Venezuela's Chavez buys Russian fighter planes to

[injusticebuster]

Two Russian-made Su-30 jets arrived in Venezuela on Sunday and Caracas plans to purchase 24 of the fighter jets from Moscow this year, the military announced, Xinhua news agency reports.

Chavez has also vowed to sell Venezuela’s F-16 fighter planes, if the United States refuses to provide spare parts to his country. Alberto Muller Rojas, the presidential advisor, has indicated that Venezuela is considering selling the planes to Iran if Venezuela does not receive spare parts from Washington.

He described Sukhoi Su-30s as “100 times better than the F-16s that Venezuela bought from the United States.”

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/07/03/su3...enezuella.shtml

[jdobbin]

Two Russian-made Su-30 jets arrived in Venezuela on Sunday and Caracas plans to purchase 24 of the fighter jets from Moscow this year, the military announced, Xinhua news agency reports.

Chavez has also vowed to sell Venezuela’s F-16 fighter planes, if the United States refuses to provide spare parts to his country. Alberto Muller Rojas, the presidential advisor, has indicated that Venezuela is considering selling the planes to Iran if Venezuela does not receive spare parts from Washington.

He described Sukhoi Su-30s as “100 times better than the F-16s that Venezuela bought from the United States.”

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2006/07/03/su3...enezuella.shtml

This is a traditional problem for nations that buy military products from one nation and then can't find parts for them when there regimes fall out of favour. Can't say I'm not surprised.

[GostHacked]

There is always someone else that would love your business when it comes to buying/selling military equipment. Shop around, you may even get a better deal.

[Cameron]

He described Sukhoi Su-30s as “100 times better than the F-16s that Venezuela bought from the United States.”

Hahahah, okieeeeee

[Shakeyhands]

He described Sukhoi Su-30s as “100 times better than the F-16s that Venezuela bought from the United States.”

Hahahah, okieeeeee

100 X might be an exaggeration but alot of people say the SU- 30 is "better" than the F-16....

Larger weapons payloads and deliverables as well as thrust vectoring being two advantaqdges that come quickly to mind.

[GostHacked]

He described Sukhoi Su-30s as “100 times better than the F-16s that Venezuela bought from the United States.”

Hahahah, okieeeeee

100 X might be an exaggeration but alot of people say the SU- 30 is "better" than the F-16....

Larger weapons payloads and deliverables as well as thrust vectoring being two advantaqdges that come quickly to mind.

Even the MIG-29 had been able to outperform the F-16 (although not at 100x). But the Su-30 and the F-16 were built for different roles. F-16 is more of an interceptor/attack/figheter. Then again, it really depends on the pilot, how well trained they are and how well they know the performance and feel of the aircraft. The SU-30 us air superiority fighter which is just really an upgraded Su-27 with canards and vector thrust and updated avionics.

This edit function has saved my butt a few times now.

[Argus]

He described Sukhoi Su-30s as “100 times better than the F-16s that Venezuela bought from the United States.”

Hahahah, okieeeeee

100 X might be an exaggeration but alot of people say the SU- 30 is "better" than the F-16....

Larger weapons payloads and deliverables as well as thrust vectoring being two advantaqdges that come quickly to mind.

I don't expect any of that will really come into play because if Chavez ever provokes the US enough that they'd be of any value the Americans are likely to just blow them all up on the ground.

Chavez would do better to spend those billions on his people, and stop waving his dick around trying to pretend he's another Bolivar.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I think the man has big brass ones!! He is looking after his people, don't ever think otherwise. That is why he is there.

Personally I would go with the F22, nice bird with good legs.

[Argus]

I think the man has big brass ones!! He is looking after his people, don't ever think otherwise. That is why he is there.

Personally I would go with the F22, nice bird with good legs.

How is he looking after his people by spending billions abroad, by subsidising oil to Cuba, by going to North Korea and Iran and claiming solidarity with the "justice" of them acquiring nuclear weapons.

[JMH]

He described Sukhoi Su-30s as “100 times better than the F-16s that Venezuela bought from the United States.”

Hahahah, okieeeeee

100 X might be an exaggeration but alot of people say the SU- 30 is "better" than the F-16....

Larger weapons payloads and deliverables as well as thrust vectoring being two advantaqdges that come quickly to mind.

Even the MIG-29 had been able to outperform the F-16 (although not at 100x). But the Su-30 and the F-16 were built for different roles. F-16 is more of an interceptor/attack/figheter. Then again, it really depends on the pilot, how well trained they are and how well they know the performance and feel of the aircraft. The SU-30 us air superiority fighter which is just really an upgraded Su-27 with canards and vector thrust and updated avionics.

This edit function has saved my butt a few times now.

Russion jets have outperformed (from an aeronautical perspective) their american counterparts for almost 2 decades. The jet doesn't matter any more. The radar and weapon/s delivery system is what counts.

Dogfight? Not this day and age.

Sukoi is now using western based systems in it's aircraft. I'm not aware of any modern fighter that isn't designed for multi-role opperations with the exception of the F-117( it's a bomber anyway).

I'm happy that Venezuala is being staight forward with the U.S. on this matter. Sure he may be a nutcase in our eyes, but who can blame him? U.S. foreign policy in Central and South America has always been criminal. As a matter of fact, can you think of one good thing that the U.S. has done with its foreign policy in the past 60 years?...........that didn't have something to do with them making money? How about a hundred years?

[GostHacked]

I'm happy that Venezuala is being staight forward with the U.S. on this matter. Sure he may be a nutcase in our eyes, but who can blame him? U.S. foreign policy in Central and South America has always been criminal. As a matter of fact, can you think of one good thing that the U.S. has done with its foreign policy in the past 60 years?...........that didn't have something to do with them making money? How about a hundred years?

Yes indeed. There are other markets to buy your stuff. Russia is good at selling what it can make. Like the US. It is just a game of who sells more. If Russia can back it's sale up with service, then I say why not. Go for it. Maybe even get some cheap and if you got the know how, upgrade as needed. I am sure Venezela has a decent tech sector to deal with that problem.

[Shady]

He is looking after his people

The fact that you refer to the Venezualan people as "his people" is disgusting. No population of any country is any leader's "people". I would be disgusted, as I'm sure all of you would be, if any Prime Minister of Canada refered to us has "his people". The fact that you use this type of language in conjunction with Chavez speaks volumns as to what Chavez is really all about.

[Machinations]

He described Sukhoi Su-30s as “100 times better than the F-16s that Venezuela bought from the United States.”

Hahahah, okieeeeee

100 X might be an exaggeration but alot of people say the SU- 30 is "better" than the F-16....

Larger weapons payloads and deliverables as well as thrust vectoring being two advantaqdges that come quickly to mind.

This shows how much people assume. Here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30

The Su-30 is one of the worlds most advanced fighters, and would, assuming equal pilot skill, have a significant advantage over the F-16 in dogfights.

[Machinations]

He is looking after his people

The fact that you refer to the Venezualan people as "his people" is disgusting. No population of any country is any leader's "people". I would be disgusted, as I'm sure all of you would be, if any Prime Minister of Canada refered to us has "his people". The fact that you use this type of language in conjunction with Chavez speaks volumns as to what Chavez is really all about.

So we should be worried about this democratically elected leader with ridiculously high approval ratings? The one who survived a US-backed coup? The same one who has rallied the poor and done a remarkable job in easing the suffering of Venezuela, not one of the worlds richest nations, while trying to wrest control of the nations oil resources from international conglomerates?

Yea, we should be real worried about him. How dare he nationalize his oil industry! They don't have the right! Who cares that the people of Venezuela have repeatedly elected him - lets assassinate him!

I believe Pat Robertson, from the 700 Club, called for this very thing. So you know you have God on your side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez

You sad little brainwashed pandas.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Chavez has the balls to stand up to anyone who he believes is in opposition to either his or his governments best interests and views. Isn't that what we all want? While he is known to have issues with US economic influence in his country, the citizens have benefited from his presidency.

Look at some of the stats from 1970-1998 the per capita income in Venezuela fell by 35 percent. Since then it has gone up and from 2004-2006 it rose by some 27%. The guy has a 77% approval rating in that country. Poverty rates have fallen to a little less than 39% from a little over 55%. With these things mind, I have to say that he has and is being good for his country.

[GostHacked]

He is looking after his people

The fact that you refer to the Venezualan people as "his people" is disgusting. No population of any country is any leader's "people". I would be disgusted, as I'm sure all of you would be, if any Prime Minister of Canada refered to us has "his people". The fact that you use this type of language in conjunction with Chavez speaks volumns as to what Chavez is really all about.

His people as in all Venezualans. Just as all Canadians are 'my people'. It was not meant as all Venezeualans are his subjects or slaves. His people, in the sense he represents them. They elected him. Learn the language and you will understand as well 'my son'.

[jdobbin]

Here's my question: If Canada bought Su-30s, would Montreal still have won the maintenance contract over Winnipeg? I just have to know.

[Shady]

His people as in all Venezualans. Just as all Canadians are 'my people'. It was not meant as all Venezeualans are his subjects or slaves. His people, in the sense he represents them. They elected him. Learn the language and you will understand as well 'my son'.

LOL, nice try. In representative governments, the general population are no leaders "people". Even though you leftist, strong-centralized government types seem to think that way. And all Canadians are your people? LOL, how so?

[GostHacked]

His people as in all Venezualans. Just as all Canadians are 'my people'. It was not meant as all Venezeualans are his subjects or slaves. His people, in the sense he represents them. They elected him. Learn the language and you will understand as well 'my son'.

LOL, nice try. In representative governments, the general population are no leaders "people". Even though you leftist, strong-centralized government types seem to think that way. And all Canadians are your people? LOL, how so?

Wow you really do not understand or get it. Let me break it down for you. My people, as in Canadians, we are one people, we identify with one thing. Let's say the Canadian Flag. We are a people. My people, meaning I am a part of it. Again it is not in the sense of you all are my slaves. If you like to keep thinking that then fine, I cannot change your mind.

This kind of thing is acceptable in alot of tribes. Native North American Indians (for example and purley for example) has cheifs, and the elected chiefs often claim the tribe as his people. Meaning he will protect his people, for they have elected him the chief and best suited for the job. I don't see how this is any different from Chavez claiming the same for his people? Being the elected leader with more than the popular vote.

[Argus]

Chavez has the balls to stand up to anyone who he believes is in opposition to either his or his governments best interests and views. Isn't that what we all want?

I refer to a British officer in Afghanistan speaking about how the guerrilas had balls, then, in that perfect British way, going on to add that this didn't necessarily imply they had any brains.

Look at some of the stats from 1970-1998 the per capita income in Venezuela fell by 35 percent. Since then it has gone up and from 2004-2006 it rose by some 27%.

Uhm, you don't think maybe this had something to do with the rising price of oil?

Which is a non-renewable resource, btw. When it's gone, it's gone. He should be spending it at home and building up his nation's educational and economic resources, not wasting it trying to buy friends among the Iranians, Cubans and North Koreans, and deliberately trying to piss off the Americans.

[GostHacked]

Which is a non-renewable resource, btw. When it's gone, it's gone. He should be spending it at home and building up his nation's educational and economic resources, not wasting it trying to buy friends among the Iranians, Cubans and North Koreans, and deliberately trying to piss off the Americans.

Yes because you only get true freedom and security through appeasing the United States.

And not just oil has increased, everything has increased and will keep on going that way. Venezuela is now at the point where they can produce more oil than they have evern been able to in the past. It is investing in itself and also (Like the US) is trying to make deals with people/countries he feels comfortable with.

The only thing Made in the USA these days is jets, tanks, hellocopters, missles, bullets, nuclear weapons ect ect. Oh wait, the electronics for most of this technology comes from China.

I would not mind a couple SU-30s. Bigger fan the the MiG-29, but the SUs own them in the sky. Give me the Gripen and I will be happy. South Africa and Former Hungary and Chzech Republic bought Gripens.

[Shady]

Chavez shows his true colours. Buddies up to the Jew-hating, holocaust-denying, terrorist-sponsoring President of Iran. Take a good look kook-left. That's your hero!

"We will stand beside Iran in every time and occasion and under every circumstance," Chavez vowed at the start of his two day visit to Tehran, his fourth visit to the Islamic republic since 2000

AP

[Drea]

Chavez shows his true colours. Buddies up to the Jew-hating, holocaust-denying, terrorist-sponsoring President of Iran. Take a good look kook-left. That's your hero!

"We will stand beside Iran in every time and occasion and under every circumstance," Chavez vowed at the start of his two day visit to Tehran, his fourth visit to the Islamic republic since 2000

AP

Chavez is a hero, yes. To his own people. To others in the same situation, yes. To us here in Canada? No. To us he's a leader making better lives for his people.

GW Bush is lauded as a hero to the American people yet he is a complidiot of the finest sense. (complidiot -- a new compound word using complete and idiot -- complidiot!)

Anyone who disagrees with the US is a terrorist sponsor -- okey dokey.

How many terrorists have "come out" of Venezuala lately? Pfft. Never mind that --how many have come out of Iran? Or Lebanon? Or Iraq? NONE!! The alleged plane flying terrorists allegedly came from Saudi Arabia -- the US's bestest friend in the whole-wide-world.

[Machinations]

How many terrorists have "come out" of Venezuala lately? Pfft. Never mind that --how many have come out of Iran? Or Lebanon? Or Iraq? NONE!! The alleged plane flying terrorists allegedly came from Saudi Arabia -- the US's bestest friend in the whole-wide-world.

(emphasis mine)

Don't EVER expect the fruitcakes to acknowledge this.

[Shady]

Anyone who disagrees with the US is a terrorist sponsor -- okey dokey

How did you come to that conclusion?

I never said that, or even implied that nonsense. Your argument is a strawman. I simply made an observation as to who his friends are, and to what his friends are (Castro, Ahmadinejad). In my opinion, it's very telling that he's become so close to a Jew-hating, holocaust-denying, terrorist sponsor. However, I can understand why you'd want to shift the subject, it's pretty hard to defend.

How many terrorists have "come out" of Venezuala lately?

I wasn't referring to Venezuala or Chavez as sponsor's of terrorism, I was referring to Iran.

Never mind that --how many have come out of Iran? Or Lebanon? Or Iraq?

None? LOL, are you being serious?

The alleged plane flying terrorists allegedly came from Saudi Arabia -- the US's bestest friend in the whole-wide-world

15 of the 19 hijackers where from Saudi Arabia, which was done for a reason. If Al Qaeda wanted 15 of the hijackers to instead be from Egypt, or Jordan, or Yemen, or Syria, or Iran, that could have been accomplished too. Al Qaeda recuits from all over the Middle East. However, Iran overtly funds hundreds of millions of dollars to various terrorist groups and individuals. Yes, Saudi Arabia is an ally of the United States. They're also an ally of most other Western Democracies.