Afghanistan

[Oleg Bach]

Presence for WHAT so Canadian troops in the meantime will be available as target practice and used as sacrificial lambs by murdering suicide bombers?

Yes I am NEW here...and immediately I do notice a lack of depth in some of the members...a real raw raw raw - we are at war" - A war is when there is a threat and it has to be countered - a hero is someone who squares off with the enemy and either takes them out or is taken out trying - as the writer above me mentions. "sacrifical lambs"......and suicide bombers....People who are so bound and determined to effect and discourage the invaders..There are no heros here - to be blown up while on the road while driving or walking and not knowing what hit you is not any different that a racoon getting kasmushed by a big SUV with a cell talking hockey mum doing her make up while on the move.

Can anyone explain to me...why we are wasting our best original breeding stock of human beings on dope growing goat herders? I just don't understand the purpose - You can go into the terrorist bull turd stuff and say that the mission is to protect us - but that don't fly with me....and please no 9 11 hysteria. As we all know the Saudi Arabians financed the strike and the inept American leadership were unintentional facilitators....yet no one - and I say no one - went to the sourse which was Saudi! Who ever puts up the bucks is fully responsible - but seeing the hand holding deviate prices of oil are the friends of overly privledged oil merchants...nothing happened - so could some one explain why we are not in Saudi Arabia removing the clowns that are full of glee and facination with torture and hate of the west?

[M.Dancer]

Can anyone explain to me...

Yes.

Go back and read what has already been written from page one of this thread.

[jbg]

Can anyone explain to me...why we are wasting our best original breeding stock of human beings on dope growing goat herders? I just don't understand the purpose - You can go into the terrorist bull turd stuff and say that the mission is to protect us - but that don't fly with me....and please no 9 11 hysteria. As we all know the Saudi Arabians financed the strike and the inept American leadership were unintentional facilitators....yet no one - and I say no one - went to the sourse which was Saudi! Who ever puts up the bucks is fully responsible - but seeing the hand holding deviate prices of oil are the friends of overly privledged oil merchants...nothing happened - so could some one explain why we are not in Saudi Arabia removing the clowns that are full of glee and facination with torture and hate of the west?

You won't believe it but it is failed states where terror is staged. Saudi Arabia may be a lot of bad things, but they're not going to risk inviting an invasion by allowing that kind of cr@p to be staged on Saudi soil.

[Oleg Bach]

You won't believe it but it is failed states where terror is staged. Saudi Arabia may be a lot of bad things, but they're not going to risk inviting an invasion by allowing that kind of cr@p to be staged on Saudi soil.

Saudi soil is not where they physically set up a training center..of course not - but if but a few million in Saudi money goes towards establishing terror training centers else where - then - you must at least reprimand the source of the funding - and don't tell me that these former tent dwelling Mercedes driving Islamic all love the west and would not send a few buck to a son on an adventure - say one of the Bin Laden boys? Has no one even bothered to talk to the Saudi Princes and at least insinuate that they are facilitators..

.just a bit of pressure may be useful - and where is that tall lanky wayward son of a bitch who takes such glee in pretending he is Mohamid incarnate..You would thing that perhaps he may have just gone home and is staying at Uncle Ziadabahs house and told firmly -----"Osama - don't you dare go out side till we have at least a foot of bone removed from your legs..you stick out like a sore thumb" - I would say he's on Saudi soil - or maybe laying back in Crawford Texas shooting chipmunks from the front porch.

[jbg]

or maybe laying back in Crawford Texas shooting chipmunks from the front porch.

I guess this is the du jour Bush cheap shot?

[Oleg Bach]

I guess this is the du jour Bush cheap shot?

Yep - as cheap as it gets - want one? - they are free! Why is it I get the impression that this site is operating out of the back office of parliment hill---you guys should loosen your ties.

[capricorn]

I guess this is the du jour Bush cheap shot?

I caution you jbg, there will be more.

[jbg]

I caution you jbg, there will be more.

Beem me up. Is there no intelligent life here?

[Army Guy]

Yes I am NEW here...and immediately I do notice a lack of depth in some of the members...a real raw raw raw - we are at war" - A war is when there is a threat and it has to be countered

Welcome to the board, I'm curious as i might be one of those that are lacking depth....what do you base your comment of "what a war really is" do you have experiance as a military member, dable in history, or taken your comment out of the dictionary.

a hero is someone who squares off with the enemy and either takes them out or is taken out trying - as the writer above me mentions. "sacrifical lambs"......and suicide bombers....People who are so bound and determined to effect and discourage the invaders..There are no heros here - to be blown up while on the road while driving or walking and not knowing what hit you is not any different that a racoon getting kasmushed by a big SUV with a cell talking hockey mum doing her make up while on the move.

Is that what makes a Hero, Squaring off with an enemy, going toe to toe, much like Sgt Rock of yester year....hand grenades and machine guns...Canadian troops have been involved with hundards of such operations, but i guess you've forgotten to mention that fact....

What you do mention is those sacrifical lambs, and comparing thier lives and contributions to that of racoons i believe...these men and women have a job to do, one that is vital to the mission. the resupply of FOB's and the troops in the field. these people get up every morning of everyday, get into thier vehs and drive hundrds of klicks to drop off beans and bullets, everything needed to keep the mission going, and they do so knowing exactly what lays ahead of them, and all the dangers that entails...they do so knowing that they could be the next ones that make that long walk down the ramp and being loaded into the back of a herc. No they are hero's every one of them. atleast to me, as i have been one of those poor grunts waiting for the next conoy to come in.

They do this job without complaint, of temperture, often well above 60 celcuis inside a veh, road conditions often there are no roads, operating old and beaten up equipment, and attending atleast 10 to 20 Ramp cermonies " comrads lost to enemy action"...during thier stay in Afgan ...

they do all of that waiting patiently for those big honken helicopters to arrive so we won't have to travel the roads anymore...they do all that and more hoping that Canadians back home will atleast see fit to presure the government into purchasing more equipment that will allow more of them to come home....They do so praying that one day the Canadian people will see this mission as they do...as a noble act, a cause that is worth the price they may have to pay....assisting another nation to come out of the ashes.

[jdobbin]

DND is being told by the Harper Conservatives to keep the war on budget.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071202/...han_cda_funding

National Defence has been warned it will have to cover the costs of the Afghan war entirely out of its own budget next year, without any top-up from the federal Treasury Board, a political source has told The Canadian Press.

The directive went out recently from the Privy Council Office as planning for the 2008 budget reaches its peak, said an official who asked not to be named.

It's part of an increasingly determined effort by the Harper government to assert more civilian control over the military, which has been perceived as having too much leeway in both the conduct of the war and with the public purse, said the official.

At one recent meeting, the source said, political staff groused openly that the Conservatives "have spent $20 billion plus" on the military in new equipment and seen little political "sizzle" for the effort.

I think the increased cost of the war is an issue that the government does not want to talk about.

Meanwhile, Bob Rae said that he believe the Dutch intention is to leave in 2010.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...1202?hub=Canada

The Netherlands' decision to extend its stay in Afghanistan by two years was intended to put an end date on its participation in the NATO mission, Canada's Liberal foreign affairs critic said Sunday.

"The Dutch are saying there is no extension beyond 2010," Liberal foreign affairs critic Bob Rae told CTV's Question Period on Sunday. "It's very clear that the deal they made in Holland was to say, OK, we will go to 2010, but that's it, it's over at that point."

The war continues to rage and Taliban are being killed according to reports.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...VI_6L8CHe9SHDmA

An Afghan official says 40 insurgents have been killed in a series of battles with Afghan and NATO-led troops in the country's south.

Provincial police chief Sayed Agha Saqib says a three-day joint operation in a mountainous district in Kandahar province ended Saturday and left 35 insurgents dead.

He says 10 insurgents were also captured and that authorities recovered the militants' bodies, weapons and ammunition.

It still remains dangerous for NATO as two Danish soldiers killed Thursday

http://www.pr-inside.com/danish-soldiers-k...tan-r324353.htm

Two Danish soldiers were killed Thursday in a gunbattle with Taliban fighters in southern Afghanistan, the Scandinavian country's military said.

The soldiers were part of a Danish reconnaissance unit that came under fire in Gereshk Valley in Helmand Province, the Army Operational Command said.

A senior French general says the force is still insufficient to keep Afghanistan secure.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hki56I...fM19v5Iejn78tYw

NATO-led forces in Afghanistan do not have the means to secure the country in the face of a barrage of insurgent attacks, a senior French general with the force has warned.

"The 41,OOO soldiers in ISAF are largely insufficient to ensure security," said Brigadier General Vincent Lafontaine, the chief of planning for the International Security Assistance Force deployed here under a UN mandate.

"That does not mean we are going to lose this operation, but it is going to take a lot longer for us to finish the job," Lafontaine told visiting journalists this week at ISAF headquarters in the Afghan capital.

The Tories have already indicated that if they have a consensus or a majority, they will extend the mission to 2012. Increasingly, it looks like we will be on our own of we do.

[kengs333]

I always wonder what would have happened had the United States simply committed all of its resources to Afghanistan instead of using the war on terror as an excuse to go into Iraq. A multi-national force of 500,000 really would have done much in the course of a year than will ever be accomplished with the current half-hearted effort in twenty. And probably a lot cheaper, too.

[bush_cheney2004]

I always wonder what would have happened had the United States simply committed all of its resources to Afghanistan instead of using the war on terror as an excuse to go into Iraq.

I often wonder the same thing about Canada and other NATO members. Where were all the rest of their "resources"?

Edited December 3, 2007 by bush_cheney2004

[Keepitsimple]

It seems likely that the US presence in Iraq will diminish substantially over the course of the next two years. Don't be surprised if they commit a large number of troops to Afghanistan to make up for the wimpish attitude of our NATO partners. It seems nobody likes a cop nowadays, but everybody hollers for one when there's trouble. If we agree that we can't let Afghanistan's people fall back into what amounts to slavery, and the country into a breeding ground for terrorism, just where is Canada going to stand. Do we leave it to the US to clean it up? Do we leave Afghanistan out in the cold once again? Its called "making a stand on principle - making a stand on what's right". I guess we'll find out sooner or later.

[Fortunata]

At one recent meeting, the source said, political staff groused openly that the Conservatives "have spent $20 billion plus" on the military in new equipment and seen little political "sizzle" for the effort.

This does not surprise me. I've said many times that Harper cares nothing for the "cause" and plight of Afghani's or of Afghanistan, or of our military for that matter. He uses them all to raise his "personal" profile internationally by playing with the big boys.

[M.Dancer]

If he cared nothing for the militarynhe wouldn't be buying equipment they need.

[Fortunata]

If he cared nothing for the militarynhe wouldn't be buying equipment they need.

Of course he has to in order to get the international accolades and the bragging rights domestically he is in want of.

The article further says:

"Offloading the costs of the war on the department will have a major impact on just about everything," he said. "These guys want it both ways.

"They want to have a reputation of being strong on national security and strong on defence. Their idea of being strong is to make PR gestures when they're spending less than (former prime minister Pierre) Trudeau did on defence in terms of (gross domestic product)."

With most governments everything is a matter of optics but this government goes further imo. It's all talk one way and act another. Is this Steve's way of getting back at Hillier since they don't seem to want to can him because of his popularity with the troops and the public? I'm not sure what their rationale is but I don't think you can fight a war on the cheap. Our soldier's lives are worth more than that. Either spend up or get out.

[no queenslave]

Beem me up. Is there no intelligent life here?

Yes their is but it must be beyond your comprehension if you are asking such a question.

QUOTE "The Queen pays me to post that lawyers and judges do their job. I am not going to take any position contrary to the one I'm paid to take" by jbg

http://www.detaxcanada.org/kuhl.htm

[M.Dancer]

Yes their is but it must be beyond your comprehension if you are asking such a question.

QUOTE "The Queen pays me to post that lawyers and judges do their job. I am not going to take any position contrary to the one I'm paid to take" by jbg

http://www.detaxcanada.org/kuhl.htm

How much revenue do you derive from this detax site?

[no queenslave]

How much revenue do you derive from this detax site?

0

zero

http://detaxcanada.org/kuhl.htm

How much did you pay to read the document?

How much will it cost you to post the legal definition of a democracy from a legal dictionary?

How much do you get from the government ?

[M.Dancer]

0

zero

http://detaxcanada.org/kuhl.htm

How much did you pay to read the document?

How much will it cost you to post the legal definition of a democracy from a legal dictionary?

How much do you get from the government ?

How many times has Warman been convicted of Hate mongering?

[no queenslave]

How many times has Warman been convicted of Hate mongering?

Hate mongering against who? What nationality was the judge?What nationality was the complainant? What nationality are you?

You have no documentation to dispute any thing i posted so you want to get into the hate mongering excuse.

What country practices hate against the Palistinians? Do you know what hate mongering is?

Just another demonstration of your thinking your can use the racist card to hide all your hatred for others.

[M.Dancer]

Hate mongering against who? What nationality was the judge?What nationality was the complainant? What nationality are you?

You have no documentation to dispute any thing i posted so you want to get into the hate mongering excuse.

What country practices hate against the Palistinians? Do you know what hate mongering is?

Just another demonstration of your thinking your can use the racist card to hide all your hatred for others.

See that's the interesting thing. I was looking at detax and found some professional opinions about his site (mainly that it is a crook) and then stunbled on a site detailing his hate mongering. Que'lle Surprise I say to me self.....whu is it when you scratch a kook, a jew hater bleeds?

http://www.chrt-tcdp.gc.ca/search/view_htm...ing=1&lg=_e

So are you also a jew hater or merely a camp follower?

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/071212/.../afghan_cda2015

The Foreign Affairs Department has developed plans to keep a Canadian provincial reconstruction base in Kandahar until at least 2015, say federal officials.

The department has also started recruiting diplomatic staff to fill posts at the base for one-year assignments that stretch beyond Parliament's self-imposed February 2009 deadline for an end to the military mission.

Sources within the department told The Canadian Press the two diplomatic openings currently being filled run from the fall of next year to the fall of 2009.

The provincial reconstruction base, nestled in an old fruit canning factory in a Kandahar suburb, was set up in 2005. It functions as the headquarters for Canada's reconstruction efforts, giving development officials, the RCMP and correctional officers a secure location from which to help Afghans rebuild their shattered country.

The base, while protected by the Canadian military, is entirely separate from the combat units, located at Kandahar Airfield, NATO's principal base in southern Afghanistan.

It looks like plans are extending well beyond 2009. You have to wonder if this will be followed by a military extension until 2015.

Fighting continues in Afghanistan.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hKvI97..._youiNbB9aq0Hqw

More than 50 Taliban were killed in two days of intense clashes in southern Afghanistan after the rebels were pushed out of a nearby stronghold, the defence ministry said Wednesday.

The fighting took place in a district of Helmand province neighbouring Musa Qala, where the Afghan army mounted a campaign that on Monday drove out Taliban rebels who had been entrenched there for 10 months.

"The terrorists, after being defeated in Musa Qala, attempted to put pressure on Sangin district. During 48 hours of intense clashes around Sangin, over 50 terrorists have been killed," the ministry said in a statement.

It said three of the dead were foreign nationals, a reference to Al-Qaeda-linked foreign fighters who are said to be helping the Taliban in their insurgency against the government and its mainly Western allies.

Soldiers were moving through the small southern town in Afghanistan's opium-growing core.

"We are using loudspeakers on top of our vehicles, in mosques and other places, and are calling on those who somehow have picked a gun to lay down their arms and live peacefully," said the top Afghan commander in the south.

It looks like two U.S. soldiers were killed in a roadside blast today.

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...Tra1_KHy7k-EcKQ

A roadside blast has struck a NATO military convoy in eastern Afghanistan, killing two soldiers and wounding three others.

NATO did not identify the nationality of the killed and wounded soldiers or the exact location of the blast.

[jdobbin]

The focus on Afghanistan has now once again began as the year closes. Worries about the year to come are starting to take shape. The murder of Bhutto promises the next days before the election could be tense ones where violence could spill over to the entire region. Hillier and McKay were present at Christmas to show support for the troops. The issue of Hillier further embarrassing the government cannot be overlooked.

http://www.thestar.com/columnists/article/288876

He skirmished so often with Gordon O'Connor over everything from procurement to funeral expenses that Stephen Harper finally shuffled the former arms industry lobbyist he had unwisely made defence minister. More recently, Hillier darkened the rosy hue of Tory Afghanistan forecasts and redefined the job for his successors.

Hillier's folksy frankness makes him a mess hall and Don Cherry Hockey Night in Canada favourite. Reviews here are more mixed. Debate swirls over whether or not he criss-crosses the line that traditionally separates senior public servants from elected public figures. Compelling cases are made both ways, but the consensus is that Hillier is now way above the parapet most bureaucrats are comfortable staying below.

The irony is that Conservatives, now keen to change the Afghanistan channel to something more benign, wouldn't mind seeing the back of the general they found so helpful when the mission was all about 9/11 retribution and killing murderous scumbags. But Hillier is too popular with the troops and the public to be forced out and that makes the next move his.

Being trapped in a box of their own making should make politicians wary of building more. Not a chance. It's just too appealing to be able to shift responsibility from accountable ministers to theoretically anonymous deputies when things go wrong.

Meanwhile, the actions of the Afghan government are somewhat murky this week with the expulsion of two diplomats.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iUxo5l...JXSXCKsuO6jApMA

he second most senior European Union official in Afghanistan and a top UN political advisor left the country Thursday after being expelled by the government for posing a threat to national security.

The governor of the southern province of Helmand insisted meanwhile that the EU official, a deputy head of mission, had made contact with the Taliban during a recent visit.

The claim was dismissed by the United Nations and by the insurgents themselves who accused Kabul of creating "a drama" and trying to show it was independent of its international backers.

The men -- Irish national Michael Semple with the EU and Briton Mervyn Patterson -- flew out of Kabul early Thursday after being declared persona non grata on Tuesday and given 48 hours to leave.

The Afghan government has just resumed the firing squad. This could be an issue in terms of who we hand over and whether justice has been served.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/arti...raises_concern/

The revival of the death penalty has sparked concern among many of the nations that provide Afghanistan with military and financial aid. Beyond moral qualms, critics and human-rights activists are worried about the ultimate punishment being meted out by a justice system widely regarded as corrupt and incompetent.

It seems no matter who is elected in the U.S. that troop levels are likely to go up.

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/12/27/18468970.php

The Bush administration is preparing to significantly increase US troop levels in Afghanistan in an attempt to quell growing popular hostility to the US and NATO occupying forces. It is doing so with full confidence that it will face no significant opposition from the Democratic-controlled Congress. On the contrary, much of the criticism from leading Democrats of the administration’s conduct of the war in Iraq has been based on the charge that the US preoccupation with Iraq has diverted troops and resources from what they claim is the real center of the “war on terror”—namely, Afghanistan.

The Afghan ambassador to Canada says we should prepare to be in Afghanistan a very long time.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/National

Afghanistan's ambassador to Canada wants Canadians to take a world view of the problems in his country, saying Western leaders understand there is no "quick fix."

Omar Samad said yesterday that weekend visits to Afghan President Hamid Karzai by French President Nicolas Sarkozy, Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi and new Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd are "a political signal ... that they consider Afghanistan a very important world issue.

"I hope that the message that this sends to Canadians at this point is that they should look at it as a very critical and strategic world issue that requires long-term commitment," Mr. Samad said.

As winter closes off the passes, violence continues in the country. NATO now says that dead bodies are being used as IEDs alongside the road. Three Canadian soldiers were hurt in a bomb several days ago.

The Dutch have set what they say is a firm date to leave in 2010. Their departure could affect the Australians next.

Edited December 30, 2007 by jdobbin

[kengs333]

NATO now says that dead bodies are being used as IEDs alongside the road. Three Canadian soldiers were hurt in a bomb several days ago.

Well, if that's true, then that means that dead bodies laying around is quite commonplace. That says much.