Alberta Jobs

[kimmy]

Has anyone actually seen the suburbs of Calgary and Edmonton? They are BUTT ugly. It seems Alberta's boomtime mentality has no regard for longevity or urban planning. It's just plain ugly. The houses are all built with faux stucco and other materials that look nice now but end up looking cheap and ugly within 5-10 years. The neighbourhoods have no trees or back allyways and the "community" revolves around a strip mall with an esso station, a rogers video and a mac's convenience store.

From personal observation, this descriptions sounds remarkably similar to suburbs of Ottawa and Vancouver that I've seen as well. I spent the holidays in the Okanagan, and noticed that Kamloops and Kelowna now also have equally crappy-looking suburbs popping up around them.

Sure, there are the petroleum clubs, the brand new jazz clubs and wine bars in downtown calgary or edmonton, but that's a small percentage of the overall picture. Most people who move to Alberta from the east are in for a lack-of-culture shock. Unless you want to join the throngs of wal-marters hanging around the mall's food-court bragging about your measly $5K per year raise, consider some other options...

Y'know, Jerry, I don't think many of the people who come to Alberta looking for work in the oilfields or trades or labour jobs are the sorts who will be looking for jazz clubs or wine clubs or the opera or interpretive dance or live theatre anyway. Edmonton and Calgary do have all of those things, but as you mention, they're a small percentage of the overall picture. Here's a hint: they're a small percentage of the overall picture "back east" too.

Some westerners have the notion that people "back east" are somehow more cultured or sophisticated or erudite than themselves; I've taken to thinking of this as "I Miss Trudeau Syndrome." One walks down the street in Edmonton and sees all the tradesmen with mullets and jean-jackets, and one thinks "this city is full of the most uneducated, unsophisticated people on earth," and assumes that if they were in a cosmopolitan city like Toronto or Vancouver, they'd be surrounded by cultured and urbane people like themselves. But they'd be mistaken. I've lived in Ottawa and Vancouver and Victoria as well as in Edmonton, and I've seen nothing to support the theory that folks in these places are more cultured or sophisticated or urbane than in Edmonton.

Go to the opera or a jazz club in Toronto, and you'll find the same sort of person you find at the opera or a jazz-club in Edmonton: somebody whose tastes are far outside the mainstream of that city's population, and hardly representative of the populace at large.

Go to a museum or an art gallery in Ottawa, and you know who you'll meet? Tourists.

I visited the Museum of Civilization and the National Art Gallery and the House of Parliament when I lived there. They're certainly spectacular things to visit, and I recommend them highly. But if I wanted to find my classmates on the weekend, I'd go to the food court at the shopping mall.

From an Albertan "lifer" (me), the question you need to ask yourself is: do you want to live in a shitty climate with a baron landscape for a few extra bucks?

The slam against Alberta's climate is another one that I don't understand. Ottawa has by far the shittiest climate I've encountered. Rain, snow, sleet, freezing and thawing all winter. Shitty humidity in the summer, turning even a warm day into an intolerable, sweaty, gross sauna. It's just disgusting. I'm far happier with the occassionally uncomfortable cold in Edmonton than I was with the year-round sickening humidity in Ottawa.

I found that the famously mild west-coast winters were also highly over-rated. Yes, it's comparatively warm. Unfortunately, it's also soggy, sunless, and depressing. Since I left, they've apparently added something new: monsoon season. During my visit to Okanagan country, the TV news emanating from Vancouver seemed to be non-stop coverage of the chaos being created by rainstorms and windstorms. Every day, the news hour was dominated by story after story of either the damage caused by winds and flooding during the last storm, or weather warnings and preparations for the next storm. Compared to that, I think I can live with the cold. BC's weather snobbery is becoming increasingly hard to justify.

I'll never forget the story (I know: anecdote is not data) a female friend of mine told me about the guy who tried to pick her up at Overtime (a Edmonton nightclub frequented by the noveau riche bourgeoise) by showing her a photo of his house that he kept in his wallet.

That's hilarious! But you're surely not under the impression that men attempting to use absurdly ostentatious displays of wealth or status to attract women is unique to Alberta?!

-k

[jester]

That's hilarious! But you're surely not under the impression that men attempting to use absurdly ostentatious displays of wealth or status to attract women is unique to Alberta?!

Not as good as the guy I knew in Toronto who has an old bank passbook where he had typed in he had $1,000,000 in the bank. A very popular activity in Greece before the Euro was introduced was showing how you were a millionaire in drachmas- about 25,000 to the dollar or something equally worth it.....

[White Doors]

Yes, isn't streotyping supposed to be an activity that only a redneck engages in?

How delightfully ironic!

[Live From China]

BC's weather snobbery is becoming increasingly hard to justify.

I am from BC and even so, I totally agree with you. What I find really strange about this snobbery is that it seems to imply that the snobbish individual (they are boors really, even under that so-called West Coast sophistication) is somehow personally responsible for creating the weather I am also tired of the attitude that somehow they were just so wise and blessed to have picked Vancouver or Victoria in which to live.

I will agree that Calgary is ugly, but then so is Kamloops, Kelowna, Vancouver, and (hold on!) even parts of hallowed Victoria. They all have their unimaginative, somber suburbs.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Yea - that's why Vancouver is consistently ranked #1,2 or 3 in the world for best city in the world to live in.

Where does Edmonchuk rank? Oh yea - it doesn't.

[White Doors]

Yea - that's why Vancouver is consistently ranked #1,2 or 3 in the world for best city in the world to live in.

Where does Edmonchuk rank? Oh yea - it doesn't.

I don't think it usually is surveyed is it? Calgary the same. Somethimes they are but sometimes they are now.

[Drea]

Yea - that's why Vancouver is consistently ranked #1,2 or 3 in the world for best city in the world to live in.

Where does Edmonchuk rank? Oh yea - it doesn't.

I don't think it usually is surveyed is it? Calgary the same. Somethimes they are but sometimes they are now.

All major cities in the world are "surveyed". Vancouver has consitently ranked among the top 5 best and most beautiful places to live.

Check here: Best Cities

Ottawa beat out Calgary

But take heart -- Calgary beat out Honolulu

[White Doors]

The problem is that most times Calgary isn't considered a 'major city'. Never heard of the survey you linked but most of these surveys are done by international corporations most of which do not have a major branch in cities the size of Calgary. Calgary got 2th on that one though, pretty good. I prefer the Maritimes, but I can guarantee you that Fredericton doesn't make any of these surveys.

[Live From China]

Vancouver has consitently ranked among the top 5 best and most beautiful places to live.

If you have more than an average income. A lot more! Many people are driving in from Abbotsford, even Chilliwack to go to work in Vancouver! This detracts from the quality of life. I personally don't like the rain and gloom in the winter. And many retired people are leaving (gasp!) Vancouver for a better life elsewhere in BC. I am sure this is heresy, but there you have it!

When I lived in Vancouver, it just became more ludicrously expensive and difficult to live there. Traffic jams rival those in Shanghai. And let's remember, Shanghai has a population that makes Vancouver look like a backwater village.

[geoffrey]

Then again, Albertans, by and large, are only concerned with money and the tawdry displays of pseudo-wealth it buys them

Are you by chance a person who also refers to Albertans as a bunch of red necks? Stereo-type much?

He'd get mad if I said Toronto people are generally either ghettoised coloured poor people or snobby bankers eatting Sushi because it's trendy!

Toronto might look nice (when it's not smoggy... so uh... 10 days of the year?) but the people are cold. Calgary has the highest volunteer hours in the country. Go us!

[Slavik44]

If you have more than an average income. A lot more! Many people are driving in from Abbotsford, even Chilliwack to go to work in Vancouver! This detracts from the quality of life.

But these people choose to do so, they are free to live anywhere in Canada and to move anywhere in Canada, this freedom of mobility is enshrined in our charter. However, these people choose both where they work and where they live. Places like abbotsford offer people two valuable things...they offer proximity to vancouver and access to the natural and manmade benifiets of British Columbia a combination unlike anywhere else in Canada. While also offering a dramatic reduction in the cost of living. The trade off is that you have to sit in traffic or maybe use the WCE. Everything in life involves some sort of trade off no such thing as a perfect world, even in British Columbia.

I personally don't like the rain and gloom in the winter.

I personally don't like freezing my ass off

And many retired people are leaving (gasp!) Vancouver for a better life elsewhere in BC. I am sure this is heresy, but there you have it!

I believe that depends on what you see as Vancouver. For instance not only is vancouver a great place to live but it has an amazing backyard, one that cannot easily be challanged by anything in Canada. What these people are doing is moving themselves further away from the hub and closer to the part of the backyard they love the most. Its not neccessarily just vancouver alone that is great, but what is around vancouver that is great. I think this is perhaps a large misunderstanding about "vancouver" the implication is not neccessarily the city, but the easy access it provides to perhaps the greatest backyard in Canada.

When I lived in Vancouver, it just became more ludicrously expensive and difficult to live there. Traffic jams rival those in Shanghai. And let's remember, Shanghai has a population that makes Vancouver look like a backwater village

Listen if you want a cheap place to live with no traffic then I have found a great house for you...I won't even charge you a finders fee...its in Winnepeg. IF what you value most in life is low cost of lving and isolation then you are not going to like vancouver

http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?vd=...pertyID=5251323

[geoffrey]

For instance not only is vancouver a great place to live but it has an amazing backyard, one that cannot easily be challanged by anything in Canada. What these people are doing is moving themselves further away from the hub and closer to the part of the backyard they love the most. Its not neccessarily just vancouver alone that is great, but what is around vancouver that is great. I think this is perhaps a large misunderstanding about "vancouver" the implication is not neccessarily the city, but the easy access it provides to perhaps the greatest backyard in Canada.

I'd live in Vancouver, good skiing and climbing and biking. Same with Calgary. That the two cities share in common, proximity to the best recreational areas in the country. Other than that, I don't think they could be more different.

[Live From China]

I am not saying that Vancouver is not a beautiful city. And the access to outdoor is great. I personally think the rock climbing in Squamish is great. However, overall for recreation, I preferred the Rockies and the Selkirks.

The trade off is that you have to sit in traffic or maybe use the WCE. Everything in life involves some sort of trade off no such thing as a perfect world, even in British Columbia.

Think of the hours this detracts from enjoying the outdoors, or enjoying life period. The stress (especially if you had to commute from Abbotsford everyday) would ultimately take its toll. It is actually dangerous! Not to mention costly, and hard on the environment. It would be interesting to find out the numbers of people commuting in from Surrey, White Rock, etc. everyday. Yes, there is no such thing as a perfect world. Then I never said there was nor even implied it.

I personally don't like freezing my ass off

Living elsewhere isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. The warmer winters in Vancouver or Victoria. Absolute zero everywhere else

Listen if you want a cheap place to live with no traffic then I have found a great house for you...I won't even charge you a finders fee...its in Winnepeg. IF what you value most in life is low cost of living and isolation then you are not going to like vancouver

I would live in Winnipeg if I had to. And everyone would like a cheaper place to live with less traffic. Even those in Vancouver want Vancouver to be that way. Again, it isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. Beautiful house, by the way! But it isn't run down enough for me

[Live From China]

Some westerners have the notion that people "back east" are somehow more cultured or sophisticated or erudite than themselves; I've taken to thinking of this as "I Miss Trudeau Syndrome." One walks down the street in Edmonton and sees all the tradesmen with mullets and jean-jackets, and one thinks "this city is full of the most uneducated, unsophisticated people on earth," and assumes that if they were in a cosmopolitan city like Toronto or Vancouver, they'd be surrounded by cultured and urbane people like themselves. But they'd be mistaken. I've lived in Ottawa and Vancouver and Victoria as well as in Edmonton, and I've seen nothing to support the theory that folks in these places are more cultured or sophisticated or urbane than in Edmonton.

Go to the opera or a jazz club in Toronto, and you'll find the same sort of person you find at the opera or a jazz-club in Edmonton: somebody whose tastes are far outside the mainstream of that city's population, and hardly representative of the populace at large.

Go to a museum or an art gallery in Ottawa, and you know who you'll meet? Tourists.

I visited the Museum of Civilization and the National Art Gallery and the House of Parliament when I lived there. They're certainly spectacular things to visit, and I recommend them highly. But if I wanted to find my classmates on the weekend, I'd go to the food court at the shopping mall.

Well said, kimmy!

[geoffrey]

From personal observation, this descriptions sounds remarkably similar to suburbs of Ottawa and Vancouver that I've seen as well. I spent the holidays in the Okanagan, and noticed that Kamloops and Kelowna now also have equally crappy-looking suburbs popping up around them.

Comparitively kimmy, your right. Our suburbs here are equally ugly as to elsewhere.

Something to consider though. I heard once, and don't doubt it, that Calgary is the largest city in Canada in land area (I'm sure that doesn't include metropolitan areas). The urban sprawl in Calgary is just beyond belief. I think we'll start seeing an end to that soon with suburban house prices going up, and the younger generation a little more hip and trendy towards the condo's than their parents were. I have no ambition to buy a house, too much to clean, I don't have the time. Calgary will have to start building up, not out.

The other issue with Calgary, and likely Edmonton, there aren't any real physical barriers to our sprawl. In Vancouver they are pinned against mountains, in Toronto they are wedged between Lake Ontario and various other cities. Montreal again is wedged, though I don't think Montreal is growing much.

Calgary is essientially out in an massive open field. It costs little to just expand. The only thing we have is a large Indian reservation to the West, and people are essientially building around that. They are even going to lease us a section of their land for a new ring road (fantastic, I can see the blockades already).

The slam against Alberta's climate is another one that I don't understand. Ottawa has by far the shittiest climate I've encountered. Rain, snow, sleet, freezing and thawing all winter. Shitty humidity in the summer, turning even a warm day into an intolerable, sweaty, gross sauna. It's just disgusting. I'm far happier with the occassionally uncomfortable cold in Edmonton than I was with the year-round sickening humidity in Ottawa.

I far prefer Calgary's climate to anywhere else in Canada, it's a great balance. Snow in the mountains, not much in the city. Weeks of chinooks keep you from suffering the unrelenting cold of other prarie cities.

Sure, we had a -30 before windchill week before December was out, but it's normally only a week of that per year.

The summers in Calgary are AMAZING, the sunniest city in Canada no? The general pattern is bright sunny mid-twenty days with powerful evening thunderstorms that cool things down for the evenings. Doesn't get better than that.

[Live From China]

I don't think anyone can dispute the beauty of Vancouver's "backyard." But, how many people actually utilize that backyard? Yes, Vancouver is a city for outdoor recreation enthusiasts (this could even include people who enjoy walking, painting, photography, etc.). In comparison to places like Calgary or Edmonton the numbers are probably relatively high.

But overall, the majority of Vancouverites probably spend their time travelling to and from work, sitting in front of the TV, mowing their lawn on weekends, and visiting WalMart. Dullsville all the way! Gee, sounds like people living elsewhere. In short, they do not use the backyard for which Vancouver is known.

To paraphrase kimmy, "I've seen nothing to support the theory that folks in these places are more cultured or sophisticated or urbane than anywhere else." (Italics mine).

[geoffrey]

I don't think anyone can dispute the beauty of Vancouver's "backyard." But, how many people actually utilize that backyard? Yes, Vancouver is a city for outdoor recreation enthusiasts (this could even include people who enjoy walking, painting, photography, etc.). In comparison to places like Calgary or Edmonton the numbers are probably relatively high.

I actually think Calgary has a stronger reputation for outdoor enthusists, or at least, equal. Both Calgary and Vancouver have ridiculous amounts of mountain park resources an hour away.

[kimmy]

For outdoor activity, I've never seen anything like Victoria. The enthusiasm of Victorians for outdoor activity is remarkable, and I've never been someplace where I saw so many people biking and running and rollerblading and so on.

Yea - that's why Vancouver is consistently ranked #1,2 or 3 in the world for best city in the world to live in.

Where does Edmonchuk rank? Oh yea - it doesn't.

You hard-line conservatives are always the first to trash these "quality of life" surveys when they rank socialist paradises like Norway or Sweden or Canada ahead of the United States for "quality of life". And yet, first thing out of your bag when somebody questions how awesome Vancouver is? A "quality of life" survey.

As always, I'm skeptical about the methodology. Did they visit the ski-hills, tourist-traps, and the nude beach, and say "wow, this place rocks!" or did they actually experience the traffic-jams, monsoons, and Indo-Canadian gangs first hand before coming to that conclusion?

-k

[Live From China]

Have to agree with you there, geoffrey. Having done climbing and ski touring in both areas, I am under the impression that peaks and areas in the Rockies were/are more accessible. Had friends who did a lot of mountaineering on Vancouver Island. Most only worked part-time and thus could take off the large amounts of time required to access the mountains on the island.

And yet, first thing out of your bag when somebody questions how awesome Vancouver is?

Again, well said! I lived in Vancouver for 8 years. I have always been under the impression that when one casts any "doubts" upon Vancouver (don't like the rain, the traffic, and the like), the people who are die-hard Vancouverites take it as a personal affront, as if you had actually slapped them in the face. Vancouver is a beautiful city and has much to offer (provided you have the money), but it isn't, never has been, and never will be the centre of the Universe.

[Canuck E Stan]

For outdoor activity, I've never seen anything like Victoria. The enthusiasm of Victorians for outdoor activity is remarkable, and I've never been someplace where I saw so many people biking and running and rollerblading and so on.

-k

Nothing beats Victoria, especially it's ocean view of the city's sewage floating by.

How positively organic.

[Slavik44]

I don't think anyone can dispute the beauty of Vancouver's "backyard." But, how many people actually utilize that backyard? Yes, Vancouver is a city for outdoor recreation enthusiasts (this could even include people who enjoy walking, painting, photography, etc.). In comparison to places like Calgary or Edmonton the numbers are probably relatively high.

But overall, the majority of Vancouverites probably spend their time travelling to and from work, sitting in front of the TV, mowing their lawn on weekends, and visiting WalMart. Dullsville all the way! Gee, sounds like people living elsewhere. In short, they do not use the backyard for which Vancouver is known.

To paraphrase kimmy, "I've seen nothing to support the theory that folks in these places are more cultured or sophisticated or urbane than anywhere else." (Italics mine).

How many people utilize it is irrelavent I was just pointing out that it was there and that it is one of the biggest draws to living in the city. I never made the claim that somehow the people of vancouver were mkore sophisticated or urbane than anywhere else...so i am not making an attack on people who live else where. Meerly pointing out that thereis a justifiable desire to wanting to live in vancouver. And if you are so inclined to be an active person it is an absolutely great city to live in.

[Live From China]

I never made the claim that somehow the people of vancouver were mkore sophisticated or urbane than anywhere else...so i am not making an attack on people who live else where.

My paraphrasing of kimmy's post was intended to show that many Vancouverites are no more outdoor or recreationally oriented than anywhere else. Nor are they any more cultured or urbane (it all fits together). In fact, many are probably not oriented that way at all. And, in a way, whether or not they utilize the "backyard" is relevant. When you spend most of your time driving to work, in front of the TV, at the mall, etc., why is where you live so important? (Of course, I am excluding places like Inuvik or Lower Post). I seem to recall a mind-boggling statistic that said the average Canadian (whatever that is) spends on average 15 minutes per day outside.

Of course, I would rather drive to the mall in the rain than in a blizzard I think a huge part of the attraction of places like Vancouver and Victoria is the weather, and specifically, the winter weather. Just think if our ancestors had been afraid of the cold the way many people are today, Canada wouldn't even exist.

If I was still involved climbing and ski touring I would rather live in Jasper, Banff or Squamish, than Vancouver.

[Drea]

Ahhh but where else (but the BC Lower Mainland) can you go golfing or sailing in the morning and skiing in the afternoon?

Although I would never live IN Vancouver (the city) - this is still the prettiest, warmest part of the country. Of course I am a biased born-and-bred BCer.

[White Doors]

I think the maritimes and the thousand Island region of Ontario is prettier.

[Live From China]

Ahhh but where else (but the BC Lower Mainland) can you go golfing or sailing in the morning and skiing in the afternoon?

Kamloops, Kelowna, Comox, Campbell River, Penticton and Vernon.

I think the Rockies are far more beautiful and spectacular (not warmer of course) than the area around Vancouver. And I lived in Vancouver for 8 years and I grew up in BC.