Charest says Quebec is a nation

[Leafless]

It seems Premier Charest has gotten into the Quebec nation fray and categorically states Quebec is a 'nation' and further states "And by the way, neither do I believe that Quebecer's have any permission to ask from anyone to be who they are. Period."

Seems like this is sort of playing right into the arms of the Liberals putting PM Harper in a difficult position.

This almost sounds like a planned liberal conspiracy.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...08b&k=38980

[August1991]

It seems Premier Charest has gotten into the Quebec nation fray and categorically states Quebec is a 'nation' and further states "And by the way, neither do I believe that Quebecer's have any permission to ask from anyone to be who they are. Period."

Quite apart from what Charest meant in this statement, it's obvious that Quebec is not a province like the others. Leafless, you never fail to draw reference to how distinct and different Quebec and French Canada are. At some point, "Canada" will recognize this fact too.

[geoffrey]

Quite apart from what Charest meant in this statement, it's obvious that Quebec is not a province like the others.

No two provinces are similiar. Like I've said, and many posters have agreed, Alberta is more distinct politically and culturally from Toronto than Montreal is. Why do you get a nation and we don't? Or are we prepared to see that Canada is just a collection of regional interests?

[Riverwind]

No two provinces are similiar. Like I've said, and many posters have agreed, Alberta is more distinct politically and culturally from Toronto than Montreal is. Why do you get a nation and we don't?

Why don't we just declare Quebec as one of the nations in Canada and be done with it. At some point we have ask ourselves it is really that friggen important. Furthermore, it giving in on this point might make it easier to get progress on other issues.

Better yet, why don't we declare the 'French speaking people' in this country a nation. It is quite rediculous to say that Quebec the 'province' is a nation in itself since I suspect many of the Anglos and Natives living in Quebec do not consider themselves to part of that nation. I suspect such a definition would make francophone federalists happy but would piss off seperatists.

[geoffrey]

Nah River. I take a different approach. Such an issue is such a waste of the rest of our time (what someone is called? Please, grow up now Quebec), that we can't give in. Give an inch, they'll take a mile. Next they'll want more exceptions and changes to the way French is protected in Canada, then after that more protection for their industry, then taxes on Alberta... you know, the typical Quebec agenda.

Either they are part of Canada or they aren't. I don't see a middle-ground here. If Quebec gets any special deal, I'm out. I think all provinces need to be equal partners in confederation or confederation is really the joke I've always suggested it is.

[Riverwind]

Either they are part of Canada or they aren't. I don't see a middle-ground here. If Quebec gets any special deal, I'm out. I think all provinces need to be equal partners in confederation or confederation is really the joke I've always suggested it is.

An excellent politically incorrect article by Lysiane Gagnon in the G&M today (subscribers only): http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

There's no Quebec ‘nation'

Everybody knows this, but nowadays, it is politically incorrect to refer to an ethnically based nation. The inescapable reality, though, is that the presence, in Quebec, of six million French Canadians is the only reason Quebeckers think of the province as a nation, and the reason why Quebec is the only province that has a powerful sovereigntist movement.

...

During the 1980s, ethnicity became an unsavoury concept because it smacked of ethnocentricity and xenophobia. Sovereigntist leaders replaced it with the concept of a “civic nation” that would exclusively refer to contemporary, multicultural Quebec — never mind that practically nobody outside the French-Canadian community feels part of a Quebec nation.

...

The word Québécois, or Quebecker, has two meanings: It designates the citizenry at large who share the same driver's licence and health-care card. But when it comes to identity, French Canadian and Québécois are synonyms, as in “At my school, there are more Haitians and Arabs than Québécois.” Or, speaking of a Quebec-born Jew who married a French Canadian: “He married a Québécoise.”

[Charles Anthony]

Sovereigntist leaders replaced it with the concept of a “civic nation” that would exclusively refer to contemporary, multicultural Quebec — never mind that practically nobody outside the French-Canadian community feels part of a Quebec nation.

That may be the wrong way of looking at Quebec.

I believe that the province of Quebec might have a strong appeal to people who prefer a non-American lifestyle -- that includes immigrants of all sorts. No other place in North America (except those two weird islands off the coast of Newfoundland) can look and feel like Europe the way Quebec can.

I saw the fleur de lys proudly displayed in shop windows across the river in Ottawa (outside of Quebec!) during the St. Jean de Baptiste day celebrations last year. I can not label exactly what the ethnicity of those store-owners happens to be but they write in Arabic.

[Leafless]

It seems Premier Charest has gotten into the Quebec nation fray and categorically states Quebec is a 'nation' and further states "And by the way, neither do I believe that Quebecer's have any permission to ask from anyone to be who they are. Period."

Quite apart from what Charest meant in this statement, it's obvious that Quebec is not a province like the others. Leafless, you never fail to draw reference to how distinct and different Quebec and French Canada are. At some point, "Canada" will recognize this fact too.

You would not be posting this type of response if you recognized the fact distinctness or difference is not the criteria that constitutes a nation or country but rather it's viability to survive independently, something Quebec cannot do.

In fact Quebec did come a long way since it entered confederation but at the expense of Canadians not by it's own independent ingenuity.

If you consider extortion a recognized method of creating an independent nation, I don't.

[Charles Anthony]

If you consider extortion a recognized method of creating an independent nation, I don't.

I see extortion as a commonly universal method of creating every nation.

I could not resist.

[Electric Monk]

I really wish they would stop opening this can of worms, I don't support any inequality being put into the Canadian constitution. I think it is a HUGE mistake for them to bring up this very delicate issue again.

[cybercoma]

You mean to tell me Newfoundland isn't distinct from Southwestern Ontario?

And Manitoba is just a subtle difference from British Columbia?

Quebec is only as distinct as they'd like to believe. Let's not forget a huge portion of the New Brunswick population also speaks french...

[ft.niagara]

You would not be posting this type of response if you recognized the fact distinctness or difference is not the criteria that constitutes a nation or country but rather it's viability to survive independently, something Quebec cannot do.

There are many countries smaller than Quebec and still viable. Europe is full of them.

[geoffrey]

You would not be posting this type of response if you recognized the fact distinctness or difference is not the criteria that constitutes a nation or country but rather it's viability to survive independently, something Quebec cannot do.

There are many countries smaller than Quebec and still viable. Europe is full of them.

Quebec receives massive government funding and transfers. Without it, Quebec would in some trouble.

[Charles Anthony]

Quebec is not a barren land.

With separation, whoever (single individuals or corporations) depends on government funding or transfers will either move out or starve or get a real job. How does that leave Quebec? Answer: better off and more efficient.

[Leafless]

Quebec is not a barren land.

With separation, whoever (single individuals or corporations) depends on government funding or transfers will either move out or starve or get a real job. How does that leave Quebec? Answer: better off and more efficient.

Quebec is a have not province initially.

How will removing federal funding make Quebec better off?

Removing transfer and equalization payments ALONE would cripple the province.

This is of course is excluding the massive infusion of federal aid to business and that keeps firms like Bombardier to Quebec's film making industry functional.

[Charles Anthony]

I am not going to argue whether Quebec is a have or have-not province. Whether it is or is not, I believe the same thing. Let us assume the worst case scenario: Quebec is a have-not province.

How will removing federal funding make Quebec better off?

Removing transfer and equalization payments ALONE would cripple the province.

In the case of Quebec, the people with real jobs will continue to have real jobs. The people with fake jobs (any industry or employment that depends on federal funding) will have to face the music:

1) lose their fake job and get a real job

2) move out of Quebec

Either way, the mooches and the mooching will stop. Therefore, in my opinion, the people left in Quebec will be better off.

I realize that federal waste -- or should I say: spending and funding and transfers and equalization? -- eventually spin off to benefit many other sectors of an economy. I realize that the people with real jobs will lose out too when Quebec separates. However, in my book, that is tough luck. They are partly mooching too.

Like I said before, after all of the dust settles, the only people left in Quebec are the people who do not mooch. That is a good outcome.

[Wilber]

Either they are part of Canada or they aren't. I don't see a middle-ground here. If Quebec gets any special deal, I'm out. I think all provinces need to be equal partners in confederation or confederation is really the joke I've always suggested it is.

An excellent politically incorrect article by Lysiane Gagnon in the G&M today (subscribers only): http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

There's no Quebec ‘nation'

Everybody knows this, but nowadays, it is politically incorrect to refer to an ethnically based nation. The inescapable reality, though, is that the presence, in Quebec, of six million French Canadians is the only reason Quebeckers think of the province as a nation, and the reason why Quebec is the only province that has a powerful sovereigntist movement.

...

During the 1980s, ethnicity became an unsavoury concept because it smacked of ethnocentricity and xenophobia. Sovereigntist leaders replaced it with the concept of a “civic nation” that would exclusively refer to contemporary, multicultural Quebec — never mind that practically nobody outside the French-Canadian community feels part of a Quebec nation.

...

The word Québécois, or Quebecker, has two meanings: It designates the citizenry at large who share the same driver's licence and health-care card. But when it comes to identity, French Canadian and Québécois are synonyms, as in “At my school, there are more Haitians and Arabs than Québécois.” Or, speaking of a Quebec-born Jew who married a French Canadian: “He married a Québécoise.”

Quebec can navel gaze till the cows come home, who gives a crap, they can call themselves anything they want, I just wish they would keep it to themselves.

[Darth_Vader_007]

It seems Premier Charest has gotten into the Quebec nation fray and categorically states Quebec is a 'nation' and further states

If Quebec is a seperate nation then we do not have to learn French.

I am a student in BC

I think all the provinces/territories should become the United Nations of Canada, because then we can one up the United States of America.

One of the main problems with Quebec becoming a 'nation' is that the first nations (if that is pollitically correct) will want to become a 'nation'.

I think Quebec should leave Canada, because then the west can quit Canada and stop funding the East

[geoffrey]

I don't think anywhere outside of Quebec are you forced to learn French after elementary school...

Unfortunately your forced to learn math, chemistry and english too.

Get used to it.