lukin Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 Remember the crisis we were warned about in the mid 70s. The sky was also falling in 1975. The scenario then is slightly different than the doomsday scenario we presently have to stomach. http://denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm Quote
RNG Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 The first time I ever heard the name David Suzuki was in the '70's I think where he was warning us that we were all going to freeze to death because of particulates in the atmosphere. Guess he was wrong there too. My famous story. Chemists at UCLA showed that Los Angeles smog contained hydrocarbons. It had previously been shown without a doubt that the smog was directly related to motor vehicles. Smog was a big problem in LA at the time. So the US government passed a quick, kneejerk law that harshly limited hydrocarbon emissions of vehicles. This was about 1973, I believe. So the new cars come out and the smog problem in LA skyrockets. A little knowledge is dangerous. Yes, the smog contained a hydrocarbon tail. But every blade of grass, every leaf, every living critter on the face of the earth gave out these hydrocarbons. Here is the kicker. To cut down the hydrocarbons, the auto industry went to lean-burn engines. More air, less gas. The problem, as any mechanic will tell you is that lean-burn engines run very hot. When a car engine runs hotter, the high temp and pressure causes more NOX to be formed and emitted. And then the chemists found out that the NOX when hit by sunlight acted like a catalyst to form the smog. More NOX means more smog. So two years later the government in it's infinite wisdom legislated NOX limits and relaxed the hydrocarbon limits. Meanwhile, the auto industry had to do it's second major re-tool in two years. What a waste of money. Sucks to be you if you bought a car at any time then or shortly after, because you were paying a huge stupid tax. So be careful. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
wyly Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 You seem to be quite proud that you went to Holland this past summer, as you keep mentioning useless details of your trip. I'm very impressed that you went to Europe. I've never met anyone who has gone to Europe before. You're a champ. Jets produce a fair bit of DEADLY carbon. Maybe people like you should think about the plight of our fragile planet before filling the atmosphere with unnecessary carbon. Practice what you preach buddy. :lol: ad hominem attacks always the method of those who are scientifically clueless...come on genius answer one of the questions I asked the chemistry expert RNG?... I think I'll be waiting a very long time... you best find a thread where knowledge is optional you're out of your depth here... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) Remember the famed hockey stick graph which was supposed to prove that human emitted carbon is causing global warming, I mean climate change? Well Dr. Edward Wegman proved how fallacious that theory was. wegman hasn't done a peer reviewed report...the hockey stick has been duplicated over and over by other studies confirming it's validity...despite any errors Mann may have made the graph holds true..Then we were told human habits would cause more, and more severe hurricanes. The sheep believed this as fact. Then Dr. Christopher Landsea proved how ridiculous that theory was.actually he proved nothing, in fact he agrees global warming will affect the oceans and hurricanes he only questions the degree to which it effects weather... science comprehension is not your strong point...Then we were told that Antarctic icecap was rapidly melting. Then common sense, and Dr. Duncan Wingham proved that theory wrong.you were told by the media and YOU believed it because you're not very smart...Wingham absolutely backs up global warming as fact...the projections were the Arctic would melt before the Antarctic and that has proven true...The AGW scientists have been given big bucks to tell the world, not prove, that human emitted carbon is causing climate change. The media jumped on board, and most sheeple fell in ,line believing that humans are causing global warming. really, ok genius then have the balls to answer the simple questions that RNG refuses to answer - a mixture of gases has it's own unique properties according to the percentage of each gas in the makeup of the mixture??? true or false -if you change the ratio of the gases in the mixture you change it's properties???true or false put up or shut up genius... and just because you love them so much here's two more Edited September 30, 2010 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
wyly Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 The first time I ever heard the name David Suzuki was in the '70's I think where he was warning us that we were all going to freeze to death because of particulates in the atmosphere. Guess he was wrong there too. then you'll have no problem finding a link to that little known Suzuki fact... I expect you'll dodge that question too Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
RNG Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 then you'll have no problem finding a link to that little known Suzuki fact... I expect you'll dodge that question too Not sure if this here interwebz thingy carries data from that far back, but I am about to bust a gut to prove you wrong. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
wyly Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 Not sure if this here interwebz thingy carries data from that far back, but I am about to bust a gut to prove you wrong. prove me wrong? I asked you to verify a wild accusation... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
RNG Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) http://wapedia.mobi/en/Global_cooling?t=4. Best I could do. It doesn't nail his butt to this cross but trust me, he was there. And I suppose you don't remember Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring"? Edited September 30, 2010 by RNG Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
wyly Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 http://wapedia.mobi/en/Global_cooling?t=4. Best I could do. It doesn't nail his butt to this cross but trust me, he was there. And I suppose you don't remember Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring"? he wasn't there...verify it or withdraw it... at no time was a cooling earth the predominant thought on climate change...even in the 60's or 70's...public hysteria over a couple of magazine articles, even at that time a warming planet was the dominant view... but the idea of a warming planet wasn't very exciting or newsworthy to a scientifically illiterate media and public.. never heard of Rachel Carson, and what does she have to do with Suzuki? Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
RNG Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 he wasn't there...verify it or withdraw it... at no time was a cooling earth the predominant thought on climate change...even in the 60's or 70's...public hysteria over a couple of magazine articles, even at that time a warming planet was the dominant view... but the idea of a warming planet wasn't very exciting or newsworthy to a scientifically illiterate media and public.. never heard of Rachel Carson, and what does she have to do with Suzuki? I'm not withdrawing, i may have to actually go to a real library and get real paper shit, scan it and then post the pdf's, but I'm right on this one. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
lukin Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 Wyly, you can't prove anything, no matter how arrogant you become. AGW is a load of BS, just like global cooling was a load of BS. However, you are free to believe what you want...no matter how wrong it may be. Please answer for me how you personally, Mrs. Wyly, has changed her life to save our planet? What are some of the measures you have taken to help the survival of this planet? Quote
Wild Bill Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 I'm not withdrawing, i may have to actually go to a real library and get real paper shit, scan it and then post the pdf's, but I'm right on this one. I'm with you on this one! Wyly has just 100% contradicted my own personal experience from living through those years and also having always been a science buff! One of the problems of the Internet age is that often there are no cites available pre-mid 90's or so. Some folks seem to believe that there was no history before that time. Certainly, they don't seem to have ever actually read a book or two on a given topic! Maybe those of us with reasonably good personal libraries should start using footnotes. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Keepitsimple Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 (edited) I'm not withdrawing, i may have to actually go to a real library and get real paper shit, scan it and then post the pdf's, but I'm right on this one. This article has a lot of those quotes.....the youngsters on this site would be wise to read through it in it's entirety: http://www.masterresource.org/2009/09/the-global-cooling-scare-revisited/ Or how about Leonard Nimoy's old program "In Search of".....here's his program on the coming Ice Age: http://www.minnesotansforglobalwarming.com/m4gw/2009/09/unearthed-video-global-warming-alarmist-warned-of-ice-age-in-1970s.html Or how about this one - extracted articles from the New York Times - showing warming and cooling predictions over the last 150 years. http://newsbusters.org/node/11640 Edited September 30, 2010 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
Saipan Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 he wasn't there...verify it or withdraw it... at no time was a cooling earth the predominant thought on climate change... As much panic as today with "global warming" I still remember the animation on TV showing how will the ice move South, deeper on the Atlantic Coast, then Central. The Florida swamps were selling like hotcakes. Anything to escape the new Ice Age. Multiplied by "Energy Crises" as the Midwest rivers froze for the "first time" and barges couldn't transport heating fuel [it's always "first time" and "unprecedented" to give the panic full weight]. Scientists predicting we "will be out of oil by mid 80's"!!!! Now it's global warm up. And we all gonna die unless we do some kind of rain dance real quick. It was human sacrifice, then animal sacrifice, now economic sacrifice. Not much changed really. Quote
RNG Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 he wasn't there...verify it or withdraw it... at no time was a cooling earth the predominant thought on climate change...even in the 60's or 70's...public hysteria over a couple of magazine articles, even at that time a warming planet was the dominant view... but the idea of a warming planet wasn't very exciting or newsworthy to a scientifically illiterate media and public.. never heard of Rachel Carson, and what does she have to do with Suzuki? Been busy but here you are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
waldo Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 at no time was a cooling earth the predominant thought on climate change...even in the 60's or 70's...public hysteria over a couple of magazine articles, even at that time a warming planet was the dominant view... but the idea of a warming planet wasn't very exciting or newsworthy to a scientifically illiterate media and public...Been busy but here you are.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling wyly, yet again? We've dealt with this 70's global cooling nonsense previously in other MLW threads... I note the usual suspects have lined up again to attempt to continue to foster this media perpetrated myth. Once more with vinegar, here's the Peterson et al paper that most authoritatively speaks to what scientists of the 70's were (not)saying/(not)writing about global cooling: An enduring popular myth suggests that in the 1970s the climate science community was predicting “global cooling” and an “imminent” ice age, an observation frequently used by those who would undermine what climate scientists say today about the prospect of global warming.A review of the literature suggests that, to the contrary, greenhouse warming even then dominated scientists’ thinking about the most important forces shaping Earth’s climate on human time scales. More importantly than showing the falsehood of the myth, this review shows the important way scientists of the time built the foundation on which the cohesive enterprise of modern climate science now rests. Quote
RNG Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 wyly, yet again? We've dealt with this 70's global cooling nonsense previously in other MLW threads... I note the usual suspects have lined up again to attempt to continue to foster this media perpetrated myth. Once more with vinegar, here's the Peterson et al paper that most authoritatively speaks to what scientists of the 70's were (not)saying/(not)writing about global cooling: The Wiki article does admit that the scientific community wasn't solidly behind it, but it was sensationalized in the MSM of the time as Wiki says. Just as I think the media are sensationalizing things now. That's how they make their money. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
waldo Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 Remember the famed hockey stick graph which was supposed to prove that human emitted carbon is causing global warming, I mean climate change? Well Dr. Edward Wegman proved how fallacious that theory was. it's bad enough deniers never reconciled with the NAS report findings... that they continually attempted to leverage what they thought the Wegman Report actually stated. Obviously the denialsphere has extreme difficulty with the recent months worth of investigative work that's helped to uncover the bias, distortion, manipulation and outright plagiarism within the Wegman Report. I expect we'll continue to see the fallout as it works it's way ultimately to those who attempted to leverage that report within the U.S. Congress (paging Joe Barton, paging Joe Barton)... notwithstanding, of course, the absolute faith the so-called 'slayer of hockey-sticks', McIntyre has placed in, "all that is Wegman" John Mashey on Strange Scholarship in the Wegman Report Wegman report update, part 2: GMU dissertation review Wegman Report update, part 1: More dubious scholarship in full colour Quote
waldo Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 The Wiki article does admit that the scientific community wasn't solidly behind it, but it was sensationalized in the MSM of the time as Wiki says. Just as I think the media are sensationalizing things now. That's how they make their money. and your personal attribution to that media perpetuated 70's global cooling myth... would be... what? Quote
RNG Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 and your personal attribution to that media perpetuated 70's global cooling myth... would be... what? I'm not sure exactly what you are asking. As I said, then, the media made money by sensationalizing things. Now, the media, some scientists and Al Gore make money by sensationalizing things. Is global warming happening? Probably. Is it due to man's presence? Possibly. Is CO2 the major baddy? I think the jury is out. As I have said before, I want to see water vapor and cloud cover included in the computer models used for the conclusions the IPCC types issue. I want a better understanding of the potential magnitude of the threat before policies are instituted that cause major economic disruptions. CO2 is bad for oceans. No question, but again, how bad how soon? Renewable energy sources need nurturing for all our good, including that of the economy as oil, a dwindling resource becomes more and more expensive. But over-reactions can be worse than laise faire in some cases. Quote The government can't give anything to anyone without having first taken it from someone else.
Michael Hardner Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 http://wapedia.mobi/en/Global_cooling?t=4. Best I could do. It doesn't nail his butt to this cross but trust me, he was there. I imagine if he were pushing for 'global cooling', we would have evidence and would have heard of it by now. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 I'm with you on this one! Wyly has just 100% contradicted my own personal experience from living through those years and also having always been a science buff! One of the problems of the Internet age is that often there are no cites available pre-mid 90's or so. Some folks seem to believe that there was no history before that time. Certainly, they don't seem to have ever actually read a book or two on a given topic! Maybe those of us with reasonably good personal libraries should start using footnotes. Yes, that's fair. Give us a book or newspaper article, with date and author, indicating Dr. Suzuki was pushing global cooling. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
waldo Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 about that continued right-wing (Republican) war on science... John McCain... while helping to campaign for the upcoming mid-term elections: (apparently, something has happened to what was McCain's previous acceptance and policy advocacy... sort of what's happened to other high profile Republicans in recent months. Can you say tea-party... sure you can!) McCain: Climate Science Is 'Flawed By Outside Influences' Quote
wyly Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 Been busy but here you are. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling nothing there but confirmation of what I've already told you...all you have verified is that you bought into media hysteria in regards to global cooling, that isn't evidence of anything except your gullibility, don't hold the scientific community responsible for your perception...I didn't buy into the cooling panic because I had great teachers at the time that understood science and it was discussed not as a fact but an interesting hypothesis...a wee bit of research by you will show that a cooling planet had very little support in science world despite media suggestions otherwise... and I still see no reference to Suzuki claiming there was a cooling trend... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Michael Hardner Posted September 30, 2010 Report Posted September 30, 2010 The Wiki article does admit that the scientific community wasn't solidly behind it, but it was sensationalized in the MSM of the time as Wiki says. Just as I think the media are sensationalizing things now. That's how they make their money. The 'Ice Age' scare is one of the weakest planks that extreme skeptics, read deniers, have in their arguments... it's been disproven time and time again... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
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