Harper to negotiate with the NDP

[Canadian Blue]

Any thoughts?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[Ladyjen]

Any thoughts?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

IMHO, this is a positive move in the right direction.

[August1991]

This is good news and Harper is going after the weak link in the opposition chain. The NDP doesn't want an election now nor even in the Spring.

As to the environment and specifically greenhouse gas emissions, yes we have to do something but we really have to turn down the rhetoric. The world is not about to end in a few years if we do nothing.

This latest report by Nicholas Stern is conjecture upon conjecture. It would be better for all if we stayed with what we know rather than what we surmise. What we know is sufficient to justify action.

[gerryhatrick]

This is good news and Harper is going after the weak link in the opposition chain.

Global Warming is nothing but an opposition link? Just a political issue to be navigated around?

This latest report by Nicholas Stern is conjecture upon conjecture.

And you know that how? Please.

[jdobbin]

This is good news and Harper is going after the weak link in the opposition chain. The NDP doesn't want an election now nor even in the Spring.

As to the environment and specifically greenhouse gas emissions, yes we have to do something but we really have to turn down the rhetoric. The world is not about to end in a few years if we do nothing.

This latest report by Nicholas Stern is conjecture upon conjecture. It would be better for all if we stayed with what we know rather than what we surmise. What we know is sufficient to justify action.

Basically, the deal is dead. It stays dead. Layton will tell Harper to fulfill Canada's commitments. There can be no agreement between these parties.

Harper is welcome to campaign on the issue but it won't sell in Quebec or urban Toronto.

As far as Stern's report, you have read analysis to indicate he doesn't know what he is talking about?

Any actual scientists or real economists disagree with his assessment?

[Guest Warwick Green]

Basically, the deal is dead. It stays dead. Layton will tell Harper to fulfill Canada's commitments. They can be no agreement between these parties.

That's about it. Any meeting will be political posturing. Harper will say he has listened to Layton but he's not convinced to change course. Layton will accuse Harper of not caring about the environment. A photo op for both of them.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Basically, the deal is dead. It stays dead. Layton will tell Harper to fulfill Canada's commitments. They can be no agreement between these parties.

This is a big test of Layton's maturity as a leader.

Harper will not put Kyoto on the table. If Layton pushes for that there will be no deal. If Layton recognizes the situation and helps build a *made-in-Canada* solution he can help really hurt the Liberals.

If the NDP can come to an agreement on this the Liberals are f*cked. Layton looks more palatable to centre-left persuadable Liberal voters and Harper looks more attracative to centre-right persuadable Liberal voters.

Man, oh man this is very good news for everybody but the Liberals...

[jdobbin]

That's about it. Any meeting will be political posturing. Harper will say he has listened to Layton but he's not convinced to change course. Layton will accuse Harper of not caring about the environment. A photo op for both of them.

I don't even know why Harper asked for or agreed to a meeting. Layton will show him the Stern Report and Harper will have to say whether he believes in it or not.

[B. Max]

Again it's all based on computer models that have to be sabotaged to come up with the desired predetermined conclusion. When they do that their models won't match the known historical temperature records.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...nclimate129.xml

[August1991]

Basically, the deal is dead. It stays dead. Layton will tell Harper to fulfill Canada's commitments. There can be no agreement between these parties.

But what are the "commitments", Dobbin? Under Kyoto, the only way Canada could come close to meeting commitments was to buy offsets abroad - and that's a political non-starter in Canada.

The NDP doesn't want an election now nor in the Spring and the NDP is not afraid of being tainted with association to power if it achieves some of its agenda.

The question is what kind of agreement can Harper and Layton come up with? They are both pragmatist in that they won't settle for mere window dressing (which is what the Liberals gave us - One Tonne Challenge and all).

Global Warming is nothing but an opposition link? Just a political issue to be navigated around?

To get any policy through the House requires about 153 Yeas. Otherwise, we might as well discuss the sex of angels.

This latest report by Nicholas Stern is conjecture upon conjecture.

And you know that how? Please.

Making predictions about how human-caused greenhouse gas emissions affect the atmosphere and the planet's surface temperature is already difficult to figure. To then make projections about how a rise in surface temperature would affect the earth's geography is another heroic step. Finally, to put a dollar value on these changes is to leap into the economist's world of pure assumptions or "let's assume we have a can opener".

Stern thinks that employing shock value to attract attention is a worthy means justifying a good end. Academics are notoriously bad at public relations and British academics among the worst. This report is being released with the hope that it will influence the US Congressionals and the upcoming British elections. Instead, it will just debase the currency of environmentalists.

[August1991]

I don't even know why Harper asked for or agreed to a meeting. Layton will show him the Stern Report and Harper will have to say whether he believes in it or not.

According to the CBC, it was Layton who first suggested the meeting:

Referring to the Tories' clean air act as "dead in the water," Layton asked the prime minister during question period if he's ready to meet with the NDP "in the next 24 hours to construct a plan to deal with climate change that will pass this House."

"I wouldn't do it in a hotel room in Toronto," Harper joked, a reference to the budget deal Layton negotiated with former prime minister Paul Martin last year.

Harper said his government is determined to move ahead with a long-term plan to reduce emissions of smog and greenhouse gasses.

"But if the NDP wanted to sit down and discuss how we can do that better, I'm certainly willing to do that with them."

[gc1765]

So, some posters here refer to Jack Layton as Taliban Jack because he wants to negotiate with the taliban. Now, Harper wants to negotiate with Taliban Jack...does that mean those posters will now have to call Harper "Taliban Harper"

Just kidding.

[jdobbin]

Again it's all based on computer models that have to be sabotaged to come up with the desired predetermined conclusion. When they do that their models won't match the known historical temperature records.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...nclimate129.xml

Richard Lindzen is paid by the oil industry to comment. He has been paid by OPEC in the past.

Lindzen is incorrect on warming and has been for some time.

[jdobbin]

According to the CBC, it was Layton who first suggested the meeting.

Layton was pulling Harper's leg. Hard to believe he accepted it.

[B. Max]

Again it's all based on computer models that have to be sabotaged to come up with the desired predetermined conclusion. When they do that their models won't match the known historical temperature records.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...nclimate129.xml

Richard Lindzen is paid by the oil industry to comment. He has been paid by OPEC in the past.

Lindzen is incorrect on warming and has been for some time.

I don't care who he is paid by. The facts are the facts. Put up the proof of man made global warming.

[jdobbin]

I don't care who he is paid by. The facts are the facts. Put up the proof of man made global warming.

I haven't seen any facts. He keeps pointing to data which was incorrect and he knows it.

[jdobbin]

But what are the "commitments", Dobbin? Under Kyoto, the only way Canada could come close to meeting commitments was to buy offsets abroad - and that's a political non-starter in Canada.

The NDP doesn't want an election now nor in the Spring and the NDP is not afraid of being tainted with association to power if it achieves some of its agenda.

The question is what kind of agreement can Harper and Layton come up with? They are both pragmatist in that they won't settle for mere window dressing (which is what the Liberals gave us - One Tonne Challenge and all).

Making predictions about how human-caused greenhouse gas emissions affect the atmosphere and the planet's surface temperature is already difficult to figure. To then make projections about how a rise in surface temperature would affect the earth's geography is another heroic step. Finally, to put a dollar value on these changes is to leap into the economist's world of pure assumptions or "let's assume we have a can opener".

Stern thinks that employing shock value to attract attention is a worthy means justifying a good end. Academics are notoriously bad at public relations and British academics among the worst. This report is being released with the hope that it will influence the US Congressionals and the upcoming British elections. Instead, it will just debase the currency of environmentalists.

Using Thomas Moore to discredit Stern is funny.

Moore is the author of Climate of Fear: Why We Shouldn't Worry about Global Warming (Cato Institute, 1998), In Sickness or in Health: The Kyoto Protocol versus Global Warming (Hoover Essays in Public Policy, 2000), Global Warming: A Boon to Humans and Other Animals (Hoover Essays in Public Policy, 1995), and Environmental Terrorism (Hoover Essays in Public Policy, 1994).

Layton doesn't have to have an election on this. He can draw it out and then call Harper a ditherer. The Free Press already asked the question of who dithered most in a Paul Samyn opinion piece. Harper is using the same arguments that Martin made when he was in a minority. He blames the opposition for not getting anything done. Sorry about that. It's called a minority.

Layton is not a pragmatist. He is calling for an immediate pull-out from Afghanistan. Perhaps Harper can come to an understanding on that too.

This will be a move that ultimately will embarrass Harper unless he accepts the original Kyoto agreement and even goes beyond that.

[B. Max]

I don't care who he is paid by. The facts are the facts. Put up the proof of man made global warming.

I haven't seen any facts. He keeps pointing to data which was incorrect and he knows it.

What incorrect data.

[gerryhatrick]

Again it's all based on computer models that have to be sabotaged to come up with the desired predetermined conclusion. When they do that their models won't match the known historical temperature records.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...nclimate129.xml

Richard Lindzen is paid by the oil industry to comment. He has been paid by OPEC in the past.

Lindzen is incorrect on warming and has been for some time.

I don't care who he is paid by. The facts are the facts. Put up the proof of man made global warming.

Do you need us to prove the earth is flat for you at the same time?

[B. Max]

Do you need us to prove the earth is flat for you at the same time?

No I need you to provide the proof of man made global warming. Not phony computer models that have to sabotaged to give the answer their looking for.

[hiti]

The One Tonne Challenge made more sense than this Hot Air Act of Steve's. At least with the One Tonne Challenge everyone can start now instead of waiting until 2050 to:

* Turn off the lights when you leave the room

* Car pool, walk or ride your bike as much as possible

* Turn off the water when you brush your teeth

* Reduce, reuse, and recycle as many items as possible

[cybercoma]

According to the CBC, it was Layton who first suggested the meeting.

Layton was pulling Harper's leg. Hard to believe he accepted it.

This is exactly it. I watched this transpire on CPAC and it was obvious that Layton was just prodding at Harper. Harper called him on it and I'm pretty certain absolutely nothing will come of it IF there's even a meeting.

[jdobbin]

No I need you to provide the proof of man made global warming. Not phony computer models that have to sabotaged to give the answer their looking for.

Shown you it a few times but you refuse to believe.

You keep saying the information is sabotaged.

[jdobbin]

What incorrect data.

I've shown you that as well. You seem to think it is some sort of conspiracy.

[gerryhatrick]

Do you need us to prove the earth is flat for you at the same time?

No I need you to provide the proof of man made global warming. Not phony computer models that have to sabotaged to give the answer their looking for.

Two things:

1. Global Warming is happening and it's man made.

2. Learn how to quote.