The second highest cabinet position after the prime Minister?

[Topaz]

I'm sitting' here reflecting how Harper fought everyday to take out Martins' government when he was in opposition and how he wanted to be PM sooooooooooo bad. Well, now he has half-as* power, the Liberals have treated Harper alot better than Harper did them. Harper says he likes being PM and hopes to stay in as such. Guess what Harper, so did the rest of the PMs, especially Martin. Please bring the election soon and get it over with so Canadians can get on with a PM that's thinks of them and not of "himself"! I 'm ready for an election, and that is how Harper will be replaced!

[Ricki Bobbi]

Well, now he has half-as* power, the Liberals have treated Harper alot better than Harper did them.

The Liberals have been routinely referred to as an ineffective oppostion under Bill Graham.

So is not doing their job properly what you mean by the Liberals treaing Harper well?

[Canadian Blue]

Oh come now, we Canadians, are not silly enough to believe that Harper does not have a back up Prime Minister for Canada, should something happen to him, because he wants to save us a couple hundred thousand. He couldn't give a damn about 200k, but he does not share limelight/title, or power. We know the CPC is top down, not grassroots.

How embarassing for us on the world stage, should something happen in the world major happen, and Harper is out of touch, but Canada or Canadians are part of it.

I can just hear it from BBC, CNN or even Fox News announcers:

"Now on behalf of Canada we have the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, Jim Prentice? Mr Prentice, where is your Prime Minister, or Deputy Prime Minister that they can't speak on this very serious threat to canadians and Canada?" What you do not know where the Prime Minsiter is and you have no second in command?"

"Well Mr Prentice in the days coming, just who will be giving signals to other world leaders on what is transpiring, or what directing Canada and Canadians on what they are going to do?"

My goodness he has turned us into a Banana Republic has he not?

Every successful party is topdown catchme, get over yourself. Tone down on the rhetoric too, Harper isn't running this government that much differently from Chretien.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Every successful party is topdown catchme, get over yourself. Tone down on the rhetoric too, Harper isn't running this government that much differently from Chretien.

Shhh CB. Catchme is here to vent and attack.

Your logic and rationality aren't welcome.

[Argus]

I'm sitting' here reflecting how Harper fought everyday to take out Martins' government when he was in opposition and how he wanted to be PM sooooooooooo bad. Well, now he has half-as* power, the Liberals have treated Harper alot better than Harper did them. Harper says he likes being PM and hopes to stay in as such. Guess what Harper, so did the rest of the PMs, especially Martin. Please bring the election soon and get it over with so Canadians can get on with a PM that's thinks of them and not of "himself"! I 'm ready for an election, and that is how Harper will be replaced!

Did you have _any_ comment which related in any way, shape or form to what was being discussed, or did you just want to spew out yet another mindless anti-Harper whine?

[Catchme]

And why was that again, that we do not have a Deputy Prime Minister?

There never was a formal position of "deputy prime minister". That is a fictional "honourary" position created by the Liberals. The parliamentary system never really had any need for such a position. But it certainly went well with the Liberals' "style over substance" way of governing.

..if something serious happened to Harper, the Tory caucus would simply elect another leader. I'm not sure if their party constitution would then require confirmation from the rank and file membership or not.

In Canada, unlike in the United States, our PM is not directly elected. Whomever can command a majority of the support in the House is prime minister. If enough Conservative MPs deserted the party and joined the NDP then Layton would become PM.

I know that the PM is not directly elected that it is the leader of the party who becomes PM! I simply never knew that there was not a number 2 position that was institutionalized for short term/time needs.

Smart thinking on the part of the Liberals to designate a number 2 position, as on the the world stage, optics are everything. I mean, after all, why would the world at large want to hear the Minister of Transport, or the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs speak as "thee" representative of Canada, as our PM is not available. And why would us Canadians want these lower caucus members speak on our behalf? My fictional newscaster post stands as a reason why a number 2 spot truly is needed, if only made clear in lines of official succession.

Let's discuss this no line of succession, that happens anyway, but has no title in the Harper government, but does within a Liberal government.

The order of succession/precedence according to our governmental rules state in order of recent governing political experience, do they not? As we can assume order of precedence is not just for "ceremonial" purposes, as someone suggested earlier. So what statute is it that deliniates the actual order of succession our ruling government is supposed to adhere to, until a leader can be elected from the caucus? Or is it supposed to be an immediate elected leader of the caucus? I did not look for the actual law/statute, I thought someone may know it? If so, could you post it.

Plus, there must be official short term and long tern guidlines written into our constitution. As truly, it should not be just whatever the governing party of the day wants to do. That sets a dangerous preceedence over Canadians laws one would think. Where the PM of the day decides what they personally want to do for lines of succession. I do not care what party is in power they should be following lines of succession as our parliament sets out.

For example, having looked over thelist, I see Harper, in his personal choice skipped rigth over anyone that had actual governing experience and went straight down the list to someone who has none.

Is this a wise thing to do on behalf of Canadians? Having a Minister of Transport, with no experience.

[leonardcohen]

I'd take the warmth.

And the bananas.

What's with the quote?

I *did not* write the banana republic line.

But we could follow through on that whack job suggestion to annex trinidad and tobago.

I know this is just an aside,but doesn't The Turks and Ciacos[sp]? Islands come up in discussion as a possible annexation target every few years,i heard they were willing<man> i would love vacationing in Canadas' 11th province!! Yeah,I know i'm dreaming..sigh

[Ricki Bobbi]

Smart thinking on the part of the Liberals to designate a number 2 position, as on the the world stage, optics are everything.

Yes, and your cheerleading for the Liberals is telling. You have the minister of Finance go to the G8, minister of International cooperation. Imagine that, having the Minister actually responsible for a file represent the country at important international meetings related to the file.

Is this a wise thing to do on behalf of Canadians? Having a Minister of Transport, with no experience.

The Liberals were in power for 13 years. Of course most of the Conservative MPs had no experience as Ministers.

What would have been wise?

Get Liberal cabinet ministers to experience to cross the floor? Something tells me you didn't approve of Emerson doing just that.

[Catchme]

Smart thinking on the part of the Liberals to designate a number 2 position, as on the the world stage, optics are everything.

Yes, and your cheerleading for the Liberals is telling.

Sorry, was not cheerleading was a straight up observation, I know of no organization that does not have a designated second in command to act and speak on behalf of that which it represents. The title usually reflects that designation. That Canada, as a organization so to speak, does not have a qualified 2nd in command, let alone and a designation for one, I find alarming.

You have the minister of Finance go to the G8, minister of International cooperation. Imagine that, having the Minister actually responsible for a file represent the country at important international meetings related to the file.

This is not part of the discussion, this part of the discussion was 2nd in command, the topic is the second highest cabinet position. Or who would next poweful to Harper. I can't imagine anyone seeing Cannon, as next powerful to Harper. Most Canadians probably do not even know who he is, let alone understand why Harper would give him 2nd in command rights.

Even in Liberal goverment Ministers went to that conference which fit their portfolio, it is not a "new CPC" concept or anything!

Is this a wise thing to do on behalf of Canadians? Having a Minister of Transport, with no experience.

The Liberals were in power for 13 years. Of course most of the Conservative MPs had no experience as Ministers.

Moot point the CPC in both its forms had MPs that were in opposition who are still there.

What would have been wise?

To have someone designated to be 2nd in command to actually have some governmental experience, Cannon HAS NONE as NONE, no time even practising as opposition, newly elected and all that. Harper, in his chosen line of succession, ignoring the legal lines, skipped over many who do. And that in itself is telling. He is not willing to do what is best for Canada, he is only willing to do what is best for himself!

Get Liberal cabinet ministers to experience to cross the floor?

No need to get someone from across the floor for government experience, Harper had many CPC MP"s to choose from, when deignating 2nd in command should something happen to him, that did/do have opposition experience at least. Cannon, I say again has NONE. So in Stephens mind, Cannon is non-threatening to his desire for total control and his need to hold absolute power.

This means should something happen to Stephen, Canada is left in the hands of a newly elected MP whose portfolio is the Ministry of Transportation.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Sorry, was not cheerleading was a straight up observation, I know of no organization that does not have a designated second in command to act and speak on behalf of that which it represents. The title usually reflects that designation. That Canada, as a organization so to speak, does not have a qualified 2nd in command, let alone and a designation for one, I find alarming.

Canada never had a Deputy PM before 1977. So you are alarmed about the history of the country for 110 years.

To have someone designated to be 2nd in command to actually have some governmental experience, Cannon HAS NONE as NONE, no time even practising as opposition, newly elected and all that. Harper, in his chosen line of succession, ignoring the legal lines, skipped over many who do.

Lawrence Cannon has a long and distinguished record in the private sector and with the party. He has done an admirable job as minister of transportation. Harper reached out to Quebec with the appointment of Cannon.

What legal lines are you talking about?

So in Stephens mind, Cannon is non-threatening to his desire for total control and his need to hold absolute power.

So designating Cannon as his number two is a sign of Harper's control issues.

Nice analysis. You don't have a hate on for Harper or the Conservatives at all.

[Catchme]

Sorry, was not cheerleading was a straight up observation, I know of no organization that does not have a designated second in command to act and speak on behalf of that which it represents. The title usually reflects that designation. That Canada, as a organization so to speak, does not have a qualified 2nd in command, let alone and a designation for one, I find alarming.

Canada never had a Deputy PM before 1977. So you are alarmed about the history of the country for 110 years.

I would imagine why a spot was created after 110 years was because they recognized the need for one in an increasingly optical world. As I said I know of no organization that has no 2nd in command.

To have someone designated to be 2nd in command to actually have some governmental experience, Cannon HAS NONE as NONE, no time even practising as opposition, newly elected and all that. Harper, in his chosen line of succession, ignoring the legal lines, skipped over many who do.

Lawrence Cannon has a long and distinguished record in the private sector and with the party. He has done an admirable job as minister of transportation. Harper reached out to Quebec with the appointment of Cannon.

What legal lines are you talking about?

Never heard of him, and private sector does not = governing a country. What has he done as the Minister of Transpotation? The Lines of Precedence as they are set out by Order of Governance.

So in Stephens mind, Cannon is non-threatening to his desire for total control and his need to hold absolute power.

So designating Cannon as his number two is a sign of Harper's control issues.

Yes, in part I am sure, Harper governs too much along the Machivelli lines dictates, and we ALL know Stephen has control issues.

Nice analysis.

Thank you I thought so too

You don't have a hate on for Harper or the Conservatives at all.

No, actually I do not. That I feel they are doing a less than stellar job of governing Canada is quite clear, and correct. They do not have the mandate to do the things they have been doing and they thereby are not being responsive, and responsible, to those who pay the bills and make Canada what it is, Canadians. Acting against what 70% of Canadians believe in and have fought to create is something to dislike though, and I do.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Never heard of him, and private sector does not = governing a country. What has he done as the Minister of Transpotation? The Lines of Precedence as they are set out by Order of Governance.

It's the Order of Precdence and those are explicitly stated as being for ceremonial purposes only.

SThey do not have the mandate to do the things they have been doing and they thereby are not being responsive, and responsible, to those who pay the bills and make Canada what it is, Canadians. Acting against what 70% of Canadians believe in and have fought to create is something to dislike though, and I do.

They won a plurality of votes and seats in the election.

What constitutes a mandate?

36% of the Canadian public voted Conservative in January. Why would some of them be *acting against* what Canadians believe.

Is it majority rule all the time? Or only when the party you support is out of power?

At the time SSM passed into law a majority of Canadians opposed it. Should that not have happened?

Or is it majority rule only when the party you support is out of power?

[Remiel]

Well, inheriting Turks & Caicos would continue our tradition of inheriting New World territories from Britain, hehehe...

And those Rock Iguanas are so cute!

Size wise, Turks & Caico is very small, a little more than a 10th the area of Prince Edward Island, though it has an estimated larger population that either the Yukon or Nunavut. Apparently, taking it on as a territory (it could not become a province) would only require an act of parliament, and no change to the Constitution.

In any case, the biggest concern of mine is whether it coming under our wing could have a negative effect on its environment and infrastructure. While it currently has something like 200,000 tourists a year, 87,000 from the U.S., I would predict at least a small drop in tourists from the US but perhaps a disastrously large number of tourists from Canada in the first few years, followed by a return to near current levels.

[Charles Anthony]

This means should something happen to Stephen, Canada is left in the hands of a newly elected MP whose portfolio is the Ministry of Transportation.

For better or for worse, our electoral system does not filter our leaders based on their gubernatorial experience anyway. Are you open to the possibility that it does not matter?

What do you think happens to the country when all of your politicians go on vacation?

[Argus]

There never was a formal position of "deputy prime minister". That is a fictional "honourary" position created by the Liberals. The parliamentary system never really had any need for such a position. But it certainly went well with the Liberals' "style over substance" way of governing.

..if something serious happened to Harper, the Tory caucus would simply elect another leader. I'm not sure if their party constitution would then require confirmation from the rank and file membership or not.

In Canada, unlike in the United States, our PM is not directly elected. Whomever can command a majority of the support in the House is prime minister. If enough Conservative MPs deserted the party and joined the NDP then Layton would become PM.

Let's discuss this no line of succession, that happens anyway, but has no title in the Harper government, but does within a Liberal government.

The order of succession/precedence according to our governmental rules state in order of recent governing political experience, do they not?

Parliamentary democracies do not have an order of succession. Caucus decides who leads them, and that's it. End of story. If 160 MPs from all parties had a meeting and decided to elect Kimmy as their leader, then Kimmy would be Prime Minister of Canada. It doesn't get any simpler or more complicated than that. If Harper's plane goes down caucus will have a meeting and put up someone else among them as their leader, and that person will be PM. If a consensus was not immediately arrived at, they'd put someone as interim PM while they hashed it out.

[Canadian Blue]

SThey do not have the mandate to do the things they have been doing and they thereby are not being responsive, and responsible, to those who pay the bills and make Canada what it is, Canadians. Acting against what 70% of Canadians believe in and have fought to create is something to dislike though, and I do.

So since no government has won a majority of the votes in the past 15 years none of them had a mandate to govern???

Yes, in part I am sure, Harper governs too much along the Machivelli lines dictates, and we ALL know Stephen has control issues.

No more than Jean Chretien, ever hear of Nunziata?

No need to get someone from across the floor for government experience, Harper had many CPC MP"s to choose from, when deignating 2nd in command should something happen to him, that did/do have opposition experience at least. Cannon, I say again has NONE. So in Stephens mind, Cannon is non-threatening to his desire for total control and his need to hold absolute power.

This means should something happen to Stephen, Canada is left in the hands of a newly elected MP whose portfolio is the Ministry of Transportation.

Lawrence Cannon has experience in government.

Cannon then was elected in 1985 as a member of the National Assembly of Québec for the provincial riding of la Peltrie; and then held several cabinet level positions: notably as Minister of Foreign Trade and Technological Development, Tourism, and then Transport. In October 1990 to January 1994 he became minister for communications, and implemented the 911 emergency system as well as the Privacy Act within Quebec. Federally he became active in deeply supporting Sheila Copps (who as well later became Deputy Prime Minister of Canada) in her attempt to win the federal Liberal leadership, a contest won instead by Jean Chrétien, and then later by Paul Martin.

That's odd, you should trying doing your homework once in a while.

I don't think it would matter if Ghandi, Jesus, or Roosevelt, was deputy PM these people would always find a problem with them.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I don't think it would matter if Ghandi, Jesus, or Roosevelt, was deputy PM these people would always find a problem with them.

*Only* if they weren't Liberal Deputy PMs.

Then they would be the greatest thing since sliced bread, or Iggy at least.

[g_bambino]

Parliamentary democracies do not have an order of succession. Caucus decides who leads them, and that's it. End of story. If 160 MPs from all parties had a meeting and decided to elect Kimmy as their leader, then Kimmy would be Prime Minister of Canada. It doesn't get any simpler or more complicated than that. If Harper's plane goes down caucus will have a meeting and put up someone else among them as their leader, and that person will be PM. If a consensus was not immediately arrived at, they'd put someone as interim PM while they hashed it out.

You're quite right about the absence of an order of succession, at least for our politicians (the Prime Minister is supposed to be considered a "first amongst equals"), but, when it comes to the Prime Minister dying while in office (or some other similar circumstance), technically the government continues with the Governor General - the position of Prime Minister is not established by the Constitution, the written parts at least. I assume the GG would continue to "govern" on the advice of the members of the Queen's Privy Council, as is constitutionally outlined, and the Cabinet is the "highest" committee within the QPC. All this means that even in the absence of a PM, governance continues without interruption.