Britain and Multi-culturalism

[betsy]

Also a muslim women coming to Canada:

- can get help if some idiot is trying to cut off her clit.

- can drive if she wants to.

- can toss the burka if she wants to.

- report her husband if he beats her.

So, yes I think it's a good thing that these people come here. I bet there's a huge sigh of relief as soon as they disembark.

I'd like to save (bring to Canada) all the women of the world from religious oppression (of all sorts), but alas! I am only one person.

Some women from India silently endure domestic abuse in Canada, because of the culture they brought from India. Nobody came forward to report the abuses. Usually, even their own families or parents will not interfere.

It became news when a conference was held by some Indian Women activists. It became news only because of the spate of Indian women killed by their spouses recently.

Do women die when their clit is cut? I guess not.

Can a docile women, cowed by fear drive and toss away her burka if she wants to, or report her husband for beating up on her?

We want to imagine they can do all those. But whom are we kidding?

IF the western world that had always had a democratic free society can still have the problems of western women being abused by their spouses...what more with women who'd been raised and conditioned by repressive societies?

[Charles Anthony]

I have never been to Britain. However, I wonder if the sentiments that bred Nazism have ever left Europe.

Shallow and silly. What kind of sentiments are you talking about?

Bigotry and xenophobia.

And why would you imagine they were not here in Canada and everywhere else in the world?

I believe both bigotry and xenophobia are in Canada.

However, I am convinced that within one generation (approximately 50 years) the vast majority of xenophobes and bigots in Canada will have died of old age. The problem will be solved by attrition.

Despite both countries experimenting with the ridiculous social engineering of multi-culturalism, unlike the UK, Canada's Prime Minister does not make statements upholding bigotry and xenophobia as evidenced in this opening post. It will take the British much longer to solve their problems.

Do women die when their clit is cut? I guess not.

Can a docile women, cowed by fear drive and toss away her burka if she wants to, or report her husband for beating up on her?

Yes to all of the above.

We want to imagine they can do all those. But whom are we kidding?

IF the western world that had always had a democratic free society can still have the problems of western women being abused by their spouses...what more with women who'd been raised and conditioned by repressive societies?

They may have a better chance at recourse or self-defense or even survival in Canada.

[betsy]

Do women die when their clit is cut? I guess not.

Can a docile women, cowed by fear drive and toss away her burka if she wants to, or report her husband for beating up on her?

Yes to all of the above.

We want to imagine they can do all those. But whom are we kidding?

IF the western world that had always had a democratic free society can still have the problems of western women being abused by their spouses...what more with women who'd been raised and conditioned by repressive societies?

They may have a better chance at recourse or self-defense or even survival in Canada.

Only if they come out of their cultural repressions.

Being in Canada does not offer any better chance if they are segregated...which multi-culturalism encourages! Only through integration and assimilation...can they feel free to enjoy what Canada has to offer.

The Labour Party stance is knocking down divisive walls...oppressive walls that keep some citizens still in the grip of oppression...within a free nation. Multi-culturalism had practically sanctioned some oppressions to continue!

[jbg]

Have you ever eaten Chinese food? Indian food? Greek food? If you eat anything other that boiled mashed potatoes, you're being sucked into (gasp) a different culture! Accck!

Wrong. Their adding to our culture is fine. Their rejecting our culture, our freedom, and our civil society is intolerable.

[Remiel]

People in general will *always* feel more comfortable living around others with the same background. It's a simple fact of genetics. That doesn't mean everyone who lives in Chinatown or Little Italy is a xenophobe.

[Drea]

Some women from India silently endure domestic abuse in Canada, because of the culture they brought from India. Nobody came forward to report the abuses. Usually, even their own families or parents will not interfere

It became news when a conference was held by some Indian Women activists. It became news only because of the spate of Indian women killed by their spouses recently.

30 years ago a "white" woman was silent about her abusive husband and couldn't get out of a marriage either. Aren't you glad the secularists fixed that for us? Aren't you glad our culture "evolved"?

Do women die when their clit is cut? I guess not.

Think about that for 5 minutes and try to envision your life without your clit.... it's barbaric and insane. How do we teach immigrant 8 year old girls that no one has the right to touch them there -- even when all the women in her family have been "done"? If I had to have my very important body parts (unlike say, tonsils) cut off I would rather die. How many men would want to live if they had to have their penises chopped off? And no, male circumcision is NOT the same as female genital mutiliation. The latter is done to prevent the enjoyment of sex. The former is done to prevent infection.

Can a docile women, cowed by fear drive and toss away her burka if she wants to, or report her husband for beating up on her?

30 years ago a "white" woman couldn't get out of a marriage either. Aren't you glad the secularists fixed that for us? Aren't you glad our culture "evolved"?

We want to imagine they can do all those. But whom are we kidding?

IF the western world that had always had a democratic free society can still have the problems of western women being abused by their spouses...what more with women who'd been raised and conditioned by repressive societies?

Would you say a muslim woman has more chance of freedom here in Canada or in Iran? I'd rather have her here so she and her daughters can be taught that they have rights simply because they are human beings.

[Wilber]

People in general will *always* feel more comfortable living around others with the same background. It's a simple fact of genetics. That doesn't mean everyone who lives in Chinatown or Little Italy is a xenophobe.

Culture yes, genetics no. People feel comfortable with those who share their customs and language. Genetics have little to do with it outside of sometimes being used as an excuse to discriminate against someone who looks different.

[Argus]

I have never been to Britain. However, I wonder if the sentiments that bred Nazism have ever left Europe.

Shallow and silly. What kind of sentiments are you talking about?

Bigotry and xenophobia.

Xenophobia is one of those terms which has been stretched out of all recognition, and now seems to mean anyone with the slightest discomfort with any aspect of any foreign culture for any reason.

And why would you imagine they were not here in Canada and everywhere else in the world?

I believe both bigotry and xenophobia are in Canada.

However, I am convinced that within one generation (approximately 50 years) the vast majority of xenophobes and bigots in Canada will have died of old age. The problem will be solved by attrition.

Because, like, only old people are bigots and xenophobes. Young people know better than to judge other cultures, or other people, or anything. Sorry, but if you've never met anyone young I can tell you they're just as likely to be bigoted and to sneer at women in burkhas and men in turbans.

Despite both countries experimenting with the ridiculous social engineering of multi-culturalism, unlike the UK, Canada's Prime Minister does not make statements upholding bigotry and xenophobia as evidenced in this opening post. It will take the British much longer to solve their problems.

Your suggestion that Blair's statement was bigoted simply demonstrates that you don't knw what the word is or means.

BTW, the Dutch, German, Italian, Australian and French leaders have made similar statements.

[betsy]

30 years ago a "white" woman was silent about her abusive husband and couldn't get out of a marriage either. Aren't you glad us? Aren't you glad our culture "evolved"?

That's why the culture of those people who came from oppressive regimes must "evolve" with us.

We cannot have a different level of rights for women! All women must have the same rights and freedom.

Think about that for 5 minutes and try to envision your life without your clit.... it's barbaric and insane.

You misunderstood my meaning, and I must admit my answer was misleading.

I do not approve of or condone that barbaric procedure.

My answer was along the context of those Indian women enduring domestic violence all through these time in Canada. That the only reason why it became known was due to recent multiple murders of Indian women recently. If it hadn't been for those consecutive murders in a span of one week....the abuses they endure will still remain unknown...behind closed doors....behind the walls of their culture.

Would you say a muslim woman has more chance of freedom here in Canada or in Iran? I'd rather have her here so she and her daughters can be taught that they have rights simply because they are human beings.

But that's the painful irony, isn't it? Being in Canada and yet still having to endure the same things they've endured in Iran. Muslim women are more isolated from the rest of us, compared to other ethnic groups.

They even wear that veil, shielded from others, which further emphasize their sense of isolation!

[Remiel]

Unfortunately, Wilber, I can't remember where I original saw the article that I was basing my comment on, or else I would try to find it online. As I recall though, they gist of it wasn't that people were genetically predisposed to disliking or distrusting people who were different, but that they were predisposed to favouring those were were more alike. I mean, I'd certainly be happier if that wasn't true, I was just relaying what I had read.

[Charles Anthony]

Xenophobia is one of those terms which has been stretched out of all recognition, and now seems to mean anyone with the slightest discomfort with any aspect of any foreign culture for any reason.

That is exactly what I mean when I use the word xenophobia. If there is a better word for what you describe, please tell me what that would be and I will use it instead.

Because, like, only old people are bigots and xenophobes.

No, old people are not the only bigots. However, old bigots are less likely to change or grow up.

Young people know better than to judge other cultures, or other people, or anything. Sorry, but if you've never met anyone young I can tell you they're just as likely to be bigoted and to sneer at women in burkhas and men in turbans.

I agree and I see it too. However, unlike old bigots, I have more hope that young bigots will grow up and discard their younger foolishness.

Years ago, same-sex marriage was unthinkable. It eventually became taboo. Now, most people could not care less. The people who oppose same-sex marriage will eventually die off and it will become a non-issue.

Likewise, smoking marijuana was demonized and considered more dangerous than cocaine -- mainly because of the threat hemp posed to the pulp and paper industry. Now, there are more and more adults who have either smoked it or know people who smoked it and did not turn into demons. With enough time, marijuana will be decriminalized and even legalized.

Similarly, racism will disappear by attrition. The only racists left will be cuckoos who never drive into town.

Your suggestion that Blair's statement was bigoted simply demonstrates that you don't knw what the word is or means.

BTW, the Dutch, German, Italian, Australian and French leaders have made similar statements.

Thank you for validating my original statement above:

I have never been to Britain. However, I wonder if the sentiments that bred Nazism have ever left Europe.

[betsy]

I have never been to Britain. However, I wonder if the sentiments that bred Nazism have ever left Europe.

Of course those who'd had always believed in Nazism will still harbor nagging sentiments of it....and with what's happening as shown by the link I provided ("Piggybacking...."), and what's happening around the world....more likely they'd now be saying, "See?"

I had seen on tv some citizens of the Netherlands being interviewed about the banning of the burkas. Most of them, women. When asked "why is it necessary to ban the burka when only a few women are wearing it?"

They are practically identical with their flat answer: "Why? Because they are in The Netherlands!"

The tone of the answer says a lot.

The failing system of multiculturalism, where-in the host country is the one that is being required to give up much of its own culture for the sake of appeasement is fanning the flames that would only lead to intolerance.

And I worry (like a lot of other Non-Muslim ethnic members of the western community), that intolerance will end up being extended to ALL. There is no denying that only one group is giving the world such a headache right now, being a threat to everyone.

Do you think "anti-western" sentiments had ever left every individual who comes to the west?

[Charles Anthony]

Do you think "anti-western" sentiments had ever left every individual who comes to the west?

I doubt they ever had "anti-western" sentiments before they arrived.

I believe the majority of people who move to Canada are NOT xenophobic.

[betsy]

Do you think "anti-western" sentiments had ever left every individual who comes to the west?

I doubt they ever had "anti-western" sentiments before they arrived.

I believe the majority of people who move to Canada are NOT xenophobic.

Then why do we have Imams preaching in London or some other western societies against the western evil? Inciting suicide bombings?

[Charles Anthony]

Then why do we have Imams preaching in London or some other western societies against the western evil? Inciting suicide bombings?

-- because it sells newspapers.

[Argus]

Do you think "anti-western" sentiments had ever left every individual who comes to the west?

I doubt they ever had "anti-western" sentiments before they arrived.

I believe the majority of people who move to Canada are NOT xenophobic.

I have dealt with many third-world immigrants over the past decades. In my experience, the hatreds and bigotries which populate their home cultures are alive and well in the immigrants - most of whom come here for strictly economic reasons.

Most are deeply suspicious and distrustful of the US. Most are deeply dissaproving of our culture and values, especially with regard to sexuality and women. Blacks don't think much of Asians, and Asians think Blacks are barely above the level of animals. If they are Arabs, or Muslims, or in most cases Africans - they are anti-semitic, and given to accepting and pronouncing on all the popular Jewish conspiracy theories including that they bloew up the WTC towers.

[Charles Anthony]

I have dealt with many third-world immigrants over the past decades.

Are you afraid of any of them?

I hear what you are saying and I see that too. The difference is that I also see the children of immigrants and I do not believe they continue the bigotry.

Bigotry will be solved by attrition within a generation or two. The old bigots will die off.

[JerrySeinfeld]

I have dealt with many third-world immigrants over the past decades.

Are you afraid of any of them?

I hear what you are saying and I see that too. The difference is that I also see the children of immigrants and I do not believe they continue the bigotry.

Bigotry will be solved by attrition within a generation or two. The old bigots will die off.

This is complete bullshit.

I can't even believe some of the blatant unabashed racist comments I hear Canadian born childeren of immigrants spewing.

[Argus]

I have dealt with many third-world immigrants over the past decades.

Are you afraid of any of them?

I hear what you are saying and I see that too. The difference is that I also see the children of immigrants and I do not believe they continue the bigotry.

Bigotry will be solved by attrition within a generation or two. The old bigots will die off.

I am not afraid of them individually. What I am afraid of is their numbers adding up to the point where they influence the political national agenda. We're already seeing this starting to happen on a number of issues.

As for their children changing - we don't know if and when that will happen. Where immigration continues from specific countries and children grow up in nearly ethnically homogenous communities, watching satellite tv from their homelands, and going to schools which are ethnicly based, I see little likelihood of major cultural changes. Even many public schools are so heavily concentrated with ethnics it's unlikely that kids going there are going to wind up adopting a Canadian outlook on life. The public high school nearest to where I used to live was about 60% Somalian and about 25% Lebanese. How much Canadian behaviour do you think is going to rub off on the youths that attend there?

[betsy]

I have dealt with many third-world immigrants over the past decades.

Are you afraid of any of them?

I hear what you are saying and I see that too. The difference is that I also see the children of immigrants and I do not believe they continue the bigotry.

Bigotry will be solved by attrition within a generation or two. The old bigots will die off.

The bombers in London subway were British-borne! The plot that was uncovered recently involved suspects that are also borned and raised in England!

Why does it take so little to convince these young men to become traitors to England and their fellow-citizens? Loyalty could not have run that deeply...and if it does, it obviously runs deeply for another.