Homosexuality is an anomaly

[gc1765]

Homosexuality was once diagnosed as a dysfunction. I wouldn't go to the extent of calling it a dysfunction, but it is a disorder. Intercourse is designed for procreation, and homosexual intercourse cut off that possibility.

Does that make masturbation a disorder? Or using birth control a disorder?

Is homosexuality an anomaly? It's not quite normal.

The percentage of Canadians who post messages on Maple Leaf Web forums is pretty insignificant, much less than 1%. Therefore, posting messages on this board is an anomaly.

As for gay marriage, I'm against the gov't managing marriage licences as a whole. I think the gov't should recognize "single" and "civil union". There should be no need for a licence, but rather people should have the freedom to register under either status and be taxed accordingly and treated accordingly for the purpose of customs and immigration. Religious institutions should manage their own marriage licences and determine which ones they recognize from other institutions. For instance, if a muslim couple is married under Islam, then joins a Christian church, it is up to the Christian church on wheather or not their Muslim marriage certificate is recognized and it's also up to them how the marriage within that church be validated. That way, if the Anglican church chooses to marry gays, then the Catholic church could choose to not recognize Anglican marriages if they choose.

I agree! Unfortunately, I don't think many on the Christian right would go for that. They'd probably call it the death of marriage (if homosexual marriage is a threat to heterosexual marriage, imagine how much of a threat getting rid of marriage altogether would be).

I'd stop gays of adopting on the basis that they are in a relation that could never result in natural procreation

That's usually the point of adoption. If a heterosexual couple were not capable of producing kids, would you prevent them from adopting too?

[noahbody]

quote]

Does that make masturbation a disorder?

No, masterbation is actually an art. In fact, under the last government, a gentlemen was given a $25,000 grant to perform his art in front of a live audience in Banff. That was another good use of taxpayers' money.

[cybercoma]

http://jesusandmo.net/strips/2007-04-26.jpg

I think this comic nicely sums up this thread.

[ScottSA]

http://jesusandmo.net/strips/2007-04-26.jpg

I think this comic nicely sums up this thread.

What's with the leftist love of that term?

[Figleaf]

I can't speak for leftists, but in my view bigotry is the only explanation available that covers the anti-homosexual sentiments evident on this thread.

I don't say that lightly. When a poster expresses a negative view of homosexuality or of equal rights for homosexuals, and then when asked the basis for of their view or for a specification of the hazards they apprehend, they fail or refuse to give this rationale, one is left to speculate on the reasons for it.

Edit: I'm saying if you have no good reason for opposing someone, you probably have a bad reason.

[Kapitän Rotbart]

Does that make masturbation a disorder? Or using birth control a disorder?

Masturbation could also be considered a disorder... it's usually a manifestation of a psychological addiction. Birth control is not really a disorder in terms of behavior, but many forms of birth control could also be considered abortion (if conception actually does happen) and most forms of birth control are found to be harmful to one's health. I didn't intent on posting about masturbation nor birth control, those are big topics which should be saved for another post.

The percentage of Canadians who post messages on Maple Leaf Web forums is pretty insignificant, much less than 1%. Therefore, posting messages on this board is an anomaly.

Posting on a forum does not significantly change one's behavior/lifestyle/etc. Could cause an Internet addiction, but so could many websites, so that comment was more of a red herring.

I agree! Unfortunately, I don't think many on the Christian right would go for that. They'd probably call it the death of marriage (if homosexual marriage is a threat to heterosexual marriage, imagine how much of a threat getting rid of marriage altogether would be).

I don't know how popular my idea would be if proposed by the gov't of abolishing marriage recognition and leaving it up to the institutions/individuals to consider couples however they choose. It wouldn't really be 'getting rid of marriage', it would just be lowering the gov't's level of bureaucracy and leaving it up to the institutions/individuals to manage marriages by their own definitions.

That's usually the point of adoption. If a heterosexual couple were not capable of producing kids, would you prevent them from adopting too?

A heterosexual couple could be a host for procreation whereas a homosexual couple could never be a host for natural procreation between the two partners. A heterosexual couple unable to procreate should still be allowed to adopt, caeteris paribus, because they have not chosen a family status which would necessarily block off this possibility.

[AMAI]

Is being reported by Figleaf a sign that one has "arrived?" Oh, I wonder when one of my posts will be reported! *Insert emoticon of blissed excitement*

My view on homosexuality is that it is as natural as heterosexuality. It is NOT as prevalent for obvious reasons. I consider it natural because it occurs! Does that sound strange? To me, it is Nature's way of providing population control. With that said, I would not refuse gays/lesbians the right to adopt children. Being a good parent does not really have anything to do with one's sexual orientation.

Same-sex marriage need not prove disruptive to our society. It is only those who fear change, and those who fear differences in others, who balk at the idea. Making a commitment to one's partner is something that should be available to everyone. I think I would draw the line at marriages between humans and animals, although that still wouldn't prevent people from leaving their estates to their cats.

[Figleaf]

Is being reported by Figleaf a sign that one has "arrived?" Oh, I wonder when one of my posts will be reported! *Insert emoticon of blissed excitement*

Do I know you?

Do you know fu6k all?

No and no.

[Rue]

"No, you argue for the sake of out-arguing the other person, not analyzing to see who might have some common ground. Do you ever wonder why you draw the ire of so many people on this forum? You may not mean to, but you come off sounding like a know-it-all. I am not interested in trying to debate something with somebody who thinks they know it all. "

Sharkman I must say that was excellent. Hey it would be racist to call you a Great White Shark or probably be unfair to call you a Blue Shark as that would infer you are depressed or yxygen deprived, but given the line of these posts I suppose we should call you a "Tiger" Shark. You made my day.

[Rue]

Is being reported by Figleaf a sign that one has "arrived?" Oh, I wonder when one of my posts will be reported! *Insert emoticon of blissed excitement*

My view on homosexuality is that it is as natural as heterosexuality. It is NOT as prevalent for obvious reasons. I consider it natural because it occurs! Does that sound strange? To me, it is Nature's way of providing population control. With that said, I would not refuse gays/lesbians the right to adopt children. Being a good parent does not really have anything to do with one's sexual orientation.

Same-sex marriage need not prove disruptive to our society. It is only those who fear change, and those who fear differences in others, who balk at the idea. Making a commitment to one's partner is something that should be available to everyone. I think I would draw the line at marriages between humans and animals, although that still wouldn't prevent people from leaving their estates to their cats.

I completely agree with you. In regards to the reporting, you will be reported. It is only a matter of time. I like to report people on these posts to my cats by the way.

Now I want to make you feel at home so...

REPORTED!

[Rue]

quote]

Does that make masturbation a disorder?

No, masterbation is actually an art. In fact, under the last government, a gentlemen was given a $25,000 grant to perform his art in front of a live audience in Banff. That was another good use of taxpayers' money.

An art you say? Yegads. Excuse the pun but I was tempted to say I find that hard to handle as a concept.

I better get a hold of myself and stop this before I get reported for these bad puns. Also its not polite to point at people.

Man you have to be kidding but why does it not suprise me. Good grief. Am I the only one not going what?

Now I am curious, did the people watching this have rain coats or something to protect them from the fall out? Yech! I say.

[sharkman]

Sharkman I must say that was excellent. Hey it would be racist to call you a Great White Shark or probably be unfair to call you a Blue Shark as that would infer you are depressed or yxygen deprived, but given the line of these posts I suppose we should call you a "Tiger" Shark. You made my day.

I do what I can...what's this, you are taking figgy's side in something? I must pm him on this!

Hey, I've been wracking my brain trying to remember who it was that commented on their childhood saying they knew that they were gay from an early age, was it you? I only ask because cybercoma has been on my case claiming how bigotted I was to say you or he(her) was gay. Do you find me bigotted?

[Figleaf]

... Do you find me bigotted?

Here's some guidance for that question. It's sort of a 'Forest Gump' thing (so possibly too deep for you to grasp) -- bigot is as bigot does.

[sharkman]

A Forrest Gump reference? Man, at least try to stay current with your insults!

[Figleaf]

I'm sorry simple wisdom insults you.

[sharkman]

I'm not insulted by decade old references, I pity the fool that uses them as insults.

[Rue]

Sharkman I must say that was excellent. Hey it would be racist to call you a Great White Shark or probably be unfair to call you a Blue Shark as that would infer you are depressed or yxygen deprived, but given the line of these posts I suppose we should call you a "Tiger" Shark. You made my day.

I do what I can...what's this, you are taking figgy's side in something? I must pm him on this!

Hey, I've been wracking my brain trying to remember who it was that commented on their childhood saying they knew that they were gay from an early age, was it you? I only ask because cybercoma has been on my case claiming how bigotted I was to say you or he(her) was gay. Do you find me bigotted?

No. I knew I was a lesbian from an early age though. No seriously, a lot of gay people really know they are gay at a very young age. You have to believe me on that or simply talk to gay people. I have worked with a lot of young gay kids. No one puts the idea in their head. Their being gay is just who they are. There are also transgender kids who believe they should be the other sex. Gay kids don't want to change their gender, transgender kids do. Neither are faking it.

Yes there is a difference between that and say a confused adolescent or kid. Straight kids experiment and go through same sex stages. There is a difference. Skilled psychiatrists and psychologists, nurses, pediatricians know the difference.

Now as for you being a bigot I can only say this - I am a bigot, we are all bigots. Everyone of us has preconceptions and sometimes we find it hard to push ourselves out of our comfort zones on certain

issues. I only can talk about myself and I can honestly say I am a bigot a lot of times but do not mean to intentionally hurt anyone.

Many people say a lot of things that are bigoted but do they intend to deliberately hurt and hate no-they are simply doing what humans do-preconceive and work within labels and categories of generalization.

Look I am not gay and make no pretentions about how they must feel but I listen to gays. I just treat gay people the way I want to be treated. I did work in the court system with people who have been abused both straight and day. I am a lawyer with a graduate degree in Applied PSychology with training in investigating sexual predators and sex abuse but I can tell you this all the training I was given means jack shit if you don't listen to people. Most people will when you give them the chance and they do not feel they are being judged - level with you as to what is going on in their minds. with the exception of socio-paths pathological liars, and psychotic people, or people with severe mental illnesses-they will give you the time of day if you let them know you will take them as you find them and not judge them and simply listen and respect them for who they are.

For me I see gay people no differently then I do straight people other then they choose the same sex. The point is they do not have sex with children and no more have the desire to then you or me.

Yes I can tell you kids know they are gay. Of course they know. That's why it can be so hard on them. They have to keep it inside for years for fear they will get beaten up at school.

If a gay person says they know they were gay at a young age they have no reason to lie about that. Look I am not sure about you, but when I was 5 I remember this, I used to love girls and try kiss them. How is it any different?

I had a good friend in university who died of aids who told me he knew he was gay when he was very young. I have no reason not to believe him. This guy had no reason to lie to me. I would have given him my last dollar and vice versa. He was a good guy. He was just trying to explain to a bunch of us one night about when he knew he was gay. We were all sitting around in university. There was about 6 of us. It was funny because he decided that night to come out and he made this huge deal about it but we were a bunch of stoned straight guys and of course we all knew he was gay so when he made the big speech I think he got one reaction like "no kidding now sit down and pass the joint ugly".

I mean we could get into some real fancy technical explanations as to what goes into being gay. I personally believe its a biological or genetic thing.

For me, learned homo-sexuality or situational homo-sexuality such as what we see in prisons or when men are isolated from women for long periods, is not the same thing because such people revert back to hetero-sexuality when there is a supply of women again.

I also think the preference you have for a gender, is a built in sex preference and it has to do with a sex drive for people of the same age as you NOT children.

Do I think people learn their sexual behaviour? I think we learn how to consider sexuality from our parents culture, religion, environment yes but I think that is different then their inherent sex drive which is already there. Attitudes towards whether sex is dirty or normal is one thing, the preference you have is another. whether you hate someone who is different then you is one thing, who you choose to be attracted to is another.

I think some people are genuinely gay and others are genuinely bi and most of us are straight because nature intended it that way. I think how we treat each other and difference, that part is learned.

Yes some people are genuinely confused about their sexual identity but when given non judgemental counseling with a neutral person who does not impose a set of rules and simply helps them to feel comfortable with what they are, they come to what they always have been.

You have to trust me, transgendered people, people who really feel they are in the wrong body don't fake such a thing. Its genuine. Also people with a same sex preference didn't sit there one night and say -hmmm I am gonna screw people of my gender -its just there and no if you get molested by an adult of the same sex, you don't turn gay like its a contagious germ. That is not what happens.

Some people believe if at a certain stage of emotional development, a child is exposed to trauma from someone of a certain sex, it may cause them to turn away from that sex and formulate their sexual preference.

That theory is a bit different then the genetic one and its extremely complicated and not easy to define because for example a woman raped by a man as a child, may fear having sex with men and turn to women for sex, but probably if she was born straight, deep inside will still have that desire to have sex with men but repress it and eventually it comes out. As well, this notion a boy molested by an adult male will turn gay is not why they turn gay. Two seperate phenomena. They probably already were gay for other reasons. However the emotional damage to them from that adult is something else and unless you are a properly trained psychiatrist ot sex therapist you will not understand these things. They can be very complex, subtle, and hard to analyze.

Sometimes it takes many years of work with a patient to get to their true identity. You have to strip through layers of behaviour that has come about as a defence mechacnism.

Anyways that is it. I am not expert on this. I am like everyone else on these posts. I just am on the side of the debate that says gays are human beings no different then the rest of us and I don't use my religion to define them. I also am the first to admit I find penises and naked men gross but it doesn't mean I hate gays.

Also I think if it weren't for gay men, none of us straight men would know how to dress or shave.

I also think lesbians should start a program to adopt a straight man and mentor them as to how to do things properly. It would cut down on the divorce rates I think. Not that I need such training. I am from Quebec originally. we are a tad more advanced then shall we say the rest of Canada about certain practices.

Could have something to do with Celine Dion but that is all I can say for now.

You must have known at least one boy growing up who thought he was a girl or vice versa. I mean it is not as uncommon as we might think it is.

All cultures, all races, have this.

I think the aboriginals have the best way of dealing with it. They simply refer to it as someone with two spirits.

Now as for me I remember how young I was. I couldn't have been more then 6 when I fell for Diana Rigg of the Avengers and I definitely had the hots for angela cartright on Lost In Space.

[Peter F]

I couldn't have been more then 6 when I fell for Diana Rigg of the Avengers

He same with me!

[Figleaf]

I'm not insulted by decade old references, I pity the fool that uses them as insults.

Why I oughta...

[AMAI]

Thanks for the welcome, Rue. I'm wary of reporting things to my cat. She might tell the other cats outside and ... you know...

BTW, that is an excellent post just now. Looks like we're in agreement!

I'm sure it must be twice as hard to discover yourself to be gay if you're born to parents who view sex only as an acceptable activity for the purposes of procreation. How did your family handle learning that you're gay?

[Kapitän Rotbart]

For me I see gay people no differently then I do straight people other then they choose the same sex. The point is they do not have sex with children and no more have the desire to then you or me.

I see all humans alike, and many humans do have their issues. It doesn't make them sub-human. However, it seems that most pedophiles are attracted to the same sex. There's a low rate of gay people, and amongst those gay people are most child molestors. Even if I knew one was gay, I would into assume that they molest children (because there's still probably a minority of gays who are also pedophiles) but to say that gays are just as unlikely as heterosexuals to be pedophiles is probably false.

Yes I can tell you kids know they are gay. Of course they know. That's why it can be so hard on them. They have to keep it inside for years for fear they will get beaten up at school.

If a gay person says they know they were gay at a young age they have no reason to lie about that. Look I am not sure about you, but when I was 5 I remember this, I used to love girls and try kiss them. How is it any different?

The pre-pubescent cannot know if they are gay nor straight. They have not developped that part of their mind. Kids believing that they are gay prior to hitting puberty are convincing themselves that they are something that they might not really be, putting themselves through hardships for nothing. Wanting to kiss girls at 5 years old is nothing like wanting to get laid with them. Fraternal love and romantic love are two very distinct types of love (the Greeks had the 4 words for Love, we only have one).

I mean we could get into some real fancy technical explanations as to what goes into being gay. I personally believe its a biological or genetic thing.

That's a theory with no concrete proof. What came closest to proving this was an article I saw on BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5120004.stm. It has a lot to do with number of siblings, and other 'environmental factors' as I would identify them.

For me, learned homo-sexuality or situational homo-sexuality such as what we see in prisons or when men are isolated from women for long periods, is not the same thing because such people revert back to hetero-sexuality when there is a supply of women again.

Do you have a link refering to someone proving or at least claiming this? There are many cases where guys hook up with tons of ladies and eventually turn to the guy side looking for something different.

I think some people are genuinely gay and others are genuinely bi and most of us are straight because nature intended it that way. I think how we treat each other and difference, that part is learned.

I had already mentioned that there is no proof that people are born gay. Suggesting that some are born gay is almost as silly as suggesting that Calvin was right (well, the Westboro Baptist Church thinks Calvin was right...).

Yes some people are genuinely confused about their sexual identity but when given non judgemental counseling with a neutral person who does not impose a set of rules and simply helps them to feel comfortable with what they are, they come to what they always have been.

What non-judgemental counselling? All counsellors are biased. Those working as counsellors for the GLBT community are biased towards 'gay-tolerance' and will encourage one into believing that homosexuality is normal, which it isn't. A psychologist would never recommend that one starts smoking cigarettes, even if the person claims that they always knew they'd be a smoker, nor would they encourage people to join the gothic sub-culture.

You have to trust me, transgendered people, people who really feel they are in the wrong body don't fake such a thing. Its genuine. Also people with a same sex preference didn't sit there one night and say -hmmm I am gonna screw people of my gender -its just there and no if you get molested by an adult of the same sex, you don't turn gay like its a contagious germ. That is not what happens.

I'm sure transgendered people really believe that they are in the wrong body... and they are quite wrong for believing that. They have a psychological issue that needs to be sorted out. Doesn't make them bad people nor sub-human.

Being molested leaves a mark on one's mind. It's a point of no return in one's life. Those having been molested take different paths in their life than they would otherwise. Some abstain from sexual activity altogether, even though they may have become a great parent. Others usually end up quite promiscuous, and amongst them many end up gay. Not all gay people were molested as children, but there is probably a higher rate of gays molested as a child as opposed to heterosexuals molested as a child.

I also think lesbians should start a program to adopt a straight man and mentor them as to how to do things properly. It would cut down on the divorce rates I think. Not that I need such training. I am from Quebec originally. we are a tad more advanced then shall we say the rest of Canada about certain practices.

Could have something to do with Celine Dion but that is all I can say for now.

Why would training from a lesbian lower the divorce rate?! The GLBT community does not have a lower divorce rate than amongst straight people. Québec is more liberal than the RoC.

You must have known at least one boy growing up who thought he was a girl or vice versa. I mean it is not as uncommon as we might think it is.

All cultures, all races, have this.

I think the aboriginals have the best way of dealing with it. They simply refer to it as someone with two spirits.

It's even worse when people associate homosexuality as a spiritual manifestation. It's comforming to the desires of the flesh, not those of the spirit.

Many people may have a dream/fantasy of getting laid with a person of the same sex, someone much older/younger, cartoon characters, extra-terrestrial beings, etc. doesn't make these people of minority sexual orientations. It's whether they act upon these fantasies or not changes everything.

[gc1765]

I'm not insulted by decade old references, I pity the fool that uses them as insults.

Nice irony.

[Rue]

Kapitan my ference to lesbians mentoring straight men was tongue in cheek. Now as for your comment most pedophiles molest the same sex you are absolutely wrong and I wwent out of my way to probide statistics to show that is b.s. and it is b.s.80 to 90% of pedophiles are men who molest girls. Get your facts straight.

[Rue]

I couldn't have been more then 6 when I fell for Diana Rigg of the Avengers

He same with me!

I think Steed, was that his name, her partner, I think he was gay. Remember him? I am not sure he was really interested in her. He semed more interested in his clothes. I mean geez. You have her around in leather like that and he never seemed flustered. OOOOPS reported! I was joking!

But think about it, Batman and Robin, Superman and Jimmy Olsen, Wonder Women and those Amazons, Flash and Kid Flash, Green Arrow and Speedy, can you not understand? All men with boys. All gay! You see they want boys all gay men do. I give up. I give up.

[Liam]

...Hey, I've been wracking my brain trying to remember who it was that commented on their childhood saying they knew that they were gay from an early age, was it you?...

It might have been me who said that. I knew I was different at about age 3. By age 5 I knew I liked Tarzan and did not at all like Jane.