3,500 City of Ottawa Jobs to be bilingual

[Leafless]

Oh I understand, that you arguing a definition with sense of belonging is silly. You assume that Francophone residents of Québec are naturally nationalists, which I understand by that you mean seperatist. This goes back to your nonsense deduction I pointed out earlier that 100% of Francophones = 100% of residents of Québec = 100% Seperatists. Québecers may have a different sense of belonging than other Canadians by putting their province first, but that does not mean they like Canada any less.

The other 50% of Quebec residents who are NOT separatist, (as proven by the past two referendums) are Quebec federalist nationalist, who still firmly believe, relating to loyalties, Quebec comes first and Canada second

Complicated, I know, but if they did believe Canada comes first, they would be fully content in describing themselves as Canadians.

Unilaterally imposed by democratically elected politicians... right. It was so unilateral, that it was introduced by those elected by a majoirty of voters! They wouldn't have done it if it were to flush their popularity prior to the following election, so apparently it's not as unilateral as you claim.

No, that is not true.

Rights are not in the same category as having a street repaved.

Rights come under responsible democratic leadership in which the citizens of Ottawa were DENIED fair political representation (in their majority English city) by mayor Bob Chiralli (a federal Liberal supporter) and city council to be part of the process that determines if Ottawa should adopt a 'federal style bilingual policy'.

And guess what.... Bob Chiralli is no longer mayor of Ottawa.

[Pat Coghlan]

Immersion does help, but is not necessary in order to learn a language. Considering the opportunities available for Westerners to immerse in the French language in Québec, any Westerner can achieve fluency in the French language, and should if considering ever working for the federal gov't (in this case I'm not arguing this because I think these jobs should require bilingualism but rather because many of these jobs actually do require both languages and it would be wise for anyone hoping to tap into this employment to learn their 2nd Canadian language).

In that case it should be possible to quantify - even approximately - the amount of time per day, on average, that the minority language would be required on the job each day.

If the manager can't certify that, on average, the minority language would be used at least 60 minutes per day, in your opinion, does it ever justify spending $100K, $200K or even $300K (salary + language training)?

[Kapitän Rotbart]

In that case it should be possible to quantify - even approximately - the amount of time per day, on average, that the minority language would be required on the job each day.

If the manager can't certify that, on average, the minority language would be used at least 60 minutes per day, in your opinion, does it ever justify spending $100K, $200K or even $300K (salary + language training)?

No, that's why it's easier to require bilingualism as opposed to providing training. Also, most government positions can be outsourced, especially the ones not making use of the minority language at least on average one hour per day, and outsourcing most government work would be even more efficient.

The other 50% of Quebec residents who are NOT separatist, (as proven by the past two referendums) are Quebec federalist nationalist, who still firmly believe, relating to loyalties, Quebec comes first and Canada second

Complicated, I know, but if they did believe Canada comes first, they would be fully content in describing themselves as Canadians.

Yeah, makes sense because you, an Ontarian, would know better than the Québecers when refering to their sense of belonging. Just because one lives in Québec does not mean they put ther province first and country second (and even if they did, it still wouldn't make them nationalists). I know Québecers who gladly describe themselves as Canadians. You seem to be making huge generalizations about people you seem to know little about.

No, that is not true.

Rights are not in the same category as having a street repaved.

Rights come under responsible democratic leadership in which the citizens of Ottawa were DENIED fair political representation (in their majority English city) by mayor Bob Chiralli (a federal Liberal supporter) and city council to be part of the process that determines if Ottawa should adopt a 'federal style bilingual policy'.

And guess what.... Bob Chiralli is no longer mayor of Ottawa.

Anglophones have the same rights as Francophones. If a job requires bilingualism, both languages are required regardless of one's background (whether one has to learn the majority, minority or both languages in order to have all the qualifications required for the position). As I said, the right to work is very different from the privilege to work a specific position. No employer will hire you on the basis that you have the right to work. The right to work in Canada is one of the requirements for a position in Canada, as well as the required skills, etc.

Bob Chiarelli is no longer mayor, but the polls leading up to the elections reveal interesting information. The other "liberal" candidate Alex Munter (probably more liberal than Chiarelli) led the polls for the longest time until shortly before the elections. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_munici...lection%2C_2006

Language is not the main reason to my knowledge why Chiarelli is no longer in power. He was proposing nonsense-spending concerning the oTrain, which in itself was a good enough reason to vote against him. Aside bilingual policies there is one good thing we can thank the liberals for... smoking bans! Ottawa has become such a better place since the smoking ban in 2001 (other than smoking bans and bilingual policies, we have nothing to thank the liberals for... the City of Ottawa should privatize garbage pick-up, something only the burliest of conservatives in Canadian politics may consider). Seriously though, the language issue is not the reason why Chiarelli lost the last municipal elections, plus O'Brian doesn't seem tempted to reverse these actions, despite the fact that he's not as interested in bilingualism as Bob Chiarelli was.

[Pat Coghlan]

In that case it should be possible to quantify - even approximately - the amount of time per day, on average, that the minority language would be required on the job each day.

If the manager can't certify that, on average, the minority language would be used at least 60 minutes per day, in your opinion, does it ever justify spending $100K, $200K or even $300K (salary + language training)?

No, that's why it's easier to require bilingualism as opposed to providing training. Also, most government positions can be outsourced, especially the ones not making use of the minority language at least on average one hour per day, and outsourcing most government work would be even more efficient.

If you're going to require bilingualism and not provide training, you're going to block a lot of non-francophones from government jobs, including many recent immigrants, who don't need French to function anywhere outside of Quebec - and even in many parts of Quebec.

And, if you're going to do that, there are going to have to be a LOT fewer jobs classified bilingual, with the focus being on those jobs where a service is provided to the public or employees (e.g. staffing, compensation, tax queries etc.).

You cannot require a job to be bilingual just to permit an employee to use the language of his/her choice at work. That choice must be removed, and the predominant language of the region enforced (hint, this is what happens for the most part anyway - just ask any EX that completed language training in the past few years).

[Leafless]

I know Québecers who gladly describe themselves as Canadians. You seem to be making huge generalizations about people you seem to know little about.

Your an Ontarian, right.

I was born and raised in a French district in Ottawa East and all my friends were Francophone who spoke to me only in English because that is the language they wanted to learn and wanted to speak, from the time I was five to the time I left home at twenty-four.

For all you know, maybe I am French.

This all changed when the Montreal Quebec university crowd began moving into West Quebec and Ottawa West demanding people speak to them in French. This had a minimal effect.

It was the city of Ottawa's detrimental bilingual policy that changed the face of Ottawa's majority English city of course with federal government interference promoting obsolete French all the way.

I know all about Francophone's in Quebec and Ottawa, so anything I say are not generalizations but are fact based on knowledge, relationships and experience.

Seriously though, the language issue is not the reason why Chiarelli lost the last municipal elections, plus O'Brian doesn't seem tempted to reverse these actions, despite the fact that he's not as interested in bilingualism as Bob Chiarelli was.

O'Brien will have next to an impossible job to kill Ottawa's bilingualism policy now that it is in place, just like politicians will have an almost impossible job to kill the 'Charter of rights and Freedoms'.

It will require a revolution or similar to restore the previous non-bilingual political order.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

If you're going to require bilingualism and not provide training, you're going to block a lot of non-francophones from government jobs, including many recent immigrants, who don't need French to function anywhere outside of Quebec - and even in many parts of Quebec.

And, if you're going to do that, there are going to have to be a LOT fewer jobs classified bilingual, with the focus being on those jobs where a service is provided to the public or employees (e.g. staffing, compensation, tax queries etc.).

You cannot require a job to be bilingual just to permit an employee to use the language of his/her choice at work. That choice must be removed, and the predominant language of the region enforced (hint, this is what happens for the most part anyway - just ask any EX that completed language training in the past few years).

Language training for both domestic languages is provided, most likely even at no cost to recent immigrants. http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/pub/annual-re...6/section5.html

Canadians can easily find themselves very affordable language training in adult high schools in any region where one may need both langauges for federal employment. Anyone interested in federal work yet not knowing both languages still have plenty of opportunities to work up their language skills. I still figure that anyone thinking of one day working for the government should figure that knowing both domestic languages would be really helpful if seeking work within the government of a country of two languages.

Why should fewer jobs be classified bilingual? Private sector doesn't have to require bilingualism, so any job not making use of both languages could most likely be outsourced (including many jobs requiring bilingualism aswell).

Actually, the language act only grants the right to gov't employees in relatively bilingual areas to report in one's prefered domestic language. It's not all bad though thanks to its reciprocity... Anglophones can still report in English in predominantly French-speaking, yet with significant Anglophone polulation, areas of Québec (without this Act, it would be a privilege which may not always be granted). Those having taken the language training probably have little interest in using their newly acquired language at work; they've been using their first domestic langauge with all their coworkers prior to training, so there would be no interest in using their second Canadian language.

Your an Ontarian, right.

I was born and raised in a French district in Ottawa East and all my friends were Francophone who spoke to me only in English because that is the language they wanted to learn and wanted to speak, from the time I was five to the time I left home at twenty-four.

For all you know, maybe I am French.

This all changed when the Montreal Quebec university crowd began moving into West Quebec and Ottawa West demanding people speak to them in French. This had a minimal effect.

It was the city of Ottawa's detrimental bilingual policy that changed the face of Ottawa's majority English city of course with federal government interference promoting obsolete French all the way.

I know all about Francophone's in Quebec and Ottawa, so anything I say are not generalizations but are fact based on knowledge, relationships and experience.

You still generalize the Québec population based on your observations. I would assume you had some reason for stating your observations, but regardless of connotations and sense of belonging, if I use a word correctly according to its definition (such as Québécois, being synonymous to Quebecer), there's no need in pointing it out.

For all I know, maybe no one on this forum is actually from Canada... possibilities are endless. I just assumed that because you're against bilingual policies in Ottawa, that you most likely wouldn't be from France.

O'Brien will have next to an impossible job to kill Ottawa's bilingualism policy now that it is in place, just like politicians will have an almost impossible job to kill the 'Charter of rights and Freedoms'.

It will require a revolution or similar to restore the previous non-bilingual political order.

There's no need to end these bilingual policies. They aren't harming anyone, just means that if one wants to apply for certain jobs, they should know both domestic languages.

[Leafless]

You still generalize the Québec population based on your observations.

You are the one that is generalizing.

Like I stated previously that it is a fact that approx. 50% of Quebecers are separatist and that is proven from the results of the past two Quebec referendums on separation.

The other 50%, if they were not Quebec French nationalist, would not be demanding that the English respect the French language and speak French in Quebec or would not be demanding bilingualism policies outside of Quebec.

This is fact!!!!

Give your head a shake!

You yourself are sympathetic to Quebec French nationalists or you would not be going to the ridiculous extremes defending bilingualism in this thread.

For all I know, maybe no one on this forum is actually from Canada... possibilities are endless. I just assumed that because you're against bilingual policies in Ottawa, that you most likely wouldn't be from France.

I suggest you see a doctor.

[Charles Anthony]

I know all about Francophone's in Quebec and Ottawa, so anything I say are not generalizations but are fact based on knowledge, relationships and experience.

Do you know how to speak French?

[Pat Coghlan]

If you're going to require bilingualism and not provide training, you're going to block a lot of non-francophones from government jobs, including many recent immigrants, who don't need French to function anywhere outside of Quebec - and even in many parts of Quebec.

And, if you're going to do that, there are going to have to be a LOT fewer jobs classified bilingual, with the focus being on those jobs where a service is provided to the public or employees (e.g. staffing, compensation, tax queries etc.).

You cannot require a job to be bilingual just to permit an employee to use the language of his/her choice at work. That choice must be removed, and the predominant language of the region enforced (hint, this is what happens for the most part anyway - just ask any EX that completed language training in the past few years).

Language training for both domestic languages is provided, most likely even at no cost to recent immigrants. http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/pub/annual-re...6/section5.html

Canadians can easily find themselves very affordable language training in adult high schools in any region where one may need both langauges for federal employment. Anyone interested in federal work yet not knowing both languages still have plenty of opportunities to work up their language skills. I still figure that anyone thinking of one day working for the government should figure that knowing both domestic languages would be really helpful if seeking work within the government of a country of two languages.

It's helpful if you work in a area designated as bilingual (part of Montreal, national capital, parts of NB) and work in HR or compensation. It's not that helpful if you work anywhere west of Ottawa (last time I boarded a plane in Vancouver they announced the flight in two languages - English and Cantonese).

What's the first thing that a manager says when addressing a large group of employees in Ottawa? Basically, that the meeting will be conducted in English. In Montreal, just replace English with French in the previous sentence.

To me, this makes sense. If someone wants to live and work in Ottawa, it's reasonable to expect that person to work in English - unless working in one of the types of jobs I described above.

I don't think you'll find much support for your position that "any job that isn't bilingual can be outsourced".

Forty percent of the public service is going to retire by 2012. It's going to be awfully difficult (practically and politically) to fill all the bilingual positions.

Why should fewer jobs be classified bilingual? Private sector doesn't have to require bilingualism, so any job not making use of both languages could most likely be outsourced (including many jobs requiring bilingualism aswell).

Actually, the language act only grants the right to gov't employees in relatively bilingual areas to report in one's prefered domestic language. It's not all bad though thanks to its reciprocity... Anglophones can still report in English in predominantly French-speaking, yet with significant Anglophone polulation, areas of Québec (without this Act, it would be a privilege which may not always be granted). Those having taken the language training probably have little interest in using their newly acquired language at work; they've been using their first domestic langauge with all their coworkers prior to training, so there would be no interest in using their second Canadian language.

So why are these positions bilingual?

IMHO, something like 80% of people who finish language training rarely - if ever - use their 2nd language at work.

Quebec is slowly moving to one official language just about everywhere except when federal government service to the public is involved, so it's only a matter of time before we address this language of work in a similar fashion.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

You are the one that is generalizing.

Like I stated previously that it is a fact that approx. 50% of Quebecers are separatist and that is proven from the results of the past two Quebec referendums on separation.

The other 50%, if they were not Quebec French nationalist, would not be demanding that the English respect the French language and speak French in Quebec or would not be demanding bilingualism policies outside of Quebec.

This is fact!

Give your head a shake!

You yourself are sympathetic to Quebec French nationalists or you would not be going to the ridiculous extremes defending bilingualism in this thread.

Fact? Still seems like fiction to me. I'm aware that nearly half of Québec's residents have been voting in favor of seperation in the referenda, so it's safe to assume that roughly half of Québec's residents are seperatists/nationalists. I don't see how you can assume that the other half demand bilingualism outside of their province. Many people in Québec don't speak English, so it's understandable that they expect people to speak to them in French in their region. This doesn't make them nationalists, they may love Canada more than you do yet never got around to learning their second domestic language, kind of like many Canadians outside to Québec.

I suggest you see a doctor.

Care to make more suggestions? I was messing around with you. Your statement "For all you know, maybe I am French" was so absurd that I couldn't resist.

It's helpful if you work in a area designated as bilingual (part of Montreal, national capital, parts of NB) and work in HR or compensation. It's not that helpful if you work anywhere west of Ottawa (last time I boarded a plane in Vancouver they announced the flight in two languages - English and Cantonese).

What's the first thing that a manager says when addressing a large group of employees in Ottawa? Basically, that the meeting will be conducted in English. In Montreal, just replace English with French in the previous sentence.

To me, this makes sense. If someone wants to live and work in Ottawa, it's reasonable to expect that person to work in English - unless working in one of the types of jobs I described above.

I don't think you'll find much support for your position that "any job that isn't bilingual can be outsourced".

Forty percent of the public service is going to retire by 2012. It's going to be awfully difficult (practically and politically) to fill all the bilingual positions.

I'll agree that anyone seeking employment in Ottawa should be able to work in English, but the federal government does not pertain to any city nor province, so they can set their own language requirements.

Ottawa West's main industry is IT, probably the only private industry in Ottawa which will most likely never require bilingualism. The private sector is (for the most part) free to operate in their prefered language, yet Ottawa's private sector's thirst for bilingual candidates illustrates the real demand for bilingualism.

Most people wouldn't want gov't positions outsourced because they're paid better in the public sector. Not privatizing/outsourcing most gov't jobs is a waste of tax money, IMHO.

So why are these positions bilingual?

IMHO, something like 80% of people who finish language training rarely - if ever - use their 2nd language at work.

Quebec is slowly moving to one official language just about everywhere except when federal government service to the public is involved, so it's only a matter of time before we address this language of work in a similar fashion.

Many of these jobs are bilingual because to honor the Act, people can choose to report to those working such bilingual positions in their prefered domestic language, requiring those being reported to by other gov't employees to know both languages. It still seems to me that trends in Québec are independant of bilingualism in Ottawa. The Act may not be perfect, be we might as well honor it now that it's been legislated.

[Leafless]

I know all about Francophone's in Quebec and Ottawa, so anything I say are not generalizations but are fact based on knowledge, relationships and experience.

Do you know how to speak French?

No, I don't speak French, nor would I consider learning French under the discriminatory terms of the federal government or the City of Ottawa or any private business that caters to federal government promoted artificial bilingualism in order to gain employment.

I would consider French if there was a natural demand originating from the source province, Quebec to learn it.

But up to now it seems Quebec would rather cater to Quebecers and French speaking Africans rather than English, mother tongue Canadian, bilingual candidates for what jobs there are in Quebec.

Quebec is not serious about official bilingualism and opening their doors to bilingual English speaking Canadians or out of province service providers and are overly culturally protective to be of any kind of net benefit for English speaking bilingual Canadians.

Natural bilingualism cannot function with a Quebec 'one way street' attitude.

[Charles Anthony]

LeafLess,

Let me start with a confession: I learned a bit of French from a school system that was the product of Trudeaumania. If that prejudices you against me, so be it. Maybe I have been brain-washed and I am a Liberal drone.

Your expose comes across as nothing but a rant because you reflexively equate French with French-Canadian-government-bilingual-Quebec-discrimination-public-service-whatever jobs.

You know what I find very distressing about this rant? Your fixation on public service jobs.

I am struggling through this anti-French fixation and I am guessing that it hides a covet for a public service job.

[Pat Coghlan]

So why are these positions bilingual?

IMHO, something like 80% of people who finish language training rarely - if ever - use their 2nd language at work.

Quebec is slowly moving to one official language just about everywhere except when federal government service to the public is involved, so it's only a matter of time before we address this language of work in a similar fashion.

Many of these jobs are bilingual because to honor the Act, people can choose to report to those working such bilingual positions in their prefered domestic language, requiring those being reported to by other gov't employees to know both languages. It still seems to me that trends in Québec are independant of bilingualism in Ottawa. The Act may not be perfect, be we might as well honor it now that it's been legislated.

Finally, we agree. It's all about The Act.

At the beginning, at least there was a willingness to train people. More and more, managers don't want to lose (and pay for) employees on language training, so they opt to hire francophones (I'm talking about Ottawa here), often requiring proficiency in French to even start a job. Chretien did this for all EX-level positions in the 90s.

In spite of the fact that most work is done in the language of the majority in any region (i.e. English in ROC, French in Que) we spend billions of dollars a year on language training which, I believe, for the most part gets wasted because employees return to using the dominant language...just like they did before going on language training.

The next 5 years will be the make-or-break period for this language of work issue, due to the high number of public servants who retire during that period.

[Leafless]

You know what I find very distressing about this rant? Your fixation on public service jobs.

Your picking on the wrong person.

Check the content of this thread and you will see it is Kapitan Rotbart who is fixated and obsessed with bilingualism and federal public service jobs.

I am struggling through this anti-French fixation and I am guessing that it hides a covet for a public service job.

I consider myself reasonably prejudiced and critical relating to the federal governments discriminatory 'official bilingual policy', along with its undemocratic promotion of its version of bilingualism outside of federal jurisdiction into Canadian provinces and cities but ignoring Quebec, concerning enforcing its federal bilingual ideologies in that province.

My objections to bilingualism is no rant.

I am fighting for my lost constitutional individual rights as a Canadian citizen.

Our 'Parliamentary Democracy' form of government is lost in this country with the implementation of 'Charter Rights and freedoms' that protects previous controversial federal government policies.

Don't worry Charles, I was a previous a federal public service employee (years ago) who lost employment with the federal government, owing fully to the incredible playful antics of 'official bilingualism' (but with deadly consequences) in the federal government.

The last thing I ever desire in my lifetime again, is federal government employment.

Being ruined once, was enough for me, which has burdened me ever since with ever lasting hardships.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

No, I don't speak French, nor would I consider learning French under the discriminatory terms of the federal government or the City of Ottawa or any private business that caters to federal government promoted artificial bilingualism in order to gain employment.

I would consider French if there was a natural demand originating from the source province, Quebec to learn it.

But up to now it seems Quebec would rather cater to Quebecers and French speaking Africans rather than English, mother tongue Canadian, bilingual candidates for what jobs there are in Quebec.

Quebec is not serious about official bilingualism and opening their doors to bilingual English speaking Canadians or out of province service providers and are overly culturally protective to be of any kind of net benefit for English speaking bilingual Canadians.

Natural bilingualism cannot function with a Quebec 'one way street' attitude.

Don't wanna learn French? Your loss. Many Francophones won't learn your language for the same reason. Natural bilingualism cannot function as long as people like you live in Canada.

Québec is still a good reason to learn French. Seven million people in a province larger than twice the size of France should be a big enough incentive to learn their language (especially considering you're living next to them). As long as the West is "English-Only", there's no reason for Québec to make room for bilingualism in their province.

Québec caters more to French-speaking Africans than Anglophone bilingual Canadians?! Explain. Canada caters more to the Africans, Hispanics, Asians, Arabs, etc. than to Caucasian Canadians due to minority quotas unilaterally imposed on publicly liscenced media companies. I do not know of any incentives Québec uses to cater strictly to minorities. What I do know, is that Québec has "relations" with certain other countries, meaning a citizen of Italy, France, Cameroon and certain other countries pay the same rates in Québec as Québec residents do for public services (for instance education and transportation) whereas non-Québecer Canadians pay easily the double in tuition if they wish to study in Québec. This however also applies to certain European nationalities, so it's not really an incentive to cater just to black people.

Caeteris paribus, bilingual candidates get the job regardless of mother tongue. Anglophone Quebecers are more likely to be bilingual than other Québecers, meaning they still have an advantage over Negro-Québecers. Culture is not a real barrier for Anglophone bilignual Canadians in Québec, because it's still Western culture. There's probably a greater gap between Anglophone Canadian culture and the culture found in other English-speaking countries in other continents than between the cultures of the Canadians of the two domestic languages.

Finally, we agree. It's all about The Act.

At the beginning, at least there was a willingness to train people. More and more, managers don't want to lose (and pay for) employees on language training, so they opt to hire francophones (I'm talking about Ottawa here), often requiring proficiency in French to even start a job. Chretien did this for all EX-level positions in the 90s.

In spite of the fact that most work is done in the language of the majority in any region (i.e. English in ROC, French in Que) we spend billions of dollars a year on language training which, I believe, for the most part gets wasted because employees return to using the dominant language...just like they did before going on language training.

The next 5 years will be the make-or-break period for this language of work issue, due to the high number of public servants who retire during that period.

It's not all about the Act. The act the gov't created is a large incentive to require bilingualism, however gov't jobs "should require bilingualism anyway", that way the gov't can relocate its employees and have them work on any project/contract without language being an issue. Without the act, it would be trickier to harmonize.

The baby-boom retirement issue will impact our society, but likely not nearly as hard as anticipated. The gov't can easily fill those positions with skilled candidates most likely aged between 25 and 55. I'm not too concerned, as Leafless said, without a revolution, bilingual policies aren't likely to go away. Canada's one of the last places on Earth I'd expect to find a revolution, I'd figure things will just stay the same.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

You know what I find very distressing about this rant? Your fixation on public service jobs.

Your picking on the wrong person.

Check the content of this thread and you will see it is Kapitan Rotbart who is fixated and obsessed with bilingualism and federal public service jobs.

I am struggling through this anti-French fixation and I am guessing that it hides a covet for a public service job.

I consider myself reasonably prejudiced and critical relating to the federal governments discriminatory 'official bilingual policy', along with its undemocratic promotion of its version of bilingualism outside of federal jurisdiction into Canadian provinces and cities but ignoring Quebec, concerning enforcing its federal bilingual ideologies in that province.

My objections to bilingualism is no rant.

I am fighting for my lost constitutional individual rights as a Canadian citizen.

Our 'Parliamentary Democracy' form of government is lost in this country with the implementation of 'Charter Rights and freedoms' that protects previous controversial federal government policies.

Don't worry Charles, I was a previous a federal public service employee (years ago) who lost employment with the federal government, owing fully to the incredible playful antics of 'official bilingualism' (but with deadly consequences) in the federal government.

The last thing I ever desire in my lifetime again, is federal government employment.

Being ruined once, was enough for me, which has burdened me ever since with ever lasting hardships.

This explains a lot. You're clearly motivated by spite to advocate against bilingual policies. Makes sense.

Without the Official Languages Act, Canadians have no language rights. Your rights as a Canadian citizen were not denied because the position required bilingualism, a skill you didn't have.

Your arguments about Québec are most likely also driven by spite. Was the guy who took your job working as a public servant a Québecer?

Québec does not have the same level of local support for bilingualism as Ontario does, plus Ontario and Ottawa have been governed by Leberals / Liberal supporters for the last while, reason being for the interest in pushing bilingual policies. NO political party in Québec to my knowledge is interested in bilingualism, so the only thing you could do to change that is by getting involved in Québec's provincial politics.

[Charles Anthony]

Your arguments about Québec are most likely also driven by spite. Was the guy who took your job working as a public servant a Québecer?

-- and gay too?

Being ruined once, was enough for me, which has burdened me ever since with ever lasting hardships.

Ruined? Burdened? Ever-lasting hardships, no doubt.

How about a river in Africa?

[Leafless]

Without the Official Languages Act, Canadians have no language rights.

Majority English Canada never needed language rights.

English WAS the de facto language of Canada and STILL IS the de facto language of Canada, despite the 'Official Languages Act'.

LOL- The only reason the 'OLA' became a reality was because of the dysfunctional political system we have in this country that allows cultural wars to continue and corrupt the face and workings of the federal government of Canada, depending on who the government of the day is.

The war on the 'Plains of Abraham' is still carried on, with the poor loser French Quebec insistent on taking over and controlling Canada.

Your arguments about Québec are most likely also driven by spite. Was the guy who took your job working as a public servant a Québecer?

This was during the French invasion of the federal public service a while back when Franco phones were unleashed into the federal public service by the boatload. New French managers transformed a single English position into three French bilingual imperative positions.

No one person forced me to leave my position.

It was the linguistic atmosphere that was poisoned by artificial French dominance that destroyed the department I was employed in. My working partner left a year before I did after enduring unbearable animosity and extremely stressful working conditions.

[jbg]

As long as the West is "English-Only", there's no reason for Québec to make room for bilingualism in their province.

The West doesn't have laws banning French signs. There's simply no demand for them. The West doesn't have educational laws preventing the teaching of French. There's simply little demand for it.

So it goes.

[Leafless]

Your arguments about Québec are most likely also driven by spite. Was the guy who took your job working as a public servant a Québecer?

-- and gay too?

Talking about spite and unproven allegations.

Charles, why don't you be a man and say whatever is on your mind.

[BZBee]

Under what law? Under all federal documents, America's 51st state (the one with the maple leaf) has two official languages.

Be careful what you wish for!! Canadians may have to learn a third language.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Be careful what you wish for! Canadians may have to learn a third language.

There are already many incentives to learn a third language. Not likely to be a necessity in Canada though, as long as we keep the languages act (unless we get an incredible rate of tourism from a nation sharing no language with Canada).

The West doesn't have laws banning French signs. There's simply no demand for them. The West doesn't have educational laws preventing the teaching of French. There's simply little demand for it.

So it goes.

Québec's law 101 does not ban signs in English, they just insist that they be in French first and anything in largest print would have to be in French.

Law 101 was a case of action-reaction. When the English colonized the QC, instead of assimilating the Québecers by making all the schools English language schools, they tried populating QC with European Anglophones (Englishmen, Scots and Irish). This was ridiculous colonization, so the Québecers made sure no future assimilation attempts would work thanks to their law. The tragic result is spite.

The prairies were once much more French-speaking than they are now. Unlike Québec, the prairies have practically forced assimilation, making it very difficult, if not impossible to obtain education in the French language.

Majority English Canada never needed language rights.

English WAS the de facto language of Canada and STILL IS the de facto language of Canada, despite the 'Official Languages Act'.

LOL- The only reason the 'OLA' became a reality was because of the dysfunctional political system we have in this country that allows cultural wars to continue and corrupt the face and workings of the federal government of Canada, depending on who the government of the day is.

The war on the 'Plains of Abraham' is still carried on, with the poor loser French Quebec insistent on taking over and controlling Canada.

Yeah, Lots Of Laughs indeed. English would have been De Facto regardless since the English colonized Canada, but French was still De Facto in QC (and had the provinces not made any language policies of their own prior to the language act, French would also be de facto in certain parts of the prairies and Ontario.

Québecers have no interest in taking over the country, they are only interested in their own province based on your earlier arguments.

This was during the French invasion of the federal public service a while back when Franco phones were unleashed into the federal public service by the boatload. New French managers transformed a single English position into three French bilingual imperative positions.

No one person forced me to leave my position.

It was the linguistic atmosphere that was poisoned by artificial French dominance that destroyed the department I was employed in. My working partner left a year before I did after enduring unbearable animosity and extremely stressful working conditions.

Managers from France? Shucks, I hope they had permission to work in Canada! Well shucks, if you weren't forced to leave, then bilingual policies haven't affected you. I still don't get what you mean by English bilingual and French bilingual... if a position requires bilingualism in Soviet Canuckistan, it requires English and French. What's a French bilingual position?!?! As I said, if a position requires bilingualism, of course it will require French. People speaking French around you stresses you out? That's a symptom of xenophobia!

[jbg]

Under what law? Under all federal documents, America's 51st state (the one with the maple leaf) has two official languages.

Be careful what you wish for!! Canadians may have to learn a third language.

English?

I gather the two official languages now are Canadian and French.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Under what law? Under all federal documents, America's 51st state (the one with the maple leaf) has two official languages.

Be careful what you wish for!! Canadians may have to learn a third language.

English?

I gather the two official languages now are Canadian and French.

That, or America's de facto language is American.

[Leafless]

Québec's law 101 does not ban signs in English, they just insist that they be in French first and anything in largest print would have to be in French.

An authoritative language law like the one you have just described is contrary to human rights legislation:

'Freedom of speech is the concept of the inherent human right to voice one's opinion publicly without fear of censorship or punishment. The right is preserved in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and is granted formal recognition by the laws of most nations.'

It is obvious Quebec has no respect for the United Nations Universal Declaration of human rights nor the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Yeah, Lots Of Laughs indeed. English would have been De Facto regardless since the English colonized Canada

Thanks to the English victory on the 'Plains of Abraham'.

but French was still De Facto in QC

Why shouldn't it be, as constitutionally speaking Quebec has the right to the French language in Quebec and Quebec also made French the official language of Quebec, spitting in the face of all other provinces in Canada who signed the constitution of Canada, and have linguistic COMMITTMENTS to BOTH of Canada's official languages, unlike Quebec who BTW never even signed Canada's constitution.

(and had the provinces not made any language policies of their own prior to the language act, French would also be de facto in certain parts of the prairies and Ontario.

What policies might those be? If all other provinces signed the Canada's constitution outside of Quebec, other provinces like I mentioned, must abide linguistic commitments to BOTH of Canada's 'official languages'.

So you want to use 'de facto' relating to language use, broken down to neighbourhoods. LOL- More trolling by an fraudulent incompetent poster and pretty well relating to all his other replies.

Québecers have no interest in taking over the country, they are only interested in their own province based on your earlier arguments.

Then why have Francophone's managed to flood federal offices, Crown Corporations and have relocated important federal department into all parts of Quebec from its rightful place in Ottawa, Ontario, Capital city of Canada and supposedly home to Canada's federal public service as dictated by England's Queen Victoria.

Oh, I know its all about that French skill.

Managers from France? Shucks, I hope they had permission to work in Canada! Well shucks, if you weren't forced to leave, then bilingual policies haven't affected you. I still don't get what you mean by English bilingual and French bilingual... if a position requires bilingualism in Soviet Canuckistan, it requires English and French. What's a French bilingual position?!?! As I said, if a position requires bilingualism, of course it will require French. People speaking French around you stresses you out? That's a symptom of xenophobia!

I have no idea what your talking about.

But I will agree xenophobia is an appropriate word for someone who has a dislike of Francophone's.