This is an Insult and an OUTRAGE!

[M.Dancer]

Adding insult to injury? Wounded soldiers have pay cut

GLORIA GALLOWAY

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

OTTAWA — The government must stop docking danger pay from soldiers who are injured while fighting for Canada in places like Afghanistan, a Liberal MP said yesterday.

Wounded members of the Canadian Forces "are no longer given the benefit of the danger pay nor the tax-exempt status, which I think is extraordinarily harsh and shows a broken faith with our troops," said Dan McTeague, an MP from Scarborough.

"I think every Canadian who finds out . . . that our wounded soldiers are being cut off, are being docked that kind of pay, will be outraged."

Canadian Forces personnel serving overseas are given extra pay, on top of their normal salaries, to account for the hardship and risk. Those who are currently serving their second tour of duty in Kandahar, for instance, receive $2,111 a month, tax-free, above their regular pay. In addition, those on high-risk missions are given an income-tax exemption of up to $6,647 a month.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

Yeah so there's absolutely no danger from dying from infection....no danger from psychological trauma.....no danger in enduring the pain........

I think for a second, and I am amazed and appalled.....amazed that everyone is a volunteer....and appalled that they are asked to risk so much for so many abd for so god-damned little.

[watching&waiting]

The idea of danger pay is from the idea that you are facing death every day in a much greater fashin then most people. The injured are still getting their danger pay while in the hospitals ect. but when they are recouperating at home or out od the threater of the action they are no longer in danger and so yes the pay is cut. If and when they return to the threater of war they are again piad this benefit. I just do not see the need for outrage in this. But I can probably see the Liberals maybe having problems, as we all know they are big on "we are entitled to our entitlements", but they will not see the true sense of what this extra pay was for.

We must remember that there are many different levels of payment that the forces get. Death benefits, for the family and their children, disability for those wounded and can not recover fully, and many others. As things change so will the benefits to more directly address the cause. It is not a hard thing to under stand.

[M.Dancer]

The idea of danger pay is from the idea that you are facing death every day in a much greater fashin then most people. The injured are still getting their danger pay while in the hospitals ect. but when they are recouperating at home or out od the threater of the action they are no longer in danger and so yes the pay is cut. If and when they return to the threater of war they are again piad this benefit. I just do not see the need for outrage in this. But I can probably see the Liberals maybe having problems, as we all know they are big on "we are entitled to our entitlements", but they will not see the true sense of what this extra pay was for.

We must remember that there are many different levels of payment that the forces get. Death benefits, for the family and their children, disability for those wounded and can not recover fully, and many others. As things change so will the benefits to more directly address the cause. It is not a hard thing to under stand.

How i forget....that fucking over soldiers is a protected Candian Cultural institutiuon.....they did it in WW1, WWII and Korea....they do it peace time too......

[Shakeyhands]

You'll recall that the Bush administration did exactly the same thing a couple years ago. Gotta save money somewhere guys and gals.... come on.

[uOttawaMan]

Adding insult to injury? Wounded soldiers have pay cut

GLORIA GALLOWAY

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

OTTAWA — The government must stop docking danger pay from soldiers who are injured while fighting for Canada in places like Afghanistan, a Liberal MP said yesterday.

Wounded members of the Canadian Forces "are no longer given the benefit of the danger pay nor the tax-exempt status, which I think is extraordinarily harsh and shows a broken faith with our troops," said Dan McTeague, an MP from Scarborough.

"I think every Canadian who finds out . . . that our wounded soldiers are being cut off, are being docked that kind of pay, will be outraged."

Canadian Forces personnel serving overseas are given extra pay, on top of their normal salaries, to account for the hardship and risk. Those who are currently serving their second tour of duty in Kandahar, for instance, receive $2,111 a month, tax-free, above their regular pay. In addition, those on high-risk missions are given an income-tax exemption of up to $6,647 a month.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

Yeah so there's absolutely no danger from dying from infection....no danger from psychological trauma.....no danger in enduring the pain........

I think for a second, and I am amazed and appalled.....amazed that everyone is a volunteer....and appalled that they are asked to risk so much for so many abd for so god-damned little.

But then again, if these benefits resulted in tax increases, there would be more shock and outrage by far then anything that has transpired so far.

Everyone is willing to do the right thing, until it affects them personally in a negative way.

[Wilber]

How i forget....that fucking over soldiers is a protected Candian Cultural institutiuon.....they did it in WW1, WWII and Korea....they do it peace time too......

My dad is a WWII vet. There are a lot of benefits and expenses covered by DVA. More than I ever would have thought. A lot of them he never even asked for but got anyway. I would be more interested in what these people are receiving now and will in the future, not what they may have lost in the short term. What will be their position six years from now, not the next six months. There was no mention of that.

I do think that by volunteering to go they have made a contract with us. If they are unable to complete that contract through no fault of their own, we should still keep our end. The benefits should be honoured whether they have four months or four days remaining in their tour.

[M.Dancer]

How i forget....that fucking over soldiers is a protected Candian Cultural institutiuon.....they did it in WW1, WWII and Korea....they do it peace time too......

My dad is a WWII vet. There are a lot of benefits and expenses covered by DVA. More than I ever would have thought. A lot of them he never even asked for but got anyway. I would be more interested in what these people are receiving now and will in the future, not what they may have lost in the short term. What will be their position six years from now, not the next six months. There was no mention of that.

I do think that by volunteering to go they have made a contract with us. If they are unable to complete that contract through no fault of their own, we should still keep our end. The benefits should be honoured whether they have four months or four days remaining in their tour.

My father too. I remember him saying that when they were de mobbed they got a pamphlet that had their benefits and he wanted an education. Being a depression era boy, he was pulled out of school in grade 7 to work and help support the family. He wanted to be a commerical artist but every programme he applied for he was told the the quota was filled fisrt by officers. It was around 1948 before he was accepted in a machinists programme.......

[killjoy]

The most important quote in the entire article:

When our soldiers return to Canada, they are no longer eligible for this type of operational allowance. We don't have any plans to change the current policy which has been in place since 1995." -- Gloria Galloway

11 years this has been the policy. Why then does the 'Honorable' Dan McTeague and the Globe and Mail say this:

Wounded members of the Canadian Forces "are no longer given the benefit of the danger pay nor the tax-exempt status, which I think is extraordinarily harsh and shows a broken faith with our troops," said Dan McTeague, an MP from Scarborough.

Why does he use the phrase "will no longer"? Who is he trying to BS? Well all of us of course. Now THIS is LEAVERAGING POLITICAL SUPPORT by USING the TROOPS.

And the Headline says this:

"Adding insult to injury? Wounded soldiers have pay cut"

Again with the media BS! There has been no change. This has always been the policy. When it was formed in 1995, who made the policy? Liberals. Now who's whining and L Y I N G about this policy, by trying to make it sound like it's a new policy by this new government and is representing a cut in pay, which it isn't since we're talking about a BONUS in pay to begin with?

There is no story here. No change. No unfairness to the wounded. No pay "cut" at all. This is 100% fabrication and slight of hand. More typical Liberal mealy-mouthed whining and BS. Smoke and mirrors and the Globe is all too willing to go along with it.

For the record I know the G&M have a fancy look and a neat-o name, but they are the worst rag in the country, even more than the National Post. They might as well be the Sun. Anyone buying this story has only themselves to blame.

All ya gotta do is read to see through the BS here.

.

[M.Dancer]

The most important quote in the entire article:

When our soldiers return to Canada, they are no longer eligible for this type of operational allowance. We don't have any plans to change the current policy which has been in place since 1995." -- Gloria Galloway

11 years this has been the policy. Why then does the 'Honorable' Dan McTeague and the Globe and Mail say this:

Wounded members of the Canadian Forces "are no longer given the benefit of the danger pay nor the tax-exempt status, which I think is extraordinarily harsh and shows a broken faith with our troops," said Dan McTeague, an MP from Scarborough.

Why does he use the phrase "will no longer"? Who is he trying to BS? Well all of us of course. Now THIS is LEAVERAGING POLITICAL SUPPORT by USING the TROOPS.

And the Headline says this:

"Adding insult to injury? Wounded soldiers have pay cut"

Again with the media BS! There has been no change. This has always been the policy. When it was formed in 1995, who made the policy? Liberals. Now who's whining and L Y I N G about this policy, by trying to make it sound like it's a new policy by this new government and is representing a cut in pay, which it isn't since we're talking about a BONUS in pay to begin with?

There is no story here. No change. No unfairness to the wounded. No pay "cut" at all. This is 100% fabrication and slight of hand. More typical Liberal mealy-mouthed whining and BS. Smoke and mirrors and the Globe is all too willing to go along with it.

For the record I know the G&M have a fancy look and a neat-o name, but they are the worst rag in the country, even more than the National Post. They might as well be the Sun. Anyone buying this story has only themselves to blame.

All ya gotta do is read to see through the BS here.

.

I agree with you 100%

I would be outraged no nmatter which politcal asshole was in charge.....But I wil say, for a policy that has been in effect for 10 years, this is the first I've heard of it and I would hope that the consrvatives who have cometo Ottawa with a mind to change will change this misguided legacy of the liberals.

[killjoy]

Fair enough. You have no idea how good it makes me feel to hear you say that. You've restored my one thread of faith. Thank you. I was like, "Is it crazy in here or is it just me?"

My handle shouldn't be killjoy. It should be Howard Beale. I hate the media. I hate 'em. I hate 'em. i hate 'em.

Not for nothin' but it should be noted that if you are wounded there are all kinds of benefits and bonuses that kick in depending on your need. The needs of the CF are fairly small. It's really not that hard to spend lots of money to those who are wounded. It's not like we have 50000 of them or something like the US. They are not simply 'forgotten' by a long shot.

.

[Borg]

If you think that is bad, you should see what happens to them when they are deemed no longer fit for duty due to injuries that happen while serving.

Reservists have it even worse.

Thanks for the service - here is your reduced pension - now get on with you.

Borg

[Wilber]

My father too. I remember him saying that when they were de mobbed they got a pamphlet that had their benefits and he wanted an education. Being a depression era boy, he was pulled out of school in grade 7 to work and help support the family. He wanted to be a commerical artist but every programme he applied for he was told the the quota was filled fisrt by officers. It was around 1948 before he was accepted in a machinists programme.......

My dad wasn't an officer but he did get a degree at UBC after the war paid for by the government. A lot of vets took land. What is now some of the most expensive real estate in the northern Okanagan was called the VLA area of Westbank because of it. I can only think that your dads lack of a formal education worked against him. Too bad and unfair.

[Wilber]

If you think that is bad, you should see what happens to them when they are deemed no longer fit for duty due to injuries that happen while serving.

What does happen to them?

[M.Dancer]

If you think that is bad, you should see what happens to them when they are deemed no longer fit for duty due to injuries that happen while serving.

What does happen to them?

Give you an idea.....back in 1967 my cousin was driving a petrol truck to CFB Bordon when he swerved to avoid a head on collision. He ended up in hospital with 3rd degree burns over 75% of his body. Two or three month into his hospital stay he was told he was being discharged from the hospital because he was being discharged from the army. My uncle, his dad was a warrent officer at the time...he hit the roof and raised serious shit.....but to no end.

He was released, he collected a bugger all disability pension and underwent another few years of hospital care. His life was hell.

[Argus]

I agree with you 100%

I would be outraged no nmatter which politcal asshole was in charge.....But I wil say, for a policy that has been in effect for 10 years, this is the first I've heard of it and I would hope that the consrvatives who have cometo Ottawa with a mind to change will change this misguided legacy of the liberals.

Now I've always been a big supporter of the military, but I just don't get what you're complaining about. You get danger pay when you're in a combat zone. When you're no longer in that zone you no longer get danger pay. What is the problem here? Do you think they should continue to get danger pay for years? Forever? These guys are VERY well paid without getting danger pay. They don't need to have money thrown at them out of charity.

[Topaz]

I wonder if they have to pay for their own armour like they had to, at one time, in the US for the troops in Iraq? One item I did see on TV today was that if a military person marries after the age of 60, including remarriages, their spouse can't collect their military pensions after they die! It called the "golddigger" law. The retired General said the military didn't mention this to him before he retired and married for the second time after the age of 60!

[Wilber]

If you think that is bad, you should see what happens to them when they are deemed no longer fit for duty due to injuries that happen while serving.

What does happen to them?

Give you an idea.....back in 1967 my cousin was driving a petrol truck to CFB Bordon when he swerved to avoid a head on collision. He ended up in hospital with 3rd degree burns over 75% of his body. Two or three month into his hospital stay he was told he was being discharged from the hospital because he was being discharged from the army. My uncle, his dad was a warrent officer at the time...he hit the roof and raised serious shit.....but to no end.

He was released, he collected a bugger all disability pension and underwent another few years of hospital care. His life was hell.

Sounds rough but it was almost 40 years ago.

[M.Dancer]

These guys are VERY well paid without getting danger pay. They don't need to have money thrown at them out of charity.

If you think $2421. a month before taxes is well paid........

[watching&waiting]

You quoted tyhe absolute lowest paid level there is and very few people ever stay at that level. I come from a very big military back ground family. We have had veternerns from all the wars and believe me it is not evn close to what you described. Even the disabled in our family were well taken care of, but the one thing that our miltary could not do was force many of those who needed psycoanalysis, to take this and be better off for it. There are so many things that are available to our veterns that many do nto know about. My aunt found out in her 70's that she qualifies for death benitits pension from her late husband from 25 years back. She was then paid all retroactive to the date of death and it was a very tidy some. She has since died but all the educational benefits were also given out to their kids etc.

There may be many hard feeling that some have when it comes to Military pensions, but from the point of view from what our family has seen, there is nothing to complain about.

[Army Guy]

I think Killjoy hit the nail on the head, This has been policy for years regardless if you are wounded or killed while on deployment. And it needs to be made clear that this is not a "new conservative policy."

In order to collect all the extra benifits you must remain in threater (in the area that is considered a combat zone) i should comment that bennifits are cut regardless if you are out of threater for more than 25 days. no exceptions..And most soldiers have no problem with this..

Those wounded or disabled in threater do or will recieve a different package of benifits, perhaps not as much as benifits they recieve in threater but they are for a longer period of time and are tax free.

Whatchould be addressed is the new policy of cash pay outs for disabled personal, Up to 250,000 Vice the old policy which gave a soldier a small medical pension for life and was adjusted for inflation, plus other little benifits that ensured long term care was given to our vets,. Now 250,000 sounds like alot, but some of these guys will not be able to find employment again. and like most people 250,000 won't go very far unless you invest it. once that is gone that is it...your on your own...

So yes those benifits could be looked at, and perhaps changed. that would ensure long term benifits.

I aslo want to mention, what Argus has already pionted out, we are well payed when compared to other militaries thru out the world, but were they lack in pay they make up for in other benifits that Canadian soldiers do not haveor we have lost due to cuts.. not many soldiers complain about the amount we are paid, don't get me wrong we like raises like everyone else. But the pay is good.

It's our equipment we love to bitch about.

[Wilber]

Now 250,000 sounds like alot, but some of these guys will not be able to find employment again. and like most people 250,000 won't go very far unless you invest it. once that is gone that is it...your on your own...

So yes those benifits could be looked at, and perhaps changed. that would ensure long term benifits.

For people disabled on active service, I don't think a 250K cap is acceptable.

[Figleaf]

[i made an interesting point here, but I've removed it now because this forum has an admin who treats people very disrespectfully.]

Edited July 22, 2007 by Figleaf

[Wilber]

On the morning news Hillier was quoted as saying this situation will be addressed immediately. Stay tuned

[M.Dancer]

I don't understand this policy. You sign up for a mission -- its dangerous so you'll be paid an ekstra amount ... but only right up until you actually suffer the danger[/quote ]?!?

It should be that danger pay is credited for the whole mission.

I would have thought being brave and getting wounded and living would have been treated like winning the Lotto.....bare minimum the buggers should never ever have to buy the first beer for the ret of thier lives...fucking tattooo it on their arms.....I Fought For Freedom and Canada....give the Trooper a pint of Keith's on me and the next on the fellow beside me.....

[Wilber]

On the morning news Hillier was quoted as saying this situation will be addressed immediately. Stay tuned

O'Connor as well.