Crosses Yanked from Nov. 11 Gr. 3 Display

scribblet · November 15, 2006

I don't think there's much room in the curriculum for teaching religion, maybe it could be an option in high school.

Either way I find this pretty extreme, if I were a parent in that school I'd be rocking the boat big time.

Argus · November 15, 2006

This is utter nonsense, political correctness gone nuts.

This is not political correctness. This is most definitely political INcorrectness.

The reason I say that is because it is not a popular stance.

Political Correctness is not about what is popular with the herd, it is about what is popular with the granola cruncher set.

Argus · November 15, 2006

So? We're not allowed to express our traditions, crosses are a VERY important part of Remembrance day. Good grief it's not like they're pushing religion on anyone, how about some tolerance on the principal's part.

A cross is not "our tradition" though blueblood, it's a Christian symbol. The term "our" may be true for you, but it's not true for many others.

Historically, Canada is a Christian nation. Most likely 99% of those who fell in Canada's service in WW1 were Christians.

Canadian schools should not promote any religion over another.

Recognizing historical fact is not promoting religion.

Hydraboss · November 15, 2006

So some little immigrant can wear a dagger to school, but my kids cannot put up pictures of crosses? What part of the Middle East is this?

Absolute BS. No crosses? Then no Star of David, no kirpan's, no turbans, nothing religious or religion-related. No exceptions. No Ramadan (sp?), no Hannuka, no Christmas. Nothing.

Wanna see the east indians freak out?

This country was founded on a belief in God. Making kids deny that fact is catering to minorities for no other reason than they're minorities.

mcqueen625 · November 15, 2006

Religion should be abolished to create inclusion.
Actually, any differences between people and cultures should be eliminated.

We'll all be exactly the same shade of grey.

Fahrenheit 451...rearing its ugly head.

Funny you should suggest that because Elton John in an news article is lobbying that ALL organized religion be banned, because most religions speak out against his personal agenda which is homosexuality. At least he's not specifically picking on Christians, because it is not just the Christain religion that speaks out agianst this lifestyle. Is this also where you are coming from? God forbid someone have opinions that conflict with those of the minority.

So let's just ban everything so that all humans have no individualism, isn't that what China and other totalitarian states advocate? While we're at it we may as well nationalize all businesses and take away the money our elitists have in this country, and instead let the state provide us with everything from food to clothing, medical care, housing, etc, etc., isn't that how it was supposed to work in places like China, Cuba, North Korea, and other communist countries. Too bad they forgot their ideals, because while their leaders import expensive food and other luxuries for the consumption of themselves and those that surround them., their people starve. I don't beleive that is the kind of world most of us want. What we want is a society that is tolerant enough to allow everyone to have and express their opinions freely, without fear of being labelled a bigot or some other derogatory handle. Insn't that what our brave soldiers died for in order to preserve our freedoms. Now we have special interest groups attempting to take away those freedoms.

kimmy · November 15, 2006

In Flanders Fields the poppies grow

Between the non-denominational grave-markers, row on row

-k

mcqueen625 · November 15, 2006

So? We're not allowed to express our traditions, crosses are a VERY important part of Remembrance day. Good grief it's not like they're pushing religion on anyone, how about some tolerance on the principal's part.

A cross is not "our tradition" though blueblood, it's a Christian symbol. The term "our" may be true for you, but it's not true for many others.

Canadian schools should not promote any religion over another.

You obviously cannot read, because as someone on this thread has already stated that the poem was written to ensure that people never forgot about the sacrifices these brave men and women made so that we would have the rights we now have. It was explained that the crosses simply represent the men and women who died, and not a specific religion. I'm sure that there are non-Christian buried in Flanders Fields under those crosses, but it does not bemean or reflect on their religious beliefs. It is simply a reminder to all of us that these people died in order to preserve our freedoms, adn I'm sure if they could observe what is happening in Canada today with regards to political correctness, tehy would be shaking their heads and wondering why they even bothered to risk their lives for an ungrateful bunch of politically correct a--holes.

Canadian Blue · November 15, 2006

How is it promoting religion???

Simply showing a cross isn't promoting religion, should we stop teaching some aspects of history because they promote religion. I'm actually left of center and I hate all of this political correctness BS. We shouldn't tear up our roots in the name of political correctness.

I don't see whats wrong with religious symbols in school's, if a person sees a cross, turban, or the Star of David in a school why should they be offended. If so aren't they intolerant???

MightyAC · November 15, 2006

I don't see whats wrong with religious symbols in school's, if a person sees a cross, turban, or the Star of David in a school why should they be offended. If so aren't they intolerant???

I agree. Let kids wear "My god can kick your god's ass" t-shirts for all I care. I am opposed to public institutions teaching or favouring one religion over another but who gives a crap if a kid wears a religious symbol? Learning to accept opposing view points in the school environment will go a long way to promote tolerance.

Electric Monk · November 15, 2006

I have no problem with students wearing religious symbols in school, but in this case Canadians of many religions died to protect our freedoms, and I think it sends the wrong message to the class, and other classes who may observe the board to include only one religious symbol. Did anyone else notice that two crosses were left up? And why?

watching&waiting · November 15, 2006

This is just way too far beyond any rational thinking that people object to the crosses period. Canada needs to start shipping people back out of this country. These politiacally correct idiots should not even be given a sounding board. It comes from a peom written by a doctor who made the references during his position at Flanders fields. Get that straight all you half witted religious zealots. We will not allow the likes of you to ever change out history plain and simple. Any scholl principal who would have made the decision to remove the crosses shoudl be fired and never again be able to over see our children as they are incapable of seeing the right from the wrong. This is the public school system and it caters to the majority not the minority. If you can not put up with that then take your children out and private school them. Or better yet if you can not see your way into blending into Canadian mainstrean, then go back where you came. There should not be any debate on this. It is a historical event and the peopm was written the way it was, not to be religous. So there is no foul here but the narrow minded people who thing that they are being presecuted by seeing a cross. Well take a look at any cemetary and you will see crosses everywhere. It is not a christain thing and those who try to make it so need a hard slap in the head.

Rue · November 15, 2006

This is just way too far beyond any rational thinking that people object to the crosses period. Canada needs to start shipping people back out of this country. These politiacally correct idiots should not even be given a sounding board. It comes from a peom written by a doctor who made the references during his position at Flanders fields. Get that straight all you half witted religious zealots. We will not allow the likes of you to ever change out history plain and simple. Any scholl principal who would have made the decision to remove the crosses shoudl be fired and never again be able to over see our children as they are incapable of seeing the right from the wrong. This is the public school system and it caters to the majority not the minority. If you can not put up with that then take your children out and private school them. Or better yet if you can not see your way into blending into Canadian mainstrean, then go back where you came. There should not be any debate on this. It is a historical event and the peopm was written the way it was, not to be religous. So there is no foul here but the narrow minded people who thing that they are being presecuted by seeing a cross. Well take a look at any cemetary and you will see crosses everywhere. It is not a christain thing and those who try to make it so need a hard slap in the head.

Well actually your suggestion to start shipping people back out of here is the kind of dumb comment that I am sure no person who fought for this country in World War Two would appreciate. The last thing they need is you spewing hatred in response.

The point is, some people have turned this into a political issue by trying to suggest the cross is a Christian symbol and so if we only show the cross, then it unfairly favours one religion.

So let us deal with that postulation without engaging in equally as ignorant responses.

The point is, crosses were used during World War One and Two to commemorate war dead, the majority who were Christians. So to now censor depictions of the cross, not only denies history, but reads in a religious prejudice that does not exist.

I doubt very highly any non Christian war veteran is offended by crosses.

I think the real point is, parents who are obsessed with religious equality have to understand there is a time and place.

We are at the point now, where many parents in schools want history revised to suit their political opinions.

Sometimes we have to understand that history did contain symbols that we might today find politically inappropriate but in their time, had a different meaning.

The cross yes is a Christian symbol, but if the military knew someone was not Christian they would not put one up if I am not mistaken and if they did, surely it was not done to impose any religious belief on these brave soldiers.

I think some symbols such as the cross, became generic symbols for rememebring the dead akin to the rifle with the helmet left on the butt of the rifle.

What is really important is that we remember the effort of our veterans in the way our veterans are comfortable with the symbols.

White Doors · November 15, 2006

We are at the point now, where many parents in schools want history revised to suit their political opinions.

Sorry, but we have been beyond that point for over 20 years. They do not teach about WWI & II anymore and they haven't for quite some time. Thus we have the fallacy that Canada is a nation of 'peacekeepers'.

They have been revising the history for a long time.

watching&waiting · November 15, 2006

I do not want to water down my response as a person who had many people die in the WWII and Korea, and I was involved in the militeary for 16 years in my youth, so you are wrong when you say no one who fought in the wars would say what I said.

I come from a very proud military family and one where my descendants were of German desecent, so when they volenteered to fight in WWII they were used in the most dangerous missions and fought mostly always frontline or behind enemy lines. They were awarded many many metals for this, not that they expected any. The world was a different time and place back then, and all of this political correctness would not have been tolerated by them or the public period. There fought and died for freedom of people to live their lives as they wished. Not so they can condem the use of a cross in a childs Rememberence display. They would be the first to say that if these people can not fit into Canadian society then they should leave. So do not even go there.

This last Rememberence Day has been a real tough one on the vets. There liv ed to see white poppies being worn by people who wanted to say all war is wrong and by doing that it was a slap in the face to them. This is not the Canada they fought for. We have allowed the Canada they had in mind to be replaced by these protesting, and unknowing people, who now run their minority ways roughshod over all others. History was written on the wars and it is only now that you can see the huge efforts being made to change that. We all must learn history as it above all else teachs us about what and how we came to this point. We need to respect history and learn from it so we can not repeat tha worst of what has happened before.

The public school system iis meant to be for the majority of the public. They will learn a cirriculum that is based on the values and teachings that the majority of people believe in. If you object to this, there are options where you can teach your own child the values you like but let them know that it is not what most others believe, or have them private schooled. Any school principal that gives into being pushed to remove crosses should not be the leader of any school. Leadership means making changes that are in keeping with the majority, not giving into the minority. It is really that simple. I have had more then enough after the way this last Rememberence day has gone, that I will now and for ever more push my position that it is time for the majority to take back the country and bring back tha values that should be expected by all and that were also assumed taught by parents who should have known better.

The cross is a christain symbol only because Christ was executed on a cross. The crosses were used by the Romans and other heathen groups through out history, so it is just one of many things the cross represents. The Star of David is a hebrew symbol but does that mean all stars are the same? It is time we start doing the right thing about this and teach the children that a cross when used as a tombstone was grave marker and for each cross a man had died during the war. That is what it truly represents in the poem, but nobody seems willing to explain that to the children, who really are the ones who need to know this information. It does not matter who or what religion they were, this is howwe buried our war dead at the time. It was impossible to return bodies home from europe because people were being killed so fast that they had to be buried so not to spread disease. Maybe if we teach our children the real meaning of respect and about how the world stood up to right a wrong, and men and women fought and died to amke us free to do what we have today. Maybe then it will again sink in. Soldiers are not peacekeepers, they are there and trained to defend our country from those who would attack our way of life. We need them now more then ever because the biggest attack on our way of life is from within.

Army Guy · November 15, 2006

In this case the cross is not a christian referance, but rather an inter-national one indicating a grave marker, and is used in many different religions at the time....

During WWI most troops were buried with wooden crosses, which were later replaced with a white stone tablet, retanglar in shape with a slightly curved top after the first world war...

Starting at the center of the acrhed top is a maple leaf, below that is your religious symblom ie a cross or star of david, the other religions i'm not sure of as i did not or have not seen any other religious markings...below that is the indiv info, ie date of death, his name ,date born etc etc, then at the bottom any family remarks, ie here lies our only son etc etc

These tablets are and have been the standard since after WWI and have not changed since...and are still used today in the new war grave site in Ottawa..

Most common wealth grave sites are marked with a large cross with a sword on it...note i said most not all, and these are eurpean sites..

And everyone is right this is very stupid, but what i find disturbing is we allow it to happen, to appease whom, grade three teachers do we re-write history 100 or 200 years from now when "for sake of argument" the white christian Canadian is the minority...I'm not a racist by no means but if i'm going to sacrafice my life for Canada i want history to state exactly those events, as they happened warts and all, No one should have that power to re write history it should be taught as it actually happened so we may all learn from it....

But then again Canada is guilty of re-writing history for sometime, or conviently removing it, i'll use the latest attempt ,the Special service force as an example, or just not teaching it is another example...do we do our selfs any favours by removing it or just ignorning it....or are we doomed to repeat it...

jbg · November 16, 2006

So some little immigrant can wear a dagger to school, but my kids cannot put up pictures of crosses? What part of the Middle East is this?
Absolute BS. No crosses? Then no Star of David, no kirpan's, no turbans, nothing religious or religion-related. No exceptions. No Ramadan (sp?), no Hannuka, no Christmas. Nothing.

I totally agree. First of all, in this case the cross is part of a historical exhibit, not a religious presentation or advocacy of religion. Even if it was, were not the kirpan-wearers aware they were migrating to a country that was majority Christian?

Wanna see the east indians freak out?
This country was founded on a belief in God. Making kids deny that fact is catering to minorities for no other reason than they're minorities.

Again, not to be redundant, but did some Pakistani moving to Canada from some tribal village really think they were going to put Canada into dhimmitude? (I guess they're succeeding).

geoffrey · November 16, 2006

This can't be said to be a move to take religion out of schools. We accept religion in our public constantly... unless of course it's Christian. Your allowed to wear headscarves (a minor security concern IMO) and allow to carry a lethal weapon (a real concern). But you can't put a cross on a wall to represent a poem.

I think we need to take one side or another. Either the immigrants have to suck it up and get used to symbols of Christianity in schools, or like in France, they need to lose the headscarves and kirpans.

Borg · November 16, 2006

Good Lord!

People here arguing and agreeing and respecting the removal of the cross on a display.

I suppose we had better go to the grave sites in Europe and pull them all down. After all we might offend someone.

Give your heads a shake people.

The principal deserves a good swift kick in the ass. So do those who agree to allow this to happen at the school.

This was an assinine decision and anyone supporting this simply proves they have completely lost touch with reality.

Borg

November 16, 2006

So some little immigrant can wear a dagger to school, but my kids cannot put up pictures of crosses? What part of the Middle East is this?

Absolute BS. No crosses? Then no Star of David, no kirpan's, no turbans, nothing religious or religion-related. No exceptions. No Ramadan (sp?), no Hannuka, no Christmas. Nothing.

I totally agree. First of all, in this case the cross is part of a historical exhibit, not a religious presentation or advocacy of religion. Even if it was, were not the kirpan-wearers aware they were migrating to a country that was majority Christian?

I don't want to see dress codes based on religion. I don't want a situation here like the BA employee in the UK suspended because she wore a cross. Let people wear crosses, stars of david, turbans and other religious symbols. In college we had a nun in my class. If she can come to school in a penguin suit then I see nothing wrong with other forms of religious dress.

gerryhatrick · November 17, 2006

So? We're not allowed to express our traditions, crosses are a VERY important part of Remembrance day. Good grief it's not like they're pushing religion on anyone, how about some tolerance on the principal's part.

A cross is not "our tradition" though blueblood, it's a Christian symbol. The term "our" may be true for you, but it's not true for many others.

Canadian schools should not promote any religion over another.

You obviously cannot read, because as someone on this thread has already stated that the poem was written to ensure that people never forgot about the sacrifices these brave men and women made so that we would have the rights we now have.

I can read just fine thankyou. The poem is not relavent to the issue, which is a seperation of religion from our schools.

It was explained that the crosses simply represent the men and women who died, and not a specific religion.

It doesn't matter what you think they represent, they represent the Christian religion.

adn I'm sure if they could observe what is happening in Canada today with regards to political correctness, tehy would be shaking their heads and wondering why they even bothered to risk their lives for an ungrateful bunch of politically correct a--holes.

Perhaps it's you who cannot read, because as someone on this thead already stated this is an example of non-political correctness. The politically correct thing would have been to not remove the crosses.

Canadian Blue · November 17, 2006

I can read just fine thankyou. The poem is not relavent to the issue, which is a seperation of religion from our schools.

Yes it is, because it refers to crosses.

It doesn't matter what you think they represent, they represent the Christian religion.

Should we then get rid of the poem "In Flanders Field" due to the reference of crosses? Afterall a cross does represent christianity.

Perhaps it's you who cannot read, because as someone on this thead already stated this is an example of non-political correctness. The politically correct thing would have been to not remove the crosses.

Political correctness is trying to avoid offending people at any costs. This issue is an example of political correctness.

Political correctness (also politically correct or PC) is a term used to describe language, or behavior, which is claimed to be calculated to provide a minimum of offense, particularly to the racial, cultural, or other identity groups being described. The concept is not exclusive to the English language. A text that conforms to the ideals of political correctness is said to be politically correct.

geoffrey · November 17, 2006

It doesn't matter what you think they represent, they represent the Christian religion.

By that logic, headscarves and kirpans must be banned from public schools as they represent religion too. If your willing to go there, I'm willing to agree.

cybercoma · November 17, 2006

It doesn't matter what you think they represent, they represent the Christian religion.

By that logic, headscarves and kirpans must be banned from public schools as they represent religion too. If your willing to go there, I'm willing to agree.

By that measure, not believing in any God or having a total absence of religion is on par with atheism.... which is also a religion. Atheism needs to be banned from our schools as well... :rolleyes:

geoffrey · November 17, 2006

Public schools should be secular. If you want a religious education for your child, you should provide it at your expense in a private school. If enough people (like the Catholics) band together and have the numbers for a economically sound board, then ok, fund it.

Otherwise, kids should have place to go where people don't need to show off their religion 24/7. And I'm not speaking of the crosses, I don't think they represent Christianity in this case. I'm speaking of the head coverings and daggers.

gerryhatrick · November 17, 2006

It doesn't matter what you think they represent, they represent the Christian religion.

By that logic, headscarves and kirpans must be banned from public schools as they represent religion too. If your willing to go there, I'm willing to agree.

As long as your fine with Christian kids having to take off their cross jewelry also.