The Greatest Crisis In Modern History

[PolyNewbie]

jdobbin:I see the pictures but I'm no expert in analyzing these things.

Can you tell your neighbor apart from a co worker or stranger by looking at them. Yes you are an expert at facial recognition.

For what reason did they invade then? It certainly can't be a pipeline of oil.

Pipeline of gas, heroine revenue, working for the IMF to get Afgans paying income tax on their labours,depopulation,the list goes on.

[jdobbin]

Can you tell your neighbor apart from a co worker or stranger by looking at them. Yes you are an expert at facial recognition.

Pipeline of gas, heroine revenue, working for the IMF to get Afgans paying income tax on their labours,depopulation,the list goes on.

Actually, I have a hard time recognizing people, especially if they have a beard or no beard or their hair has changed.

None of those reason seem big enough to have thousands of troops in the country. Heroine we were getting anyways, a pipeline really doesn't seem to benefit anyone except those on either side of it or where it crosses. The IMF hasn't indicated any interest in Afghanistan as far as I know. I've never heard a depopulation argument before.

[Canadian Blue]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html

Well, here you go.

I'm sure that you will try to attack me and give a youtube video or some obscure site. But I trust the information above more then something a crackpot said.

Air Crash Analysis

Cleveland Center regional air traffic control

Bill Crowley special agent, FBI

Ron Dokell president, Demolition Consultants

Richard Gazarik staff writer, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Yates Gladwell pilot, VF Corp.

Michael K. Hynes, Ed.D.,

ATP, CFI, A&P/IA president, Hynes Aviation Services; expert, aviation crashes

Ed Jacoby Jr. director,

New York State Emergency Management Office (Ret.); chairman, New York State Disaster Preparedness Commission (Ret.)

Johnstown-Cambria County Airport Authority

Cindi Lash staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Matthew McCormick manager, survival factors division, National Transportation Safety Board (Ret.)

Wallace Miller coroner, Somerset County, PA

Robert Nagan meteorological technician, Climate Services Branch, National Climatic Data Center

Dave Newell director, aviation and travel, VF Corp.

James O’Toole politics editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Pennsylvania State Police Public Information Office

Jeff Pillets senior writer,

The Record, Hackensack, NJ

Jeff Rienbold director, Flight 93 National Memorial, National Park Service

Dennis Roddy staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Master Sgt. David Somdahl public affairs officer,

119th Wing, North Dakota

Air National Guard

Mark Stahl photographer; eyewitness, United Airlines Flight 93 crash scene

Air Defense

Lt. Col. Skip Aldous (Ret.) squadron commander,

U.S. Air Force

Tech. Sgt. Laura Bosco public affairs officer,

Tyndall Air Force Base

Boston Center regional air traffic control

Laura Brown spokeswoman,

Federal Aviation Administration

Todd Curtis, Ph.D. founder, Airsafe.com; president, Airsafe.com Foundation

Keith Halloway public affairs officer, National Transportation Safety Board

Ted Lopatkiewicz director, public affairs, National Transportation Safety Board

Maj. Douglas Martin public affairs officer,

North American Aerospace Defense Command

Lt. Herbert McConnell public affairs officer,

Andrews AFB

Michael Perini public affairs officer, North American Aerospace Defense Command

John Pike director, GlobalSecurity.org

Hank Price spokesman, Federal

Aviation Administration

Warren Robak RAND Corp.

Bill Shumann spokesman,

Federal Aviation Administration

Louis Walsh public affairs officer, Eglin AFB

Chris Yates aviation security editor, analyst, Jane’s Transport

Aviation

Fred E.C. Culick, Ph.D., S.B., S.M. professor of aeronautics, California Institute of Technology

Robert Everdeen public affairs, Northrop Grumman

Clint Oster professor of public and environmental affairs, Indiana University; aviation safety expert

Capt. Bill Scott (Ret. USAF) Rocky Mountain bureau chief, Aviation Week

Bill Uher News Media Office, NASA Langley Research Center

Col. Ed Walby (Ret. USAF)

director, business development, HALE Systems Enterprise, Unmanned Systems, Northrop Grumman

Image Analysis

William F. Baker member, FEMA Probe Team; partner, Skidmore, Owings, Merrill

W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. senior vice president, CTL Group; director,

FEMA Probe Team

Bill Daly senior vice president, Control Risks Group

Steve Douglass image analysis consultant, Aviation Week

Thomas R. Edwards, Ph.D. founder, TREC; video forensics expert.

Ronald Greeley, Ph.D. professor of geology, Arizona State University

Rob Howard freelance photographer; WTC eyewitness

Robert L. Parker, Ph.D. professor of geophysics,

University of California, San Diego

Structural Engineering / Building Collapse

Farid Alfawakhiri, Ph.D. senior engineer, American Institute of Steel Construction

David Biggs, P.E. structural engineer, Ryan-Biggs Associates; member, ASCE team for FEMA report

Robert Clarke structural engineer, Controlled Demolitions Group Ltd.

Glenn Corbett technical editor, Fire Engineering; member, NIST advisory committee

Vincent Dunn deputy fire chief (Ret.), FDNY; author, The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety

John Fisher, Ph.D. professor of civil engineering, Lehigh University; professor emeritus, Center for Advanced Technology; member, FEMA Probe Team

Ken Hays executive vice president, Masonry Arts

Christoph Hoffmann, Ph.D. professor of computer science, Purdue University; project director, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Allyn E. Kilsheimer, P.E.

CEO, KCE Structural Engineers PC; chief structural engineer, Phoenix project; expert in blast recovery, concrete structures, emergency response

Won-Young Kim, Ph.D. seismologist, Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University

William Koplitz photo desk manager, FEMA

John Labriola freelance photographer, WTC survivor

Arthur Lerner-Lam, Ph.D. seismologist; director,

Earth Institute, Center for Hazards and Risk Research, Columbia University

James Quintiere, Ph.D. professor of engineering, University of Maryland member, NIST advisory committee

Steve Riskus freelance photographer; eyewitness, Pentagon crash

Van Romero, Ph.D. vice president, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology

Christine Shaffer spokesperson, Viracon

Mete Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. Kettelhut Distinguished Professor of Structural Engineering, Purdue University; member, Pentagon Building Performance Report; project conception, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Shyam Sunder, Sc.D.

acting deputy director, lead investigator, Building and Fire Research Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology

Mary Tobin science writer, media relations, Earth Institute, Columbia University

Forman Williams, Ph.D. professor of engineering, physics, combustion, University of California,

San Diego; member, advisory committee, National Institute of Standards and Technology

[kimmy]

So, uh, can anybody explain to me what the "Greatest Crisis in Modern History" is without me having to sit through 3 hours and 22 minutes of Lyndon Larouche? The Coles Notes version will do just fine.

-k

[PolyNewbie]

The crisis is the loss of our manufactering economy and its replacement by a service economy. The loss is the knowledge that is associated with the manufactering economy. We are becomming a nation of people who serve coffee at every corner and buy everything useful from China.

Its about the most interesting thing I have ever heard on the web. LaRouche has real wisdom because he has been around for a long time.

[PolyNewbie]

jdobbin:Actually, I have a hard time recognizing people, especially if they have a beard or no beard or their hair has changed.

But you can tell a black man from one of middle eastern decent.

[jdobbin]

But you can tell a black man from one of middle eastern decent.

It's a poor quality video. I can't really tell. Does he stand in the video? It is a little hard to hide one's height.

[Charles Anthony]

The loss is the knowledge that is associated with the manufactering economy. We are becomming a nation of people who serve coffee at every corner and buy everything useful from China.

Knowledge is free and it is not lost. If a Canadian manufacturer costs more to produce the same product, I would rather buy a cheaper import. I do not feel that I owe the Canadian manufacturer a job any more than I owe the Chinese manufacturer a job.

Its about the most interesting thing I have ever heard on the web. LaRouche has real wisdom because he has been around for a long time.

LaRouche is an autarkist who believes in restricting trade. Do you believe Canada should do the same? Do you believe in free international trade?

[PolyNewbie]

Canadian Blue: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...aw/1227842.html

Your list was just copied from the popular mechanics site.

This report if full of what is called "straw men" - first of all they do not debunk the major issues of 911 such as the collapse of wtc7 and the issues they do bring up are often both tertiary and misrepresented. This popular mechanics article is an exercise in propoganda. If you want to start a thread on that I will be happy to easily rip it apart point by point - from memory without doing any research. Hearst corp owns popular mechanics and it has strong connections to Bush admin in business and in blood relations

Rather than rip your list of 100 or so people that mostly consist of low level public relations officers, technicians, newspaper men, photo desk supervisors and air craft controllers, I'll give you a list here of high level insiders from the White House ranging from colonels in the army to senators to presidential advisors.

There are no "low level" people on this list. Perhaps you haven't seen it:

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

So what do you think of these people when compared to the ones on your list ? You can look at their resumes and read their statements directly. Think about the fact that non of these people had anything to gain by stepping up, many in your list would lose their jobs if they stated 911 was an inside job, they certainly would not get 911 related contracts from the government.

For the three sources that support 911:

911Myths: No name associated with site. Multiple false claims about the 911 truth movement.

NIST Report: Directed by Philip Zelikow, whose wiki reference shows that he primarily is an expert in maintaining public myths

Popular Mechanics: Start a separate thread. I'll knock that apart piece by piece from memory and use the report itself to show that it is being intentionally misleading.

[PolyNewbie]

Canadian Blue:

One of the above signers of the petition said this:

Melvin A. Goodman – Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst at the Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1966 - 1990. Senior Analyst at the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974-1976. Professor of International Security at the National War College 1986-2004. Currently Senior Fellow at the Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations at Johns Hopkins University. He is the author and co-author of five books on international relations.

Congressional testimony 7/22/05: "I want to talk about the [9/11] Commission itself, about the flawed process of the Commission and finally about the conflict of interest within the Commission that is extremely important to understand the failure of the Commission." http://www.house.gov/...

-His qualifications are average for this list. Others say similar things about the 911 report.

None have anything to gain by speaking up about this, unlike your list where everyone has something to gain by supporting the official version - from keeping their jobs to getting gov contracts.

[Canadian Blue]

Whats the point of debating, pretty well everything that shows your wrong is somehow flase due to the supposed involvement of the Bush administration or some other wacko conspiracy theory.

Was that website patriots9/11 questioning whether or not terrorists perpetrated 9/11, or if the government could have done more in relation to 9/11.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4162315283354424113

http://www.debunking911.com/

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID...E1583414B7F0000

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...1531315,00.html

http://www.911myths.com/

By the way I think a few of you will enjoy this video and can relate.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4162315283354424113

For everbodies enjoyment, here are a few conspiracy theories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

[PolyNewbie]

Canadian Blue:

When I can produce a list of that many Brigadier Generals, White House head economists, Senators, Congressman, Heads of CIA, Heads of FBI, & Phd level engineers that think 911 was a conspiracy perpetrated by someone other than Osama Bin Laden from a cave in Afganistan and you come back with calling me a crack pot conspiracy theorist and provide alist of people who all work for the government that say Osama did 911 then I think that proves you to be an arrogant fool.

Furthermore any one of these people on your list would lose their jobs for saying the 911 story is a lie. It has cost many of the people on my list something to have their name listed there (Kevin Ryan for one). They have nothing to gain and have the highest qualifications available.

You should have looked at the list.

[PolyNewbie]

From Scian.com:

"The planes did not bring those towers down; bombs did," says www.abovetopsecret.com. Wrong. In an article in the Journal of the Minerals, Metals, and Materials Society and in subsequent interviews, Thomas Eagar, an engineering professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, explains why: steel loses 50 percent of its strength at 1,200 degrees F; 90,000 liters of jet fuel ignited other combustible materials such as rugs, curtains, furniture and paper, which continued burning after the jet fuel was exhausted, raising temperatures above 1,400 degrees F and spreading the inferno throughout each building."

This has been shown to be incorrect. The steel tested after the fact shows that it was never heated beyond a few hundred degrees in the NIST report. Furthermore FEMA shows direct evidence of explosives in sulfidization of beams tested afterwards. How pools of metal at the tower base, etc show massively high temperatures that cannot be explained by even fires at 1,200 degrees F. Beams were cut as in demolitions.

From Time:

"THE FACTS: The impact of the Boeing 767s damaged support columns and steel floor trusses, causing the inward collapse of perimeter columns, which pulled floors straight down. A misquote of a demolition expert propagated the explosives theory. Seismic spikes, caused by debris hitting the ground, were recorded 10 sec. after each tower started to fall.

"

The first sentence here doesn't even make sense. Multiple demolitions experts have said it was a demolition and that there was absolutely no doubt . Some changed their mind a few days later.

From 911Myths:

"Many of the “facts” we read were distorted, or simply wrong. Quotes were routinely taken out of context. Relevant information was often ignored. And much of this could be discovered with a minimum of online research.

"

Absolutely correct. Many 911 sites are wrong - google has 300,000 hits for this according to other mainstream articles that you quoted. They just pick the worse examples and use them to represent the whole movement. Fact is it is still them that are wrong or using straw men - arguements that we never use and then debunking them.

Thats it. If you want to argue 911 start a new thread. I just can't sit here and watch you post this nonsense.

[Canadian Blue]

Me post nonsense, I think your the only one who comes up with these conspiracy theories on this whole forum. I wouldn't be surprised if you started saying the holocaust was a hoax.

As for your links, it's like trying to back up points for saying the holocaust was a hoax by using info from white supremacist sites.

Lets see, I got my links from Time, The Scientific American, Popular Mechanics, NIST, etc. Well respected organizations, were as you get all of your information from Youtube.

Lets do a quick poll of people on here.

Were do you get your information from the New York Times, or Youtube?

Canadian Blue:

When I can produce a list of that many Brigadier Generals, White House head economists, Senators, Congressman, Heads of CIA, Heads of FBI, & Phd level engineers that think 911 was a conspiracy perpetrated by someone other than Osama Bin Laden from a cave in Afganistan and you come back with calling me a crack pot conspiracy theorist and provide alist of people who all work for the government that say Osama did 911 then I think that proves you to be an arrogant fool.

Furthermore any one of these people on your list would lose their jobs for saying the 911 story is a lie. It has cost many of the people on my list something to have their name listed there (Kevin Ryan for one). They have nothing to gain and have the highest qualifications available.

You should have looked at the list.

Provide the list. Listen those people probably wouldn't lose their jobs. Besides whenever I present evidence contrary to what you say you simply give a BS response like the one stated above.

Can you name the heads of the FBI and CIA who believe 9/11 was a conspiracy and provide the statements they made regarding 9/11.

[PolyNewbie]

Canadian Blue:Provide the list

I provided a link to the list with each person shown and their statements. Do you want a list of 911 Scholars too ?

All you did is give a list consisting of many public relations officers whos job it is to support the government.

Can you name the heads of the FBI and CIA who believe 9/11 was a conspiracy and provide the statements they made regarding 9/11.

I already have provided a link. Here it is again:

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/

You should read their comments wrt the NIST report.

[PolyNewbie]

Canadian Blue:Me post nonsense, I think your the only one who comes up with these conspiracy theories on this whole forum. I wouldn't be surprised if you started saying the holocaust was a hoax.

As for your links, it's like trying to back up points for saying the holocaust was a hoax by using info from white supremacist sites.

Before you were using Elvis now you are using this. Why can't you stick to the topic ? Do you think that people who think 911 was an inside job are waiting for Elvis ?

[Canadian Blue]

Actaully, most conspiracy theorists are probably in the same camp as Elvis, Aliens, Holocaust Denial, The New World Order, the Illuminati, etc.

I've shown you my arguments, and you simply point to the government which is hiding the truth. How can we debate you when you say all facts are due to some government conspiracy.

[PolyNewbie]

Canadian Blue:I've shown you my arguments, and you simply point to the government which is hiding the truth. How can we debate you when you say all facts are due to some government conspiracy.

You can't debate me (and win) and thats the point. There really is some kind of government conspiracy.

[Michael Hardner]

Poly,

911Myths: No name associated with site. Multiple false claims about the 911 truth movement.

That is incorrect.

From the site FAQ:

http://www.911myths.com/html/site_faq.html

Mike Williams is behind the site.

The Popular Mechanics article did an excellent job of refuting a pile of misinformation that was being disseminated at the time the article came out. Unfortunately, the web is faster so that information was replaced by a lot more.

I will say this: Your new page of patriots is impressive, and I imagine it will take awhile before it is debunked.

I can already see that two of the bios seem to be identical there.

[PolyNewbie]

Ok so that is one guy, one opinion.

How about you pick any part of that site and I will do the following

(1)explain how they are twisting facts or misreprenting a statement or idea and what the true areguemnt of 911 truthers is. I can look at any part of that site and show you how they are misleading you.

Popular mechanics did a crappy job of answering the questions of the 911 truth movement and I can show you how they are screwing around with facts and lying too (by omission at least). I can do this with that as well.

This corporate media has an agenda to keep you thinking along certains paths.

[PolyNewbie]

How can something like that list be debunked ?

There is also st911.org which has a pile of scientists and engineers on it.

Why haven't you seen any of this in the newspapers or TV ? Its not up to them to judge - only present you with facts. Why hasn't that patriot list not been on TV ?

[Canadian Blue]

Why haven't you seen any of this in the newspapers or TV ? Its not up to them to judge - only present you with facts. Why hasn't that patriot list not been on TV ?

I blame the CIA and Mossad. It's the only logical explaination!!!

I could probably find a bunch of scientists and engineers who also can prove that the Roswell crash was real.

[Riverwind]

There is also st911.org which has a pile of scientists and engineers on it.

Have you ever seen the movie 'Beautiful Mind'? Even brillant scientists can be completely delusional.

[Charles Anthony]

Have you ever seen the movie 'Beautiful Mind'? Even brillant scientists can be completely delusional.

-- but despite their delusions, they can make contributions that revolutionize the world of social science.

I know, I know, the two are separate issues. I just could not resist. Nash's contributions are simply outstanding.

[PolyNewbie]

So all those people on that list are basically nuts ? Is that what you are all trying to say ?

All those senators, congressmen, generals and White House dept heads are just nuts ?