3,500 City of Ottawa Jobs to be bilingual

[Leafless]

If you were smart, you'd know that no people have 'chosen' assimilation; it was forced upon them.

You don't choose being assimilated, you do it for your own good and national unity. Quebecers are the ones with the minority language, NOT the hundreds of millions English speaking Canadian and U.S. residents that make the English language what it is.

French Quebec had no rights outside of their own province to propagate their language, which consequntly no one wants.

England was to blame for doing such a terrible job at colonizing the QC.

England never wanted to colonize Quebec.

They allowed Quebec to exist because they simply did not know what to do with them and gave them some constitutional rights to boot.

The English, who did this in other countries, somehow didn't assimilate the Quebecers, instead they tried populating the QC with Euro-Anglophones. This was possibly the stupidest thing the English have done in North American history. The obvious result is spite.

Where is your link, proof or whatever to back up your unadulterated BS.

Who's English majority identity? Though English is probably the largest ethnicity in Canada (like German is the largest ethnicity in the USA... almost 50 million Americans have German ancestry, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American), there are many Canadians who only speak English yet they are of Dutch, Greek, Ukrainian, Chinese, etc. ancestry. Would it be terrible for a Dutch Canadian who only speaks English to learn French? By the way, your logic is flawed. Learning a language does not mean that one admits false historical facts. Is a Texan compromizing his or her identity by learning Spanish and 'therefore' admitting that the Mexicans won the battle of Alamo in San Antonio? Seems like nonsense.

The U.S. acquired the use of the English language from Britain, the same country that is responsible for the British victory of Canada.

The only people that make language a big deal is Quebec because to this day they refuse to be assimilated.

Corrupt French lead Quebec prime ministers has helped make the spread of French a reality For Quebec by implementing discriminatory language policies and even the racially discriminatory Charter.

Smart Anglophones will learn French because it increases their possibilities in their own country.

Possibilities for what?

To be manipulated by a corrupt, totalitarian federal government in order to force Canadians to comply to an obsolete French language to give Quebec a place in society, something they have FAILED to do on their own.

7 million voters back up policies supporting the French language. I don't have to back it.

Another false statement, unless you can provide proof, which you never do.

Language policies were not voted on by any Canadian.

They were the product of a corrupt federal government and implemented without including the voice of the citizens of Canada.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

You don't choose being assimilated, you do it for your own good and national unity. Quebecers are the ones with the minority language, NOT the hundreds of millions English speaking Canadian and U.S. residents that make the English language what it is.

French Quebec had no rights outside of their own province to propagate their language, which consequntly no one wants.

Nonsense. People integrate for their own good, no people willfully 'choose' assimilation.

What do you know about what everyone wants?

England never wanted to colonize Quebec.

They allowed Quebec to exist because they simply did not know what to do with them and gave them some constitutional rights to boot.

Nonsense again. Why wouldn't England want to colonize Québec? Considering the natural resources, there are huge incentives for colonization. "not know what to do with them"? Doesn't make any sense... the English, who had good experience in colonization would be the first to know what to do once they acquire a colony.

Where is your link, proof or whatever to back up your unadulterated BS.

Here's a good read when you've got the time: http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory...History_000.htm. I learned this from a video from CBC about Canadian English. I don't think you could find resources claiming otherwise. Québec was the only case where the English did a terrible job in terms of colonization.

The U.S. acquired the use of the English language from Britain, the same country that is responsible for the British victory of Canada.

The only people that make language a big deal is Quebec because to this day they refuse to be assimilated.

Corrupt French lead Quebec prime ministers has helped make the spread of French a reality For Quebec by implementing discriminatory language policies and even the racially discriminatory Charter.

Where else would the USA acquire it from? Most people will keep their language and culture alive provided the feasibility and the community supporting it. The Basks in France and Spain still make a big deal about language, despite not having recognition in the two countries.

Are you suggesting that Anglophone prime ministers were less corrupt?

Possibilities for what?

Job opportunities, travel within Canada and abroad, bursaries for studies... you are blind to the opportunities that come with learning a language since you refuse to consider acquiring such a skill. Your loss.

To be manipulated by a corrupt, totalitarian federal government in order to force Canadians to comply to an obsolete French language to give Quebec a place in society, something they have FAILED to do on their own.

Whatever that means.

Another false statement, unless you can provide proof, which you never do.

Language policies were not voted on by any Canadian.

They were the product of a corrupt federal government and implemented without including the voice of the citizens of Canada.

They didn't have to be voted on by the Canadian population. Canadians vote for politicians. Politicians make decisions which essentially reflect the interests of Canadians. If the Anglophone majority were really afraid of the government imposing language policies to which they would disagree, they wouldn't vote for any politician having a French name.

[Leafless]

Nonsense. People integrate for their own good, no people willfully 'choose' assimilation.

Then what is Quebec's problem.

Are they to dumb to know what is good for them?

Obviously they cannot exist on there own without huge amounts of federal help, courtesy 'a la Canadian taxpayer'.

Nonsense again. Why wouldn't England want to colonize Québec?

Because they knew they did not want to be assimilated.

What do you want England to do, kill them all or ship them at a huge expense back to France?

Here's a good read when you've got the time: http://www2.marianopolis.edu/quebechistory...History_000.htm. I learned this from a video from CBC about Canadian English. I don't think you could find resources claiming otherwise. Québec was the only case where the English did a terrible job in terms of colonization.

No one cares about old irrelevant history. Quebec no longer cares about religion...to-day its politics and the same old linguistic bit.

Let's keep it from the 'Plains of Abraham' onward and pertaining to 'legal rights' not imaginary.

Where else would the USA acquire it from? Most people will keep their language and culture alive provided the feasibility and the community supporting it. The Basks in France and Spain still make a big deal about language, despite not having recognition in the two countries.

Again, what is Quebec's excuse?

They cannot support their province utilizing French only french resources.

You can dream all you want about keeping your obsolete language alive but you cannot support it financially without very expensive federal help.

Where is Quebec's responsibility to Canada the country they are part of? Or are they content to freeload forever?

Are you suggesting that Anglophone prime ministers were less corrupt?

Did English prime ministers ever try to kick Quebec out of confederation or force Quebec to accept by policy to accept the English language?

Whatever that means.

It means what you do not understand either.

If you want to remain independent with your own language and laws from the rest of Canada, you pay for it, which Quebec cannot do.

If the Anglophone majority were really afraid of the government imposing language policies to which they would disagree, they wouldn't vote for any politician having a French name.

This could very well be a coming reality.

But then again there are many stupid Canadians who do not understand the politics of Canada, and could be bribed with their own money, relating to a few socialistic policies and the phony Quebec separation and unity BS.

The English in Canada only have themselves to blame giving away the country to an arrogant self righteous French minority.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Then what is Quebec's problem.

Are they to dumb to know what is good for them?

Obviously they cannot exist on there own without huge amounts of federal help, courtesy 'a la Canadian taxpayer'.

Québec doesn't have to integrate. They speak one of the official languages, which is all they need.

Because they knew they did not want to be assimilated.

What do you want England to do, kill them all or ship them at a huge expense back to France?

No, silly! Require all schools to use the colonists' language as the language of instruction, (possibly ban homeschooling) and make primary education mandatory. Changing the language used in schools has always been an effective winner used by colonists, including the English, to assimilate the colonized.

Shipping Québecers back to France is like shipping Americans to England. Doesn't work (since American independance, USA no longer belongs to England and since the Plains of Abraham, Québec no longer belongs to France).

No one cares about old irrelevant history. Quebec no longer cares about religion...to-day its politics and the same old linguistic bit.

Let's keep it from the 'Plains of Abraham' onward and pertaining to 'legal rights' not imaginary.

Irrelevant? I beg to differ! Isn't it since the Plains of Abraham that Québec was an English colony? Once acquired, the English did a terrible job in Québec. Sending Anglophones from Europe and not changing the language of instruction only causes frustration, spite and division between the Anglophones and Francophones in the QC.

Again, what is Quebec's excuse?

They cannot support their province utilizing French only french resources.

You can dream all you want about keeping your obsolete language alive but you cannot support it financially without very expensive federal help.

Where is Quebec's responsibility to Canada the country they are part of? Or are they content to freeload forever?

No province in Canada could truly be financially independant except Alberta. If any Canadian province calls closed borders, it will be a case similar to what occured in many Hispanic countries; an effective way to ruin one's economy.

Québec doesn't need to integrate, they can do everything in their language in their entire province (Canada's largest province), so there is no need for the greater part of Québec's population to learn English. I'll agree that anyone refusing to learn their second Canadian language is limiting their opportunities, but most Canadians seem to be managing fine knowing only one of the two languages, and because you can't force someone to learn a language, it's more a question of when will you learn that Québec is not going to give up their language anytime soon?

Did English prime ministers ever try to kick Quebec out of confederation or force Quebec to accept by policy to accept the English language?

Is that your idea of a non-corrupt prime minister?

It means what you do not understand either.

If you want to remain independent with your own language and laws from the rest of Canada, you pay for it, which Quebec cannot do.

It's not a case of "your own language". Québec is using a Canadian language, therefore it's not an issue.

There are plenty of Francophones paying into equalization (almost all of these living in Ontario).

This could very well be a coming reality.

But then again there are many stupid Canadians who do not understand the politics of Canada, and could be bribed with their own money, relating to a few socialistic policies and the phony Quebec separation and unity BS.

The English in Canada only have themselves to blame giving away the country to an arrogant self righteous French minority.

"Arrogant"? What, and you're not arrogant?! You mentioned previously that you wouldn't make an effort to speak French if you had to buy something on the other side of the river where French is the majority language.

[guyser]

No province in Canada could truly be financially independant except Alberta.

Not Ontario ?

[Leafless]

Québec doesn't have to integrate. They speak one of the official languages, which is all they need.

Official languages were the invention of a Liberal inquiry and implemented by traitorous actions of a corrupt federal government.

No, silly! Require all schools to use the colonists' language as the language of instruction, (possibly ban homeschooling) and make primary education mandatory. Changing the language used in schools has always been an effective winner used by colonists, including the English, to assimilate the colonized.

Quebec was set in their ways and this is what gave way to the 1774 'Quebec Act' and was also one of the main causes of the American Revolution.

Shipping Québecers back to France is like shipping Americans to England. Doesn't work (since American independence, USA no longer belongs to England and since the Plains of Abraham, Québec no longer belongs to France).

Obviously you enjoy taking things out of perspective to try to capitalize your point of view.

I would be talking about immediately after the battle of the 'Plains of Abraham' and not to-day. Get real.

Irrelevant? I beg to differ! Isn't it since the Plains of Abraham that Quebec was an English colony? Once acquired, the English did a terrible job in Québec.

Quebec was not an ally of the British and this is why the 'Quebec Act' was born to accommodate Quebec.

[jbg]

Everyone, I thought this whole controversy was settled on the Plains of Abraham. What's this garbage about a second language having equal status?

[Leafless]

No province in Canada could truly be financially independant except Alberta. If any Canadian province calls closed borders, it will be a case similar to what occured in many Hispanic countries; an effective way to ruin one's economy.

Equalization is about addressing fiscal disparities.

Let's put it this way.

If equalization was an insurance, Quebec would have been booted out years ago as being to much of an extreme liability.

Equalization also removes the incentive for a province to improve its finances, as it can always expect to be to be subsidized and be topped up financially.

Québec doesn't need to integrate, they can do everything in their language in their entire province (Canada's largest province), so there is no need for the greater part of Québec's population to learn English.

Then why is Quebec a have not province?

Why does Quebec feel so good incorporating an obsolete foreign language that drives investment out of the province and in turn has to rely on federal assistance for just about everything?

I'll agree that anyone refusing to learn their second Canadian language is limiting their opportunities, but most Canadians seem to be managing fine knowing only one of the two languages, and because you can't force someone to learn a language, it's more a question of when will you learn that Québec is not going to give up their language anytime soon?

This is only because Quebec continues to be subsidized by the federal government allowing it to live an artificial existence.

Take away all federal subsidies and Quebec will be 'turning hand wheels' to jump aboard the English bandwagon.

Is that your idea of a non-corrupt prime minister?

A non-corrupt PM stays clear of social engineering and modifying Canadian history to suit the agenda of a spiteful minority.

It's not a case of "your own language". Québec is using a Canadian language, therefore it's not an issue.

Quebec is using the artificial and legal status given to the French language by a corrupt method, to capitalize in a manner no other minority language in Canada was given.

There are plenty of Francophones paying into equalization (almost all of these living in Ontario).

That is what? The 4.8% of Ontario's population. Again if this was an insurance plan, the company would go bankrupt, paying what it does to Quebec.

"Arrogant"? What, and you're not arrogant?! You mentioned previously that you wouldn't make an effort to speak French if you had to buy something on the other side of the river where French is the majority language.

If Quebec was a separate country it could then say French is the majority language. But it is not and must calculate all other provinces languages into the equation. It will then readily be seen that, no, French is not a majority language but a minority language.

Quebec is still part of Canada being nicely subsidized by Canadian taxpayers.

If majority English speaking Canadians who don't speak French are not welcome in Quebec, let Quebec's provincial government fully advertise that fact, officially.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

No province in Canada could truly be financially independant except Alberta.

Not Ontario ?

Not exactly. Despite tariffs, Alberta could still sell enough oil to fund and provide just about everything to their residents. If there were tariffs between provinces, or even if Québecers stopped consuming tobacco and cars produced in Ontario, I don't know how well we'd be doing.

Everyone, I thought this whole controversy was settled on the Plains of Abraham. What's this garbage about a second language having equal status?

The English did a sappy job colonizing Canada. They did not assimilate 'everyone' in their language, nor in their religion (being the Church of England).

Quebec was set in their ways and this is what gave way to the 1774 'Quebec Act' and was also one of the main causes of the American Revolution. (...) Quebec was not an ally of the British and this is why the 'Quebec Act' was born to accommodate Quebec.

If England were really the boss, they wouldn't have to accomodate to anyone. The English failed at properly colonizing Canada. The Québec Act did not cause the American Revolution... Québec could have been fully part of Britain like Newfoundland and it would have been just as nice a place for loyalists to flee to at the time of the American Revolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Act

If I may compare, German-occupied France during WWII was not "assimilated" because they were still in war times. Normally assimilation starts when wars end. Britain had won the Plains of Abraham... why didn't they just claim Québec as English soil, raise their flag, bring their currency and establish their language and religion in every school? It's the English we have to blame for doing a sappy job.

Equalization is about addressing fiscal disparities.

Let's put it this way.

If equalization was an insurance, Quebec would have been booted out years ago as being to much of an extreme liability.

Equalization also removes the incentive for a province to improve its finances, as it can always expect to be to be subsidized and be topped up financially.

Don't Ontarians and Albertans pay more into equalization for BC+Saskatchewan+Manitoba+Maritimes+Newfoundland than for Québec? We would have given the maritimes to the USA long ago had it been about liability.

Then why is Quebec a have not province?

Why does Quebec feel so good incorporating an obsolete foreign language that drives investment out of the province and in turn has to rely on federal assistance for just about everything?

Québec doesn't have oil nor does it have nearly as much tobacco cultivation nor automobile production as Ontario does. One can only make so much money on maple syrup. Their financial issues have nothing to do with language.

This is only because Quebec continues to be subsidized by the federal government allowing it to live an artificial existence.

Take away all federal subsidies and Quebec will be 'turning hand wheels' to jump aboard the English bandwagon.

If you kill equalization, Québec and Newfoundland will most likely seperate, and the maritimes will starve. Not gonna happen.

A non-corrupt PM stays clear of social engineering and modifying Canadian history to suit the agenda of a spiteful minority.

If a Prime Minister candidate were to announce that they wanted to "try to kick Quebec out of confederation or force Quebec to accept by policy to accept the English language", they would not get elected. I'm glad Canadian democracy wouldn't support your crazy ideas.

Quebec is using the artificial and legal status given to the French language by a corrupt method, to capitalize in a manner no other minority language in Canada was given.

No other people have officially ruled Canada nor did they have a high enough concentration in one place. At the time the largest minorities after the Francophones were the Germans and the Italians, neither being large enough in numbers nor powerful enough in governance at the time.

If Quebec was a separate country it could then say French is the majority language. But it is not and must calculate all other provinces languages into the equation. It will then readily be seen that, no, French is not a majority language but a minority language.

Quebec is still part of Canada being nicely subsidized by Canadian taxpayers.

If majority English speaking Canadians who don't speak French are not welcome in Quebec, let Quebec's provincial government fully advertise that fact, officially.

Québecers also pay tax. A language can also be considered a majority language in a given region/locale. French is the majority language of Québec. French is the minority language of Canada.

Why wouldn't Anglophones not be welcome in Québec? Ok, a majority of Québecers have very poor English language skills, and some are xenophobic, yet there are xenophones in the RoC aswell, and most Anglophones in the RoC have poor French language skills, so it goes both ways. I'd say Anglophones are more "welcome" in Québec than I am anywhere in Canada (Québec+RoC) on the basis that I don't like ice hockey.

Why the hell are we still going on about Québec anyway? It's a province like any other (except the fact that the English failed miserably at colonization in the QC). The thread's topic was an increase in bilingual positions in Ottawa. Has nothing to do with Québec; Québecers don't vote in Ottawan municipal elections unless they are Ottawan residents (and that would make them Ontarian).

[Leafless]

No province in Canada could truly be financially independant except Alberta.

There is no saying a province could not survive even if they were not financially independendent. Their standard of living would be less, that's all.

Even Alberta, if it did seriously contemplate separation, would probably for an added level of security, join the U.S.

The English did a sappy job colonizing Canada. They did not assimilate 'everyone' in their language, nor in their religion (being the Church of England).

Religion was a major barrier, besides you cannot teach an old dog new tricks, resulting in the 'Quebec Act' 1774.

But this was the one of the main reason for the American Revolution as other Catholic English colonies felt cheated because Quebec received this type of special deal.

Don't Ontarians and Albertans pay more into equalization for BC+Saskatchewan+Manitoba+Maritimes+Newfoundland than for Québec? We would have given the maritimes to the USA long ago had it been about liability.

It is Quebec that drains the 'equalization bank' along with many costly federal programs.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV05/eqpe.html

Québec doesn't have oil nor does it have nearly as much tobacco cultivation nor automobile production as Ontario does. One can only make so much money on maple syrup. Their financial issues have nothing to do with language.

Quebec has hydro, which in fact it does not even pay taxes on relating to foreign hydro sales to the U.S. nor are those profits calculated for equalization payments. Quebec has many manufacturing facilities including Bombardier and the 'Space Agency' and more than its share of federal employment. Maybe you want all of Canada ,no?

Maybe if Quebec removes its language restrictions, it would be beneficial to their economy and subsequently attract major investment to that province.

If you kill equalization, Québec and Newfoundland will most likely separate, and the maritimes will starve. Not gonna happen.

Newfoundland and the Maritimes are not Quebec, but I think relocating the population to places of employment is the answer.

Quebec is another story. They have invited a doom a gloom economy, by their own hand, but nevertheless are existing quite nicely, thanks to the efforts of ROC almost having the same fiscal capacity as B.C. and Saskatchewan.

If a Prime Minister candidate were to announce that they wanted to "try to kick Quebec out of confederation or force Quebec to accept by policy to accept the English language", they would not get elected. I'm glad Canadian democracy wouldn't support your crazy ideas.

The point is what a corrupt PM can do 'after he or she is elected'.

Like what the Liberals have done with 'official multiculturalism', 'official languages' and the 'Charter', AFTER they were elected.

No other people have officially ruled Canada nor did they have a high enough concentration in one place.

When did Quebec ever rule Canada?

At the time the largest minorities after the Francophones were the Germans and the Italians, neither being large enough in numbers nor powerful enough in governance at the time.

That is a matter of opinion. If the Germans or Italians behaved in the same manner as Quebec's FLQ, demanding they receive the same rights as Quebec, they would more likely receive immediate federal attention to address their concerns.

Why the hell are we still going on about Québec anyway? ).

I dunno.

I guess it is you that keep coming back replying with controversial statements.

You think and respond very much like the author of this article:

http://english.republiquelibre.org/faq.html

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Religion was a major barrier, besides you cannot teach an old dog new tricks, resulting in the 'Quebec Act' 1774.

But this was the one of the main reason for the American Revolution as other Catholic English colonies felt cheated because Quebec received this type of special deal.

Cartholics are a minority in the USA. http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html I don't see where you're getting at.

The point is what a corrupt PM can do 'after he or she is elected'.

Like what the Liberals have done with 'official multiculturalism', 'official languages' and the 'Charter', AFTER they were elected.

Canada's official multiculturalism doesn't mean anything. The Charter of Rights is always good... then we have some fundamental rights in print. A Canadian Prime Minister would not try to kick Québec out of Canada once elected because it can't simply be done. A lot of paperwork would have to be done just to allow the possibility at the feds' end. Not gonna happen.

Quebec has hydro, which in fact it does not even pay taxes on relating to foreign hydro sales to the U.S. nor are those profits calculated for equalization payments. Quebec has many manufacturing facilities including Bombardier and the 'Space Agency' and more than its share of federal employment. Maybe you want all of Canada ,no?

Maybe if Quebec removes its language restrictions, it would be beneficial to their economy and subsequently attract major investment to that province.

Who's "you"? What do you care if Québec attracts more investment? They get much more investment than the maritimes and Newfoundland anyway.

When did Quebec ever rule Canada?

Québec never did, the French actually did under "New France".

I dunno.

I guess it is you that keep coming back replying with controversial statements.

You think and respond very much like the author of this article:

http://english.republiquelibre.org/faq.html

I honnestly don't care about Québec all that much. I've never lived in Québec and I don't agree with their socialism. I also don't really care to defend them, however due to the English's poor job at colonizing Canada we ended up as a country of two languages, so we might as well honor the institution the English have left us with.

If you're just gonna whine about Québec on your own thread about bilingual jobs outside of Québec, I'll let you continue trolling on this thread without me.

[Peter F]

jdg:

Everyone, I thought this whole controversy was settled on the Plains of Abraham.

One would think. But things rarely work out the way they're supposed to. After France chooses filthy rich Guadeloupe over Canada in 1763, the English colonists don't flock to Canada. The stories of Canada's horrid winters are widely beleived, 99% of its population is French and Catholic. Not particularly appealing when a prospective colonist can go to English protestant pleasant Virginia instead.

So Canada remained predominantly French. The Governor-Generals Murray and later Carlton are running the place peacefully enough but also know that with thier scant military resources, they do so at the sufferance of the French populace. Naturally they adopt a policy of appeasement. French civil law is not replaced with English Common Law, the Catholic Church remains unmolested. There is pressure from the American colonies to do the right thing and ban the Church and French. But neither Murray nor Carlton are prepared to bow to the American press.

As it so happens, GovGen Carlton is deeply concerned about the future of the American Colonies. As he sees it, rebellion is inevitable and considering the wealth and disenchanted population of those colonies, when rebellions does come Britain will be in very serious trouble. He is also intimatley aware of the animosity between the 'Americans' and the Canadians. When the rebellion breaks out Britain will need a secure base to conduct operations from. Carlton believes that secure base will be in Canada - particularly Quebec. But in order to ensure it remains secure the Canadians have to be assured that Britain will do them more good than the Americans. This is not hard to do since the Canadians despise the Americans and Vice-Versa.

As Governor General, his opinion matters much to the British parliament in London. So comes the Quebec Act of 1774 guaranteeing that the Church will not be meddled with, that French civil law will continue to function, and that French will be recognized in the courts and in the colonial administration.

So what was the expected result of the Battles of the Plains of Abraham and Sainte-Foy and Quiberon Bay do not come about at all. Political realities force the British to make sure that the British victory in the Seven Years War is pretty much just a flag raising ceremony to the Quebecois.

And so it goes. Until the advent of the railroad the only efficient means of accessing the interior of the American continent is via the rivers. The rivers accessing the interior all exit the interior via two rivers - The Mississippi and the St. Lawrence...and nothing exits the St.Lawrence without sailing under the guns of Quebec.

British colonial policy, until Confederation when it was no longer thier concern, required them to appease the French Canadians. and they did because they were smart.

So French is an official language in Canada. For that we can thank America and Geography.

[Leafless]

Cartholics are a minority in the USA. http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html I don't see where you're getting at.

What do Catholics being a minority in the U.S. have to do with anything? People in Quebec wanted to retain their Catholic religion and their French language.

You seem to think England did a rotten job trying to assimilate the people of Quebec when assimilation was only a suggestion at that time when in 1839 Lord Durham said " French were a people of no literature and no history and that they ought to be fully assimilated." Basically people in Quebec were refugees at that time.

Canada's official multiculturalism doesn't mean anything.

Liberals created 'Official Languages Act' the 'Official Multiculturalism Act', while in power and when written into the the 'Charter' ( which was created by the Liberals while in power), forms a powerful discriminating piece of legislation.

The Charter of Rights is always good...

No it is not always good. Parts are good but otherwise it is a racially discriminatory, social engineering piece of garbage.

A Canadian Prime Minister would not try to kick Québec out of Canada once elected because it can't simply be done.

A PM can hold a national referendum to establish whether or not Canada wishes to retain Quebec in confederation, after he or she as been elected.

Quebec holds separation referendums.

Who's "you"? What do you care if Québec attracts more investment? They get much more investment than the maritimes and Newfoundland anyway.

You have proven all through this thread that you are the Quebec and bilingual propagandist defender.

The reason I care if Quebec attracts more investment is because currently they are a 'have not province' and a excessive burden on Canadian tax payers and refuse to help themselves in the proper manner for fear of jeapordizing their politics and Quebec language which are currently being subsidized by the federal government to a very large degree to allow them to do this.

Québec never did, the French actually did under "New France".

So what makes Quebecers more special than other minority linguistic culture in a ' officially multicultural' Canada?

I honnestly don't care about Québec all that much. I've never lived in Québec and I don't agree with their socialism. I also don't really care to defend them, however due to the English's poor job at colonizing Canada we ended up as a country of two languages, so we might as well honor the institution the English have left us with.

The English could not do the proper job as there was no real country, just scattered colonies.

That was Canada's job and we all know what happened, don't we. Quebec wanted no part of it. they liked the 'Quebec Act' that the British gave them.

If you're just gonna whine about Québec on your own thread about bilingual jobs outside of Québec, I'll let you continue trolling on this thread without me.

Check back in the thread and you will see you are the trolling federal bilingual propagandist as well as defending Quebec and replying with controversial replies.

[jbg]

So French is an official language in Canada. For that we can thank America and Geography.

Not so fast!!! The American colonies were, to my knowlege, indistinguishable from "Canada" up untill the Rebellion started in 1774. The American colonies, including the ones now in "Canada" were more prosperous than mother England. Especially Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania and Virginia. For whatever reason, Massachusetts was "ground zero" for rebel sentiment, and the others were dragged along kicking and screaming.

I suspect that given the way British taxes worked, the bite was hardest there, and softer in Halifax. The ensuing Rebellion not only cost the Brits more money (that they didn't have) to fight; it also separated them from their cannon fodder, to wit, American colonists. Lieutenant Washington was a brave British fighter in the Seven Years War, after all. He did not, obviously, fight for the British in the Rebellion.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

What do Catholics being a minority in the U.S. have to do with anything? People in Quebec wanted to retain their Catholic religion and their French language.

You seem to think England did a rotten job trying to assimilate the people of Quebec when assimilation was only a suggestion at that time when in 1839 Lord Durham said " French were a people of no literature and no history and that they ought to be fully assimilated." Basically people in Quebec were refugees at that time.

If the English could have easily assimilated the Québecers, they probably would have. Claiming that assimilation was only a suggestion is like suggesting that raising one's flag upon colonization is just a suggestion... these are normally no-brainers upon acquiring a new colony.

Catholics being a minority in the USA made it easier for the English to maintain that in New England.

Liberals created 'Official Languages Act' the 'Official Multiculturalism Act', while in power and when written into the the 'Charter' ( which was created by the Liberals while in power), forms a powerful discriminating piece of legislation.

Declaring Canada officially multicultural is just to stop people from complaining about 'what' Canada is. It doesn't actually mean anything, it's just propaganda to make it seem like 'everything's ok'. Whether Canada were officially 'multicultural', 'bicultural', or not labeled by any of this nonsense, we'd still have the two official languages and a bunch of spiteful people.

No it is not always good. Parts are good but otherwise it is a racially discriminatory, social engineering piece of garbage.

The least you could do is actually quote the Charter and find where exactly to discriminatory stements stand. I read through it and couldn't find anything discriminatory. Please point out where these 'discriminatory statements' are.

A Canadian Prime Minister would not try to kick Québec out of Canada once elected because it can't simply be done.

A PM can hold a national referendum to establish whether or not Canada wishes to retain Quebec in confederation, after he or she as been elected.

Quebec holds separation referendums.

No politician in the world would ever hold a referendum on whether their country should keep a certain part or reject it from the nation. I guess to you, a good politician has never existed following this logic.

Who's "you"? What do you care if Québec attracts more investment? They get much more investment than the maritimes and Newfoundland anyway.

You have proven all through this thread that you are the Quebec and bilingual propagandist defender.

The reason I care if Quebec attracts more investment is because currently they are a 'have not province' and a excessive burden on Canadian tax payers and refuse to help themselves in the proper manner for fear of jeapordizing their politics and Quebec language which are currently being subsidized by the federal government to a very large degree to allow them to do this.

I'm just defending my fellow Canadians. Québecers are just like any other Canadians and tonnes of Anglophones outside Ontario and Alberta are living at the expense of Ontarians and Albertans through equalization aswell. French has survived in Canada so far, and it's not gonna die any time soon so you might as well get used to sharing your country with people of another language.

Québec never did, the French actually did under "New France".

So what makes Quebecers more special than other minority linguistic culture in a ' officially multicultural' Canada?

Not Québecers, but rather Francophones in general. They've been here longer than the Anglophones and have never been any less of a Canadian people than the Anglophones.

If were are to refer to Québecers, they ran their own services even under the English, so it's not about to change any time soon.

I honnestly don't care about Québec all that much. I've never lived in Québec and I don't agree with their socialism. I also don't really care to defend them, however due to the English's poor job at colonizing Canada we ended up as a country of two languages, so we might as well honor the institution the English have left us with.

The English could not do the proper job as there was no real country, just scattered colonies.

Yeah, but weren't all these colonies English at one point? The English could have properly colonized their colonies. They failed with Québec.

That was Canada's job and we all know what happened, don't we. Quebec wanted no part of it. they liked the 'Quebec Act' that the British gave them.

If you're just gonna whine about Québec on your own thread about bilingual jobs outside of Québec, I'll let you continue trolling on this thread without me.

Check back in the thread and you will see you are the trolling federal bilingual propagandist as well as defending Quebec and replying with controversial replies.

Controversial? You go on complaining about bilingual policies, and relating it to the people of one province. Canadian bilingualism is independant of Québec (the institution).

[Peter F]

Not so fast!!! The American colonies were, to my knowlege, indistinguishable from "Canada" up untill the Rebellion started in 1774. The American colonies, including the ones now in "Canada" were more prosperous than mother England. Especially Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania and Virginia. For whatever reason, Massachusetts was "ground zero" for rebel sentiment, and the others were dragged along kicking and screaming.

No, Canada was very distinguishable from the other colonies. Canada was very French, very Catholic and very (as David Bowie sang) scared of Americans.

I suspect that given the way British taxes worked, the bite was hardest there, and softer in Halifax.

I think the taxes were just as burdensome in Halifax and Canada as any other NA colony. The reason there wasn't 14 stars on Betsy Ross's flag was that the wealth of Nova Scotia was primarily derived from Royal Navy gold flowing into Halifax. For Nova Scotia that wealth took precedence over taxation. For Canada (ie ex-New France) fear of losing thier laws, society and faith took precedence over taxation. Thus the First Continental Congress doesn't include anyone from the Nova Scotia, and I'm not too sure that the other colonies were all that interested in accomodating the Catholic Church in Canada.

[Leafless]

If the English could have easily assimilated the Québecers, they probably would have. Claiming that assimilation was only a suggestion is like suggesting that raising one's flag upon colonization is just a suggestion... these are normally no-brainers upon acquiring a new colony.

Like mentioned previously the British did not really know what to do with Quebec.

It was only in 1839 Lord Durham declared French were a people of no literature and no history and they ought to be fully assimilated into English.

It should be remembered 1867 was not far away and when Quebec entered confederation with the 'Quebec Act', it never discarded it, meaning they were fully intent on keeping their Catholic religion and French language.

Usually, assimilation is done voluntarily to improve one's existence and lifestyle. Quebec never seen any sense in this and consequently relied on corrupt federal politics to advance Quebec's cultural ideologies, which in my estimation has destroyed Canada's political system.

Declaring Canada officially multicultural is just to stop people from complaining about 'what' Canada is. It doesn't actually mean anything, it's just propaganda to make it seem like 'everything's ok'. Whether Canada were officially 'multicultural', 'bicultural', or not labeled by any of this nonsense, we'd still have the two official languages and a bunch of spiteful people.

It is not propaganda, it is the worst kind of filthy corrupt federal politics.

The 'Official language Act' along with 'Official Multiculturalism' enforced by the Charter have effectively handed over the country of Canada to minority French Quebec with the political potential to control the entire country.

The least you could do is actually quote the Charter and find where exactly to discriminatory stements stand. I read through it and couldn't find anything discriminatory. Please point out where these 'discriminatory statements' are.

For an Ontarian your not very smart.

The main discriminatory section is Section-16, of the Charter is 'Official Languages of Canada'.

Section 16-(3) states-" Nothing in this charter limits the authority of Parliament or a legislature to advance the equality or status or the use of English or French." This is extremely discriminating and oppressing and has the potential with the right corrupt federal party to destroy the face of Canada, which as already been applied by the liberals with their 'Official Multicultural policy', Official Languages Act' and this very Charter.

Then we have Section-15, Equality Rights, that can be used in conjunction with Section-16 or new ethnic immigrants.

Then we have we have Section-7, Legal Rights which can be interpreted any which ways by parliament and the courts of the land.

Then we have minority language educational Rights, Section-23--- Sure, their is only one Quebec and the other nine provinces are supposed to accommodate minority Francophone's from a single small province, while Quebec linguistically discriminates against all others.

Mostly everything in the Charter is controversial and corrupt and makes Quebec winner by default.

Discussing the corrupt charter requires a thread of its own.

No politician in the world would ever hold a referendum on whether their country should keep a certain part or reject it from the nation.

Can you prove what you are asserting?

I guess to you, a good politician has never existed following this logic.

A good English speaking politician working for the interest of the majority---NO!

I'm just defending my fellow Canadians. Québecers are just like any other Canadians and tonnes of Anglophones outside Ontario and Alberta are living at the expense of Ontarians and Albertans through equalization as well.

Quebec and Quebecers are not like other Canadians. Quebec harbours more rights than any other province in Canada and Quebecers break the bank with equalization payment, not bad for a group of refugees initially with no rights.

BTW- You gave yourself away again that you are not English speaking but are a bilingual Francophone.

Several times you have used the word " tonnes" as an expression to describe a large quantity of people when "tonnes" refers to weight only. It can be used no other way. The word your looking for is 'tons', even though that is an unfamiliar way for English speaking Canadians to describe a large quantity.

French has survived in Canada so far, and it's not gonna die any time soon so you might as well get used to sharing your country with people of another language.

French is dead by my standards and if Canada would be smart, it would be dead by their standards also.

Not Québecers, but rather Francophones in general. They've been here longer than the Anglophones and have never been any less of a Canadian people than the Anglophones.

Again you speak as if it was the French who won on the 'Plains of Abraham'.

French had no rights period after that battle, they were refugees, dream on, hallucinate some more.

The English could have properly colonized their colonies. They failed with Québec.

They never tried and I really don't know why you keep bring this up as there was no organized country back then, just scattered colonies.

Anyways that became Canada's baby in 1867 and we are still confronted every day of the year , year after year, with the French Quebec problem.

Quebec should do the right thing, pay off Canada what they owe and separate.

[jbg]

Thus the First Continental Congress doesn't include anyone from the Nova Scotia, and I'm not too sure that the other colonies were all that interested in accomodating the Catholic Church in Canada.

Didn't NS have some observers at the First Continental Congress? I do know that Ben Franklin was in "Canada" shortly before the First Continental Congress meeting.

Interesting dissertation though. I didn't know that material.

[Leafless]

Thus the First Continental Congress doesn't include anyone from the Nova Scotia, and I'm not too sure that the other colonies were all that interested in accomodating the Catholic Church in Canada.

Didn't NS have some observers at the First Continental Congress? I do know that Ben Franklin was in "Canada" shortly before the First Continental Congress meeting.

Here are a couple of links relating to old Ben and the First Continental Congress.

http://www.andrewcusack.com/blog/2007/03/the_men_who_sav.php

http://www.sidis.net/TSChap17.htm

[BZBee]

Didn't NS have some observers at the First Continental Congress? I do know that Ben Franklin was in "Canada" shortly before the First Continental Congress meeting.

I don't think they did at either the first or second.....because they feared revenge not because they didn't have the will.

It's been many years people…I hope I remember my history correctly.

[Peter F]

Here are a couple of links relating to old Ben and the First Continental Congress.

http://www.andrewcusack.com/blog/2007/03/the_men_who_sav.php

http://www.sidis.net/TSChap17.htm

Thank you very much, Leafless, I have just ordered the book. Fresh thought on old things.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Like mentioned previously the British did not really know what to do with Quebec.

It was only in 1839 Lord Durham declared French were a people of no literature and no history and they ought to be fully assimilated into English.

It should be remembered 1867 was not far away and when Quebec entered confederation with the 'Quebec Act', it never discarded it, meaning they were fully intent on keeping their Catholic religion and French language.

Usually, assimilation is done voluntarily to improve one's existence and lifestyle. Quebec never seen any sense in this and consequently relied on corrupt federal politics to advance Quebec's cultural ideologies, which in my estimation has destroyed Canada's political system.

The British would have been stupid to not know 'what to do' with Québec.

Find me an example of a people (a group speaking the majority language of the locale, for instance French in QC) voluntarily choosing assimilation. To my knowledge, assimilation has always been forced. Please try to prove me wrong.

It is not propaganda, it is the worst kind of filthy corrupt federal politics.

The 'Official language Act' along with 'Official Multiculturalism' enforced by the Charter have effectively handed over the country of Canada to minority French Quebec with the political potential to control the entire country.

The feds would advance bilingualism even if it weren't for Canada being "Officially Multicultural". It's just propaganda and worded that way so people don't complain about Canada not including them.

For an Ontarian your not very smart.

The main discriminatory section is Section-16, of the Charter is 'Official Languages of Canada'.

Section 16-(3) states-" Nothing in this charter limits the authority of Parliament or a legislature to advance the equality or status or the use of English or French." This is extremely discriminating and oppressing and has the potential with the right corrupt federal party to destroy the face of Canada, which as already been applied by the liberals with their 'Official Multicultural policy', Official Languages Act' and this very Charter.

Then we have Section-15, Equality Rights, that can be used in conjunction with Section-16 or new ethnic immigrants.

Then we have we have Section-7, Legal Rights which can be interpreted any which ways by parliament and the courts of the land.

Then we have minority language educational Rights, Section-23--- Sure, their is only one Quebec and the other nine provinces are supposed to accommodate minority Francophone's from a single small province, while Quebec linguistically discriminates against all others.

Mostly everything in the Charter is controversial and corrupt and makes Quebec winner by default.

Discussing the corrupt charter requires a thread of its own.

Please, stop with the personal attacks. I will have to report you this time.

For section 16, advancing the use of official languages does not discriminate anyone nor any race. It is simply increasing the use of bilingualism for communication, which is a good thing.

Section 15, equal rights is the most anti-discriminating right we have in our country. You'd be nuts to suggest otherwise.

Section 7, right to life, liberty and security, see the comment I made about section 15.

Section 23, check section 23 ( 3 ). Where numbers are too small, section 23 is not applicable. The only way I can see this as discrimination is because it does not guarantee the right to study in the locale's minority language if neither of one's parents have studied in that language. It can still be done, but it's tricky.

By the way, Québec complies with all this anyway.

Can you prove what you are asserting?

Can you prove otherwise? The absence of counter-proof is enough proof for that statement (saying something never happend can only be assumed true until proved otherwise).

A good English speaking politician working for the interest of the majority---NO!

Fortunately the majority of Canadians don't agree with you.

Quebec and Quebecers are not like other Canadians. Quebec harbours more rights than any other province in Canada and Quebecers break the bank with equalization payment, not bad for a group of refugees initially with no rights.

BTW- You gave yourself away again that you are not English speaking but are a bilingual Francophone.

Several times you have used the word " tonnes" as an expression to describe a large quantity of people when "tonnes" refers to weight only. It can be used no other way. The word your looking for is 'tons', even though that is an unfamiliar way for English speaking Canadians to describe a large quantity.

Most provinces are a cost to equalization. Québec is like most of the provinces. They have their own charter which does not actually cause any problems.

You gave yourself away that you have skewed logic. You state that I am not English speaking, but rather a 'bilingual' Francophone (understood by 'bilingual' that I also speak English) meaning I am not English speaking yet English speaking. Yeah, makes great sense.

Thanks for correcting me.

It wouldn't be unfamiliar to English speaking Canadians because I learned English as a first language in Canada.

Not to mention the tons of mistakes you continuously make differentiating there/their/they're and a few others. I'll make sure to point them out next time I catch them. I could do the same and accuse you of not being a real Anglophone, but I'll save you the trouble and not sink down to your level.

French is dead by my standards and if Canada would be smart, it would be dead by their standards also.

Fortunately your standards don't matter to Canada and Canada is wise for not using your standards.

Again you speak as if it was the French who won on the 'Plains of Abraham'.

French had no rights period after that battle, they were refugees, dream on, hallucinate some more.

French? No, the French had no rights to Canada after that war.

They weren't refugees. To teach you some English, refugee means "An exile who flees for safety". The Québecers never fled. The Québecers were the inhabitants of the new colony. Besides, if the English don't do anything with their colony, it's just as good as not having acquired it yet.

They never tried and I really don't know why you keep bring this up as there was no organized country back then, just scattered colonies.

Anyways that became Canada's baby in 1867 and we are still confronted every day of the year , year after year, with the French Quebec problem.

Quebec should do the right thing, pay off Canada what they owe and separate.

You should do the right thing, brush up your business knowledge (if need be), learn French and become a consultant for companies in Québec.

[jbg]

Find me an example of a people (a group speaking the majority language of the locale, for instance French in QC) voluntarily choosing assimilation. To my knowledge, assimilation has always been forced. Please try to prove me wrong.

When Louisiana petitioned for admission to the United States, one of the conditions was that they adopt English as their official language. No one held a gun to Louisiana's head. They could have maintained territorial status, as Puerto Rico has (though now labeled "Commonwealth there is functionally no difference, except there is no customs barrier to US entry as there is with the US Virgin Islands).

For section 16, advancing the use of official languages does not discriminate anyone nor any race. It is simply increasing the use of bilingualism for communication, which is a good thing.

Do you mean that forcing me to talk in two languages at the same time is a good thing? Or is it better to turn a country into a Tower of Babel?

I can see this as discrimination is because it does not guarantee the right to study in the locale's minority language if neither of one's parents have studied in that language. It can still be done, but it's tricky.

Why, if an immigrant from, say, Italy, settles in Montreal, should they have to educate their children in gibberish, or some obsolete second language, when they're on a generally English-speaking Continent? Why should people have to handicap their children in that manner?

[Peter F]

When Louisiana petitioned for admission to the United States, one of the conditions was that they adopt English as their official language. No one held a gun to Louisiana's head. They could have maintained territorial status, as Puerto Rico has (though now labeled "Commonwealth there is functionally no difference, except there is no customs barrier to US entry as there is with the US Virgin Islands).

But, considering the circumstance of the day, they considered that a small price. The condition for admission in no way required them to stop speaking French or give up thier civil laws or religion. The USA was not requiring 'assimilation'. It never has.

Do you mean that forcing me to talk in two languages at the same time is a good thing? Or is it better to turn a country into a Tower of Babel?

Thats the thing. No Canadian is required to speak in two languages. No one in Louisianna is required to speak English. The governments of both the USofA and Canada allow for translators when necessary. The difference being in Canada you may communicate with functionaries of the Federal government in either English or French. This, of necessity, requires the Federal government to hire those who speak the minority language of a given area in order to supply the service. The government, to achieve efficiency, prefers to hire one bilingual employee at the point of contact, rather than one English speaker and one French speaker.

Why, if an immigrant from, say, Italy, settles in Montreal, should they have to educate their children in gibberish, or some obsolete second language, when they're on a generally English-speaking Continent? Why should people have to handicap their children in that manner?

French is neither Gibberish nor an obsolete second language. Should the state be required to fund the education of the children of the Italian immigrants in Italian? No. The default language of education in Quebec is French. Elsewhere in Canada its English. If the immigrants wish to have thier children learn English then they should fund such education themselves (home schooling is allowed - but of course French would be part of any curriculum) or immigrate to some other place other than Quebec.

[Leafless]

Find me an example of a people (a group speaking the majority language of the locale, for instance French in QC) voluntarily choosing assimilation. To my knowledge, assimilation has always been forced. Please try to prove me wrong.

I do not know what your talking about. Are you trying to tell me Quebecers live like citizens of France. If you are, for instance, I don't see very many Fiats or Citroen's being driven on Quebec streets nor do I see exclusive French films but rather dubbed or English Hollywood productions. I don't see many French fast food outlets but certainly see all the popular English Canadian and American chains. Technology wise is the same mostly all translated American technical manuals.

Any modern city in Quebec including the Outaouais, the French have been voluntarily assimilated to the English Canada-U.S. way of life (culture), including freely chosen bilingualism.

The only component of the French culture Francophone's chose not to be fully assimilated is the French language which they keep primarily as a political tool.

The feds would advance bilingualism even if it weren't for Canada being "Officially Multicultural". It's just propaganda and worded that way so people don't complain about Canada not including them.

For an Ontarian your not very smart.

Without 'official languages act' and 'official multiculturalism act' you would have no Charter supporting Quebec cultural ideologies.

Promotion would be definitely against individual constitutional rights, even more so that even with the imposed discriminatory Charter. The federal party who promoted bilingualism without some sort of official cause would be frowned upon by Canadians and never voted into power.

For section 16, advancing the use of official languages does not discriminate anyone nor any race. It is simply increasing the use of bilingualism for communication, which is a good thing.

They are not advancing it democratically.

They are forcing it on you when they have no right to do that.

The federal government of Canada must reflect views that democratically accommodates ALL Canadians and not just their BIASED view.

The main brunt of the Charter is to forcefully and unilaterally and undemocratically (federally speaking) give Quebec special status, when BOTH the 'Charlottetown Accord' and the 'Meach Lake Accord' FAILED to do exactly that.

Section 15, equal rights is the most anti-discriminating right we have in our country. You'd be nuts to suggest otherwise.

A single point.

A ethnic refugee stepping of the boat has the same rights as a native Canadian?

You would have to be nuttier than I, to accept that.

Section 7, right to life, liberty and security, see the comment I made about section 15.

This can or could be interpreted in court to allow criminals to break the law, including terrorist or could be helpful to remove the full impact of charges against an alleged criminal.

By the way, Québec complies with all this anyway.

Don't make dumb assertions, Quebec never even signed our Constitution.

Can you prove otherwise? The absence of counter-proof is enough proof for that statement (saying something never happened can only be assumed true until proved otherwise).

Did the federal government send in the troops to stop Quebec from holding a referendum on separation????

Oh, I know. Nobody can stop Quebec from doing anything, but it would be unthinkable for a PM to implement a national referendum to boot troublesome, unity busting Quebec, out of confederation.

This is how many civil wars are started.

When the government does not do the right thing initially but rather buy time with 'official languages' and 'official multiculturalism' and the Charter (as is the case with Canada) and then sits back and wonder why all hell breaks loose.

Fortunately the majority of Canadians don't agree with you.

How would you know.

The federal government never offered that opportunity to Canadians in the way of a national referendum, to see how Canadians actually felt

You gave yourself away that you have skewed logic. You state that I am not English speaking, but rather a 'bilingual' Francophone (understood by 'bilingual' that I also speak English) meaning I am not English speaking yet English speaking. Yeah, makes great sense.

Thanks for correcting me.

Being able to partially communicate in English does not make one proficient in English, unless you are PERFECTLY BILINGUAL, which few Francophone's are.

They weren't refugees. To teach you some English, refugee means "An exile who flees for safety". The Québecers never fled.

My hardcover Oxford dictionary says, pertaining to refugee: " a person taking refuge, esp. in a foreign country from war or persecution or natural disaster."