Canadian Arabs, Muslims threaten to campaign against Tories

[Leafless]

" Following Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay's first Middle East tour, Canadian Arabs and Muslims are threatening to campaign against the Conservative government in the next federal election because of it what is says is a continued pro-Israeli stand."

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...d3ca422&k=16387

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What is happening to Canada?

It seems Canadian politics is being transformed into 'cultural concerns showdown' that affect federal politics that in turn determine a federal party fortune.

[BC_chick]

" Following Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay's first Middle East tour, Canadian Arabs and Muslims are threatening to campaign against the Conservative government in the next federal election because of it what is says is a continued pro-Israeli stand."

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...d3ca422&k=16387

---------------------------------------------------------------

What is happening to Canada?

It seems Canadian politics is being transformed into 'cultural concerns showdown' that affect federal politics that in turn determine a federal party fortune.

I don't like to see Muslim-Canadians put foreign policy ahead of domestic issues any more than I like seeing Canadian-Jews putting Israel ahead of their own domestics convictions by jumping on the Conservative bandwagon after being life-long Liberals. But, there is something seriously flawed about Harper's support of Israel....

On the one hand, he criticises China's human-rights abuses and claims that China's economic advantages for our country do not outweigh turning a blind-eye to the breaches of human-rights. Then on the other hand, he doesn't say anything about American breaches of human-rights in places like Abu-Ghraib and Gitmo - I suppose in this case, economic ties seem to play a crucial role in turning a blind-eye to human-rights. Then there's Israel which is in a class of its own. Harper is willing to overlook their human-rights abuses AND there is nothing, absolutely nothing, to be gained in supporting them. In fact, this support endagers Canada if anything.

IOW, in the case of the US, we overlook breaches but we get something out of it. In the case of China, we forego economic advantages in order to to stand on principal. But in the case of Israel, we get nothing in return yet we endager our country by showing support.

Does that make sense?

[M.Dancer]

Oh My Goodness Gracious...Muslims, Canadian Muslims! Using the democratic process!

What's next? Akbar and Jeff Yelling Arrrrrrgoooooos at the Grey Cup?

[Fortunata]

I wonder how long it will before Harper or the blinded-by-the-Harperlites accuses the Liberals of being pro-terrorism, something like Martin was pro child pornography?

[M.Dancer]

It seems Canadian politics is being transformed into 'cultural concerns showdown' that affect federal politics that in turn determine a federal party fortune.

Cutural concerns?

What? Like promising a free vote on Gay Marriage? That ain't a cultural concern? How about the needless spectre of reopening the abortion debate?

[madmax]

" Following Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay's first Middle East tour, Canadian Arabs and Muslims are threatening to campaign against the Conservative government in the next federal election

Seems Mckay hasn't wanted to meet the Arab Federation or the Islamic Congress, so they are ticked. I don't understand the problem, they can see Wajid Khan anytime:P

[Leafless]

It seems Canadian politics is being transformed into 'cultural concerns showdown' that affect federal politics that in turn determine a federal party fortune.

Cultural concerns?

What? Like promising a free vote on Gay Marriage? That ain't a cultural concern? How about the needless spectre of reopening the abortion debate?

What is cultural about sexual orientation or the abortion debate?

Answer: Nothing.

It seems minority groups in Canada are pressuring for federal attention based on cultural aspects, originating primarily from language and religion.

This of course is not the primary importance of the federal government to compete for votes based on foreign cultures political aspirations and could create a whole new dimension in Canadian politics including the possible destruction and collapse of federalism.

[Leafless]

Does that make sense?

No.

It appears you know nothing what Western values are or for that matter what Canadian political interest are.

[BC_chick]

Does that make sense?

No.

It appears you know nothing what Western values are or for that matter what Canadian political interest are.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion. But given that your opinion of me is not the reason I came to this forum, perhaps next time you may try rebutting what I say instead.

[Leafless]

Does that make sense?

No.

It appears you know nothing what Western values are or for that matter what Canadian political interest are.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion. But given that your opinion of me is not the reason I came to this forum, perhaps next time you may try rebutting what I say instead.

How can I refute something that I consider is totally un-Canadian and anti-Western?

Perhaps someone else will refute what you posted.

[BC_chick]

How can I refute something that I consider is totally un-Canadian and anti-Western?

Un-Canadian, please, more like un-Leafless (which btw you may consider that for me is un-Canadian, lol).

Fortunately for both of us though, our opinion of each other's Canadian-ness is not the issue here.

You don't know where to start with the rebuttals, here, I'll help....

Is it not true not China could serve as an economic benefit for Canada but Harper decided that speaking out against their human-rights was more important?

Is it not true that the US has broken human rights in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib but for some reason Harper does not feel it so necessary to speak out against those human rights?

Is it not true that Israel serves absolutely no economic advantage to Canada, and its unquestioning support may in fact endanger Canada, yet Harper does not speak out against the human-rights of Israel in the same manner he does for its enemies?

[M.Dancer]

It seems Canadian politics is being transformed into 'cultural concerns showdown' that affect federal politics that in turn determine a federal party fortune.

Cultural concerns?

What? Like promising a free vote on Gay Marriage? That ain't a cultural concern? How about the needless spectre of reopening the abortion debate?

What is cultural about sexual orientation or the abortion debate?

In our culture, gays are accepted more readily than in the islamioc world. Gay marriage is part of our evolving culture. Something that some are lobbying the Gov't to stop because they are concerned about it.

[Leafless]

How can I refute something that I consider is totally un-Canadian and anti-Western?

Un-Canadian, please, more like un-Leafless (which btw you may consider that for me is un-Canadian, lol).

Fortunately for both of us though, our opinion of each other's Canadian-ness is not the issue here.

You don't know where to start with the rebuttals, here, I'll help....

Is it not true not China could serve as an economic benefit for Canada but Harper decided that speaking out against their human-rights was more important?

Is it not true that the US has broken human rights in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib but for some reason Harper does not feel it so necessary to speak out against those human rights?

Is it not true that Israel serves absolutely no economic advantage to Canada, and its unquestioning support may in fact endanger Canada, yet Harper does not speak out against the human-rights of Israel in the same manner he does for its enemies?

Like I said , you do not speak for the capitalistic ideologies that guide the Western world and serve as a base for its interest.

I cannot refute anything in your post with an individual as anti-Western as you are.

It would be totally illogical to do so.

[Saturn]

Like I said , you do not speak for the capitalistic ideologies that guide the Western world and serve as a base for its interest.

I cannot refute anything in your post with an individual as anti-Western as you are.

It would be totally illogical to do so.

Conservatives are hilarious. First they criticize the Liberals for claiming ownership of Canadian values and next they call people who disagree with them "anti-western" and "un-canadian". Sorry, I was not aware that disapproving of human rights abuses and discouraging actions that put Canadians in danger makes me "un-canadian".

[BC_chick]

How can I refute something that I consider is totally un-Canadian and anti-Western?

Un-Canadian, please, more like un-Leafless (which btw you may consider that for me is un-Canadian, lol).

Fortunately for both of us though, our opinion of each other's Canadian-ness is not the issue here.

You don't know where to start with the rebuttals, here, I'll help....

Is it not true not China could serve as an economic benefit for Canada but Harper decided that speaking out against their human-rights was more important?

Is it not true that the US has broken human rights in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib but for some reason Harper does not feel it so necessary to speak out against those human rights?

Is it not true that Israel serves absolutely no economic advantage to Canada, and its unquestioning support may in fact endanger Canada, yet Harper does not speak out against the human-rights of Israel in the same manner he does for its enemies?

Like I said , you do not speak for the capitalistic ideologies that guide the Western world and serve as a base for its interest.

I cannot refute anything in your post with an individual as anti-Western as you are.

It would be totally illogical to do so.

Fair enough Leafless. But from now on when you notice that I don't respond to any of your posts even when they are directed at me, I want you to understand why - I don't discuss issues with people who think of ad hominem attacks as rebuttals even after provide an outline for them.

[kimmy]

As I understand things, Canada's Muslim community is about twice the size of Canada's Jewish community, so on the surface this would seem like a disadvantage to the Conservatives.

However, I can't help but wonder how voters who are in neither camp will respond if the Muslim community starts taking an active role in campaigning. I believe that Canadians find anti-Semitism to be revulsive, and the Muslims will have to walk a fine line in this to avoid appearing anti-Semetic. Considering how often Muslim leaders have put their foot in their mouths regarding Israel, it probably wouldn't take much effort to make an "opposition to pro-Israel policies" stance look like an anti-Semetic stance.

-k

[Argus]

I wonder how long it will before Harper or the blinded-by-the-Harperlites accuses the Liberals of being pro-terrorism, something like Martin was pro child pornography?

Martin certainly wasn't against terrorism.

[Argus]

As I understand things, Canada's Muslim community is about twice the size of Canada's Jewish community, so on the surface this would seem like a disadvantage to the Conservatives.

However, I can't help but wonder how voters who are in neither camp will respond if the Muslim community starts taking an active role in campaigning. I believe that Canadians find anti-Semitism to be revulsive, and the Muslims will have to walk a fine line in this to avoid appearing anti-Semetic. Considering how often Muslim leaders have put their foot in their mouths regarding Israel, it probably wouldn't take much effort to make an "opposition to pro-Israel policies" stance look like an anti-Semetic stance.

-k

Given that most Muslims have what would be considered in Canada bigoted, if not virulently bigoted views about Jews that shouldn't be too difficult.

[Argus]

It seems Canadian politics is being transformed into 'cultural concerns showdown' that affect federal politics that in turn determine a federal party fortune.

Cutural concerns?

What? Like promising a free vote on Gay Marriage? That ain't a cultural concern? How about the needless spectre of reopening the abortion debate?

And how do you think the Muslim community is going to campaign on those issues?

[Argus]

Is it not true not China could serve as an economic benefit for Canada but Harper decided that speaking out against their human-rights was more important?

I see little economic benefits coming from China. China does not buy many manufactured items abroad. It insists they be made there, and profits kept there. The raw materials it wants are generally raw materials we can sell to anyone - and do. And it's not like they're offering extra money than we can get from anyone else.

Furthermore I do not trust Chinese investment in Canada. Unlike any other nation, all Chinese companies are owned by the government, and serve the government's interests. And the interests of the Chinese Communist government seldom coincide with those of Canada.

Is it not true that the US has broken human rights in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib but for some reason Harper does not feel it so necessary to speak out against those human rights?

I find the obsession of the trendy left with Gitmo and the like to be revealing. The human rights violations of nations like China and Iran are a thousand times worse, and far more severe, more vicious, more cruel. Yet you ignore them utterly. Furthermore, all those at Gitmo are there for terrorist related offenses. Most of those butchered by the Chinese government or languishing in their forced labour camps are innocent people.

Is it not true that Israel serves absolutely no economic advantage to Canada, and its unquestioning support may in fact endanger Canada, yet Harper does not speak out against the human-rights of Israel in the same manner he does for its enemies?

Israel is a moral cause. Supporting Israel is supporting democracy and freedom. Those who oppose Israel on the side of religious fanatics are opposed to democracy and freedom.

Simplistic? Yet true. It's funny that some of the same people who say there is no chance of democracy in the middle east, referring to the likes of Iraq or Afghanistan, will then somehow imagine that if Israel disappeared Palestine would become a beacon of freedom to the world.

Get real.

Exit Israel, and Palestine becomes another Syria, where anyone who dares protest the government's corruption or incompetence goes into a meat shredder - along with their families.

I liken it to Rhodesia. Oh how the left rejoiced when Rhodesia was "FREEEEEEE!"

Now Zimbabwe is one of the world's deepest shit-holes, in every way worse than it was under the White apartheid government, with more and worse human rights violations, and more and deeper poverty. An independent Palestine will be the same.

[Catchme]

I wonder how long it will before Harper or the blinded-by-the-Harperlites accuses the Liberals of being pro-terrorism, something like Martin was pro child pornography?

Martin certainly wasn't against terrorism.

It took 3 hrs and 31 minutes Fortunata. No too shabby, I thought longer!

It would be hoped that the Muslim community would campaign against the CPC, MacKay's actions and comments were reprehensible while in Israel, as well as Harper telling Peter to say his government backs Israel unequivocally. Not only that Harper's and Ablonzy public stance on Arar and basically broad brushing Muslims into all being terrorists are more than enough reason to campaign against the CPC alone, let alone the latest faux pas in foreign relations.

[scribblet]

Get real.

Exit Israel, and Palestine becomes another Syria, where anyone who dares protest the government's corruption or incompetence goes into a meat shredder - along with their families.

I liken it to Rhodesia. Oh how the left rejoiced when Rhodesia was "FREEEEEEE!"

Now Zimbabwe is one of the world's deepest shit-holes, in every way worse than it was under the White apartheid government, with more and worse human rights violations, and more and deeper poverty. An independent Palestine will be the same.

Indeed. If the Muslims wish to protest gov't policy its their right, but it could backfire on them; not too many people are totally blind to why they don't want support for Israel and what his agenda really is.

Isn't Mouammar the same guy who was denouncing Bob Rae for supporting the "daily massacre in Palestine" and having a Jewish wife at the Liberal convention.

I have to wonder why the left really hates Israel, maybe they just don't like "uppity Jews" (sarcasm here)

[geoffrey]

Martin wanted to join the invasion of Iraq.

You'd have an argument with Chretien, but I think Martin was against terorrism.

[Argus]

I wonder how long it will before Harper or the blinded-by-the-Harperlites accuses the Liberals of being pro-terrorism, something like Martin was pro child pornography?

Martin certainly wasn't against terrorism.

It took 3 hrs and 31 minutes Fortunata. No too shabby, I thought longer!

Paul Martin was the keynote speaker at a terrorist fund raising dinner for the Tamil Tigers. He had been warned ahead of time by CSIS, Foreign Affairs, and the US that the group he was to speak to was merely a front of the Tamil Tigers, and he ignored them, and then jeered and laughed at the Reform party in the House when they asked him why he went.

He went because the dinner represented an opportunity to score points with the Tamil community. That he was helping to raise funds to blow up children was obviously irrelevant to him. Like all present Liberal leaders his only concern was for himself.

He abolished the Ports Police, and repeatedly slashed funding for the military, for CSIS, for the RCMP, and Customs.

[Saturn]

As I understand things, Canada's Muslim community is about twice the size of Canada's Jewish community, so on the surface this would seem like a disadvantage to the Conservatives.

But the Jewish community has 100 times the resources the Muslim community does and the Jewish community owns most of the media in Canada. Clearly being to the Jews good side would be much more beneficial to the Conservatives than being on the Muslims' side or being neutral.