there is justification for increasing min wage.

All that nonsense rhetoric about trade barriers and working at macdonalds needs a low wage is just that, nonsense.

[Charles Anthony]

Of course there is justification for increasing min wage.

Well... what is it?

[White Doors]

Of course there is justification for increasing min wage.

All that nonsense rhetoric about trade barriers and working at macdonalds needs a low wage is just that, nonsense.

Well gee, you sure convinced me!

[Catchme]

More income spent in communities which benefits all. From housing, social safety net improvement, the purchasing of products and increasing consumer speading in all sectors.

Brings single parent families who have the working parent making min wage out of poverty. Thereby cutting subsidies from the government and decresing the need to rely upon charities food banks etc..

Targets those transnationals who take excessive profits out of Canada who pay min wage levels to increase their profit of margin. Thereby keeping more Canadian dollars in Canada.

Those who say the prices will increase to to accomodate this increase, provide proof that it would and show how much prices would increase if a min wage was made to 10/hr?

[Riverwind]

Those who say the prices will increase to to accomodate this increase, provide proof that it would and show how much prices would increase if a min wage was made to 10/hr?

I think the onus is on you to prove that prices will not go up. Businesses need to make a profit and if their labour costs increase and they compete in a market protected from international competition then they will raise prices.