Formulation of a great new deal for deadbeats

[paxamericana]

Europe is responsible for its own conventional military deterrence. US to provide nuclear strategic umbrella. Europe to invest in MAGA and buy down tariffs.

[John Stone]

 

The concern for the US strategically is that it is a global power?

Arguably it would like to remain so. 

Difficult to imagine Europe as a global power. lol

The truth is that the US needs Europe in so many ways; defense, commerce, geo-political, intel, etc.  

The pundits are speculating that if the U.S. dropped out of NATO if would be wanting back within several years - and then the negotiations would really begin. 

Europe certainly does not need the U.S. for defense.

The US does need Europe in terms of commerce, defense and ideology.

The speedbump for Europe is the diversity ...... but NATO and Putin have smoothed those out a bit and forced the continent to deal with reality................ it is def capable in terms of military strength, technology, science and for the most part ideology. (fk Putin in particular and Russia in general). 

It's revealing to do a comparison of Russian (sans Warsaw Pact) vs NATO (or akin) without the US.

Cutting to the chase,  a European NATO(?) would have generally a 2x or more advantage in conventional  weapons. 

Edited April 21 by John Stone

[Nationalist]

54 minutes ago, John Stone said:

 

The concern for the US strategically is that it is a global power?

Arguably it would like to remain so. 

Difficult to imagine Europe as a global power. lol

The truth is that the US needs Europe in so many ways; defense, commerce, geo-political, intel, etc.  

The pundits are speculating that if the U.S. dropped out of NATO if would be wanting back within several years - and then the negotiations would really begin. 

Europe certainly does not need the U.S. for defense.

The US does need Europe in terms of commerce, defense and ideology.

The speedbump for Europe is the diversity ...... but NATO and Putin have smoothed those out a bit and forced the continent to deal with reality................ it is def capable in terms of military strength, technology, science and for the most part ideology. (fk Putin in particular and Russia in general). 

It's revealing to do a comparison of Russian (sans Warsaw Pact) vs NATO (or akin) without the US.

Cutting to the chase,  a European NATO(?) would have generally a 2x or more advantage in conventional  weapons. 

Actually...you're dreaming. Europe is not prepared for any sort of real war with anyone. If NATO is dissolved, they would be sitting ducks.

The "silver lining" might be the painful death of Ursula von der Leyen.

[herbie]

Take you nukes and go home and pout.

[Deluge]

6 hours ago, John Stone said:

The concern for the US strategically is that it is a global power?

Arguably it would like to remain so. 

Difficult to imagine Europe as a global power. lol

The truth is that the US needs Europe in so many ways; defense, commerce, geo-political, intel, etc.  

The pundits are speculating that if the U.S. dropped out of NATO if would be wanting back within several years - and then the negotiations would really begin. 

Europe certainly does not need the U.S. for defense.

The US does need Europe in terms of commerce, defense and ideology.

The speedbump for Europe is the diversity ...... but NATO and Putin have smoothed those out a bit and forced the continent to deal with reality................ it is def capable in terms of military strength, technology, science and for the most part ideology. (fk Putin in particular and Russia in general). 

It's revealing to do a comparison of Russian (sans Warsaw Pact) vs NATO (or akin) without the US.

Cutting to the chase,  a European NATO(?) would have generally a 2x or more advantage in conventional  weapons. 

Europe is about to overrun by Muslims and Juan Piedra is talking shit. lol

[robosmith]

9 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Europe is responsible for its own conventional military deterrence. US to provide nuclear strategic umbrella. Europe to invest in MAGA and buy down tariffs.

You mean "ILLEGAL tariffs" per SCOTUS which are in the process of being REFUNDED. LMAO

[paxamericana]

13 minutes ago, robosmith said:

REFUNDED

Nope new tariff.

25 minutes ago, herbie said:

Take you nukes and go home and pout.

No, the moment we do that, everyone gets a nuke. Not going to happen.

Edited April 21 by paxamericana

[herbie]

Gonna stop Poland? 
What about if your wrong wing buds in Canada ever win and decide we need nukes? We could have our own in months if we decided to.

You think they're even relevant when ONE GUY f-cked up 80 tears of world order without even threatening to use them?

[paxamericana]

42 minutes ago, herbie said:

Gonna stop Poland? 
What about if your wrong wing buds in Canada ever win and decide we need nukes? We could have our own in months if we decided to.

You think they're even relevant when ONE GUY f-cked up 80 tears of world order without even threatening to use them?

Gonna try.

You want a North Korean Pariah status for Canada is what you're implying? Having nuclear weapons and inability to feed your population?

[paxamericana]

8 hours ago, John Stone said:

Europe certainly does not need the U.S. for defense.

the same Europe that can't muster a single ship to sail the the straight?

8 hours ago, John Stone said:

The US does need Europe in terms of commerce, defense and ideology.

I think you got this reversed.

8 hours ago, John Stone said:

Russian

Have you considered the fact that the Chinese are also helping out the Russian? Europe to defend against a Sino-Russian threat all by themselves eh? You have alot more faith in Europe's defunct military. 

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Gonna stop Poland? 
What about if your wrong wing buds in Canada ever win and decide we need nukes? We could have our own in months if we decided to.

You think they're even relevant when ONE GUY f-cked up 80 tears of world order without even threatening to use them?

Man you blubber a lot. Do you carry on like this in front of your family?

Look Tweenkie-Poo...your fear-porn no longer works. All you do is further expose your need for fear to control the masses. But the results of your stupid ideas is incredibly visible now. 

But always remember...

"Elbows Up".

[John Stone]

23 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Actually...you're dreaming. Europe is not prepared for any sort of real war with anyone. If NATO is dissolved, they would be sitting ducks.

The "silver lining" might be the painful death of Ursula von der Leyen.

re: Europe is not prepared for any sort of real war with anyone.

Trump’s rhetoric is alienating the US from the West, he alienates friends and foes alike under the guise of a dealmaker and no longer regards Europe as an ally, but primarily as an adversary.

“even without the US there is NO question Europe can secure it defence independently in the future.” / Karl-Heinz Kamp, director of research at the NATO Defence College 

Moscow’s military capabilities for offensive operations and Europe’s capacity for deterrence and defence are not static but are developing dynamically in opposite directions

Europe realizes the trust in the US is gone.

While Russia’s economy showed unexpected resilience in the first two years of the Ukraine war, despite sanctions and the oil boycott, since 2024 all indicators have been trending downward for Russia.

Economic growth, which was already largely driven by the arms industry, is approaching zero. In 2025, revenue from oil and gas sales fell by 24%, and a further 46% decline is projected for 2026. That said, Trump’s ridiculous ‘excursion’ with Iran has been a windfall, but likely short-term

This does not mean that a total economic collapse is imminent though, nor that Russia cannot continue the war in Ukraine. Propaganda is running at full speed. LOL

The stockpile of stored (older – Cold War) armoured vehicles, which had been modernised and returned to the battlefield, is now nearly exhausted. Russia’s air force and satellite capabilities are particularly affected by long-standing sanctions and are correspondingly outdated.

The GDP of the European NATO countries is roughly $25 trillion, more than 10 times that of Russia.

Those that speak with authority re: Europe’s inability to defends itself have obviously not witnessed the power of NATO (specifically) or understand the leverage that is inherent in NATO” s  ability to intimidate to prevent ……..WWIII.

Could Europe defend itself without NATO ………. OMG, easily!

Could the U.S. remain the ‘big dog’ without NATO?

Doubtful.

Trump’s rhetoric re: NATO is just that……… the rhetoric comes from an 80 y/o, anachronistic, 4x (Vietnam era) draft dodger. Ya want the real gen ………. talk to serving military that have witnessed and been part of NATO exercises on land, at sea or in the air.  

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, John Stone said:

re: Europe is not prepared for any sort of real war with anyone.

Trump’s rhetoric is alienating the US from the West, he alienates friends and foes alike under the guise of a dealmaker and no longer regards Europe as an ally, but primarily as an adversary.

“even without the US there is NO question Europe can secure it defence independently in the future.” / Karl-Heinz Kamp, director of research at the NATO Defence College 

Moscow’s military capabilities for offensive operations and Europe’s capacity for deterrence and defence are not static but are developing dynamically in opposite directions

Europe realizes the trust in the US is gone.

While Russia’s economy showed unexpected resilience in the first two years of the Ukraine war, despite sanctions and the oil boycott, since 2024 all indicators have been trending downward for Russia.

Economic growth, which was already largely driven by the arms industry, is approaching zero. In 2025, revenue from oil and gas sales fell by 24%, and a further 46% decline is projected for 2026. That said, Trump’s ridiculous ‘excursion’ with Iran has been a windfall, but likely short-term

This does not mean that a total economic collapse is imminent though, nor that Russia cannot continue the war in Ukraine. Propaganda is running at full speed. LOL

The stockpile of stored (older – Cold War) armoured vehicles, which had been modernised and returned to the battlefield, is now nearly exhausted. Russia’s air force and satellite capabilities are particularly affected by long-standing sanctions and are correspondingly outdated.

The GDP of the European NATO countries is roughly $25 trillion, more than 10 times that of Russia.

Those that speak with authority re: Europe’s inability to defends itself have obviously not witnessed the power of NATO (specifically) or understand the leverage that is inherent in NATO” s  ability to intimidate to prevent ……..WWIII.

Could Europe defend itself without NATO ………. OMG, easily!

Could the U.S. remain the ‘big dog’ without NATO?

Doubtful.

Trump’s rhetoric re: NATO is just that……… the rhetoric comes from an 80 y/o, anachronistic, 4x (Vietnam era) draft dodger. Ya want the real gen ………. talk to serving military that have witnessed and been part of NATO exercises on land, at sea or in the air.  

Sounds like "Those that speak with authority" have you convinced. 

OK...Hopefully we will find out for sure.

[John Stone]

6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Sounds like "Those that speak with authority" have you convinced. 

OK...Hopefully we will find out for sure.

.............. I'm sure Kanada will be the first to find, not Europe. 

[Nationalist]

40 minutes ago, John Stone said:

.............. I'm sure Kanada will be the first to find, not Europe. 

Perhaps. And its "Canastan".

[herbie]

Listen to the alpha male tough guy supporter oif TACO man who's not afrannd of nukes.
All us weenie leftists are holding him back from achieving glory as a shadow on the sidewalk....

 

[Nationalist]

6 hours ago, herbie said:

Listen to the alpha male tough guy supporter oif TACO man who's not afrannd of nukes.
All us weenie leftists are holding him back from achieving glory as a shadow on the sidewalk....

 

Listen to the mindless traitor who lies with ease.