Bob Rae out ahead in poll of Canadians

[Michael Hardner]

What about the part where the rate went from 15 % to 15.5 % mid-2006 ?

[Dump Bees]

I think the Liberals are living in a cloud cuckoo land if they think that Rae is the answer to their problems. In fact the same could be said for any of the leadership contenders IMO. Harper will have my vote for the next election. I am getting tired of the chicken littles in this country constantly crying about how evil the man is. I just don't see it.

The Liberals need to spend some more time in the political wilderness before they get my vote again. I am looking for the next Liberal leadership convention when hopefully some quality candidates will come to the fore.

I mean I am an unionized trades person with a son in daycare and I still can't stomach the thought of the Liberals forming the next government.

[scribblet]

MH, no matter what it seems every thread simply turns into petty insults and debate between the Harper haters and the Harper lovers.

Well, I agree, but I also notice that the forums seem to have changed recently, not the same level of debate. They seemed to have disinegrated into nothing but malicious partisan Harper bashing just for the sake of bashing.

cheers

[scribblet]

What about the part where the rate went from 15 % to 15.5 % mid-2006 ?

quote:

In 2005, under the Liberals, the lowest tax rate was 16% until their asses were on the line and they put in a last minute tax reduction to 15%. They actually didn't raise the tax,, they just revised a 1% decrease to a 0.5% decrease.

In 2005, GST was still 7%.

In 2005, working people didn’t have the $1000 annual tax credit.

In 2005, parents couldn’t claim their kids sports.

In 2005, trades people couldn’t claim the expense of their tools.

In 2005, seniors only had a $1000 tax credit - not it’s $2000 annual tax credit.

In 2005, after death bed conversion, Liberals lowered the lowest rate to 15% from 16%. Conservative kept 1/2 of the reduction.

So generally speaking, overall, people will pay less tax

[Michael Hardner]

So generally speaking, overall, people will pay less tax

I think that remains to be seen. But it might be true. In any case, I think raising or lowering the rate that justifiably be called 'raising taxes' or 'lowering taxes'. That seems fair.

[scribblet]

So generally speaking, overall, people will pay less tax

I think that remains to be seen. But it might be true. In any case, I think raising or lowering the rate that justifiably be called 'raising taxes' or 'lowering taxes'. That seems fair.

I guess we won't really know for a while, however, Harper told us up front during the campaign what would happen, he never said he would keep the Liberals last minute campaign changes. Changes which they made during the campaign and rammed through parliament quickly. Too late I believe for the CPC to change their platform.

The Liberals lowered taxes for 2006, not 2005, and Harper's tax changes shouldl negate, or in some cases actually exceed the slight raising of the income tax for that bracket. I believe they raised the minimum exemption for when the 15.5% rate will kick in which would be a tax cut in effect.

CBC News reported Kenny saying:

"We would suspend [the Liberals] future measures in order to deliver broad-based and responsible tax relief, which will ultimately save Canadians more in their taxes and will be affordable in terms of the delivery of federal services,"

I think most of this depends on which side of the fence you are on, and how partisan or biased one's take on the situation is.

[sharkman]

Back to Bob, I just heard an interview of him by Bill Good on his radio program. When asked about his dismal time as premier of Ontario, he blamed the recession of '89. I am not making this up. He went so far as to call the recession a perfect storm.

The last time I checked, recessions were a normal part of the business cycle. Governments have been operating through recessions since Canada began. Our own BC premier whipped our province into shape in 2 years or so. But Bob couldn't handle a normal part of the cycle and he was in power for 5 years.

Personally, I wonder if he's holding back, and that he's got more to say about his term, because that is really weak. It's actually pathetic, and as a conservative I really hope he wins the leadership race.

[Michael Hardner]

The recession started around mid-1991, I think. Rae spent a lot of his time trying to save jobs in Northern Ontario. Perhaps it was a good thing to do, but the rest of the province lacked attention as a result.

[normanchateau]

Our own BC premier whipped our province into shape in 2 years or so.

Did he govern during a recession?

Increased oil and gas revenues might have helped a little.

[sharkman]

The recession started around mid-1991, I think. Rae spent a lot of his time trying to save jobs in Northern Ontario. Perhaps it was a good thing to do, but the rest of the province lacked attention as a result.

Bob referenced the year '89. Perhaps that's when it started.

Norm, our province was in sorry shape by the time the Liberals came to power. We were having population shrinkage, something that hasn't been seen in BC for ages. Companies were actually moving their head offices out of BC to avoid the tax scheme set up by the previous government, and we had a huge deficit.

There was a small recession in '98, but our bigger problems were as I mentioned.

[gc1765]

Harper did not raise taxes. The Tories replaced the Liberals, so ideas, policies and programs proposed by the Liberals, but which had not yet been implimented could be cancelled and replaced by Tory proposals. Nothing unusual about this. The tax cut proposed by the Liberals was essentially an election promise. Surprise, surprise, when they did not get elected, that promise was NOT carried out by the tories.

Is this too complicated for you folks?

With Paul Martin's minority government facing the threat of defeat within days, Finance Minister Ralph Goodale has introduced a package that combines voter-friendly income tax cuts along with corporate tax cuts and new spending on education, immigration and trade.

The tax cuts were proposed in mid November. Very shortly thereafter we were in an election.

Goodale proposes tax cuts on election eve

"Which had not been implemented"? How does this misinformation spread?

Here's the facts from the Canada Revenue Agency:

Federal tax rates for 2005 are:

15% on the first $35,595 of taxable income;

22% on the next $35,595 of taxable income;

26% on the next $44,549 of taxable income; and

29% of taxable income over $115,739.

Link

That's not even considering the fact that Harper also lowered the basic personal exemption (after adjustment for inflation).

[geoffrey]

The government is collecting more money, the tax burden has increased faster than inflation. I need no further figures, Harper raised taxes.

[Mimas]

Back to Bob, I just heard an interview of him by Bill Good on his radio program. When asked about his dismal time as premier of Ontario, he blamed the recession of '89. I am not making this up. He went so far as to call the recession a perfect storm.

The last time I checked, recessions were a normal part of the business cycle. Governments have been operating through recessions since Canada began. Our own BC premier whipped our province into shape in 2 years or so. But Bob couldn't handle a normal part of the cycle and he was in power for 5 years.

Personally, I wonder if he's holding back, and that he's got more to say about his term, because that is really weak. It's actually pathetic, and as a conservative I really hope he wins the leadership race.

First, while recessions are part of the normal business cycle, the 1990-92 recession was the deepest in Canada since the Great Depression.

Second, Conservative Brian Mulroney didn't handle it much better at all. It took until about 1995 for Paul Martin to "whip Canada into shape".

Your claims that dealing with a deep recession is so easy are what's pathetic here. You must have a couple of Ph.D.s in Economics and a Nobel prize.

[Mimas]

The recession started around mid-1991, I think. Rae spent a lot of his time trying to save jobs in Northern Ontario. Perhaps it was a good thing to do, but the rest of the province lacked attention as a result.

A recession is defined as a decline in the GDP for two or more consecutive quarters. This occurred in 1990 and in 1992, so it was two recessions. But really, the economy stagnated starting in 1990 all the way to 1993. It wasn't until 1995 that it became clear that the economy was on the mend. It was the worst recession in Canada since the Great Depression.

[Mimas]

What about the part where the rate went from 15 % to 15.5 % mid-2006 ?

quote:

In 2005, under the Liberals, the lowest tax rate was 16% until their asses were on the line and they put in a last minute tax reduction to 15%. They actually didn't raise the tax,, they just revised a 1% decrease to a 0.5% decrease.

In 2005, GST was still 7%.

In 2005, working people didn’t have the $1000 annual tax credit.

In 2005, parents couldn’t claim their kids sports.

In 2005, trades people couldn’t claim the expense of their tools.

In 2005, seniors only had a $1000 tax credit - not it’s $2000 annual tax credit.

In 2005, after death bed conversion, Liberals lowered the lowest rate to 15% from 16%. Conservative kept 1/2 of the reduction.

So generally speaking, overall, people will pay less tax

The fact is that Martin's reduction of that rate from 16% to 15% was implemented and if he had been elected it would have stayed that way. Harper raised that rate from 15% to 15.5%. That's a tax increase!

Next, Harper decided to tax income trusts despite promising not to do so.

All the tax credits you are talking about affect relatively small number of people. All of them taken together will amount to less than 10% of the income trust tax (in $$). The income tax raise and the GST drop affected everyone and most Canadians got a larger income tax increase than GST cuts - so most Canadians are in the red on that one. As for the change in tax brackets, well they change every year with inflation. No tax cuts there. Overall, Canadians are paying more taxes now compared to before the election. Period!

[sharkman]

since this thread is also about Bob Rae, does anyone think he WON'T raise taxes if he becomes dear leader?

All this whining about 1 % under Harper will be forgotten if Bobbie gets into office. His record speaks for itself, and it's kind of scary.

[Michael Hardner]

since this thread is also about Bob Rae, does anyone think he WON'T raise taxes if he becomes dear leader?

Well, he says he wont. His site mentions 'prosperity' quite a bit...

[Riverwind]

since this thread is also about Bob Rae, does anyone think he WON'T raise taxes if he becomes dear leader?

Why would he? Liberals have been cutting taxes for years under Chertien/Martin. There is no reason to believe that trend would end with any new Liberal leader. Can you actually back up your attempt at mudslinging with quotes or policy statements from Rae since he began his campaign to becme Liberal leader? I doubt it.

[sharkman]

since this thread is also about Bob Rae, does anyone think he WON'T raise taxes if he becomes dear leader?

Why would he? Liberals have been cutting taxes for years under Chertien/Martin. There is no reason to believe that trend would end with any new Liberal leader. Can you actually back up your attempt at mudslinging with quotes or policy statements from Rae since he began his campaign to becme Liberal leader? I doubt it.

Look around pal, if you think I'm mudslinging you're going to get dirty.

The point about Rae, and all politicians really, is to predict what they WILL do, not what they say they'll do. The leftwingers did this during the last election, remember?

[Canadian Blue]

I think the Liberals will do better with Rae than Ignatieff though. Despite Raes record the Liberal leadership candidates aren't offering much, and the two who would probably be the best bet to lead the part Kennedy and Dion aren't even considered in a position to win it.

I'm not too impressed with Rae's preformance. What I'd question most is if he would be willing to do what is NECESSARY during a recession. Meaning government cutbacks, or perhaps raising taxes which would do more harm for the economy.

[normanchateau]

The fact is that Martin's reduction of that rate from 16% to 15% was implemented and if he had been elected it would have stayed that way. Harper raised that rate from 15% to 15.5%. That's a tax increase!

I love it. Even when faced with the facts, some Harper supporters continue outrageously to deny that Harper raised the personal income tax rate from 15% to 15.5% on July 1, 2006. Anyone on this board who filed a T1 General tax return in 2005 can simply look at the page on the form labelled Federal Tax-Revised Schedule 1. The lowest income tax rate was 15% for all of 2005.

[Michael Hardner]

continue outrageously to deny that Harper raised the personal income tax rate from 15% to 15.5%

The thing is, Norm, it's kind of a hollow victory. If he raised taxation overall, then the statement is technically true, but doesn't convey the full picture. Similarly, proponents of Harper can claim that he 'lowered the overall effective tax rate' or somesuch and also be right.

[Mimas]

since this thread is also about Bob Rae, does anyone think he WON'T raise taxes if he becomes dear leader?

All this whining about 1 % under Harper will be forgotten if Bobbie gets into office. His record speaks for itself, and it's kind of scary.

He won't dare raise taxes. Besides he doesn't need to. He is not facing a deep recession resulting in huge deficits. He is looking at a surplus. Why would he raise taxes and risk having his head chopped off?

[sharkman]

Why would he? Because he's a socialist. First will come the upramping of several huge government programs and budgets, next will come a desire to have the 'rich' and corporations(probably anyone making over 60 grand) pay their fair share, which are code words designed to whip up class envy and therefore win support. Oh, and probably a tick upward on the GST. When the recession hits then the real spending will begin. Kind of like in Ontario.

[Argus]

The fact is that Martin's reduction of that rate from 16% to 15% was implemented and if he had been elected it would have stayed that way.

The tax cut was announced on November 14th. The government fell less than two weeks later. I suppose it's technically possible to ram legislation through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd reading of the House, through the committee process, and through the Senate in under two weeks but - I doubt it.