The NDP and Hezbollah

[M.Dancer]

The first criticized Israel's response to Hezbollah during this summer's conflict as "drastically disproportionate." It said "Hezbollah is a recognized political party with democratically elected members in Lebanon's cabinet and Parliament," and that the NDP should advocate a comprehensive peace process "bringing all state and non-state parties to the table."

The second resolution called for a two-state solution for Israel and Palestine and contained a list of criticisms of Israel.

Ms. Wasylycia-Leis said she had "a deep concern with the tone" of the first resolution.

"Is it not important to recognize that Hezbollah is also a terrorist organization?" she asked, which generated boos from delegates.

Vancouver MP Libby Davies called it "a very fine resolution" and said, "I think it sends a very strong message from this convention."

Mr. Layton defended the Middle East votes, telling reporters that "it's a position we've taken for months."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto....NDP11/TPStory/

And there you go....Hezbollah is a Political Party! and like the NAZI party, have an armed element which conducts terrorist activities inside and outside the country......And like true chamberlian like fashion.....they decline to call Hezbollah what it is.....

[na85]

Rick Mercer wrote an interesting blog article about similar NDP-proposed peace talks with the Taliban in Afghanistan.

I laughed out loud when I read his hypothetical itinerary, and I imagine that talks with "The Hezbollah Party" would go in a similar manner.

http://rickmercer.blogspot.com/2006/09/far...-to-summer.html

[M.Dancer]

Rick Mercer wrote an interesting blog article about similar NDP-proposed peace talks with the Taliban in Afghanistan.

I laughed out loud when I read his hypothetical itinerary, and I imagine that talks with "The Hezbollah Party" would go in a similar manner.

http://rickmercer.blogspot.com/2006/09/far...-to-summer.html

He is truly Brilliant....

[Born Free]

Jack Layton is an excellent opposition leader. Lets hope he remains one as long as he's in Ottawa.

[geoffrey]

Jack Layton is an excellent opposition leader. Lets hope he remains one as long as he's in Ottawa.

I wouldn't worry too much. The NDP scares away any intelligent voters left everytime they release a 'statement' (ie terrorist sympathizing statement) these days.

[Black Dog]

geoffery: are you not on record here saying Israel's response was "disproportionate"?

Also: what's wrong with advocating a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestine issue, given that is also the solution supported by majorities in both Israel and the Palestinian territories?

[geoffrey]

geoffery: are you not on record here saying Israel's response was "disproportionate"?

Yes, it was disproportionate. I don't see how that changes my view that Hezbollah is not a political party, and needs to be completely destroyed. My opposition isn't out of the destruction of Hezbollah, my opposition lies with the fact that Israel failed to accomplish anything but killing multitudes of civilians and increasing Hezbollah support with the poor strategic choices they made.

I'd love to see Israel wipe Hezbollah out of existance. I just don't think that's possible.

Also: what's wrong with advocating a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestine issue, given that is also the solution supported by majorities in both Israel and the Palestinian territories?

If Hamas wasn't in power, it would be completely favourable to advocate a two-state solution. But the Palestinian people chose a known terrorist party over peace. I don't know if Israel or anyone can counter that decision by giving Palestinians more freedom and sovereignty.

[Higgly]

Well how quickly we forget that the state of Israel was founded by terrorists - Irgun, the Stern Gang, etc... There was a famous and rather hilarious moment at the Madrid Peace Conference when the Syrian Minister of Defense held up a wanted poster the British had once put out with Itzhak Shamir's sour puss on it. Just so much is the pot calling the kettle black. Yawn.

[scribblet]

Taliban Jack wants us out of Afghanistan, but its okay for the troops to die in Lebanon - he's a hypocite of alarming proportions. Hopefully this and the radical proposals coming out of their convention will open people's eyes.

[Ricki Bobbi]

He is truly Brilliant....

Mercer has his moments and that was definitely one of htem.

[M.Dancer]

Well how quickly we forget that the state of Israel was founded by terrorists - Irgun, the Stern Gang, etc... There was a famous and rather hilarious moment at the Madrid Peace Conference when the Syrian Minister of Defense held up a wanted poster the British had once put out with Itzhak Shamir's sour puss on it. Just so much is the pot calling the kettle black. Yawn.

It is not a question of forgetting, it is a question of putting aside what is irrelevant. Like the US, founded by treasonous revolutionaries and criminals.......water under the bridge I say.

Why on earth would we want to be handcuffed by history? But if you say Hezbollah is fighting to establish an independant state, and thats why they travelled to south america to murder south ameican jews......

[Higgly]

It is not a question of forgetting, it is a question of putting aside what is irrelevant. Like the US, founded by treasonous revolutionaries and criminals.......water under the bridge I say.

The convenient memory lapse. How useful that can be. I trifle self-serving dontcha think?

[M.Dancer]

Absolutely self serving. Especialy if the self is serving to keep your nation alive.

As I said, no one should stand by and allow your actions to be handcuffed by histroy. There is more than enough history to go around and it isn't just Israel with a black past.

Israel has a duty to her citizens to fight her enemies. Her past should not stand in the way of her future.

[lost&outofcontrol]

Absolutely self serving. Especialy if the self is serving to keep your nation alive.

Kinda like how Hezbollah has been defending Lebanon from Israeli invasion for the past 25 years?

[M.Dancer]

Absolutely self serving. Especialy if the self is serving to keep your nation alive.

Kinda like how Hezbollah has been defending Lebanon from Israeli invasion for the past 25 years?

You mean the invasion that ended 6 years ago? The one where the respected gov'ts signed agreements that bound them to honour? The agreement that called for the disarmements of the private armies....the private army that caused the destruction of Lebanon?

Yeah Hezbollah did a great job defending Lebanon...with defense like that, who needs demolition companies?

So in short, yes the memory lapse of israel is exactly like hezbollah....except hezbollah haven't forgotten how to be terrorists.

[Higgly]

I love the thinking here. A handful of soldiers get kidnapped and shot and an entire country is pulverized to smithereens and thousands die. Sort of like the 1982 invasion where Israel slaughtered 17,000 civilians in Lebanon because 105 Israelis had been killed by PLO terrorists between 1973 and 1978.

[M.Dancer]

I love the thinking here. A handful of soldiers get kidnapped and shot and an entire country is pulverized to smithereens and thousands die. Sort of like the 1982 invasion where Israel slaughtered 17,000 civilians in Lebanon because 105 Israelis had been killed by PLO terrorists between 1973 and 1978.

I'm glad you like it. I notice you omitted the random missile attacks, but never mind.

So do you think Hezbollah and her bosses will have learned anything by this? ie. don't f*ck with Israel again?

I hope so, I truly do

[Higgly]

I'm glad you like it. I notice you omitted the random missile attacks, but never mind.

Well OK, if you insist. The missile attacks didn't start until after Israel started bombing Lebanon. Sort of like Ahmadinejad didn't start his anti-Israeli rhetoric until Israel announced it was thinking of bombing the Iranian nuclear installations like it had done with Iraq. Then we have the Holocaust cartoon contest that was a response to the publication of cartoons depicting Mohammed.

It's simple Newtonian mechanics really. For every action....

[Hicksey]

Why is it that liberals always side with terrorists?

Or is it just another case of them taking the opposite side conservatives do for the sake of opposition alone?

[M.Dancer]

Why is it that liberals always side with terrorists?

Or is it just another case of them taking the opposite side conservatives do for the sake of opposition alone?

Being a liberal, I must assume you are incorrect.

[M.Dancer]

I'm glad you like it. I notice you omitted the random missile attacks, but never mind.

Well OK, if you insist. The missile attacks didn't start until after Israel started bombing Lebanon.

Wow.....if only that were true and you had all the facts in front of you. Hezbollah have been using southern lebanon and particulary UNIFIL locations since 2004 to shell and launch missile attacks against northern Israel. Not to metion that there were Hezbollah incursions before this summer. But everyone has the memory of a hamster....it's only last weeks news that matters and has nothing to do with Israel putting up with years of Hezbollah activity.

But i know, Israel bad Hezbollah cool........

[Hicksey]

Why is it that liberals always side with terrorists?

Or is it just another case of them taking the opposite side conservatives do for the sake of opposition alone?

Being a liberal, I must assume you are incorrect.

Perhaps I should have used the capital L.

[M.Dancer]

Why is it that liberals always side with terrorists?

Or is it just another case of them taking the opposite side conservatives do for the sake of opposition alone?

Being a liberal, I must assume you are incorrect.

Perhaps I should have used the capital L.

I have voted for the Liberal Party every election since the late 80's. Support for Hezbollah is wide reaching, especially amongst the extreme right and left.

[M.Dancer]

I'm glad you like it. I notice you omitted the random missile attacks, but never mind.

Well OK, if you insist. The missile attacks didn't start until after Israel started bombing Lebanon.

I do insist.....

On March 12, 2002, in a Hezbollah shooting attack on the Shelomi-Metzuba route in northern Israel, six Israelis civilians were killed.[55]

On August 10, 2003, a 16 year old Israeli boy was killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hezbollah, and four others were wounded. [56]

In January 2005, Hezbollah planted five "improvised explosive devices" (IEDs) just on the Israeli side of the border near Zarit. An armored bulldozer sent to remove the mines was fired upon by anti-tank missiles, killing the bulldozer’s driver, Sgt. Maj. Jan Rotzanski.[57]

On April 7, 2005, Two Israeli Arabs from the village Ghajar near the Israel-Lebanon border were abducted by Hezbollah operatives. They were later released. [58]

On November 21, 2005 Hezbollah launched a heavy attack along the entire border with Israel which was intended to provide tactical cover for a squad of Hezbollah special forces attempting to abduct Israeli troops from the Israeli side of the village of Al-Ghajar.[59] The attack failed when IDF Paratroopers ambushed and killed 4 Hezbollah members and scattered the rest.[60] The IDF counter-attacked and destroyed Hezbollah's front line outposts and communication centers. The scope of the attack forced Lebanon (whose army does not control southern Lebanon) to request a cease-fire. Following the attack the UN Security Council denounced Hezbollah.[61] Commentators have speculated that the attack was an attempt to draw Israel into renewed conflict in Lebanon, alleviating diplomatic pressure on its backers Syria (which is under investigation for the assassination of Lebanese prime minister Rafiq Hariri) and Iran (which is under UN investigation regarding alleged violations of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty).[62]

On December 27, 2005, BM-21 Grad rockets fired from Hezbollah territory smashed into houses in the northern Israeli city of Kiryat Shmona wounding three people.[citation needed] UN Secretary General Kofi Annan called on the Lebanese Government "to extend its control over all its territory, to exert its monopoly on the use of force, and to put an end to all such attacks."[63] Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora denounced the attack as "aimed at destabilizing security and diverting attention from efforts exerted to solve the internal issues prevailing in the country."[citation needed] Hezbollah denied any responsibility or knowledge that an attack was going to take place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_He...Border_Conflict

The responsibility for the carnage in southern lebanon can fall easily between Hezbollah, whose activities sparked the conflagration, the lebanese gov't, who ignored security council resolutions to disarm hezbollah and to Israel, who had the audacity to not roll over and die as her enemies hoped.....

[Higgly]

The responsibility for the carnage in southern lebanon can fall easily between Hezbollah, whose activities sparked the conflagration, the lebanese gov't, who ignored security council resolutions to disarm hezbollah and to Israel, who had the audacity to not roll over and die as her enemies hoped.....

Nonsense. Disarming Hezbollah and folding it into the Lebanese army was under active public discussion in Lebanon at the time of the last outbreak. Less than a year earlier, Lebanon had expelled the Syrian army and secret service (no mean feat) after having had its Prime Minister murdered by Syrian agents. Prior to that, Lebanon had finally brought years of civil war to an end and embarked a massive reconstruction. All the more difficult given the damage that Israel did the last time it went psychopathic. Lebanon was dealing with its issues. The problem was not that Lebanon was not honouring its agreements. The problem was that Lebanon had more than it could deal with all at the same time.

Israel once again has fled Lebanon with its tail between its legs and the Israeli public whining about how things had gone wrong and who should be fired. Israel needs to leave Lebanon alone to work out its problems.

I'll leave aside the Security Council condemnation. How many of those have we seen? How about Resolution 446?

Given the general environment in the Middle East, the incidents you describe are minor border skirmishes and do not justify Israel's response. Reminds me of the neighbourhood mafioso who breaks the kneecaps of anyone who looks at his girlfriend. Israel the goon state.