MAGA is goo-goo-ga-ga for spectacle

[WestCanMan]

38 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I've never been a Trudeau supporter. So stop making stupid assumptions.

In my list upthread of the selection of Project 2025 objectives that the trump admin has implemented or are working on, please for each one explain to me how they benefit the country.

It's ridiculous for you to take the position that I have to prove why a president's policy/action doesn't benefit the country. The only realistic assumption is that would be the case. 

A better idea, why don't you give me an example of one of those Trump policies or actions that doesn't benefit the country?

I'll do Obama as an example: When only 2 people on earth really knew why Trayvon Martin was shot, Obama decided to create the narrative that the only reason Martin was shot was because his skin was black: nothing else. He completely disregarded every detail of the story of the only person on earth who had any first-hand knowledge at all of what happened. Then photos of a 12-yr-old Trayvon were circulated, to make it seems as though he was a really cute little child, but Martin was over 17 yrs old at the time, and Obama smiled. (My son just turned 16 and he is over 6 feet tall right now, and he doesn't look like a 12-yr-old in any recent photos). Then, during all of the resulting violence, and the violence stemming from the false narrative surrounding the M Brown shooting, and the complete disregard of the videos showing Brown's rage attack from moments earlier, Obama just cheered on the rioting. 

 

So tell me, which of Trump's policies is bad? You have 319 to choose from. 

[Radiorum]

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It's ridiculous for you to take the position that I have to prove why a president's policy/action doesn't benefit the country.

That's not the challenge I put to you. You said the objectives were beneficial for the country. I gave you a selection of the objectives and asked you to explain how those particular objectives were beneficial to the country.

 

14 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I'll do Obama as an example: When only 2 people on earth really knew why Trayvon Martin was shot, Obama decided to create the narrative that the only reason Martin was shot was because his skin was black: nothing else. He completely disregarded every detail of the story of the only person on earth who had any first-hand knowledge at all of what happened. Then photos of a 12-yr-old Trayvon were circulated, to make it seems as though he was a really cute little child, but Martin was over 17 yrs old at the time, and Obama smiled. (My son just turned 16 and he is over 6 feet tall right now, and he doesn't look like a 12-yr-old in any recent photos). Then, during all of the resulting violence, and the violence stemming from the false narrative surrounding the M Brown shooting, and the complete disregard of the videos showing Brown's rage attack from moments earlier, Obama just cheered on the rioting. 

Massive whataboutism.

[User]

2 hours ago, Radiorum said:

He is following it faithfully. Do you think he is really interested in governing? His only interest is self-aggrandizement. With Project 2025, he has all the work done for him, leaving him to work on his own interests.

How so? You just gave me another baseless assertion.

 

2 hours ago, Radiorum said:

For each one, explain to me why “they had to be done.” Here they are -

Why do I have to explain anything about why they had to be done?

The point is that this list, even if we presume 100% of it perfectly aligns with Project 2025, still would only be like <5% of Project 2025.

but your list is only about half way matched up and the other half some not at all or just kind of.

Project 2025 is a laundry list of systemic change across the whole government and a ton of Conservative/Libertarian policies that go back way before Trump. 
 

So again, the fact that there is some overlap doesn’t prove anything about Trump lying about his involvement with Project 2025 or that he is somehow following it now. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Radiorum said:

That's not the challenge I put to you. You said the objectives were beneficial for the country. I gave you a selection of the objectives and asked you to explain how those particular objectives were beneficial to the country.

Your "challenge" was silly. 

1) I've seen Trump do a lot of things, try a lot of things, and promise a lot of things, all of them with America's best interests in mind. I'm perfectly happy to say that those 319 things were beneficial for America(ns), sight unseen. 

You can disagree with me if you want, but I'm not painting you a picture. 

2) I don't really care about your challenge, you're not going acknowledge any truth in anything anyways. 

Quote

Massive whataboutism.

No, it's an example of what I challenged you to do.

Like I said, it's pretty ludicrous to pretend that the actions of a sovereign were intentionally against their own country, so making that level of an accusation comes with a burden of proof that you haven't addressed.

I've always said that Obama acted against his country, and I just backed up my statement.

You're alleging that "Project 2025" was bad, and that Trump had a hand in it, and that these 319 things that Trump did are proof that Trump is doing the Bad project 2025 "stuff":

1. the burden of proof goes to the accuser. You're the one accusing him of fulfilling the bad 2025 agenda. How bad was Proj 2025? How bad are these 319 things? How unlikely is it that those were just 319 good ideas that Trump of any other phenomenal leader would have acted on, whether they ever heard of Proj 2025 or not? 
2. Can you cite any real bad policies at all from P2025? Or any bad policies out of the alleged 319? 

Dude, you just made a serious and completely vague accusation. 

[Radiorum]

17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I've seen Trump do a lot of things, try a lot of things, and promise a lot of things, all of them with America's best interests in mind. I'm perfectly happy to say that those 319 things were beneficial for America(ns), sight unseen.

This is what we call blind faith - most often a characteristic of being in a cult.

17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You can disagree with me if you want, but I'm not painting you a picture. 

That is because so much of what Trump is doing cannot be justified as "in the best interests of the country."

17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Obama

This thread is not about Obama.

 

17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You're alleging that "Project 2025" was bad, and that Trump had a hand in it, and that these 319 things that Trump did are proof that Trump is doing the Bad project 2025 "stuff":

1. the burden of proof goes to the accuser. You're the one accusing him of fulfilling the bad 2025 agenda. How bad was Proj 2025? How bad are these 319 things? How unlikely is it that those were just 319 good ideas that Trump of any other phenomenal leader would have acted on, whether they ever heard of Proj 2025 or not? 
2. Can you cite any real bad policies at all from P2025? Or any bad policies out of the alleged 319? 

Dude, you just made a serious and completely vague accusation. 

That post was made to make the point that Trump is a con man since just before the election he insisted he had nothing to do with Project 2025, but after inauguration Project 2025 became the guide for everything Trump as done.

Are the objectives I listed not good for the country? Read them. They are self-explanatory. You can't make the argument, for example, that - "It would be good if we had no oversight with cryptocurrency and no consumer protection."

Edited December 11, 2025 by Radiorum

[User]

12 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

That post was made to make the point that Trump is a con man since just before the election he insisted he had nothing to do with Project 2025, but after inauguration Project 2025 became the guide for everything Trump as done.

Except, you didn’t make that point. You are illogical concluding because some of what he does overlaps with Project 2025 that proves he lied. It doesn’t. 
 

You are also exaggerating and you are wrong, when you claim “everything” he does overlaps with it. 
 

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Radiorum said:

This is what we call blind faith - most often a characteristic of being in a cult.

Wrong. It's perfectly normal to make a reasonable or even an optimistic assumption, especially when there's nothing at stake. We didn't bet $50 grand on this. 

What's not normal, to the point of being considered cultist activity, is to flatly cling to ridiculous beliefs in the face of all evidence. 

Quote

That is because so much of what Trump is doing cannot be justified as "in the best interests of the country."

You couldn't even name 1 thing Trump did that wasn't in America's best interests, Radio. I challenged you to name 1 thing to go along with your serious accusation and you refused to try. 

I could just make the exact same generic accusation that you just made, and swap your name in for Trump's, and both of our statements stand as equally accurate, because they both have the same amount of evidence. Look:

• That is because so much of what Trump is doing cannot be justified as "in the best interests of the country."
• That is because so much of what Radiorum is doing is "for the sake of legalizing pedophilia."

My statement takes the exact same form as yours does: it's just a very serious criticism without even a hint of proof. 

Don't you think think that what I wrote on the second line needs a bit of proof to go along with it, now that the criticism is levelled against you instead of Trump? If I wrote that there in earnest wouldn't you demand that the mods take it down? Or that I get some sort of ban? 

Does a reasonable person look at what I wrote on the second line and jump to the conclusion that it is some kind of verifiable fact? 

So, again, where's your proof that "so much of what Trump does is not in the best interests of America"? Just say 1 thing, dude. Try to write down a factual supporting argument that I can't contradict. If you do, then you can at least say "Trump has done at least one thing as president that was not done with America's best interests in mind." 

I'm a guy who just requires some facts to go along with serious accusations, Radiorum, and apparently you aren't. So, do you suddenly just believe what was written about you there, or are you starting to see why people say "serious accusations come with a burden of proof"? 

Quote

This thread is not about Obama.

No shit, Sherlock. It's about Trump. But it's also about "citing examples of presidents doing things that directly harm the country", so I used Obama as a prime example of that, while you were unable to do the same for Trump. 

Quote

Project 2025 became the guide for everything Trump as done.

You're not even 1% towards making that argument. You can't even make the claim that 1 of the alleged "319 Proj 2025 items that were put into action by Trump went against America's best interests." 

If Project 2025 had 319 great ideas in it, who's to say that he shouldn't do those things? 

If it has 11,269.5 great ideas in it, and he pushes through 319 of them, does that mean he must have gotten them from there? Isn't it possible that several different people could come up with the same great idea simultaneously? Or soon after each other?

Would you expect Americans to say: "Dang, them's 319 swell ideas, cuz. It's too bad thayr in P2025, because I reckon they'd mek 'Murica a heckuva lot better."

• Lady: "OMG, there's a hole in the boat!"
• Conservative" "Let's patch the hole. I'll use this boat-hole patching kit!"
• Three minutes later, Leftist: "Maybe we should do something to stop water from coming through the hole, so the boat doesn't sink, and then we have to swim all the way to the far side of the lake. Let's put some butter in the hole."
• Two minutes later, Radiorum: "Wait. The conservative also wanted to fill the hole. Are you a Nazi too?"

[Radiorum]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

What's not normal, to the point of being considered cultist activity, is to flatly cling to ridiculous beliefs in the face of all evidence. 

You're describing yourself. I'll ask you one more time. How does it help the country if oversight with cryptocurrency is weakened and the office tasked with consumer protection is eliminated?

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

My statement takes the exact same form as yours does: it's just a very serious criticism without even a hint of proof. 

With this, I have to believe that you just didn't understand what I posted. I have given you a solid argument, but I am not obliged to give you an understanding. Comprehension is your responsibility. 

I urge you to broaden your horizons to find out what is really going on. 

 

[User]

1 hour ago, Radiorum said:

With this, I have to believe that you just didn't understand what I posted. I have given you a solid argument, but I am not obliged to give you an understanding. Comprehension is your responsibility. 

I urge you to broaden your horizons to find out what is really going on. 

I see you have run away from your earlier claims on Project 2025... ROFL

[Radiorum]

23 minutes ago, User said:

I see you have run away from your earlier claims on Project 2025... ROFL

What claims did I run away from?

[User]

11 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

What claims did I run away from?

Sigh, why must you act like this? You are no longer responding to your claims about Project 2025... 

 

[Radiorum]

3 minutes ago, User said:

Sigh, why must you act like this? You are no longer responding to your claims about Project 2025... 

I honestly don't know what you are talking about

[User]

9 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I honestly don't know what you are talking about

You know what... maybe there really is something wrong with you, and you don't. 

[CdnFox]

16 hours ago, Radiorum said:

One of his biggest cons was insisting before the election he had nothing to do with Project 2025.

In the video clip below, he is saying it: "I have nothing to do with Project 2025"

 

 

But since his inauguration, Project 2025 has become the guiding light of his administration.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but that's just a lie.

He had nothing to do with the creation of project 2025. That appears to be the case. And there is much evidence to support that being true

Subsequent to that he has failed to follow through on the vast majority of project 2025 ideals. He has done some things which appear to be in 2025, but they're just conservative ideas that literally any conservative would tend to follow

He has done precisely what he campaigned on. He introduced tariffs which he campaigned on. He's going after illegals which he campaigned on. He's going after allies and trying to get them to spend what he feels is their fair share which he campaigned on. He's trying to put out wars that are happening across the world which he campaigned on.

Virtually everything he's doing is stuff he campaigned on

So pretending it's a con is of course simply just childishness. If something in the book happens to match what trump believes and campaigned on that's of no interest to anybody. He's doing what he campaigned on

[CdnFox]

11 hours ago, Radiorum said:

He is following it faithfully. Do you think he is really interested in governing? His only interest is self-aggrandizement. With Project 2025, he has all the work done for him, leaving him to work on his own interests.

 

The point is that Trump is a con since he said he had nothing to do with then turns around and has everything to do with it. 

As for the objectives themselves - are you familiar with them? Do you know what any of those 2025 objectives are? 

Listed below is a random selection of Project 2025 objectives - that are either completed or are in progress.

For each one, explain to me why “they had to be done.” Here they are -

Repeal energy efficiency standards for appliances.

Reduce regulations on cryptocurrencies.

Eliminate the Office for Civil Rights and Civil Liberties.

Eliminate the Office of the Citizenship and Immigration Services Ombudsman.

Rescind USAID policies that address climate change and help countries transition away from fossil fuels.

Dismantle USAGM's journalism "firewall" to align its reporting with the aims of the president.

Eliminate the Office of Environmental Justice and External Civil Rights.

Dismiss "the entirety" of the CISA Cybersecurity Advisory Committee.

Pursue the death penalty for all applicable crimes.

Prohibit the U.S. government from combating the spread of misinformation and disinformation.

Weaken regulations on baby formula.

Require all schools that receive federal funding to give students the military entrance test.

Let companies stop paying overtime and allow states to opt out of federal overtime and minimum wage laws.

Repeal the Corporate Transparency Act.

Reinstate Trump's limitations on the Endangered Species Act's definition of critical habitat.

Remove all unions in the Dept. of Homeland Security.

Weaken federal employee unions.

Eliminate the Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP).

Ban mixed-status families (U.S. citizens and noncitizens) from living in all federally assisted housing.

Abolish the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

"fully commercialize" the National Weather Service.

Eliminate the GEAR-UP program (provides low-income middle and high school students with academic assistance).

Trump campaigned on the idea that he would go after the woke and get rid of environmental policies that he felt were harmful to the economy. He also said he was going to slash inefficient departments.

Literally everything you've mentioned falls under one of those three and I'm sorry but he did campaign on it

So you can't claim con man.

It would be far more accurate to say that project 2025 writers were copying trump than the other way around

[Barquentine]

19 hours ago, Nationalist said:

cult pansies.

Finally, a new insult. See, you can evolve. There is some hope for rightwingers>

[Nationalist]

14 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

Finally, a new insult. See, you can evolve. There is some hope for rightwingers>

I've already evolved. Not so many years ago, I was a Liberal. But Liberalism morphed to focus less on national matters, and more on Globalist matters. The result...Detroit went bankrupt, manufacturing began disappearing, jobs were sent off-shore. The great climate scare was imposed to justify further change and imposed controls.

I evolved to a Nationalist. My nation first. I vehemently oppose Globalist mechanations. I want our borders closed, manufacturing revived, regulations dropped, and I never have believed the whole climate fear-porn.

[Radiorum]

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

He had nothing to do with the creation of project 2025.

I never said he did the work. Of course, he didn't do the work. But a simple look at the Project 2025 Tracker website will show you how closely he is implementing it.

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

He has done some things which appear to be in 2025, but they're just conservative ideas that literally any conservative would tend to follow

No, they are specific objectives that have been reached.

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So pretending it's a con is of course simply just childishness.

The con was insisting he had nothing to do with Project 2025 to get elected and then closely implementing the 2025 objectives once in.

 

If you fail to realize how closely the Heritage Foundation (the creators of Project 2025) is working with and influencing the Trump Administration, you are woefully uninformed. The Heritage Foundation even presumes to speak for Trump.

When Republicans in the Indiana Senate torpedoed a bill designed to eliminate the state’s two remaining Democratic districts in Indiana’s nine-seat map, it was the Heritage Foundation that issued a cryptic warning:

“President Trump has made it clear to Indiana leaders: if the Indiana Senate fails to pass the map, all federal funding will be stripped from the state,” Heritage’s X account posted. “Roads will not be paved. Guard bases will close. Major projects will stop. These are the stakes and every NO vote will be to blame.”

While the president had threatened recalcitrant Republicans with primary challenges, imperiling federal funding was not something the White House had publicly said was on the table. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/indiana-lt-gov-confirms-trump-051823610.html

[Radiorum]

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Trump campaigned on the idea that he would go after the woke and get rid of environmental policies that he felt were harmful to the economy. He also said he was going to slash inefficient departments.

Literally everything you've mentioned falls under one of those three and I'm sorry but he did campaign on it

That just tells me he knew of the contents of Project 2025 while insisting he knew nothing about it.

Trump will do anything in order to win. Whatever policy he adopts, it is not from a position of principle, but only as a means to an end. This is kind of a characteristic of the Republican party, who are known for their hypocrisy. So many of the current Trump sycophants once harshly criticized him.

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It would be far more accurate to say that project 2025 writers were copying trump than the other way around

This is absurd. 

[User]

42 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I never said he did the work. Of course, he didn't do the work. But a simple look at the Project 2025 Tracker website will show you how closely he is implementing it.

Implementing it… how?

This has already been explained to you. Project 2025 is like 900 pages of extensive policy positions across the board. The fact that some small amount of it is being implemented isn’t proof Trump did know about it and lied or that he is following it now. 

[User]

47 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

The con was insisting he had nothing to do with Project 2025 to get elected and then closely implementing the 2025 objectives once in.

He is not “closely” implementing the objectives.

[Radiorum]

12 minutes ago, User said:

He is not “closely” implementing the objectives.

Project 2025 is the blueprint for transforming executive power. it was written for the next Republican president, whoever that might have been. As it turned out, it fed right into Trump's ego - this grand plan to amass power in the president. Of course he is closely following it. He is using Project 2025 to re-shape the US.

Look, before the election, Trump said, "I have no idea who is behind Project 2025." But, 3 of the 4 main authors of it served in his first Administration.

Some say that Russell Vought - who played a major role in the creation of Project 2025 and is now the director of the Office of Management and Budget - is the real power beyond all policy - leaving Trump to play his part, while he puts his most important attention on his true aims - amassing his personal fortune.

 

[User]

3 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Of course he is closely following it. He is using Project 2025 to re-shape the US.

Another baseless assertion not based on facts. 

3 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Look, before the election, Trump said, "I have no idea who is behind Project 2025." But, 3 of the 4 main authors of it served in his first Administration.

OK, and? 
You are presuming Trump stayed in connection with former administration people and knew what they were all up to.

7 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Some say

Some say? ROFL 

[WestCanMan]

19 hours ago, Radiorum said:

You're describing yourself. I'll ask you one more time.

First you tried to apply the word cultist incorrectly, now you're aiming it in the wrong direction. Yer ofer two, Bub.

Quote

How does it help the country if oversight with cryptocurrency is weakened and the office tasked with consumer protection is eliminated?

I'm just gonna go with: "If you don't like it, then it's good, by definition".

Quote

With this, I have to believe that you just didn't understand what I posted. I have given you a solid argument, but I am not obliged to give you an understanding. Comprehension is your responsibility. 

Oh, I understood what you were trying to say, you just didn't say it, and the reason why is clearly over your head. 

Quote

I urge you to broaden your horizons to find out what is really going on. 

No, you urge me to watch the Cultist News Network and just regurgitate everything I see there, like you do. 

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, Radiorum said:

I never said he did the work. Of course, he didn't do the work. But a simple look at the Project 2025 Tracker website will show you how closely he is implementing it.

No, again this is the kind of nonsense we always see. They take elements of project 2025 and then they twist how it sort of worded and presented and then take something trump has done and try and shoehorn it into that definition and say look, he's doing 2025.

And that is nonsense. Again tell me something he's doing that he never campaigned on. There's nothing.

So any comparison between him and project 2025 is meaningless. He said this is what I'm going to do, he is doing what he said he's going to do, he has a mandate for that. 

8 hours ago, Radiorum said:

No, they are specific objectives that have been reached.

I don't think so. I think there were some vague generalities in project 2025 that you are matching up with things that trump promised to do and is now doing.

8 hours ago, Radiorum said:

The con was insisting he had nothing to do with Project 2025

He had nothing to do with project 2025. And everything he's doing now is well within what he promised he would do.

There is no con. What you are stating is false. It is a dishonesty.

For you to make the claim that he's following project 2025 that hit that during the election you would have to demonstrate a number of things which fall in contrast or in conflict with promises he made during the election but which are clearly contained in project 2025. And that's not something you can do