The poorest states make more money than most countries

[BeaverFever]

14 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/jan/05/life-shanty-town-paris-abandoned-railway-petite-ceinture#img-1

 

That’s not how the French live that’s a migrant camp from back during the refugee crisis a few years ago. Meanwhile America is full of homeless tent cities inhabited by actual Americans, even in small towns. 

Edited May 8 by BeaverFever

[gatomontes99]

17 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Another Republican fails to understand the difference between GDP and average income. Go to Mississippi and it’s full of working poor people living in relative poverty with a far lower quality of life than what the average Canadian or European has, with shitty government services and the state dependent upon handouts from the federal government. 

I never said anything about income. 

18 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

The poverty rate in Mississippi of 17.8% is nearly DOUBLE the Canadian average of 10% and probably more than double when you account for differences in measurement  

You guys use some b.s. variable poverty line while we use a flat income line. So, yes, we have a higher rate of poverty. But you guys fake your numbers. 

https://foodbankscanada.ca/press-releases/food-banks-canada-report-highlights-hidden-poverty/

AI Summary: Canada’s official poverty statistics, primarily using the Market Basket Measure (MBM), have been criticized for underrepresenting the extent of poverty, highlighting that 10% live in poverty, while newer, broader metrics like the Material Deprivation Index (MDI) suggest closer to 25% are experiencing severe financial strain and cannot afford essential items. This discrepancy arises because official measures focus on disposable income thresholds rather than actual living standards, failing to fully capture debt, high housing costs, or the realities of food insecurity, which has seen record, rising usage.

**********

You guys have 25% poverty?! Are you fućkìng kidding me?!That is ìnsane!

[gatomontes99]

23 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

That’s not how the French live that’s a migrant camp from back during the refugee crisis a few years ago. Meanwhile America is full of homeless tent cities inhabited by actual Americans, even in small towns. 

Ok, this is from few months ago. Is that better?

https://planete-eed.org/en/back-to-school-childrens-workshops-slums-in-france/

However, that wasn't my point. The point is a picture, without context, is meaningless. Ironically, your antagonistic reply helped to prove my point. 

[Hodad]

3 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Yuh huh, did you factor in the Nordic tax rate? 

You're going to have to make up your mind what you want to compare. 

No, GDP (raw or per capita) does not account for tax rates, just economic activity. 

PPP is more useful because it allows one to account for differences in cost of living.

If you want to consider tax rates also, you'd want to look at something like measurements of disposable income, relative to COL. 

For example, if I make about $300K in NYC and the same in Oslo, my total tax burden would be just shy of 40% in NYC, but would actually be about a point less in Oslo. -- But in Oslo my rent would also be half as much, my childcare would be about 75% cheaper and I wouldn't have to pay for health coverage. 

So not only would I have more disposable income, but it would go much further because of the lower cost of living. Lower cost, higher quality of life. 

The thing people forget about taxes is that they're not just a cost, they also provide benefits. 

 

[paxamericana]

42 minutes ago, Hodad said:

You're going to have to make up your mind what you want to compare. 

What I’m suggesting to you is that the countries you’re claiming has better PPP than the US doesn’t account for tax havens like Switzerland or their heavy reliance on energy sector. Those often skew the per capita figures. They don’t have a diverse economy that represents a larger country’s economy. Not everyone works in oil and gas or finance/banking okay. Norway Medium house hold income is actually trailing the US.

Edited May 8 by paxamericana

[Hodad]

54 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

What I’m suggesting to you is that the countries you’re claiming has better PPP than the US doesn’t account for tax havens like Switzerland or their heavy reliance on energy sector. Those often skew the per capita figures. They don’t have a diverse economy that represents a larger country’s economy. Not everyone works in oil and gas or finance/banking okay. Norway Medium house hold income is actually trailing the US.

What did you not understand about that post? 

The household income is not a normalized figure. That's why you would use an apples to apples number like PPP. 

And, as I explained, you'd want to measure disposable (after tax) income and then compare that against cost of living. 

The taxes are high-ish in Nordic countries (Switzerland is not Nordic, btw) but not really higher than the total burden in our comparable US Metros. And, in exchange for their taxes, on top of quality infrastructure, they get health care, child care, college tuition, retirement etc. And more affordable housing to boot. Some stuff is more expensive, but net it out and they really do have a better situation for the VAST majority of the population. There's not really any dispute there. 

The US system is better for the rich, but everyone else is worse off. And the rich are fine everywhere. 

Our GDP is rising, but the middle class is shrinking. The wealthy are keeping larger and larger portions of the growth. CEO pay is already many many times greater than employee pay, and it continues to grow at a faster rate too. The wealth gap is killing us. We're not on a good trajectory. Millennials, Gen Z are progressively worse off than the generations before. 

The Nordic countries have prioritized the middle class, and it's paying dividends. 

[User]

6 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

That’s not how the French live that’s a migrant camp from back during the refugee crisis a few years ago. Meanwhile America is full of homeless tent cities inhabited by actual Americans, even in small towns. 

Same in Canada…

[BeaverFever]

6 hours ago, User said:

Same in Canada…

‘Murka is waaaay worse. 

[BeaverFever]

12 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

Ok, this is from few months ago. Is that better?

https://planete-eed.org/en/back-to-school-childrens-workshops-slums-in-france/

 

It’s nothing in scale compared to America’s PERVASIVE poverty problem and as I mentioned in Europe it’s mostly migrants not citizens 

[BeaverFever]

12 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

I never said anything about income. 

You guys use some b.s. variable poverty line while we use a flat income line. So, yes, we have a higher rate of poverty. But you guys fake your numbers. 

https://foodbankscanada.ca/press-releases/food-banks-canada-report-highlights-hidden-poverty/

AI Summary: Canada’s official poverty statistics, primarily using the Market Basket Measure (MBM), have been criticized for underrepresenting the extent of poverty, highlighting that 10% live in poverty, while newer, broader metrics like the Material Deprivation Index (MDI) suggest closer to 25% are experiencing severe financial strain and cannot afford essential items. This discrepancy arises because official measures focus on disposable income thresholds rather than actual living standards, failing to fully capture debt, high housing costs, or the realities of food insecurity, which has seen record, rising usage.

**********

You guys have 25% poverty?! Are you fućkìng kidding me?!That is ìnsane!

We don’t have 25% poverty. People who self report experiencing “financial strain” aren’t living in poverty. 
 

We don’t use a BS measure US does. why don’t you link to a US antipoverty group site and see how generously they measure US poverty?

[User]

29 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

It’s nothing in scale compared to America’s PERVASIVE poverty problem and as I mentioned in Europe it’s mostly migrants not citizens 

Oh man, the classic Beaver distraction.

Get called out in one comment, then quick, change the subject, make another assertion! 

[User]

37 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

‘Murka is waaaay worse. 

By what measure?

You can see these tent/homeless encampments in Canada as well. 

[BeaverFever]

12 hours ago, User said:

By what measure?

You can see these tent/homeless encampments in Canada as well. 

They are smaller and there are fewer of them

A while back I stumbled across the conservative American’s YT channel which is actually an entertaining and politically incorrect take on cities and relocation and real estate, they drive around cities look a t real estate prices talk about various pros and cons including the bad neighbourhoods and talking to “bums and weirdos” with plenty of right wing commentary spiced throughout   They did a roadtrip to Canada last year. He doesn’t understand why Trump tariffs are all over the news (this was last year right at the start of the trade war) and thinks it’s “media brainwashing”  so I know you’ll like the content. But more importantly he can’t get over how little poverty there is,  how few fat people there are and how the “bad”neighbourhoods and tent cities he was told to check out aren’t that bad compared to USA. 
 

 

 

[BeaverFever]

12 hours ago, User said:

Oh man, the classic Beaver distraction.

Get called out in one comment, then quick, change the subject, make another assertion! 

I didn’t change the subject gato claimed poverty is worse in France than USA and I called BS on that. 

[User]

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

They are smaller and there are fewer of them

ROFL, Canada has far fewer people….

 

[gatomontes99]

On 5/8/2026 at 11:03 PM, BeaverFever said:

I didn’t change the subject gato claimed poverty is worse in France than USA and I called BS on that. 

I did not. I claimed the GDP is lower in France than the lowest GDP of all the states.