Who "Outed" Foley?

[betsy]

Gay community analyzes Mark Foley's resignation, says he's 'in the closet'

BY STEVE ROTHAUS

McClatchy Newspapers

"He was a homophobe who needed to be exposed," said journalist Michael Rogers, whose Web site,http://www.blogactive.com/, reported on Florida Rep. Mark Foley for three years.

"I first started to report on Foley in March 2003," said Rogers, who is gay. "The reason why -- he's antigay. He voted for the Defense of Marriage Act and has not renounced that vote. He refused to acknowledge that he supported the repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell.' He would not sign on as a co-sponsor. He should be held accountable for not supporting that or co-sponsoring.

"No community is expected to harbor their own enemies from within. He is an enemy of our community, yet he wants to step into our community and put us at risk. He puts every one of us in a bad light."

In 1996, The Advocate, a gay newsmagazine, outed Foley. During his 2003 run for U.S. Senate, several Florida newspapers reported the old Advocate story. Foley has never publicly said that he is gay.

On May 23, 2003, he called a news conference and said that the innuendo about his life was "revolting and unforgivable" and that he would not discuss his sexual orientation. "Elected officials, even those who run for the United States Senate, must have some level of privacy," Foley said during a half-hour conference call with newspaper reporters from across Florida. "My mother and father raised me and the rest of my family to believe that there are certain things we shouldn't discuss in public. Some of you may believe that it's old-fashioned, but I believe those are good ideals to live by."

Rogers said Foley's problems come from being in the closet.

"I do believe that he had unhealthy sexual advances to these guys because he was living his life as a closeted gay man," Rogers said. "Healthy gay men who are mature and dealing with their sexuality in a mature way don't hit on kids who are 16 years old. What's his signature issue? You don't know whether to laugh or cry."

Finance writer Andrew Tobias of Miami, who is gay and treasurer of the Democratic National Committee said:

"As somebody who has met Mark Foley personally and has mutual friends, I am sad for Mark and I hope he doesn't go to jail. The last time I saw Mark, he was 19 years into a relationship. That was sad that it had to be hidden.

"I hope the Republican Party continues to evolve so it's not so difficult to be an openly gay Republican.

"Will this play into the fears that all gay people are pedophiles? I hope not. There are heterosexual situations as well. Everybody decries this kind of situation. Even Mark Foley did, but he couldn't control it."

Other gay activists were more circumspect.

"It's a tragedy for him and his family. I don't want to get into the pain of the closet. It's irrelevant if he's gay or not," said Matt Foreman, executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

Luis Vizcaino, communications and marketing director for Human Rights Campaign, declined to discuss Foley's resignation. "We're not going to comment on it," he said.

In 2005, HRC gave Foley an 88 out of 100 score on gay issues, making him one of the highest-ranked Republicans in Congress.

http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/n...al/15653544.htm

[sharkman]

Something I've been wondering myself. It seems beyond the attention span of a teenager to save an instant message for several months (does anyone save them that long) and then somhow it gets into ABC's hands? Right when it would do the most in manipulating the election. I don't know about the anti-gay issue, it could be since few are as militant as gays scorned, but at least it smells like an orchestrated plot. Foley is a creep who should have dealt with his problem, but I'm waiting to see what charges are laid since it's been reported the teenager in question was 18, not 16 as previously reported.

[betsy]

Something I've been wondering myself. It seems beyond the attention span of a teenager to save an instant message for several months (does anyone save them that long) and then somhow it gets into ABC's hands? Right when it would do the most in manipulating the election. I don't know about the anti-gay issue, it could be since few are as militant as gays scorned, but at least it smells like an orchestrated plot. Foley is a creep who should have dealt with his problem, but I'm waiting to see what charges are laid since it's been reported the teenager in question was 18, not 16 as previously reported.

Yes, the timing is perfect.

And with this comment: "He voted for the Defense of Marriage Act and has not renounced that vote. "

It seems there's an axe to grind.

[Liam]

Something I've been wondering myself. It seems beyond the attention span of a teenager to save an instant message for several months (does anyone save them that long) and then somhow it gets into ABC's hands? Right when it would do the most in manipulating the election. I don't know about the anti-gay issue, it could be since few are as militant as gays scorned, but at least it smells like an orchestrated plot. Foley is a creep who should have dealt with his problem, but I'm waiting to see what charges are laid since it's been reported the teenager in question was 18, not 16 as previously reported.

Yeah. This is all a Democrat conspiracy. Yeah. Whatever.

For the record, most IM-ing is done through a program called Trillium, which allows IM'ers using different systems (AOL, Yahoo IM, etc.) to speak to one another. Another feature of Trillium is that it automatically archives all IMs. No one has to consciously save them, the service automatically keeps a memory of these messages.

For those of you who think this is all some political dirty trick, if this was a set up, why did Foley jump in and respond to such provocative messages like he did? And if the whole chain of IM's is false, if they were so false why did Foley fold like a house of cards?

Regarding the outing of Foley, gay publications (and even some mainstream newspapers in Florida) have published stories about Foley's being gay. One prominent Republican even said it was the worst kept secret in Washington. joe Scarborough, himself a Republican from Florida who, like Foley first went to Washington after the '94 election, said he knew all along that Foley was gay.

[M.Dancer]

I heard on CNN that the pages called him FFF

Florida Fag Foley.....

it's one thing to be gay and quite another to be chasing adolescent boys....unless you're 16 yourself that is.....

[sharkman]

Yeah. This is all a Democrat conspiracy. Yeah. Whatever.

For the record, most IM-ing is done through a program called Trillium, which allows IM'ers using different systems (AOL, Yahoo IM, etc.) to speak to one another. Another feature of Trillium is that it automatically archives all IMs. No one has to consciously save them, the service automatically keeps a memory of these messages.

For those of you who think this is all some political dirty trick, if this was a set up, why did Foley jump in and respond to such provocative messages like he did? And if the whole chain of IM's is false, if they were so false why did Foley fold like a house of cards?

Regarding the outing of Foley, gay publications (and even some mainstream newspapers in Florida) have published stories about Foley's being gay. One prominent Republican even said it was the worst kept secret in Washington. joe Scarborough, himself a Republican from Florida who, like Foley first went to Washington after the '94 election, said he knew all along that Foley was gay.

Uh, Foley responded like he did because he wrote the IMs. I thought that was obvious. No one is saying the IMs are false. I for one am asking the question who benefits? Who released them? How did this blogger get ahold of them?

I don't know why in the world Foley wasn't disciplined and put on probation of some sort a long time ago, but it's quite obvious his enemies held onto this evidence until it could do the most damage.

Foley did the right thing at the end, if even for the wrong reasons. On another thread I outlined a few Dems who have been caught in sexual scandals before, and the Dems have always responded to such situations with denial, defense and lying. Foley has regigned, quit his career and is under investigation by the FBI. To see the Dems going after more and more Republicans and trying to take down as many as they can is hypocritical to say the least.

[Liam]

Which Dems are going after him? They're all sitting on their hands over this. It's the GOP that is fighting and screaming out loud about this. And the scandal isn't just about Foley, but also about how the GOP leadership tried to hush it up or did nothing to investigate if the guy was a danger to the kids who work on the Hill. Dem involvement or not, the GOP is 100% at fault here and trying to claim that this is some political play by Foley's enemies doesn't exhonorate the willful negligence of the GOP leadership in this case.

[jdobbin]

I guess the investigation will reveal some of what happened.

The latest Ipsos poll on the scandal.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15142076/

Most of the shouting and screaming seems to be between Republicans.

[Rue]

Let us get the term straight if you excuse the pun, he is a pedophile with repressed homo-sexual feelings.

If he was a healthy homo-sexual he would not be harassing 16 year old boys nor would he be engaging in homophobic diatribes to try compensate for his conflicting feelings.

I do not blame gay people or confuse his problems with their lifestyle.

[betsy]

If he was a healthy homo-sexual he would not be harassing 16 year old boys nor would he be engaging in homophobic diatribes to try compensate for his conflicting feelings.

If I follow your statement above, you'd actually be supporting my allegations in a very old topic, that EGALE is secretly pushing the agenda for the pedophile group (NAMBLA) that used to be associated with the gay-movement-formerly-known-as-ILGA.

It raises a question when trying to get in the pants of a 16 year old (which is the age of consent in Washington) is being insisted upon that it is a pedophile offense....even though the legal terms used for his alleged offense is "criminal activity with a minor"......and yet EGALE is trying to lower the age of consent to 14!

So if we think that he is a pedophile for lusting after a 16 year old.....of course, EGALE is then a supporter and advocate of pedophiles!

He identified himself as a gay. The Gay community outed him as a gay! He is therefore a gay...and now, according to you, a pedophile as well.

[M.Dancer]

If I follow your statement above, you'd actually be supporting my allegations in a very old topic, that EGALE is secretly pushing the agenda for the pedophile group (NAMBLA) that used to be associated with the gay-movement-formerly-known-as-ILGA.

If they are doing it secretly...how do you know about it?

[betsy]

If I follow your statement above, you'd actually be supporting my allegations in a very old topic, that EGALE is secretly pushing the agenda for the pedophile group (NAMBLA) that used to be associated with the gay-movement-formerly-known-as-ILGA.

If they are doing it secretly...how do you know about it?

The introductory line of EGALE somehow echoes the policies of the ILGA and NAMBLA. The words had been re-hashed...the agenda seems to have been "re-packaged".

I have read EGALE’s submission on Age of Consent to the Department of Justice Canada dated

March 30, 2000. However, just reading its introductions, I came across some statements that were rather unsettling.

"While EGALE supports the goal of protecting vulnerable persons from sexual abuse, we are concerned about the efficacy of raising the age of consent. In addition, EGALE has serious concerns about adverse impacts, including the impact on the goals of fostering autonomy, empowering youth and providing them with the tools to make informed decisions.

The setting of an absolute age of consent is an inevitably imperfect line drawing exercise. No matter where the line is drawn, some otherwise healthy sexual activity will be criminalized and some harmful activity will be permitted. Both effects are of concern, and both should be considered."

http://www.egale.ca/index.asp?lang=E&m...37&item=348

"The setting of an absolute age of consent is an inevitably imperfect line drawing exercise. No matter where the line is drawn, some otherwise healthy sexual activity will be criminalized and some harmful activity will be permitted. Both effects are of concern, and both should be considered."

Does this paragraph suggests that there should be no absolute age of consent? That this is a subtle way of saying let's abolish the age of consent law?

Does "autonomy" means sexual and social self-determination?

ILGA's current positions on man/boy love and pedophilia are

explicit:

-- In 1985, ILGA adopted a position on "Age of Consent/Paedophilia/

Children's Rights" that urged member organizations to "lobby their

governments to abolish the age of consent law" so long as there is

"adequate protection for youth from being sexually abused without

the age of consent law."

-- In 1986, ILGA adopted a position that says the group "supports

the right of young people to sexual and social self-determination."

-- In 1988, ILGA declared "this conference recognizes that existing

same-sex age-of-consent laws often operate to oppress and not to

protect; that in many countries, existing laws on sexual coercion

and rules of evidence also often operate to oppress and not to

protect; that therefore member organizations are urged to consider

how best children, adolescents, and people of all ages can be

empowered and supported against both sexual coercion and sexual

oppression and to work towards that end."

-- In 1990, ILGA "calls on all members to treat all sexual

minorities with respect and to engage in constructive dialogue

with them. In another position adopted that year, ILGA declared

that it "supports the right of every individual, regardless of

age, to explore and develop her or his sexuality."

ILGA has also taken strong stands against sexual coercion. NAMBLA

helped write these positions, and our delegates supported them in the General

-----------------------

Pederasty and Homosexuality

by David Thorstad

Speech to the Semana Cultural Lesbica-Gay, Mexico City, June 26, 1998. More than 600 people showed up for the talk: standing room only, and many had to be turned away. [This is an English translation of the speech, which was given in Spanish]

"Our movement today stresses the liberation and empowerment of young people. Instead of pedagogy, democracy. Rather than a Greek love mentor-relationship, the companionship of independent and autonomous individuals. In place of male supremacy, a vision of sexual, economic, and political liberation for all. Freedom is indivisible. The liberation of children, women, boy-lovers, and homosexuals in general, can occur only as complementary facets of the same dream."

http://www.attrition.org/mirror/attrition/...1/pederasty.htm

[geoffrey]

For the record, most IM-ing is done through a program called Trillium, which allows IM'ers using different systems (AOL, Yahoo IM, etc.) to speak to one another. Another feature of Trillium is that it automatically archives all IMs. No one has to consciously save them, the service automatically keeps a memory of these messages.

What the hell is Trillium? Do you have stats that most-IM-ing is done through it?

I highly doubt it, as a technology savy university student, you'd of thought I would have heard of such thing at least, or maybe saw it used at least once ever.

It doesn't seem practical to me that it would have been saved. That being said, it's apparent that it was saved. I don't think Foley would have made a statement saying he's gay and what not through his attorney if it wasn't a founded acusation.

[BubberMiley]

What the hell is Trillium? Do you have stats that most-IM-ing is done through it?

Actually it's called Trillian.

http://www.download.com/Trillian/3000-2150-10047473.html

[kimmy]

It doesn't seem practical to me that it would have been saved. That being said, it's apparent that it was saved. I don't think Foley would have made a statement saying he's gay and what not through his attorney if it wasn't a founded acusation.

I've used a number of different chat programs, and most of them provided some sort of option for archiving messages. It can be done if one wishes to.

If a message was kept for this long, it's likely because the kid chose to keep it for some reason. If the messages were released at this time, there's a reason for that too. What reason would the kid have for keeping instant messages? Perhaps a blackmail or revenge scheme.

But... does it matter? Foley wouldn't have been outed as a scumbag if he hadn't acted like a scumbag. If you're doing something that would be devastating to your reputation if it became known... there's a good chance you shouldn't be doing it anyway.

-k

[Great Pharoah]

I can't believe this whole Foley thing. The plain simple truth. The man is a pedophile. Why is it a political issue, he should be tried in court, and the American should focus on politics as seperate. The fact that Foley is a pervert doesn't mean the entire Republican party is a perverted party, so why do people seem to equate the two things together. If Stephen Harper likes Ice Cream, it doesn't mean the entire conservative party is pro ice cream. Give me a break.

[kimmy]

It's a political issue because there is contention that people in the Republican party have known about his behavior for a long time and have tried to cover it up rather than taking action against him sooner.

If that is the case, it makes the "values" talk seem like a lot of hot air.

-k

[Liam]

What the hell is Trillium? Do you have stats that most-IM-ing is done through it?

Actually it's called Trillian.

http://www.download.com/Trillian/3000-2150-10047473.html

Bubber -- a typo on my part, thanks for correcting!