The MOU

[gatomontes99]

BBC

1. "The immediate and permanent termination of military operations on all fronts, including in Lebanon"

2. US and Iran to "respect each other’s sovereignty and territorial integrity and to refrain from interfering in each other’s internal affairs"

3. They "commit to negotiating and achieving the final deal in maximum 60 days, extendable with mutual consent"

4. Immediately, the US "will begin the removal of its naval blockade... and will fully end the naval blockade within 30 days"

5. In the Strait of Hormuz, Iran "will make arrangements using its best efforts for the safe passage of commercial vessels with no charge, for 60 days"

6. The US undertakes "with regional partners to develop a definitive, mutually agreed plan with at least USD $300 billion for the reconstruction and economic development of" Iran

7. US to "terminate all types of sanctions against" Iran

8. Iran "reaffirms that it shall not procure or develop nuclear weapons", but other parts of the programme are still to be negotiated. The two parties "agreed to discuss the issue of enrichment and other mutually agreed matters related to the Islamic Republic of Iran’s nuclear needs"

9. Pending the final deal, the US and Iran "agree to maintain the status quo"

10. Upon signing, and until the termination of sanctions, US Treasury will "issue waivers for the export of Iranian crude oil, petroleum products, and derivatives, and all associated services"

11. US undertakes "to make fully available for use the frozen or restricted funds and assets" of Iran

12. "An executive mechanism will be established to monitor the successful implementation" of this memorandum

13. After signing - subject to implementation of points 1, 4, 5, 10 and 11 - the US and Iran "will start negotiations regarding the final deal exclusively on the other paragraphs"

14. "The final deal will be endorsed by a binding UNSC (United Nations Security Council) resolution"

********

I am a little concerned that Iran is not barred from having any fissonable material. However, if this leads to Iran normalizing with the Western world, it will be worth it. If they go back to their old ways, it won't. 

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said:

BBC

1. "The immediate and permanent termination of military operations on all fronts, including in Lebanon"

2. US and Iran to "respect each other’s sovereignty and territorial integrity and to refrain from interfering in each other’s internal affairs"

3. They "commit to negotiating and achieving the final deal in maximum 60 days, extendable with mutual consent"

4. Immediately, the US "will begin the removal of its naval blockade... and will fully end the naval blockade within 30 days"

5. In the Strait of Hormuz, Iran "will make arrangements using its best efforts for the safe passage of commercial vessels with no charge, for 60 days"

6. The US undertakes "with regional partners to develop a definitive, mutually agreed plan with at least USD $300 billion for the reconstruction and economic development of" Iran

7. US to "terminate all types of sanctions against" Iran

8. Iran "reaffirms that it shall not procure or develop nuclear weapons", but other parts of the programme are still to be negotiated. The two parties "agreed to discuss the issue of enrichment and other mutually agreed matters related to the Islamic Republic of Iran’s nuclear needs"

9. Pending the final deal, the US and Iran "agree to maintain the status quo"

10. Upon signing, and until the termination of sanctions, US Treasury will "issue waivers for the export of Iranian crude oil, petroleum products, and derivatives, and all associated services"

11. US undertakes "to make fully available for use the frozen or restricted funds and assets" of Iran

12. "An executive mechanism will be established to monitor the successful implementation" of this memorandum

13. After signing - subject to implementation of points 1, 4, 5, 10 and 11 - the US and Iran "will start negotiations regarding the final deal exclusively on the other paragraphs"

14. "The final deal will be endorsed by a binding UNSC (United Nations Security Council) resolution"

********

I am a little concerned that Iran is not barred from having any fissonable material. However, if this leads to Iran normalizing with the Western world, it will be worth it. If they go back to their old ways, it won't. 

In other words, Iran wins 
 

Trump:

- caused a global economic crisis that wiped out billions and billions of value and ruined countless lives of allover US amd the world

- wasted a trillion dollars (and counting) of US taxpayer dollars,

-wasted the lives of US servicemen,

-wasted half the US stockpile of critical munitions

- alienated allies 

FOR NOTHING 

[SpankyMcFarland]

300 billion with a b sounds like winning to me for the IRGC. Which kinda rhymes. 

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

 FOR NOTHING 

What you are missing is that a "deal" is indeed a work of art, not a material object.  The art of the deal is subject to opinions, and as such it will be easy, I think, for the stakeholders to form a positive opinion of it.

 

Edit: Form in my use here, has two meanings: I can "form" an opinion in my adherents and individuals can also "form" their opinions based on their biases and available information from trusted sources.

Edited 3 hours ago by Michael Hardner

[Hodad]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

In other words, Iran wins 
 

Trump:

- caused a global economic crisis that wiped out billions and billions of value and ruined countless lives of allover US amd the world

- wasted a trillion dollars (and counting) of US taxpayer dollars,

-wasted the lives of US servicemen,

-wasted half the US stockpile of critical munitions

- alienated allies 

FOR NOTHING 

There is no other way to interpret it than a US loss.

Trump has whined for years that Obama returned $1.7B of frozen assets. Now Trump's going to unfreeze all their assets + send them $300B. 

Wow. All of this global and local suffering, and it looks like we'll end up exactly where we started before he ripped up the monitoring deal. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Hodad

[gatomontes99]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

In other words, Iran wins 
 

Trump:

- caused a global economic crisis that wiped out billions and billions of value and ruined countless lives of allover US amd the world

- wasted a trillion dollars (and counting) of US taxpayer dollars,

-wasted the lives of US servicemen,

-wasted half the US stockpile of critical munitions

- alienated allies 

FOR NOTHING 

What are you smoking? 

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

300 billion with a b sounds like winning to me for the IRGC. Which kinda rhymes. 

Ok, then what is the carrot you would use? There has to be a carrot. We have to have a way to create normalized relations with them. We can just keep bombing them every time they get out of line. 

So what carrot would you use to entice Iran to behave like humans? 

[gatomontes99]

There needs to be some context here. The MOU is an agreement to have an agreement. The details of the final agreement and it's enforcement mechanisms will be the deciding factors. 

Allowing Iran to rejoin the global market might be the drug that will make their terroristic tactics to costly to resume. If they are selling oil, at market rates, to the Western Countries, they will make more money than selling it to China at below market values. Which also means China won't have this oil advantage that they got from buying Iranian oil. That could be a win win. Add another win because now the oil market will have even more oil supply so we will see lower oil prices. 

I really want to see the final wording on the $300B investments and the nuclear programs. I just need to know what the triggers are that allow M.E. countries to invest in Iran. There has to be a hard line at any terrorism or supported terrorism.

Then, I am extremely leery of allowing them to have any nuclear program at all. I don't trust them with power plants. Their past behavior just does not lend itself to trusting them to make orange juice, much less handling enriched uranium. If....IF...we allow them to make nuclear power plants, the enrichment HAS TO BE enriched outside of Iran AND no mining of uranium. Hell, it should even be manned by expats exclusively. Send people from other countries to operate the facilities so there can be no funny business.

Finally, Iran could very well break this deal in October. I would not put it past them to misbehave in October just to affect our elections. 

 

[BeaverFever]

25 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

What are you smoking? 

The truth. You should try it sometime. Notice how you can’t even TRY to rebut any of those facts?

[BeaverFever]

27 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

What are you smoking? 

Ok, then what is the carrot you would use? There has to be a carrot. We have to have a way to create normalized relations with them. We can just keep bombing them every time they get out of line. 

So what carrot would you use to entice Iran to behave like humans? 

So bomb them and they pay them $300B so you can stop bombing them?  LMAO. 

 

Remember Trump was calling for unconditional surrender “or an entire civilization is going to die”. He didn’t say anything about carrots. 

[BeaverFever]

5 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

The MOU is an agreement to have an agreement.

Wow what an achievement 

 

5 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

Allowing Iran to rejoin the global market might be the drug that will make their terroristic tactics to costly to resume

Well since you suddenly have a newfound interest in “context” the context is that in 2018  tore up the agreement Obama had in place and WAS WORKING because he claimed Iran can’t be trusted and doesn’t deserve incentives only threats - sticks only not carrots.   Tearing uo that agreement allowed Itan to accelerate its uranium enrichment from 3% to 60%.  
 

Now you are paying them $300 billion to return to the Obama status quo, maybe with even fewer sanctions, and with more uranium. All it cost you was a trillion plus taxpayer dollars, a global economic crisis that wiped out maybe another trillion of wealth, the lives of a few servicemen, half your inventory of certain strategic munitions  and the reputation of the United States as invulnerable superpower. Great job!

17 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

they are selling oil, at market rates, to the Western Countries, they will make more money than selling it to China at below market values. Which also means China won't have this oil advantage that they got from buying Iranian oil.

There is no reason to assume they will sell to the western markets instead of China. 
 

18 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

Add another win because now the oil market will have even more oil supply so we will see lower oil prices. 

Which is needed because of the crisis you crawled in the first place that drove up oil prices. When you stupidly set the house on fire against everyone’s advice you don’t get to take a victory lap because you helped eventually put out the fire and save the smouldering basement. 

 

 

[gatomontes99]

1 minute ago, BeaverFever said:

The truth. You should try it sometime. Notice how you can’t even TRY to rebut any of those facts?

You know why? Because it was too easy.

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

caused a global economic crisis that wiped out billions and billions of value and ruined countless lives of allover US amd the world

Wages are outpacing inflation, despite false reporting to the contrary:

Those numbers are inflation adjusted.

Lie #1 disproven

**********

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

- wasted a trillion dollars (and counting) of US taxpayer dollars,

Over 108 days, the war in Iran cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $113.3 billion — counting from the first strike on February 28 through June 16, 2026. The clock has been stopped and the count preserved as a record.

Lie #2 disproven

*********

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

-wasted the lives of US servicemen,

No one's life was wasted. The Iranian regime planned to make and use nuclear weapons. It sucks that anyone lost their life. But preventing nuclear Holocaust is never a waste. 

Lie #3 debunked

**********

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

-wasted half the US stockpile of critical munitions

That is not even remotely true. We used a lot of the key things we needed in Iran. But, we largely used the low tech stuff in Iran because Iran couldn't stop them. The high tech stuff is untouched. There are 7 munitions types that we used that are low. But they are low because we don't keep excess just lying around. We keep what we need, plus a little more. So, yes, when we use them the inventory is lower than we want and we have to buy more. CSIS

Lie #4 disproven

*********

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

- alienated allies 

No one was alienated. A few scared little pussìes hid under their beds in the beginning. Now that they see what was accomplished, they have come around. They were not, however, allies. They were leeches that only wanted us to be their enforcer for their purposes. They had no interest in helping us with our interests. So screw them. 

 

[gatomontes99]

57 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

So bomb them and they pay them $300B so you can stop bombing them?  LMAO. 

 

Remember Trump was calling for unconditional surrender “or an entire civilization is going to die”. He didn’t say anything about carrots. 

They were supporting terrorists and developing nukes. They refused to negotiate. The bombing got them to the table and disabled all of their terroristic abilities. The investments will hopefully keep them from going back. 

37 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Wow what an achievement 

Not an achievement. A step in the right direction. 

Quote

Well since you suddenly have a newfound interest in “context” the context is that in 2018  tore up the agreement Obama had in place and WAS WORKING because he claimed Iran can’t be trusted and doesn’t deserve incentives only threats - sticks only not carrots.   Tearing uo that agreement allowed Itan to accelerate its uranium enrichment from 3% to 60%.  

The JCPOA did not allow inspectors to visit actual centrifuges. The inspectors even said they declined to ask to visit the sites because they thought Iran might get mad. Effectively, Iran was enriching uranium toward weapons grade while using the money from their oil sales and the billions Obama gave them of tax payer money to fund enrichment and terrorism. 

Iran rejects US demand for inspection of military sites

 

Quote

Now you are paying them $300 billion to return to the Obama status quo, maybe with even fewer sanctions, and with more uranium. All it cost you was a trillion plus taxpayer dollars, a global economic crisis that wiped out maybe another trillion of wealth, the lives of a few servicemen, half your inventory of certain strategic munitions  and the reputation of the United States as invulnerable superpower. Great job!

And I disproved all those lies before. You just refuse to acknowledge reality. Plus, the US is not investing in Iran. M.E. countries are. They goal is to use people that are similar to them to influence the nation into becoming more civilized.

Quote

There is no reason to assume they will sell to the western markets instead of China.

 Do I really need to explain to you the differences between Black market and market rates? China will have to pay Iran market rates or they will just sell it to someone else. Ok. It does not matter who Iran sells it too, there is more supply and Iran gets more money. We win. They win. China loses. It is good. 
 

Quote

 

Which is needed because of the crisis you crawled in the first place that drove up oil prices. When you stupidly set the house on fire against everyone’s advice you don’t get to take a victory lap because you helped eventually put out the fire and save the smouldering basement. 
 

 

Oil prices will be lower than prewar. I swear. Did you not take any economics classes? 

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said:

What are you smoking? 

Ok, then what is the carrot you would use? There has to be a carrot. We have to have a way to create normalized relations with them. We can just keep bombing them every time they get out of line. 

So what carrot would you use to entice Iran to behave like humans? 

Behave humanely, perhaps? A lot of human behaviour is inhumane. I don’t think bombing campaigns set a good example other than convincing more Iranians that everybody is as bad as the mullahs.