Europe paralized with fear

[betsy]

Well, you're right. I can't prove that Muslims will change the same as every other race that comes here.

I don't think Muslims will stop practicing their religion altogether, but that they will become Canadianized as every other religion has.

But - you're right - I guess I can't prove it any more than you can prove that they won't in twenty years or so.

I just don't see why one group of people will act any differently. Nothing posted here is convincing to me.

And you can add this to my list of proofs:

Muslim cabbies refuse to carry booze

Geoff Elliott, Washington correspondent

October 02, 2006

MUSLIM taxi drivers in Minnesota have declared jihad on duty-free, refusing to carry passengers who are carrying alcohol.

The ban has created chaos at Minneapolis-St Paul international airport, where about three-quarters of the 900 taxi drivers are Somali and mostly Muslim.

Airport officials have begun working with taxi drivers to install colour-coded lights on taxi roofs to indicate which are alcohol friendly and which are not.

The lights are expected to be introduced by the end of the year.

Ali Culed, a Somali Muslim who's been driving an airport cab for eight years, said the ban was "a religious issue".

"I cannot force anybody to change their belief, but not in my cab," he said. "I don't want the guilt. I just want to be an innocent person." Eva Buzek, a flight attendant who grew up in Poland, said that when she asked a driver to be careful with her suitcase because it had wine in it, he dumped her bags and told other drivers not to carry her either. Four more refused her service.

She said the ban went against American values.

"I don't want to impose my beliefs on anyone else," she told the Minneapolis Star Tribune. "That's why I'm in this country, because of the freedom.

The Koran strictly forbids buying, selling, drinking or carrying alcohol.

http://www.theaustralian.news.

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Here's a question for you:

How do you think the 2nd and 3rd generations will lose their faith and assimilate.......if the first generation keep carrying out aggressive enforcements of their religious belief?

[betsy]

Actually Michael, if you do not or you cannot offer any proof that supports your "counter assertion"...you'd be the best proof I have...on which I base ALL my apprehensions.

I'd be the best proof ? How do you mean ?

You cannot prove your own arguments. They had been riddled with holes and proven wrong! You practically admitted to grabbing your opinion from thin air. And bluntly speaking, that amounts to resorting to lies.

And yet you had no reservations at all in casually dismissing our assertions as "fallacies!"

At least I understand the extremists for doing what they do. They are driven by a religious faith. And they come from another culture.

But I do not understand you ....what you hope to gain by practically lying...twisting words just to ensure that our concerns are not taken seriously....nothing more than "fallacies"...

...and that makes you really someone to be apprehensive about.

[Michael Hardner]

Lying ?

Betsy, you're overreaching there.

I still think I'm right, but that it's impossible to "prove" what's in the human heart as if it's a mathematical theorem. I'm trying to be honest here, but when you come back and accuse me of lying it's pretty tough not to walk away from this discussion.

And again - individual anecdotes prove nothing at all. The term 'anecdotal evidence' is used to describe cases where people try to prove universal truths based on what happened to them. "I can prove Parisians are rude because it happened to me..." says nothing about Parisians in general, just your experience with them.

My experience with Muslims convinces me that they're the same as other peoples. I can't say that that is a "proof" either.

If you want to step back with me an approach this again, let's talk about what we're trying to prove...

That Muslims are "different" ? ( They obviously are of a different religion, so the question is moot.)

That Muslims who come here will assimilate significantly less, to the point where they harm our nation more than they help it ? ( That would be a tough one to prove. )

What is the question ?

[Leafless]

It looks like radical Muslims have achieved for moderate Muslims what moderate Muslims would never be able to achieve by themselves.

And that is a FORCED RESPECT for THEIR religion utilizing terror tactics.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenew...TS-RELIGION.xml

We're dhimmis in our own home.

Not only that Muslims are anti-nationalistic, along with Quebec who only believes in Quebec nationalism.

The problems this country faces with Canadian nationalism and patriotism makes Canada a non-unifying force directly caused by weak, poor leadership. This is the cause of havoc in the way in the way of cultural concerns and in turn affects and splits the country on important issues.

http://www.zawaj.com/editorials/nationalism_ahmed.html

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Hundreds of years of discrimination by both of the official founding language speakers gave us the results we have today. Why do people think we embraced multiculturalism in the first place if it wasn't to appease the minority French speaking portion of our citizenry?

The latest craze of disriminatory actions are against the Muslims, prior to the second world war it was against Jews. Before that it was the natives, we have a long track record of disrimination in this country. I might add that we rarely get it right in our choice of slutions to this ever present problem. The majority dominates the minority, always. This is not unique to Canada you understand but is equally applied everywhere in the world. The present system of Human Rights laws in Canada go a long ways to prevent a lot of garbage but still can't actually deal with the problems of human nature. What ever it is that is different between a minority and a majority create problems for a society. Legislation will not stop discrimination, it is a mere means of punishing it.

Innocent until proven guilty is the only name of the game. It is folly to believe otherwise. It is not groups that are guilty but the individuals within those groups that are responsible. We need to rethink the basis of society in order to defeat this problem. There are painful but plausable solutions that can be drafted for legislation, it is only our imaginations that prevent the solution from coming to light. Once again this is another subject that requires out of the box type of thinking.

[Argus]

The latest craze of disriminatory actions are against the Muslims, prior to the second world war it was against Jews.

I must have missed this wave. Could you give me a rundown on all the terrible discriminatory actions against Muslims which have occured recently?