Muslems and Jews

[JMH]

After endless debates, truncated skirmishes and sandbox solutions, I think it's time to state the obvious; the path to peace in the middle east is WAR.............they're own war............all by themselves.

When hundreds of thousands have died through unspeakably arcane acts of butchery, the reasons for peace will become obvious to a region that seems completely out of place in modern society.

Perhaps the words of the tora and the koran will be viewed with an "evolved" perspective that is more suitable in this stage of the human development proccess.

The time has come for the "advanced world" to walk away from the "pagan world" and leave it to its own devices.

[betsy]

After endless debates, truncated skirmishes and sandbox solutions, I think it's time to state the obvious; the path to peace in the middle east is WAR.............they're own war............all by themselves.

When hundreds of thousands have died through unspeakably arcane acts of butchery, the reasons for peace will become obvious to a region that seems completely out of place in modern society.

Perhaps the words of the tora and the koran will be viewed with an "evolved" perspective that is more suitable in this stage of the human development proccess.

The time has come for the "advanced world" to walk away from the "pagan world" and leave it to its own devices.

Israel is surrounded by enemies. Although they've proven in previous wars that they can as easily hold their own, and they had won...I find it hard to just walk away. It's like seeing someone getting ganged up and mugged...and just looking the other way.

It is the idea and the reality that their enemies just want to see them all dead. How can we turn away and just let that happen?

[JMH]

After endless debates, truncated skirmishes and sandbox solutions, I think it's time to state the obvious; the path to peace in the middle east is WAR.............they're own war............all by themselves.

When hundreds of thousands have died through unspeakably arcane acts of butchery, the reasons for peace will become obvious to a region that seems completely out of place in modern society.

Perhaps the words of the tora and the koran will be viewed with an "evolved" perspective that is more suitable in this stage of the human development proccess.

The time has come for the "advanced world" to walk away from the "pagan world" and leave it to its own devices.

Israel is surrounded by enemies. Although they've proven in previous wars that they can as easily hold their own, and they had won...I find it hard to just walk away. It's like seeing someone getting ganged up and mugged...and just looking the other way.

It is the idea and the reality that their enemies just want to see them all dead. How can we turn away and just let that happen?

Israel, is the powerhouse in the region. They are quite capable of pitched battle with any and all in the middle east. Nuclear weapons allow them to keep the Saudis' out of the fold.

It's a fair fight. It's time for the talk and posturing to end and the fur to fly..........if they're willing.

[Remiel]

It would be one thing to just pull out an let them have their conventional war, but use of nuclear weapons cannot be permitted out of hand, by anyone. The more acceptable nuclear weapons become, the sooner our destruction will be at hand.

[betsy]

It would be one thing to just pull out an let them have their conventional war, but use of nuclear weapons cannot be permitted out of hand, by anyone. The more acceptable nuclear weapons become, the sooner our destruction will be at hand.

You've got to be kidding!

If you're surrounded and being ganged up on...and they're out to make your race extinct, you can use anything! You don't need the permission of anyone to live!

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Betsy,

and they're out to make your race extinct

Jews aren't a race.

[Remiel]

The Israelis don't need to use nuclear weapons to win a war, that has been proven time and time again. I don't think you really understand there terriblly excessive power of a nuclear weapon, betsy. To advocate using them as anything except a deterrent is shear lunacy. Are you a lunatic?

[betsy]

Dear Betsy,

and they're out to make your race extinct

Jews aren't a race.

Whatever.

[betsy]

The Israelis don't need to use nuclear weapons to win a war, that has been proven time and time again. I don't think you really understand there terriblly excessive power of a nuclear weapon, betsy. To advocate using them as anything except a deterrent is shear lunacy. Are you a lunatic?

If it is lunacy to want to ensure survival...well maybe I am! In your view.

I know that determination to survive is part of human nature. You're human, aren't you?

Or is it just because you aren't a Jew...therefore you don't care how it must feel to be a Jew.

[Remiel]

You have no idea what you are talking about, betsy.

[betsy]

You have no idea what you are talking about, betsy.

Is that all you have to say? We're done now?

[Remiel]

I have more to say, but they are things I will not say.

[betsy]

It's one thing if it's all conventional methods, and that Israel is allowed to fight back without restraint whatsoever...no nuclear weapons on all sides.

But how sure are we that Iran doesn't have that capability? One that can easily reach Israel?

[Remiel]

Don't you think Israel's first action would be to bomb any and every potential nuclear site belonging to Iran?

[betsy]

Don't you think Israel's first action would be to bomb any and every potential nuclear site belonging to Iran?

If Israel had its own way...and not bound to comply with any other countries' demand for restraint...we probably wouldn't be having this Mid-east headache now!

I must say that I only feel such admiration for this tiny country that sits all alone....and having this tremendous generosity and capability to hold itself in check...although it knows that it could easily squash anyone in that region.

So I guess, okay...no nuclear weapons then! BUT no more restraint demanded of Israel. Especially by the UN!

[Rue]

After endless debates, truncated skirmishes and sandbox solutions, I think it's time to state the obvious; the path to peace in the middle east is WAR.............they're own war............all by themselves.

When hundreds of thousands have died through unspeakably arcane acts of butchery, the reasons for peace will become obvious to a region that seems completely out of place in modern society.

Perhaps the words of the tora and the koran will be viewed with an "evolved" perspective that is more suitable in this stage of the human development proccess.

The time has come for the "advanced world" to walk away from the "pagan world" and leave it to its own devices.

O.K. a couple of things. Firstly Judaism and Islam are not pagan religions. Not even close. Perhaps you should find out what paganism is before you misuse the term.

Secondly, I love your superiority complex. The bottom line is you feel as a Christian you are superior to Jews and Muslims and that these two savages should be left alone to kill each other.

Thanks for the holier then thou perspective. Its good to know loving, caring, compassionate, Christians such as yourselves understand when to leave savages alone to kill themselves. I mean heaven forbid, and I mean that HEAVEN forbid, any Christians get involved in the Middle East.

I love it. Can't wait until you and your other Christians of the advanced world. cut yourselves off from the Middle East including its oil.

Yah I know, Jews and Muslims both have hook noses.

Whoopee.

[sharkman]

Rue you are out to lunch.

[Canadian Blue]

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are Abrahamic religions.

I don't know why anybody would support a massive war in order to bring out a peace that could results in hundreds of thousands fewer deaths. Why not try diplomacy???

[betsy]

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are Abrahamic religions.

I don't know why anybody would support a massive war in order to bring out a peace that could results in hundreds of thousands fewer deaths. Why not try diplomacy???

It's been tried.

Anyway, how can you really reach a diplomatic arrangement with nations whose main goal is just wanting to see you gone?

[Argus]

After endless debates, truncated skirmishes and sandbox solutions, I think it's time to state the obvious; the path to peace in the middle east is WAR.............they're own war............all by themselves.

When hundreds of thousands have died through unspeakably arcane acts of butchery, the reasons for peace will become obvious to a region that seems completely out of place in modern society.

Perhaps the words of the tora and the koran will be viewed with an "evolved" perspective that is more suitable in this stage of the human development proccess.

The time has come for the "advanced world" to walk away from the "pagan world" and leave it to its own devices.

Do you think the West is there out of some sense of nobility? We need the oil. Therefore, we need to keep the place in some semblance of stability. Having the Arabs go hari-kari-scary on the Isralis, and the Isralis bombing the crap out of Arab ports and oil facilities is not going to do the West any good, you know.

Oil is energy, and energy is the lifeblood of every western economy. I wish it weren't so, but it is.

[northstar]

After endless debates, truncated skirmishes and sandbox solutions, I think it's time to state the obvious; the path to peace in the middle east is WAR.............they're own war............all by themselves.

When hundreds of thousands have died through unspeakably arcane acts of butchery, the reasons for peace will become obvious to a region that seems completely out of place in modern society.

Perhaps the words of the tora and the koran will be viewed with an "evolved" perspective that is more suitable in this stage of the human development proccess.

The time has come for the "advanced world" to walk away from the "pagan world" and leave it to its own devices.

JMH

I can understand were you are coming from in the inital post, because it would be great if it was that simple and we could just walk away...

However, l noticed someone already addressed the "pagan" issue in that these religions are not Pagan. The Jews and Christians of Isreal, have not ever been Pagan.

And the Muslims, they follow the dellussioned Mohammad, who basically hijacked the Torah and Bible and gave his own spin on things...ala schizoprenia...that was later, much later made into a book, Quran, when it suited the warlord leaders to gather followers and troops...

[okay, this possibly could be a form of Paganism, since Allah is actually the Moon God, as admitted by Muslim Scholars}

If you think the Quran can ever be 'evolved' l suggest you take the time to read it...you can start with the chapter 9:11... I counted over 150 verses of hatred and teachings of violence, torture and how all inifdels need to be wiped off of the face of this earth...so l would be interested in hearing how exactly the Quran can be evolved.

In regard to walking away from the existing conflict their is the little snag...Nuclear warheads in the hands of Terrorists.

These Terrorists have vowed to wipe Isreal off of the map. They are raising children for Marytr-dom. In the past they had Yassar purchase the human weapons {$25,000/relative]. The roots of the terrorists are those of a fanatical faith to a 'religion' [some call a cult] that justifies actions of violence, of pretending peace as a way to manipulate a situation so they can take over, of brainwashing children to become either parents of weapons or weapons themselves, of torture, of extortion, of having sexual relations with children [which we prosecute as peophilia and child abuse], and a socieal structure that ridgidly supports and promotes all of this.

The difficulty of pulling out is hard enough, if, heaven-forbid it should happen. However the main issue here is the leadership of these Palestine and Lebanon is at the hands of Hezzbollah and Hamas both terrorist organizations with a long, long history of not settling, not taking the opportunity of peace when it was available, and not being trustworthy.

The enormous problem that is faced currently in the middle-east is that terrorists have nuclear warheads, or they are very close. The doctarines of a fanatical hatred lead by tribal and religious roots makes this a very sinister situation which can NOT be addressed by leaving them to their own devices.

So far the only consistant message that the Terrorists are sincere about, and can be counted on is that they will stop at NOTHING in order to destroy Israel and to destroy all those who have refused to tolerate acts of terrorism and hatred.

That will be just about every other country in the world...

[Rue]

Rue you are out to lunch.

Why because I find such posts absolutely ludicrous? Think about the postulation. The original post assumes Christians superior to Jews and Muslims and depicts Jews and Muslims as savages to be left to kill each other.

There is only one problem with this scenario. There is the 4,000 years of Christian persecution of Jews in Europe culminating in the holocaust which was a major catalyst for the creation of the State of Israel. For any Christian to fail to understand their religion's role in the current conflict is absolutely outrageous.

It is also outrageous for any Christian to ignore the role the Christian nations of France and Britain played in carving up puppet states in Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon which exasperated the whole mess in the first place.

And of course, now that we have decided Christians are superior and can sit back while savages kill themselves never mind the oil they need and the millions of Christians who benefit from it.

While we are on the topic, this same superior Christian can lecture me on gays, abortion, killing Christ, etc.

I am not out to lunch, just fed up with people ignorant of history, ignorant of their own religious past, ignorant of any or all religions, and basically just plain old ignorant racist.

Out to lunch....do you see me writing posts suggesting Jews are superior to Christians and Christians should be left to kill each other?

That is what is out to lunch and you bet I call the poster out on it.

And I repeat my final comment, I am sure in fact I am convinced he believes Jews and Arabs have hook noses in common. We both get circumsized too whoopee.

[Rue]

Further to my last post I want to point out another reason to condemn anyone who thinks they can write off the Middle East as a problem between to pagan savages and depict Christians as being able to sit back and watch the savages kill each other.

The ignorance of some people in regards to the Middle East staggers me. To start with there are about 35,000 Christians in the West Bank. There's also about 3,000 in Gaza and probably around 12,500 or so in East Jerusalem. The poster who started this thread seems to forget if he just lets the pagan savages kill each other, they may end up killing his fellow Christians in the process.

And once we are on that topic, Christians were murdered, raped and persecuted by the PLO in Lebanon between 1975 and 1982.

The original poster should perhaps read about how Hamas and Hezbollah have treated Christians. And before any of you tell me Christians side with the PLO, some have but things have changed because Christians have witnessed how the following sites have been damaged and treated with complete disrespect by the PLO;

Abraham's Oak

Holy Trinity Monastery

Rachel's Tomb

Joseph's Tomb

Church of St. Nicholas

Jericho Monastery

to name but a few.

Despite my anger, I happen to believe that this original poster does not speak for or on behalf of Christians. I was merely pointing out the outrageousness of his postulation.

The fact is there are many Christians living in Israel and the West Bank, and Christians also suffer from persecution by Muslims and have lived in the same apartheid dhimmitude as Jews did in the Middle East and have suffered the same persecution.

So I happen to believe this is not just a Muslim-Jewish savage fight. It is an area where all three of these

mono-theistic religions have rights and historic sites and all three must be treated with equal respect and dignity. I have said it from day l- this is not simply a cock fight between Muslims and Jews and while Christians only add up to 1.2% of the Palestinian population, they are still an historic and vital part of the equation as are Christian sites.

If the poster feels the Christian world will turn its back on Bethlehem and Nazareth and Jerusalem, three

areas of significant historical meaning to Christians, he is mistaken.

Its ridiculous it has to be Jew such as myself topoint out how important the Christian equation is in the Middle East and how it can not be forgotten and how if there is to be peace, Christians will and must play a pivotal role.

[Borg]

If the Muslim countries and their state supported terrorists ceased to attack Israel this minute, there would peace - in almost the next minute.

I doubt Isreal would arbitrarily attack any neighbour unless they had been attacked or threatened first.

Yeah, there were pre-emptive strikes during the six day war - but intelligence indicated - correctly - that massed troops and equipment plus intercepted signals showed an imminent attack.

So, let them fight and let them continue with no outside interference - it will be a blood bath that will simply have more false Canadians looking for assistance. In the end Israel will win - and the false Canadians can move back to their Muslim based homelands - for it will never fall again without massive world wide consequences.

To create peace in the middle east Israeli neighbours must simply stop kicking the bee hive.

I now fully expect to be castigated by the righteous masses.

Borg

[jbg]

After endless debates, truncated skirmishes and sandbox solutions, I think it's time to state the obvious; the path to peace in the middle east is WAR.............they're own war............all by themselves.

When hundreds of thousands have died through unspeakably arcane acts of butchery, the reasons for peace will become obvious to a region that seems completely out of place in modern society.

Perhaps the words of the tora and the koran will be viewed with an "evolved" perspective that is more suitable in this stage of the human development proccess.

The time has come for the "advanced world" to walk away from the "pagan world" and leave it to its own devices.

I would vary that a little; I would allow the civilized world to defend its representative there; if the feral beasts come to the aid of their pride or pack, the civilized world can attack other pack members.